Srecko Sostar

Wait a moment. Jesus gave specific name for holy spirit - Helper, with specific Task.  But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.  -John 14, NWT
Is this "coincidence or for purpose" that GB have human Helper/s and not spiritual Helper??
Is this "coincidence or for purpose" that GB used this specific Bible wording, and gave this "title" to this people who are not "anointed" ??
Is this what Jesus meant, how Father will give human helpers who working in various Committees of WT Corporation??
:)))
9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. - Rev 7
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And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, - Rev 14
I am pretty stupid sometimes, but after reading Revelation i have to notice how BOTH GROUP are BEFORE THRONE.

This remind me on something. Each person who are able to recognize, to see holy spirit manifestation in other person (words and deeds) also need to have that same spirit. Or opposite spirit perhaps :))
Illustration: If i speak German i can recognize and understand all people who speaking German. If i don't speak German i can make guess how some language is German but will not be able to understand what German people saying. 
It is possible to make conclusion that GB is under influence of particular spirit, if you are under same spirit influence, too. 
But if you are under influence of other spirit you will see difference, too. 
 

I had been in Thun, Switzerland Betel too. I think that one very old couple was members at that time. Wife served with some simple task, almost meaningless, packing some postcards for visitors. Her husband get very ill, stroke or something and been free from work, but wife must contribute to be able to stay. They invite us for a tea. 
Austria Betel showed "normal german" hospitality. And they had part of basement full with various beer packages for drink to buy....when you emptying few welcome beer bottles in room refrigerator. :)))  I guess Bethel workers have every day routine and many of them have no extra time (will, emotions, strength, or "love" if you want) to welcome unknown strangers. That depends on many individual factors, i guess, but generally Bethel is working camp.
Rome Bethel was prepared for welcoming all delegates who were on international convention tour in 2004 (?) Convention was in Milano, Monza racing stadium. And Croatian BUS delegates sleeping in homes of brothers in various congregations around. We had been at one young couple home. Wife of brother was very serious and strict and not showed warmth (despite she was Italian, strange!! :))) but all others in congregation was very happy and we had good time with them.
You had very interesting and educational experience, for sure. Thanks for sharing :))   
 

Nice and lively here today 😀
 
Now don't lie JTR, there was definitely a point
 
I am sorry. I should have prefaced it with "no need to read" . I really just posted it to illustrate that we don't do this anymore and that we have progressed as with the "WT 66 Question from readers" @b4ucuhear posted, about changes in truth where it says "at times there may be changes in viewpoint. Our basic belief may be sound Scriptural truth, but there may be some details that we did not fully understand in the past. In time, with the aid of Jehovah’s spirit, we get those matters cleared up". It is a little ironic though that after this WT was printed, the next WT- 68, the article I posted, there was the attempt at arriving at a specific date, so then THAT had to be cleared up after 1975. But now, not only are things cleared up, but they are also simplified, and as Br. Splane said in his 2014 talk, we no longer ascribe types and antitypes to everything and we try hard "not to go beyond the things that are written".
I can understand why the early Bible students felt the need to unravel every "mystery" in the Bible. After all, why are they there? All these numbers and prophesies are there for a reason. But as the same 66 WT says: "...we do not know all there is to know. In fact, even when the post-Armageddon system of things is ushered in we will not know everything. Throughout all eternity there will always be more to learn". 
So we are slowly learning. Perhaps this will also apply to the 1914 doctrine one day....

When I traveled in Europe for a string of International Conventions with a member of the GB, I stayed in the branches in France, Spain, Italy, Greece, Switzerland, Austria, and Germany. It was not something these branches normally did for a low-level traveling Bethelite like me, because they did not all keep extra housing for such purposes, but had to reuse rooms of brothers who were either on vacation themselves, or who had been placed for a few days to stay with local brothers.
The only reason it was done was because of who I was traveling with. But our itineraries got out of sync when I had to stay nearly an extra week in Greece for a project. This meant that I was in Austria and Switzerland taking up a room without a good reason, and I was looked at suspiciously and felt very unwelcome. They especially frowned on my interest in looking at their old Bibles that had been donated to the Swiss branch and watched me in their Bethel library. There was so much natural beauty all around, but these were two branches in which I felt almost nothing but coldness, as if I were an unwanted intruder. When I met up with the GB member again, everything was loving and back to normal.
(I think Switzerland had to give up their old Bibles and a page of their Gutenberg Bible over to Warwick by now. I don't recall if Austria had anything as valuable.)

Rev 7:17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the [d]water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.”
 
Nope
Matt 18: 20 For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”
 
Why the insistence on no beards? Not reporting CSA? The constant hounding for money? Judicial committees for reading unapproved material? Not getting enough hours? Not showing up to EVERY meeting? Suits and ties? No celebration of birthdays? Making sure you don't send your kids to college? The hospital liaison group, I mean if this isn't a watchdog I don't know what is! Constantly they are there to make sure you don't take blood. If it is free will, why are they there? 

It seems that i made myself to be only naive here .... i read until last dot :))))) 
Anna, you did it on purpose, didn't you? :)))))  to catch some bugs and flies in the net

I am glad YOU get the point, because I did not know there was a point to be gotten.

I knew that already, when I could feel the pain in my frame, and axles, and my skin was yellow.

...in my dream, the buses were out racing on the weekend, or something.
When I woke up I thought "Where did all of THAT come from?"

I was thinking that this was part of the normal run of the buses, and knowing you can't tell if a bus was speeding by checking the mileage.
So it reminded me of the joke about the two fishermen, who normally had bad luck, but rented a boat so that they finally found a place way out on the water where the fish were biting exceptionally well. When fishing was done for the day, the first fisherman says to the second, 'Make sure you keep track of where this place is so we can get here again tomorrow.' The second fisherman say, 'I already did. I put a big X on the side of the boat right here.' The first fisherman says: 'But how do you know we'll get the same boat tomorrow?'

Too true, TTH.
Saturday night I had a full color vision in a dream while I was sleeping, and woke up and told it to my wife, Susan.
In this dream I was in a race with three large bright yellow school buses, racing up a hill to a Tee intersection, in single file, along a wooded country road, and I was the third school bus in line, and being old it was a big struggle to keep up, as the other two were newer school buses with newer engines.
I was the actual bus ... not a driver IN the bus, and the other buses were the same.
As I tried to pass I was hitting logs, and potholes, and I could feel it in my frame and in my axles, and realized the probability of me getting to the Tee intersection first was slim.
... and  then, the lead school bus said to the second school bus, which I overheard above the roar of the engines and the clashing of gears "You know, when we get back, they are going to check the mileage, and they will know we have been racing ...."
I have been trying to put that into some context, but am at a loss.
 

Now I understand why many executives disallow any reports to them longer than one page.
They KNOW how easy it is to be hypnotized by many words, which for some, is a finely tuned art form.

This remind me on something. Each person who are able to recognize, to see holy spirit manifestation in other person (words and deeds) also need to have that same spirit. Or opposite spirit perhaps :))
Illustration: If i speak German i can recognize and understand all people who speaking German. If i don't speak German i can make guess how some language is German but will not be able to understand what German people saying. 
It is possible to make conclusion that GB is under influence of particular spirit, if you are under same spirit influence, too. 
But if you are under influence of other spirit you will see difference, too. 
 

It seems that i made myself to be only naive here .... i read until last dot :))))) 
Anna, you did it on purpose, didn't you? :)))))  to catch some bugs and flies in the net

Lol. Same thoughts here. That is why I posted it, genuinely wondering if anyone really read it when it was first published. But then people did read a lot more 50 years ago...... but then they also might have been clueless and just, like I said, zeroed in on the number 1975, which was a mere 7 years away at the time.....
If it's any consolation, I only read to about paragraph 10 😃

Anna: ....
I tried to read all that stuff from the 1968 Watchtower you posted.  I REALLY did.
But I concluded that the whole thing could probably be condensed to two short paragraphs, and to read it in it's entirety would probably be fatal to me, from the handful of caffeine tablets I would need to finish it.
...continuing with TTH's comments about John F. Kennedy being the impetus to get mankind to the Moon ..... the thought just occurred to me that with all his foibles, weaknesses, and missteps, ( Bay of Pigs .. what's THAT?), and setting the stage for the Vietnam War, etc., he was sorta like the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, with all their foibles and general cluelessness.
What he did RIGHT ... makes up for everything else, with change left over.
Same thing.

Correct me if i am wrong, but as to my knowledge and experience with Betel, i understand that you need to have specific purpose to be accomodate in Betel room as simple, ordinary JW. And that is not because of your personal matters you have to do outside of theocratic activity. For example, if you travel from Osijek to Zagreb for some private stuff (hospital, looking for new job,....etc) you can't count that Betel in Zagreb will give you room to stay one or more nights for sleeping. 
For example: When i was invited with other bro/sis, who had roles in bible drama for convention, for recording in the studio (and that was as i can recall my last visit before they closed Austria branch) only those involved in drama was Bethel's guests . Exceptions was made only for husbands or wives of individual actor. So, if you were single you can't expect that your friend will be allowed to be accomodate in Betel room with you.
In time when Zagreb Bethel was made preparation for first opening i volunteered some 3 months in gardening. They officially gave me a room, but only in theory. I went back to my home for sleeping after working hours.

My opening scriptures were Rev 5:9,10.  If you will look again at the WT’s Greek Interlinear, it states that the kings/priests will reign ON the earth.  Do you want to change that truth, Arauna?  If you could only see that a “new creation” is both heavenly and human.  They will serve God in heaven and as the early priests were commissioned to do – teach and serve the people under the direction of their High Priest, Jesus Christ..  Mal 2:7; Rev 1:5,6; 7:15  Can God’s priesthood teach the people if they remain in a spiritual state that the rest of God’s children do not have access to? 
Can they say these words and be heard if they are out of contact with God’s future children?...
“And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And the one who hears, let him say, “Come!” And the one who is thirsty, let him come. The one who wants, let him take the water of life freely.”  Rev 22:17
Can “New Jerusalem” prepared as a bride, come down from heaven if it is to remain in heaven?  Rev 22:2
Remember, the “144,000” are the Temple, the Holy City.  They bring God’s Spirit/direction/guidance to His children. 
 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying,
“Behold, the dwelling of God is with humanity,
and he will take up residence with them,
and they will be his people
and God himself will be with them.  Rev 21:3
The dwelling of God is the Temple/House of God – 1 Cor 3:16,17; 1 Cor 6:19; Eph 2:20-22
So, his ability to come back to earth has now passed.  Is this what you are saying?  Where are the scriptures that support this?  I have provided scripture that show Jesus returning to the earth.
And after he had said these things, while they were watching, he was taken up, and a cloud received him from their sight. 10 And as they were staring into the sky while he was departing, behold, two men in white clothing stood by them 11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand there lookin] into the sky? This Jesus who was taken up from you into heaven like this will come back in the same way you saw him departing into heaven!” Acts 1:9-11
And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “And let all the angels of God worship him.”  Heb 1:6
 I am pretty amazed that Gen 28:12-17 and John 1:51 do not help you see that Jesus will be on the earth in the Kingdom.  I hope you actually read them.  A symbolic stairway in Jacob's vision is set up between heaven and earth.  The descendants of Jacob in Genesis, are “Israel”.  His descendants, the “144,000” inherit the earth.  Jesus referred to the stairway again in John, with his “angel”/messengers “ascending and descending” upon the Son of Man.  
An anointed, refined and found faithful can be sealed while on the earth.  Yet even so, their obedience only to Christ must continue until he returns.  1 Cor 1:21,22; Eph 1:13; 4:30
Can you see you are creating a doctrine with no sound basis?  How do you know this?  You speak of unity among all in the organization, yet they are all individuals, both men and women.  You have even in error, designated that the organization's members are the Body of Christ.  But, when it comes the the true anointed Body of Christ you now say there will be no men or women, but clones as your GB portray them, once God's Kingdom arrives.  You are applying two sets of standards, which is hypocrisy.   
Yes they do...in heaven.  
You can see the slaves however you like, but I detect you looking through the lens of the GB who are telling all JWs lies about the anointed ones.  I see what scripture points out clearly, that the elders have usurped the role of God’s priesthood. Matt 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3; 13:6  Revelation’s “Jezebel” feeds God’s servants/slaves lies, and expects gratitude given to an organization, an idol.  Your very words speak their lies. The ancient Jezebel killed the prophets of God (1 Kings 18:13);  today’s “Jezebel” spiritually “kills” any anointed as well as their companions who see truth and reveal “her” lies.  Rev 13:11,14-17
But I have against you that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, the one who calls herself a prophetess,(Rev 13:11) and teaches and deceives my slaves to commit sexual immorality (spiritual harlotry) and to eat food sacrificed to idols.  Rev 2:20
For false messiahs and false prophets will appear, and will produce great signs and wonders in order to deceive, if possible, even the elect
 
 

Says the exceedingly worldly guy...... 
So @Arauna explain how I'm an 'exceedingly worldly guy.'  For if you knew me at all you would know how wrong that statement is. 
Actually I thought it was you that had travelled the world and done everything. Whereas I have been accused, on here, of just sitting at this computer continuously. 
Just a little note, I didn't vote in the general election, as I'm no part of this world, an don't put my trust in 'earthling man'. We also do not celebrate the upcoming pagan festival, not do we celebrate birthdays. Nor do I go to a 'pub' as I don't drink alcohol, and I don't smoke and don't 'do drugs'.  So I'm not exactly what I would call worldly. 
Oh yes and the JW Org are involved in the PROPERTY MARKET, selling multiple properties. Not just one house. 
Quote  @TrueTomHarley 
From the Revelation Climax book, published in 1988:
“It is not claimed that the explanations in this publication are infallible. Like Joseph of old, we say: “Do not interpretations belong to God?” (Genesis 40:8)”
If I remember correctly that was written on a picture page and would easily have been overlooked as it was not part of a paragraph that would have been read in the study. 
It was of course a 'cop out' due to the fact that they had been so wrong on so many other occasions. 
I believe this book was studied three times so as to indoctrinate congregants, even though they were not sure it was true.  If it wasn't so serious it would be funny, BUT it was playing with people's lives. 

Nothing is beyond your extreme criticism lol.  Go buy yourself a little patch in London or in any other capital city like New York and see what it costs you.  
If they needed a space for someone or a worker, or even for guests or whatever, they would have bought it because it was needed at the time and is now no longer needed.
 
Says the exceedingly worldly guy...... 
If they sell the property to help brothers they are wicked and if they buy it to help brothers they are wicked....... do you sound reasonable to yourselves?   Thanks to Jehovah you are not the final judges because you will put all JWs in Auschwitz......just for being JWs..... ah, you may still help the world to do that in future ..... who knows? 

One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man’s existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation!
Here authors said how some "fulfilled Bible prophecy" showed something. This would mean how WT Society knew at that time what was already fulfilled or it will be. Is this claim really correct? Because they made interpretations about human events and projected their expectations, explained them as Bible prophecies. This was common practice.
Another thing, let me remind please what was explanation of "generation" in 1968?
 But they knew "something" about 70., what was more important for them :)) .... and it seems how "instructions" (gave from Jesus, and not Jeruzalem GB)  showed themselves as reasonable even from human standpoint. :))

Nope we can’t blame their lack of inspiration by Holy Spirit on distance.  What they do blame it on, is Jesus. 
Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food. w17 February p. 26
In light of this admittance, what is absolutely ironic is the emphasis on “pure language”.
It is especially noteworthy that the language that God gives his servants is said to be pure. This is true, not because of grammatical construction, but because it gives evidence of moral and spiritual cleanness. There is no allowance in this language for lying, deceit, or a tricky tongue. Those who speak this language must always speak truth. w91 4/1 p. 24-25
The organization boasts that “pure language” is found in the organization, when at the same time its leaders fail in providing truth. 
Jesus did promise to teach his faithful servants “all things”, which would be “perfect spiritual food”.  John 14:26; 1 John 2:27  Since the GB cannot receive it, neither do they receive the “pure language” from God...or anyone who learns from them.    
 
 

One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man’s existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation!
Here authors said how some "fulfilled Bible prophecy" showed something. This would mean how WT Society knew at that time what was already fulfilled or it will be. Is this claim really correct? Because they made interpretations about human events and projected their expectations, explained them as Bible prophecies. This was common practice.
Another thing, let me remind please what was explanation of "generation" in 1968?
 But they knew "something" about 70., what was more important for them :)) .... and it seems how "instructions" (gave from Jesus, and not Jeruzalem GB)  showed themselves as reasonable even from human standpoint. :))

Individuality and unity is what should be expected, and not clones as you said well. According to vision and description with word "bride" in the Bible, it would be more accurate to see artistic pictures of female persons (in heaven or earth) as 144000.
I can say how don't see any special need for 144000 to be in Heaven for purpose to reign. That can be done also very good from Earth too. But maybe we can say, for fun, that problem is hidden in transferring power of spirit from Heaven to Earth. We been explained by WT Society how "miracles" stopped. In that context it seems how one of "miracle" is to be inspired by God also finished in 1 century. :))) Perhaps that could be reason why is important for 14400 to be lifted in Heaven. Because distance must be too far, too long to be handled by spirit. :)))) 
 
This too verses show how distance is not obstacle for spirit's activity in 1 century. I really don't see why GB and Helpers making issue and such problem about "inspiration" and "be inspired" ?!! :))