Foreigner

BINGO!
Third grade BTK thinking.

I wish I could give that TWO upvotes, and an "Amen"!
It's true, and worse .... it's fair.

@BillyTheKid46, I guess that after you have called me and others a lot of terrible names, and after making a lot of false claims about me and others, that I should probably respond in the spirit of 1 Peter 3:15, especially since I made this thread at least partly about "honesty."
Since you have provided no evidence, except for some evidence that helps my case, and hurts your own, I really don't need to do anything more than just let you know that your opinions are mostly wrong and misleading. I know absolutely that nearly all your claims about me are wrong. And I think some of those claims are also dishonest, but I don't know enough about you to judge that for sure.
Also, for those many times when you appear to be the most disingenuous, you simultaneously give evidence that you cannot help but project onto others any of the negative things that your mind tells you might be true of yourself. For this reason, I do not consider you dishonest in many cases, since this is just a reflex in some people. For reference, I'll give a definition of this kind of projection from Google:
Psychological projection is a defense mechanism people subconsciously employ in order to cope with difficult feelings or emotions. Psychological projection involves projecting undesirable feelings or emotions onto someone else, rather than admitting to or dealing with the unwanted feelings.
You may not know this about yourself, but you sometimes make the projection obvious by even repeating portions of the exact vocabulary that disturbed you. A couple of times you have even devolved to the simplest kind of projection, reminiscent of the PeeWee-Hermanesque retort: "I know you are but what am I?"
For this reason I'm not at all insulted by your insults, but I feel sad for how well it explains your reflexive thinking. It makes me think that, at least subconsciously, every false thing you have said about me is something you are concerned might be true about yourself. To me, therefore, you are only insulting yourself.

Every statement you make, Billy, proves my working theory about what you are all about..
You are your own worst advocate.

For about a year I have been trying to figure out how you think, Billy ... whenever you come up with one of your arrogant, condescending, agenda driven posts, and I believe the idea just occurred to me with this last post of yours.
The last time I saw such lack of reasoning ability, and lack of logical thinking and such immature petulance was in Elementary School, in the Third Grade.
With this last post of yours the puzzle is complete.
As smart and as educated as you obviously are ... it is also painfully obvious you never grew up.
My condolences.
 

 
 

I agree with you.  And yes, they were very clever in their wording, and when it failed the congregants were blamed for anticipating the end to come in 1975.  This is oppression and loud deceit, no matter how it is presented.   When I wanted to become a JW, I told my Catholic father of my plan, and he became very angry.  He immediately related the story of a farmer and his family, whose tractor implements he frequently worked on.  He was outraged that this family sold their property and all goods with it; only to be found without the ability to support the family after the passing of 1975.  The world saw the proclamation through newspaper articles, and from JWs they may have come in contact with.  The world was aware of the effect that it had on them. 
Can we make a suggestive statement without getting directly to the point? People do it all the time, and usually the listener gets the picture.   In the WT leader’s hearts, was the date of 1975 for Armageddon.  In order for them to save face in case it failed (which has helped not at all to those who realize their strategy), they had to devise, as you somewhat implied, a dishonest way to go about it.  Satan did the same thing with Eve. 
What is very sad is that the leaders get away with this deception by twisting the results to reflect on the sheep as guilty ones.    Down to this day, as we’ve seen in a few comments, JWs hold WT leaders in high esteem, parroting what they have been told by the leaders, concerning the date.  BTK is one of them, when in his heart he certainly must know what motivated the hints they dropped, surrounding 1975.  Why is the argument made that they never said directly, a date, if not to defend the guilty ones?  How can an organization claim to follow God's laws when the leaders are full of deceit?  Amos 2:4-5
The effect of this on God’s people is never excused by Him. He will not clear the oppressors of guilt, as they have for themselves. 

Don't remember if this Watchtower discussion was added to the topic, but this is one of the major ones that explains the point about what should be expected to happen within months, not years, from 1975:
You don't need the Watchtower Library because it's on jw.org:
Remember that it's not specifically about Armageddon, but about the end of 6,000 years. But we need to pay more than the usual attention to how even THAT date, the date ending the 6,000 years since since Adam/Eve is supposed to drive lively discussions among "serious students of the Bible." It is "such an important date." No matter what it stands for, it should answer the question as to "why are we looking forward to 1975."
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1968602
Why are you looking forward to 1975?
WHAT about all this talk concerning the year 1975? Lively discussions, some based on speculation, have burst into flame during recent months among serious students of the Bible. . . . The nearness of such an important date indeed fires the imagination and presents unlimited possibilities for discussion. . . .
How do we know their calculations are correct? . . .  Does the one Book that can be implicitly trusted for its truthful historical accuracy, namely, the Inspired Word of Jehovah, the Holy Bible, give support and credence to such a conclusion?
. . . Already with the help supplied by the Bible we have accurately measured back from the spring of this year 1968 C.E. to the spring of 1513 B.C.E., a total of 3,480 years. With the continued faithful memory and accurate historical record of Jehovah’s Holy Word we can penetrate even deeper into the past . . .
Since the affliction of Israel ended in 1513 B.C.E., it must have begun in 1913 [B.C.E.], 400 years earlier. . . .
It is now only a matter of adding up the years of a few generations to date the Flood correctly. The figures are given in Genesis, chapters 11 and 12 . . . Adding this figure 1,656 to 2,370 gives 4026 B.C.E., the Gregorian calendar year in which Adam was created.
Thus, through a careful independent study by dedicated Bible scholars who have pursued the subject for a number of years, and who have not blindly followed some traditional chronological calculations of Christendom, we have arrived at a date for Adam’s creation that is 22 years more distant in the past than Ussher’s figure. This means time is running out two decades sooner than traditional chronology anticipates.
. . . of what benefit is this information to us today? Is it not all dead history, as uninteresting and profitless . . .
Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man’s existence coincides with the sabbathlike thousand-year reign of Christ. If these two periods run parallel with each other as to the calendar year, it will not be by mere chance or accident but will be according to Jehovah’s loving and timely purposes. . . .
It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah’s seventh creative “day.” Why not? Because after his creation Adam lived some time during the “sixth day,” which unknown amount of time would need to be subtracted from Adam’s 930 years, to determine when the sixth seven-thousand-year period or “day” ended, and how long Adam lived into the “seventh day.” And yet the end of that sixth creative “day” could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam’s creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years.
One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man’s existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the “day and hour”!
36 Even if one cannot see beyond 1975, is this any reason to be less active?
One might wonder how persons were then "toying with the words of Jesus" in a way that drew away from the idea that 1975 proved that the end of this system was rapidly coming to its violent end. In other words, all this talk of 1975 somehow proved that Armageddon was rapidly coming. Perhaps persons were "toying with" the words of Jesus in the way that someone might be "toying with" immoraility?

"Millions now living will never die!"  (WT publications: 1918-1925) "If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things." (WT publication: Awake! 5/22/1969) These two prophecies are nearly equivalent, and were both made for very similar reasons, although under different circumstances.

Because…birds of a feather flock together.
Here is a handful of Russell's "signals":
"In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that the date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove; Firstly, that at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, Thy Kingdom come, will obtain full, universal control, and that it will then be set up, or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions." (The Time Is At Hand, 1888, p. 76, 77)
"Remember that the forty years' Jewish Harvest ended October A.D. 69, and was followed by the complete overthrow of that nation; and that likewise the forty years of the Gospel age harvest will end October, 1914, and that likewise the overthrow of 'Christendom,' so-called, must be expected to immediately follow." (1889 Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 245)
"Complete destruction of the 'powers that be' of 'this present evil worlds - political, financial, ecclesiastical - about the close of the Time of the Gentiles; October A.D. 1914." (C.T. Russell, Studies in the Scriptures, IV, p. 622, 1897)
"Be not surprised, then, when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty (Rev. 16:14) which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced. The gathering of the armies is plainly visible from the standpoint of God's word." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, The Time Is At Hand, 1889 Ed., p. 101. The 1915 Edition of this texts changed "A.D. 1914" to read 'A.D. 1915')
"In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914." (The Time Is At Hand, 1902 edition, p. 99)
"When Uranus and Jupiter meet in the humane sign of Aquarius in 1914, the long-promised era will have made a fair start in the work of setting man free to work out his own salvation, and will insure the ultimate realization of dreams and ideals of all poets and sages in history." (Watchtower, May 1, 1903, p. 130-131; p3184 Reprints)
You would compare the pope's vision of 1975 as a "new birth", to give credence to Watchtower's validation of 1975.  Incredible.  
Yes, birds of a feather flock together. 
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.   Matt 12:38,39
Then Jesus said to him, “Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe.”  John 4:48
Matt 13:10-17
 
"The Sign of the Son of Man" - 4womaninthewilderness blogspot
 
 
 

In the 'run-up" to 1975 I WAS THERE, AND PAYING ATTENTION, and thought everyone had gone nuts. I drew cartoons on the inside covers of my Society's books ridiculing the idea ... and in that approximate ten year period, from Richmond, Virginia, to Hollywood California, to Kinshasa, Zaire, where I lived and worked ... THE STORY WAS ALL THE SAME.
I was in the Congo in 1974 and it got so intense that I reasoned (incorrectly) "How could I be right, and EVERYBODY else be wrong ?", so in a spasm of intellectual cowardice, I caved in to the peer pressure, and quit the best job I ever had, full of adventure and excitement, to return to Virginia to be with my parents, WHEN THE END CAME.
Don't give me any crap about "it didn't happen".
1975 is what didn't happen. 
And it generated literally TONs of money for the Society to keep that fear going at an accelerated pace for a decade before 1975.
that is why this issue will never die ... until after the people like myself who WERE THERE,  are silenced by the grave.

 

We are all presumably looking forward to it, but if we are participating in service activities or increasing our service activity because of a belief that it will happen in a specific century, then we are also serving with a date in mind.
Back to this point again for a minute. This is similar to saying: It doesn't matter that we were teaching a falsehood, at least a lot of these little ones were stumbled.
Do we really thing that God wanted to test us with false doctrines?
13 When under trial,+ let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone.

Actually, it probably did not. The emphasis on the years surrounding 1975 came especially from Fred Franz, the primary source of that emphasis. He was not cleansed from the organization, and with Knorr's failing health in 1976, Franz even became the President of the WTS. Recall that Franz joined the WTS way back just before 1914, when the emphasis on serving for a date was at its peak. The WTS even printed cards so followers could count down their last year on earth, by checking off every single day until October 1, 1914. Then when that failed, the next big thing was to promote the dates 1915, then 1918, then 1925. After that the organization claimed that it learned to stop setting dates.
“Ever since the 1870's, Bible Students had been serving with a date in mind - first 1914, then 1925. Now they realized that they must serve for as long as Jehovah wishes.” Watchtower 1993 Nov 1 p.12
Those who were not looking for a date included the portion of the Writing Department who had worked on the Aid Book, the first major publication that admitted that our chronology was not based on facts but only on assumptions. All of those brothers on the Aid Book team were dismissed from the Writing Department, two of them disfellowshipped, and another disfellowshipped later. Two major contributors (besides R.Franz) were sent back to their congregations with only an offer of a special pioneer stipend.
There were others in the Writing Department and Governing Body who questioned our beliefs surrounding 1914, including Schroeder, Swingle, Chitty and Sydlik. Sydlik also knew my own belief about 1914, and told me that now would be a good time to "watch our tongue." Schroeder didn't get into trouble because he was the head Inquisitor to root out "apostasy" where one of his major questions was about whether one questioned 1914. (Even though he himself questioned 1914.) Although some members of the Writing Department and one member of the Service Department  knew that I also questioned 1914, I never admitted this to Brother Schroeder, even though I saw him nearly every day.)
But the persons who were taking the most prominent lead in promoting the period surrounding 1975 were F.W.Franz and two persons in Writing who hitched themselves closely and loyally to F.W.Franz. As far as I can tell it included NO ONE ELSE ON THE GOVERNING BODY, even those who called F.W.Franz, the Oracle. The next more prominent persons promoting the idea that we should be serving more and more with a date in mind were the leading members of the Service Department (including Correspondence). These were also the ones who promoted the talks by District Overseers on the topic of 1975 because their "job" was to "effect a greater urgency and increase in the service activities: placements, studies, hours.) They watched the numbers from month to month, and were guided by what types of appeals, encouragement, goals, requirements, reasoning, etc., appeared to have the most effect on those numbers:
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/201974163
Should we not today be imitating his example, especially since we have such a short time left now in which to complete the Kingdom-preaching? Yes, the end of this system is so very near! Is that not reason to increase our activity? . . . Yes, since the summer of 1973 there have been new peaks in pioneers every month. Now there are 20,394 regular and special pioneers in the United States, an all-time peak. That is 5,190 more than there were in February 1973! A 34-percent increase! Does that not warm our hearts? Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world’s end.
This is the definition of "serving with a date in mind." These brothers, including the infamous Charles Sunutko, were guided by this thinking that came out of the Service Department which came out of F.W.Franz. These were the loyal ones, serving with a date in mind. These were NOT the ones who were punished in any way, precisely because they did NOT question.
 

I am witness to some elders comments about 1975. That what i was heard was between 1977 and 1980.
In short, they have explanation why nothing had happened in 1975. Because time gap between creation of Adam and Eve is The Answer :))))  
So, obviously they waiting for Armageddon in 1975 :))

This "Concept" is not fixed, not fixed even from Bible aspect. For in Your sight a thousand years are but a day that passes, or a watch of the night. - Psalm 90.
From this Bible based "Concept" 1000 years is as 4 hours not 24 hours or 1 full day (Jew Concept, 12 hours of day light and 12 hours of night). This would mean how One Day is 6000 years. And not 7000 years as in some Calculations WT Society explained (as time was passed Length of  "Creation Day" had various calculation - 1000 years, 7000 years and as "Contemporary Light of Today" explained, that is: Unknown Period of Time)
Well, basically, if we want to take in consideration all this changes in JW Organization on Doctrines about Time and Periods, you based your "Concept" on WT Society "Concept", ..... and this is untrustworthy.  

The very second he rebelled against God; he became a damaged angelic being. I believe, scripture stipulates how Satan tempted Jesus to become imperfect as Adam if he bowed down to Satan's will. Did Jesus lose his perfection? No!
I believe scripture also states, Satan will be destroyed at the end. One can compare the word "destroyed" to mean death, just like Adam meet his death by imperfection.
That goes for the angels who followed Satan. Therefore, this is a non-argument.

The very second he rebelled against God; he became a damaged angelic being. I believe, scripture stipulates how Satan tempted Jesus to become imperfect as Adam if he bowed down to Satan's will. Did Jesus lose his perfection? No!
I believe scripture also states, Satan will be destroyed at the end. One can compare the word "destroyed" to mean death, just like Adam meet his death by imperfection.
That goes for the angels who followed Satan. Therefore, this is a non-argument.

I made suggestion how people don't need to be "perfect" to be able speaking truth.
Definition of truth
 (Entry 1 of 2)
1 a (1): the body of real things, events, and facts : ACTUALITY
       (2): the state of being the case : FACT
       (3) often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality
b: a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true truths of thermodynamics
c: the body of true statements and propositions
2 a: the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality
   b chiefly British : TRUE sense 2
   c: fidelity to an original or to a standard
3 a: sincerity in action, character, and utterance
   b archaic : FIDELITY, CONSTANCY
4 capitalized, Christian Science : GOD
in truth
: in accordance with fact : ACTUALLY
In that sense, about idea of "perfection". What are your thoughts about devil and his angels. Did devil lost his "perfection"? Did he lost his abilities as spiritual creatures? In case of Adam and Eve, people said how they lost their "perfection" in meaning: they lost everlasting life, they lost to stay young, they lost continuation to be and stay in "perfect" health of body and mental power etc. 
In that meaning (comparing), what do you think: Did devil lost his power "to fly", be invisible, to making supernatural things of all kind as it is described in Bible? Does his ability to deceive is less powerful (less "perfect")  today   than before? Because, perhaps as in case of interpretation made by religious people - as people are far from genuine perfection of Adam and Eve, they come to be "more imperfect". What ever that is and can be. 
If this is explanation or one of explanations, as reason why people going from "bad to worst",... than it is strange how people today are able to do "more" (more in every sense) than people before, more than people who was "closer" to "perfection", because time gap between them and Adam and Eve was less than it is from people today. 
I can conclude how  "perfection" or "imperfection" is not guarantee for anyone, will/would he speak the truth or not.
Devil spoke lie to Adam and Eve when he was "perfect". His lie happened to be Before God called/give him a name "snake", much before God "dfd" him. In fact, i have to ask: Do you now some Bible verse who give some idea or reason to believe that devil had come been "imperfect" after rebellion? (he became imperfect after the lie was told?)
Adam and Eve also spoke lie, and that was happened before God send them out of Eden. In this examples i don't see nothing, but evidence how "perfection" of all sort, of any kind, does not mean inability to act as "imperfect" (to tell a lie - purposely, for example ...... ) Or to look on "imperfection" as only reason why somebody tell wrong, error statement   :)) 

I believe the last major change was in 1985.
Any Baptisms before that you did not swear legal fealty to the Organization.
After 1985, having subordinated yourself to the Corporation, you had no legal standing to sue them in Court if they screwed up your life.
I do not think this matters to Jehovah, because this is NEVER mentioned before you stand up and say "YES" moments before you are baptized, and the language is couched in such language as to be deliberately misleading in intent, if not actually stated.
They take advantage of the passion and happiness of the moment to "microchip" you for future control, but Jehovah knows a person's heart, and He also understands trickery, and hypnosis.
Currently, there is NO ONE on Earth who can fire the Governing Body .... and they know it!
No matter what they do .... the money just keeps rolling in.
day, after day, after day.
... even on the Weekends.
 
 
 
 

I am not Pearl Doxsey, but I work with her.  Wow, you went to her blog, defying the rules and regulations of your organization, not to seek out, "apostates".   

May I console you by saying I will not lose any sleep over that ...
I challenged you MANY times to point out where JUST ONE thing I have ever said on this forum was a lie  ... and of over seven years and perhaps 9,000 or so comments I have made on every imaginable subject ... you ALWAYS choked and never provided not even ONE single example.
NOT ONE!
I may be occasionally wrong ... but I do not lie.
You are really at war with yourself, Billy.
I sincerely hope you win!
 

huh.... if you sure about that as your personal belief , it is something that is possible to accept. But only as your Interpretation and personal attitude ..... of hope.
Now,  when Writing Department and "Minister of Internal Truth" gave green light on text to be print with wording that IT IS in magazine, your argumentation is not so powerful. Because, all those smart people in Betel and around the Betel who working hard on wording in articles would used different lexis with clear and sound meaning IF they want to tell what you tell here. :))     

Yes, I do have Asperger's Syndrome .... I guess you are just nuts.

**********************************
I suppose it all comes down to the issue of credibility of the one doing the analysis of unseen, invisible things that happened a hundred years ago.
How many times has the WTB&TS been right?,  and
How many times has the WTB&TS been wrong?
********************************
 

I don't care if it was encouraged by Mickey Mouse from the future!
If it is the death penalty to park your car in a handicapped parking space, and you DO park your car in a handicapped parking space ... it does not matter WHO made or influenced the laws.
You have committed a capital crime.
You are GUILTY of a capital crime!
.... and it is lawful to execute you.
The fact that the law is changed at a later date IS A WHOLE OTHER SUBJECT!

I rest my case.