Srecko Sostar

A time of rebellion indeed and it's easy to see that the GB are rebelling against God and Christ. 
Idolatry in the extreme. The GB worship money, power and position, and even buildings. 
One building the GB and others at the top of the JW Org worship is this one.
Scroll down on that link and see the idol worship and money wasted. 
I wonder how much of congregants donations were wasted on the restoration of this monstrosity.
https://jerseydigs.com/look-inside-the-historic-stanley-theater-journal-square-jersey-city/
 

But they won't give money willingly to Victims of Child Sexual Abuse, that were abused in JW Org. Much of the abuse was carried out by Elders. And the GB continue to keep the secret data base of over 20 years, whilst wasting money on the worship of buildings. 
Please show me how this is serving God properly ?  

@the Sower of Seed  " They have God's view of war, of murder, of abortion, of headship, of voting, of trusting in men, of the use of blood, of immorality,etc.... "
The GB have no idea. 
1. The GB say that God and Christ trust them, so then the GB tell people to trust them.  Trusting the GB is 'trusting in men', when the bible says 'Put not your trust in earthling man'
2. How many more of you JWs will pretend that the GB and its Org have God's view of immorality ?
Look around this Earth. See the hurt and pain the JW Org has caused people through Child Sexual Abuse. Then look at all the court cases where your GB are using dishonest lawyers to tell lies in courts, just to save your GB money. JW Org has big businesses in the world earning millions of pounds / $, but they do not want  to pay compensation to Victims of CSA. The GB have even made rules of shunning to deliberately push people away from their families and friends. The misuse of scripture is horrid. 
The only 'seed' you are sowing is one of lies.  
I'll repeat this scripture :- Matthew 5 
38 “You heard that it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’a 39  However, I say to you: Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him.b 40  And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment;c 41  and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. 42  Give to the one asking you, and do not turn away from one who wants to borrow from you."
Direct instruction from Jesus to the Anointed. To give and not hold back.  Why are your GB doing exactly  the opposite to the instructions of Jesus Christ ? 

Today's "apostles" were not trained by Jesus. Not in literal way and not in some other way. JW leaders claiming how they not receiving "inspirational training" from Jesus. Reading Bible and thinking/mediate about text and prayers are only "training" they have. Imagine this: If real apostles in 1st century failed in many things after/despite training by Jesus, how much more errors can be expected from people who today claiming how they are (only) "guided by holy spirit"? 
Saul of Tarsus was highly educated person. Today GB tells (teach) JW members how God and Jesus not need "higher education". Can we assume how Saul was well trained and excellent because of THIS background? And how Jesus had easier task to learned him and not need 3,5 years, because he got more effective mind as highly educated person? Do you suggest how 11 apostles had less desire to serve and learn?
It is worrying to hear. In fact, enormously worrying!

Today's "apostles" were not trained by Jesus. Not in literal way and not in some other way. JW leaders claiming how they not receiving "inspirational training" from Jesus. Reading Bible and thinking/mediate about text and prayers are only "training" they have. Imagine this: If real apostles in 1st century failed in many things after/despite training by Jesus, how much more errors can be expected from people who today claiming how they are (only) "guided by holy spirit"? 
Saul of Tarsus was highly educated person. Today GB tells (teach) JW members how God and Jesus not need "higher education". Can we assume how Saul was well trained and excellent because of THIS background? And how Jesus had easier task to learned him and not need 3,5 years, because he got more effective mind as highly educated person? Do you suggest how 11 apostles had less desire to serve and learn?
It is worrying to hear. In fact, enormously worrying!

In individual perspective, this life we have, in this moment, is all we have. 
In case of people who believe in continuation of life in the moment of death, prospect is also life but under several outcomes, that is: paradise, hell and purgatory.
In case of people who believe in future resurrection, as in case of JW members, outcomes have also few variations: to survive, or, and, to be resurrected and if you be enough good to continue with life until you don't do something what deserve death punishment. Next is, not to be resurrected and in such case, this life today is definitely all you have.  
 
  
Perhaps WT Lawyers forget about congregational rule or they never heard about it: "leave it to God" :)) 

I am reminded of a Great Courses CD lecture from someone who teaches theology at Chapel Hill. He poses the question: ‘why would various Christian martyrs appear so eager to get out of this world when they seemingly had so much to offer it?’ ‘He’s forgotten everything,’ I said to myself, if he ever knew it. And he teaches it. At the university. Where the clergy goes to get their degrees that count so highly with you.

This is a good attitude, and is probably expected for one who remains a Witness. But it's also very easy to start thinking that a person who asks for money damages is somehow tainted, or we think they must not believe that this system will be over in a few decades at most.
But we must be ready to square this with the fact that the Watchtower has sued for money damages on a few occasions, and sometimes not just to the guilty parties, but a scattershot suit that becomes a fishing expedition among many different companies to try to put the true story together to see who is responsible. The following was the first of many reports that came up on a Google search of "Watchtower sues over Warwick site "
Battle over contamination at Watchtower site in Warwick ...
www.recordonline.com>article>NEWS   Dec 14, 2015 - A slew of companies sued by Watchtower Bible and Tract Society say they don’t bear responsibility for contaminating the Warwick site where the religious group is building its massive world headquarters, and will therefore not pay for it.Watchtower, better known as Jehovah’s ...

@Anna  I was hoping the investigation was going to look at each 'religion' separately, but by my understanding it looks as if it is just a blanket / overview of all those 'religions' pushed in together. 
It mentions having more than one person in the witness box at a time and looks like it will just gloss over things. 
For instance it is about Jews, Islam / Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses and many more....   How is it possible to mix all those people into one investigation ?  
Some of those 'religions' mutilate (FGM) girls private parts, some marry off very young girls to very old men, but they say it IS part of their 'religion' or 'custom'.  They are not denying it. 
Whereas, Jehovah's Witnesses say “Jehovah's Witnesses abhor child abuse in all its forms and do not shield wrongdoers from the ... "
So here we see a totally opposite attitude. A denial rather than admittance........ It is known, whether you wish to believe it or not, that the JW Org hide paedophiles and have hidden CSA in it. (Otherwise there would not be court cases and investigations Earthwide ).  It is known that the JW HQ here in UK did not want to hand over information to the Charity Commission. So it seems to make it obvious that the JW Org does not want to cooperate with any investigation... (Hence their choice in whose statement they are using, see lower down)
As I read it also, the investigation WILL NOT look at past 'happenings and actions'. They only want to know what is  happening now. So how will the investigation have any information on the procedures that have been used in the past ?  I think it is always good to have a bit of the history to examine whether an organisation / religion has a past record of 'doing things properly'. It might help to establish whether that org / religion can be relied upon to 'get it right' in the future. 
Whose statement they are using. The CCJW (JW Org) are using a statement by Mr Paul Gillies who WAS (past tense) a member of the Britain Branch Committee. That man is now safely tucked away in American HQ it seems, as Director of Public Information at 'World HQ'. So, he will not be available for personal face to face questioning. How convenient.  We know that the GB have given permission to people in 'authority within the Org' (including Elders) to TELL LIES.  We know the GB call it Spiritual Warfare.  So, I am quite sure in my own mind that Mr Paul Gillies' statement could easily be full of lies and have GB approval. And as I say he cannot be cross examined / questioned. 
( Please note at this point : I am NOT a fan of Lloyd Evans, and I don't think he will be helpful to the investigation at all. )
All in all it looks to me like a very weak pretence of 'investigating' Child Sexual Abuse.  It looks too frightened to 'ruffle feathers' in NON White / NON British religions such as Jews and Muslims. It is obvious that those Non White / Non British religions / organisations would scream racism or some such excuses, or use the idea of ' freedom of religion' to continue doing harm to children. 
BUT Jehovah's Witnesses are, whether one likes it or not, basically a White Mans religion. ( We needn't go into the past about depicting Jesus as white etc, but point proven. )  By that I mean that JW Org, can't or won't scream racism as an excuse for anything.  I also doubt that here in the UK JWs would cry 'religious discrimination' either. And the way this investigation is being carried out they could not I suppose, because they are just being lumped in the pot with all the rest. 
So what do we have ? We have JW Org lumped in with all the rest, which impairs an investigation into CSA in the JW Org itself. We have, not being able to discuss / show previous processes / procedures of particular cases from the past, which would have been good evidence of wrongful use of scripture and wrongful action by men. We have a statement from a man who no longer resides in the UK (and hasn't done for 18 months at least ) and cannot be cross examined on his statement. We have a GB that gives their permission to tell lies to protect JW Org. 
So a 'false' investigation, a 'fake', a pretence. It will cost a fortune, it will probably upset many in 'those other' 'religions', it will not serve a good purpose to clean up the Org, it will not bring any justice to Victims of CSA, AND, most importantly, it will not bring any praise to Almighty God. 
It would be wonderful if I am wrong and I'd be happy to admit it if I am. And if it could bring praise to God in any way, that would be the best ever result.  Have a good day. 

It is possible to take this stand. But that has consequences too. Good? Or bad? If rain coming through roof of the house, will leaving thing to something or someone in the future bring to better or worst condition.
God leave earthly things to be earthly human job. With good and bad outcomes. Bible said something like;    When the sentence for a crime is not quickly carried out, people’s hearts are filled with schemes to do wrong.
This mantra,  platitudes - "live it to god", is not proper answer for many things we faced. For some things in life more time is needed, but not in a sense that JW people using this internal proverb with hope how something will be resolved without doing nothing or without interest and efforts for something. Victim need help in a way and quality and quantity that he/she as individual can manage and receive, in time and with time set by these specific individual.   

It is possible to take this stand. But that has consequences too. Good? Or bad? If rain coming through roof of the house, will leaving thing to something or someone in the future bring to better or worst condition.
God leave earthly things to be earthly human job. With good and bad outcomes. Bible said something like;    When the sentence for a crime is not quickly carried out, people’s hearts are filled with schemes to do wrong.
This mantra,  platitudes - "live it to god", is not proper answer for many things we faced. For some things in life more time is needed, but not in a sense that JW people using this internal proverb with hope how something will be resolved without doing nothing or without interest and efforts for something. Victim need help in a way and quality and quantity that he/she as individual can manage and receive, in time and with time set by these specific individual.   

The old hen will rightly get mad at me for this one, but:
what in the world could be the problem with Buffalo NY? It has the largest summer garden show in the country. Call that a problem?
https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2010/08/redeeming-americas-armpit.html

The sin David committed didn’t affect all of Israel. He was remorseful and we have the record of his heartfelt repentance and mourning before God.   The sin of spiritual adultery by Israel’s leaders, affected all of God’s people, since it was sourced in teachings and idolatry promoted by the leaders themselves.   Because of that, God allowed suffering to come upon them.  The Pharisees in Jesus’ day were adulterers.  Jesus told his listeners to turn to truth, not to tolerate their behavior, or their teachings…not to share in their sins. Those that didn’t listen, lost their lives!
Never does God expect us to sit back and absorb all the evil coming from those who speak it. That is hypocrisy.  The “world” that Jesus preached to, was the Jewish system of things.  In his prayer to God, he said of his disciples,
“I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.  John 17:6
"Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever." 1 John 2:15-17
How can we be found acceptable before God if we even remotely entertain the misconduct of leaders ruling over us, who are not in the least repentant for their sins?  To be “no part of the world” in that day, meant rejecting Israel’s sins.  In the world of the organization, it means the same thing, where spiritual "Israel", God's people, resides. 
Then I heard another voice from heaven say:
“‘Come out of her, my people,’
    so that you will not share in her sins,
    so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
5 for her sins are piled up to heaven,
    and God has remembered her crimes.
6 Give back to her as she has given;
    pay her back double for what she has done.
    Pour her a double portion from her own cup.
7 Give her as much torment and grief
    as the glory and luxury she gave herself.
In her heart she boasts,
    ‘I sit enthroned as queen.
I am not a widow;
    I will never mourn.’
8 Therefore in one day her plagues will overtake her:
    death, mourning and famine.”  Rev 18:4-8
 

Some religious people love their clergy. Some not so much.
Some non-religious people have same feelings.
JW people not loving any clergy but only own clergy.
Problem will be solved if WT publication start to teaching own members about "connotations".... wrong one and positive one. :)))

In Croatia, Bethel workers have also pension and health insurance benefits. Obviously also paid from contributions. 

Good! more light....new light, old light,  ANY light needs to be shone on this behavior and bring it out into the open. The practice of hiding abusers is wrong, and if any group thinks that they will not answer to God for it, good luck. People need to be informed about organizations that do this.

:)))) I am slow in writing and more slower in English writing. My "weapon" and "tactic" is to be short and concise how much is possible. :)))
Anna, Arauna, TTH bombing me with responds. And i am alone, sole  :))) 
Your comment helps to redirect their thinking. Now you will be "target". :))

When in preaching service people ask you: "Do you have clergy"? You immediately respond with, "We DON'T have clergy, we have Elders. 
@TrueTomHarley  Everybody knows it. It’s nothing more than common sense. Regardless of what elders are called, they come closest to fitting the role lawmakers have in mind for ‘clergy.’
If every JW knows this why they in preaching service respond with: "NO, we have Elders"????

Elders are supposed to be equal ?  And there is no hierarchy  ?   
Um some man on here 'sower of the seed ' or something,  seems to think different. When he talks about the GB working their way up 'through the ranks'. 
Of course there are ranks and hierarchy. Ministerial Servant, Elder, Circuit Overseer, et al. Right up to the GB and their lawyers. 
And who is it does the judging in the congregations ?  The Elders judge, mark, report on people. If a member of the congregation did that it would be seen as 'causing a division in the congregation' or trouble making, or gossip. But the Elders are given that authority to judge, mark, report, and be involved in disfellowshipping people by giving evidence to the C.O. I think that shows that Elders have rank / position. 
If all were equal they would not use the term 'brother / sister', because they would be on first name terms within the congregation. I have a brother and a sister by blood relation, and i use their first names. Why not in a congregation. I really can't imagine the Apostles using last names. We have, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, ............. No last names there. 
Also, Elders write their own talks to give from the platform. True they may have a basic outline from the GB but the Elder has quite a free reign to write his talk. Now that Public Talk is given as said to the Public, so that Elder has a responsibility to give correct information in such a talk. So is that not very similar to church clergy ? 
@Anna, i think, mentioned the word church. The church is NOT the building, it is the congregation, specifically the Anointed, as it would have been in the Greek Scriptures. 
@Srecko Sostar mentioned Inside JW circle word "clergy" has bad connotation. Because, as word "Christendom" too, it is always about, those other people, those other churches, those other religions.
The GB down to the Elders have always tried to frighten congregants with some false idea  about everyone 'outside' the JW Org being wicked. As Srecko mentions 'clergy' 'Christendom' and others have been 'torn apart' 'dissected' and given bad reports on. 
So now the table has turned and it is the GB and the JW Org that are being dissected and inspected, and investigated, and given bad reports on. It would seem they are receiving back what they threw at others. 

Thanks. I deserved it. It's true that there is almost no comparison between elders and the payment factor with the clergy. I'm sure it's the main reason that this particular distinction is made so clearly in the article. We happen to have a "paid" elder in our own Kingdom Hall, but it's rare, and was supposed to be transitional, as this housing was designated for the circuit overseer who stays in a different hall.
But I can't see any reason to argue such a distinction for the COs and many Bethelites and Governing Body members who definitely are paid with housing and meals, along with a small cash allowance for other services and needs. And these payments are produced out of the collections of money that HQ receives from our contributions. What would likely happen if everyone stopped contributing food, housing, cash, monetary estates, liquid assets? The CO's, Bethelites, and Governing Body would no longer have housing and food, and because they are no longer being paid this way, most would no longer be able to perform the duties they now perform.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this in the least. Paul was a full-time minister who said that the 'bull should not be muzzled when threshing out the grain.' He had a right to expect payment for his ministry if he wished, just as others were doing.

Yes, and if they do have a masters degree, it's most likely not a degree in theology

Aspects of meaning or semantics. 
JW people, or better to say, JW leaders, with time, from past, gave specific meaning to word "clergy". And thus created new culture inside own church. Inside JW circle word "clergy" has bad connotation. Because, as word "Christendom" too, it is always about, those other people, those other churches, those other religions.
Merriam Webster explain word clergy:  a group ordained to perform pastoral or sacerdotal functions in a Christian church

:)))) I am slow in writing and more slower in English writing. My "weapon" and "tactic" is to be short and concise how much is possible. :)))
Anna, Arauna, TTH bombing me with responds. And i am alone, sole  :))) 
Your comment helps to redirect their thinking. Now you will be "target". :))

I saw that she was about to and clapped a hand over her mouth.
They just get a kick out of messing with you.

:)))) I am slow in writing and more slower in English writing. My "weapon" and "tactic" is to be short and concise how much is possible. :)))
Anna, Arauna, TTH bombing me with responds. And i am alone, sole  :))) 
Your comment helps to redirect their thinking. Now you will be "target". :))

True, but I've watched one on TV. (Not really) My wife was born and raised Catholic, and had just tried Seventh Day Adventist, Church of God and Jehovah's Witnesses in the 5 years between leaving the Catholic church and getting baptized. My relatives on my father's side are Bible Students and Witnesses for as far back as this was possible, but they also married into families that had been Methodists, Lutheran, etc. I've seen plenty of churchiness on documentaries of various churches.
Of course you can compare them. You just have to watch for similarities to compare rather than letting the differences get in the way. You are right that you need to strip away the "pomp and ceremony" but it is pretty easy to match up the altar boys with the microphone carriers, deacons with the more mature ministerial servants, the priests and pastors with the elders, the bishops with the COBE, cardinals with the circuit overseers, the Pope and college of cardinals with the Governing Body, etc. There are dozens of other similarities, along with serious and important differences.
 
Even the article that Anna offered, where one of the important distinctions is that clergy are paid falls away when we think about how our circuit overseers (and formerly district overseers) have always been paid, and how the Governing Body and their helpers and other support services are paid from the collection of our contributions. We actually have a former Bethel elder who was "retired" from Bethel to serve in our congregation, and he is "paid" by being allowed to live in a room with his wife that is part of the KH, like a rectory.
I was speaking of what people generally believe about the range of possibilities that "clergy" can mean -- not focusing on the very things that we have used to distinguish ourselves from the worst examples of clergy. The connotation of "clergy" to a Witness is admittedly skewed by our focus on the differences. But the actual differences in the meaning of the word are not so problematic. Look at the definition of clergy that shows up on a Google search:
cler·gy /ˈklərjē/ noun: clergy; plural noun: clergies the body of all people ordained for religious duties, especially in the Christian Church. "all marriages were to be solemnized by the clergy" Whoops! After coming back to my computer and responding to Arauna, I just notice that I said the same thing as Srecko. Srecko managed to make the same point in 1/10th the number of words.