Patiently waiting for Truth

@César Chávez asks me, "When did the Watchtower GB "ever" judge you, personally as you have personally judged them?" The answer is quite simple but you don't really want an answer. The GB do not need to judge me as i have no effect on their lives. I do need to judge the GB, just as you yourself have judged them, because it affects our lives. But my judging them goes further because the GB affect the lives of all JWs and all people that might wish to join the CCJW org'. So my Christian conscience tells me to warn others of the danger from the GB and the CCJW Org. JWs judge the Catholic religion and it's Pope. JWs judge the Muslim religion and all other religions. The GB and Watchtower judge all other religions. You yourself judge other religions and you judge governments. That can be seen by your earlier comments. For instance, you offered this challenge "Now show me a religious group that "hasn't" fallen in Satan's world? Show me a list of "all" the government institutions that are perfect." By this comment you are seen to be judging other religions and governments. I have found scripture to be relative. For instance Matthew 7 1. “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. That sounds good, because I judge others by God's word in scripture. And I expect to be judged by God's word too. I do agree with you about life choices. Hence i left the CCJW Org. Why would i want to remain part of such an immoral organisation. But i knew I would be shunned by over 120 people from the local congregation and i knew i would be falsely accused of wrongdoing and accused of being disfellowshipped. As for the outcome of JTR, i had no idea. I didn't follow the court case. JTR is just one man. He wasn't the Leader of 8.5 million people and i don't think he was trying to start his own religion. He was neither a friend nor an enemy of mine, he was just another member of this forum... But in this case it does prove your point about life choices. And as for my own sins, I do tell everyone that i don't expect to be in that 'New World'. By that viewpoint i leave it to God through Christ to judge me.

@César Chávez you are burbling. You ramble on about my words being empty, and then you start going on about JTR and Allen smith, and 'proper authorities being informed'. Everything you say there is totally off topic and does not relate to anything we have spoken about. Yes if it has been proven, then JTR messed up his own life, and must pay the price both legally and spiritually. As for Allen Smith he was before my time on here and I know nothing about him. I agree that God through Christ will judge us all. I'm not expecting to be in the 'New World'. However Romans 9 v 14, 15 & 16 tells us, 14 What are we to say, then? Is there injustice with God? Certainly not! 15 For he says to Moses: “I will show mercy to whomever I will show mercy, and I will show compassion to whomever I will show compassion.” 16 So, then, it depends, not on a person’s desire or on his effort, but on God, who has mercy. So no matter what we think of each other, it is Almighty God through Jesus Christ that judges us as individuals when judgement day arrives. But for now, each of us has to judge the GB and the CCJW Organisation for ourselves. You judge them to be good. I judge them to be bad. We have to judge them to be able to make a decision about what we should do in our own lives. You have judged them to be serving God properly therefore you follow them. I have judged them to be turning their back on God and Christ and therefore I have left them. However you have judged me "as a prosecutor of Gods people and his faithful servants, regardless if you accept it or not." And you tell me "You are only condemning yourself!!" So, you make judgement of me. That is of course your choice. But you are judging me by the standards of the GB and the CCJW. You are not judging me by God's written word. No where in God's word does in mention the GB or the CCJW as being God's people. Please remember the scriptures say, 'by their works you will know them'. And I have judged the GB and the CCJW Org' by Bible principles and by Jesus' words.

These words by @César Chávez By your misinterpretation and nonsense, Of course. Now show me a religious group that "hasn't" fallen in Satan's world? Show me a list of "all" the government institutions that are perfect. So, is Ce'sar judging the CCJW by worldly standards. Is he say the CCJW is better than all the rest? DID GOD judge the Nation Of Israel by the condition of the rest of the world ? NO. GOD judged the Nation Of Israel by HIS OWN standards. And so it shall be. GOD through Christ will judge the GB and the CCJW by GOD'S STANDARDS not by the fallen standards of the rest of the world.

Quote @Space Merchant This isn't anything new.. No that's why the topic is an UPDATE. You seem very defensive of them thought not actually being one. Quote "I recall claims the lot of you pointed out, which to this day is still unfounded, " Remind us then of these claims. One thing that occurred to me as funny was your first sentence that reminded me of a scripture. Quote SM. This isn't anything new... Since the whole Redress thing, JWs are still operating. 2 Peter 3 v4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” Just because YOU cannot see any changes, doesn't mean things continue as they were.

Remember when Jesus was asked a question about His authority, Jesus answered with another question. Well then, can you provide a quote where I have said, that the Leaders of the CCJW said the world is going to be destroyed in 1975. But there seems to be lots of proof available that the Leaders of that organisation made false predictions in 1941 and in the 1960's. When that organisation said in the 60's that it would be fulfilled 'within a FEW YEARS' of the time those magazines were written. Tell me, from your viewpoint, how many is a FEW ? Surely less than 10.

few Within a few years at most a small number of. "may I ask a few questions?" used to emphasize how small a number is. "he had few friends" pronoun 1. a small number of people or things. 2. used to emphasize how small a number of people or things is. But they won't listen @Srecko Sostar because they serve and worship their GB.

@César Chávez 2“The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. Yes it is true they did so. BUT Your GB do not sit in the seat of Moses. Your GB did not inherit anything. They are not of the Nation of Israel. Please remeber that Jesus went to 'The lost tribe of the House of Israel'. Jesus did not go to the nations. Jesus was speaking to Jews. If only people would understand the Jesus went first to the physical Jews, and now to the spiritual Jews. The scriptures are for the Anointed ones. But as you say "he (Jesus) was not out to "destroy" the Pharisees but to SHOW the people their hypocrisy. They should observe and obey the will of God and not fall into their own desires," I too am not out to destroy true servants of God. I am not out to destroy the CCJW as an organisaton either. If God through Christ wants to use the CCJW then it would be wrong of me to work against God and Christ. BUT just as you say about Jesus showing the hypocrisy of the Pharisees, so I and others show the hypocrisy of the GB and others leading the CCJW. @Srecko Sostar mentioned how it seemed strange for Jesus to say what he did. And in fact those ones that followed Jesus did not continue to " practice and observe everything they tell you." Those that followed Jesus did things Jesus' way. We know they did so because the Jewish religious leaders often complained about the behavior of the disciples. BUT Jesus' way was the 'new' way of serving God. It is your GB and others in the CCJW that follow their own desires. Child Sexual Abuse Earthwide in the CCJW proves that some of your fellow congregants have followed their own desires. The GB calling themselves the F&DS and beating their fellow slaves proves that the GB follow their own desires. The GB and previous Leaders of the CCJW making false predictions about Armageddon also proves they have followed their own desires. How much more proof do you need about the hypocrisy in your CCJW Organisation ????

Well one of the things Jesus did was to reveal the wickedness of the 'religious leaders' of his time, and I am doing the same in our time. Another thing Jesus did was to show love and concern for people, which I also do. I take positive action in warning people of the dangers of false religion including the CCJW, and the dangers to Children in such false religion. I also tell people that there will be a 'coming judgement' time and that each person will be judged as an individual. I tell people that God is setting up a Kingdom and that 'chosen ones' will rule with Christ. I tell people that 'this world' is ruled by the devil and therefore humans would never be able to put things right on their own. You see, I do not have to be a JW to know the truth from God's Word. I do not need permission from your Org or it's Leaders to teach others truth. But what I DO NOT DO is to pretend to know the 'day or the hour' or the month or the year of the coming Judgement. I do not make threats about having to be in one particular 'religion' to 'get saved'. I DO NOT go beyond scripture. So I follow God and Christ more than your GB do. Your Leaders try to run ahead of God and Christ. Hence all their failed predictions.

We seem to have crossed over topics completely but ............... You JWs are so sly @TrueTomHarley to only partly quote me is as bad as misquoting me. You think it is the elders’ place to forbid any child to leave its parents side, then. Tom says. BUT YOU have said it does not happen. And what i said was Children separate from their parents for Bible study and for ministry and elders approve of it happening. And I was a JW for long enough to do ministry in many places and see it happen. In fact Elders that take groups split up families and send Children out with other Adults on the ministry. I hope that is clear enough for you TOM. One thing about being an EX JW is that I KNOW first hand what goes on in some congregations here in the England. And I add to that by court cases from USA where it has been proven that Children have been raped whilst in the ministry with an Elder. But JWs including Tom don't seem to think the GB or previous Leaders are guilty of anything. Even though it has been proven that congregants were told NOT TO REPORT CSA to outside authorities. sorry this is all off topic.

I don't see @TrueTomHarley commenting on this one. I presume this Elder was breaking the 'Superior Authorities' Law as well as breaking God's 'laws' and Christ's instructions.

The scriptures say to be obedient to the Superior Authorities, because those authorities stand in place by God's hand. I don't see the scriptures saying for humans to judge what Almighty God allows to be in place. What the Australian government is asking for does not go against God's laws or Christ's instructions.

So your type of 'normal people' just follow blindly then. Just as JWs blindly follow the GB. Your choice of course. I would sooner serve God through Christ. But if you wish to serve your GB blindly without looking into the 'inner workings' of your religion, then you will judged on that.

With WT, there is no program that separates children from parents. Almost all abuse reported is cases among the ‘rank and file’—those from elders or servants are unusual. So says @TrueTomHarley He is deliberately stating falsehoods here. And I will continue to look for and post every article I can find to prove that Elders and Ministerial Servants commit Child Sexual Abuse. Also, I will post every article concerning all levels of 'people with responsibility' within the CCJW that deliberately hide Child Sexual Abuse / Pedophilia within the CCJW by not reporting it. By not reporting CSA the Elders and others are allowing a pedophile to remain in the congregation unknown to other congregants and unknown to the public. They are allowing such a pedophile to continue to abuse children and to continue to break the law. Whilst there might not be a specific 'programme' of separating children from parents, it is obvious that such separating is allowed and approved of. I know it happens so no point in pretending it doesn't. It happens for personal Bible study, and, for ministry.

https://7news.com.au/politics/redress-groups-risk-losing-charity-status-c-1659571 We know this is not actually new news but is just an update Institutions refusing to join the national child abuse redress scheme face losing charity status through new laws planned by the Morrison government. The government has for months threatened groups failing to join the abuse scheme that they risked losing their charity status and would be banned from receiving federal funding. The wheels are turning on that threat, with the government planning to introduce draft legislation to parliament in the year's final sitting fortnight to tweak charity laws. Social Services Minister Anne Ruston said institutions facing an application for redress were expected to join the scheme. Jehovah's Witnesses, Kenja Communications and the Lakes Entrance Pony Club are some of the groups holding out. "We've been extremely disappointed in the behaviour of the Jehovah's Witnesses," the minister told ABC radio on Friday. "We have spent a lot of time trying to explain to them what we think is their moral obligation to participate in this scheme but they have to date declined to do so." Survivors can't be given redress unless the institution they were abused by has joined the scheme. The scheme can offer counselling, a direct response from responsible institutions and a redress payment. ... There are 80 institutions the government hopes will join by the end of the year, and about half are charities. ...The proposed laws change the definition of a basic religious charity to remove a religious institution's eligibility to be classified as one if it has been named in a redress application but refuses to join....A new charities standard would also require registered charities to take all reasonable steps to be part of the scheme if a claim has been or was likely to be made against them. Assistant Charities Minister Zed Seselja aid the changes could result in some institutions being deregistered as charities. "Deregistration would result in the entity losing access to a range of commonwealth benefits, tax and other concessions," he said. ... About 150 redress claims can now be processed after another 70 institutions joined the scheme. .. More than 8700 applications have been made in total but only 4221 have been processed. ... Head of survivor advocacy group Blue Knot Foundation Cathy Kezelman has applauded the government for the charity plan, saying the groups are not taking responsibility. "Every survivor living with the long-term impacts of trauma and abuse is one person too many," Dr Kezelman said. "It is time for zero tolerance to the systemic ducking and weaving and abject moral decay institutions failing to join the scheme perpetuate." Separate repost says The Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse shocked the nation as it highlighted the systemic failures of thousands of our mainstream institutions. To have 80 institutions abrogating their moral and human responsibility for the often irreparable harm caused to child under their watch is indefensible. It is impossible to reconcile religious or community groups purporting to do good works while at the same time presiding over a complete lack of accountability or responsibility for lives lost and decimated. The Jehovah’s Witnesses is but one of these recalcitrant institutions; but the scale of the crimes within, with allegations involving 1800 children and 1000 perpetrators, squarely places it front and centre as one whose active intransigence is reprehensible. The government is to be commended for its strong stance. Every child who is sexually abused is one child too many. Every survivor living with the long-term impacts of trauma and abuse is one person too many. It is time for zero tolerance to the systemic ducking and weaving and abject moral decay institutions failing to join the scheme perpetuate. Blue Knot Foundation welcomes the legislation being introduced to parliament to strip charities not signing up to National Redress Scheme of their charity status, said Dr Cathy Kezelman AM in response to the Federal Government’s legislation to strip organisations which do not sign up to the National Redress Scheme of their charitable status.

@César Chávez is throwing his toys out of the pram again and having a sulk. Dear C. C. you obviously know nothing about your GB and the Organisation. And, opinions of ex-witnesses and all people are of interest to normal people with balanced minds. It is only people such as yourself that have a closed mind and want to be blind to truth, that pretend ex-witnesses opinions do not matter. A lady on here blocks comments from me and others. A very stupid thing to do as she will never know truth or know a different point of view. I prefer to listen to all viewpoints, even yours, as it widens my thinking and reasoning ability. You do have some valid points sometimes as do most JWs. As for the Watchtower 'caring about ex-witness' views, I think they do take note of a lot of it. I actually think this forum is monitored by W/t helpers. Maybe JWI is one of them. I think that is why John Butler was dis/fed from here. Maybe he got too close to the mark.... Mentioning @JW Insider I think he gave some information about homosexuality within the GB or GB helpers, in Bethel, but of course you will not believe things that you dislike. C.C. Please face reality. The investigations EARTHWIDE cannot all be wrong. Even if 50% are wrong that still leaves a lot of wickedness and sin inside the CCJW. Wickedness and sin that the GB are responsible for.

Maybe it should be at least five years in jail if proven true. I wonder how long the child has been suffering.

https://www.nwherald.com/2020/11/24/crystal-lake-man-church-elder-charged-with-failing-to-report-sexual-abuse-of-child/aqqnlcw/ A Jehovah's Witness church elder is accused of failing to notify police about a known instance of sexual abuse against a minor in his congregation. Michael M. Penkava, 71, of Crystal Lake, was charged Nov. 18 with violating reporting provisions. The offense is a misdemeanor typically punishable by less than one year in jail.

The GB are the bad association. The GB have made their own Bible interpretation too. The GB have dishonest Lawyers to tell lies for them in courtrooms. The sins of your GB are as high as a mountain. They twist truth, misuse scripture, hide Pedophiles in the CCJW org, tell lies, pretend to be the F&DS and misguide millions of congregants. BUT as scripture tells us, 'The things done in darkness shall come out into the light' and this is now being seen Earthwide. Your GB don't have long left. Their reign of power is nearly over. Almighty God, through Christ, will remove your GB and replace them with True Anointed ones. Then God's Kingdom interests will move forward.

@Anna tries very hard to twist things. She is a well trained JW to be sure. I quote her The only message I know of is the message of the Good News and salvation for all those who want to live under God's Kingdom. However she deliberately 'forgets' to mention that the 'message' also says 'You have to be a baptised JW to be saved' and that Armageddon is so so so close that you must get into the Org NOW. Ignoring the fact that JWs have been saying this for around 100 years. And that the baptism is not 'In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit' as Jesus words instruct. No, it is in the name of JW Org. So getting baptised doesn't help one to be a Christian, it only helps one to be a JW. Then Anna says, Are you calling God a liar then? Are you saying God's Kingdom won't come? I find that disturbing. Don't be delusional Anna, you can see above my comment about what your Org preaches. God never gave a date for Armageddon. God never said we are in the last hour of the last day. And Jesus did not teach to baptise into JW Org. But you do not find those things disturbing it seems.

One cannot listen to these courses without the thought occurring that early Christians were persecuted for reasons exactly parallel to those of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Um, did the early Christians falsely declare the Great Day of Almighty God ? Did they hide Peadophiles in their congregations ? Did they pretend to be the F&DS ?

I didn't bother to read @TrueTomHarley book promoting rubbish above, as he just loves to try to be funny and/or make excuses for his failed American Governing Body. It is such a shame that they are all American or American influenced. They have become 'big headed' and obviously do not have God's or Christ's approval. A couple of quotes for dear Tom. It’s called getting the overall picture and not just zeroing in on what you want to see. OK, so lets enlarge on that one Tom. Overall picture of the Org' from it's beginning shows that the Org and it's Leaders have been putting dates on Armageddon from step one. It shows the Org' has been using Armageddon to frighten people into the Org'. One reason for doing so is to get more money from people, more congregants = more donations. another reason for doing so is Power. The bigger the Org, the more people the Leaders can control. Add to this that there is then more people to spread the lies of the Leaders. The more the lies are spoken, the more people will start to believe them. Then of course we have, what Tom calls my favourite subject. An overall picture of the Child Sexual Abuse within the CCJW / JW org shows that in Australia they started recoding it 50 years ago, but strangely enough America only seems to have a database / records for the past 25 ish years ???? But overall it can be seen as an Earthwide serious problem within the CCJW. So there we have an overall outlook on a couple of points concerning the CCJW. Just to note that many of us on here do look at the overall picture but then we get criticised for it. Second quote And what of this diatribe of yours that the ‘true anointed’ is to manifest itself (out of nowhere) in but a few years max? Is that not you asserting we are in the last of the last? It does seem that some on here do not have ANY SPIRITUAL FEELINGS AT ALL. They have NO FAITH IN GOD OR CHRIST. I can imagine Tom stood at the Red Sea with Moses. Tom would be saying "What's this diatribe about God saving us from the Egyptians" Where is your faith Tom ? The last hour of the last day as per your GB, would seem to mean this year or next. I have said it would take a few years to straighten out the CCJW and that would need a True Anointed to run it. I like to say 'True Anointed' as it has two meanings. 1. your GB keep saying that some 'anointed' are actually mentally sick. 2. your GB seem to think only they are 'special' and anointed. So TRUE ANOUNTED ones would not be 'sick' and would not be of your GB. I have in the past backed this up with scripture, but it has proven pointless as JW GB worshippers are blind to reason. @Anna quote Yes. It's natural for every generation to want to live to see all the good promises fulfilled in their lifetime. With the right attitude, this should not be a disturbing thing to anyone, at best. Sorry Anna, bad try. You seem to be washing over facts, such as your GB pretending to be the F&DS and previous leaders also pretending to be inspired of God's Holy Spirit. Not only have congregants served those Leaders to the point of worshipping them, but congregants have taken that message to millions of people in the world. The message that has been spread so far and wide has been LIES. If you do not find that disturbing then you have a problem. Thank you @Witness for adding further proof of the OVERALL PICTURE which Tom seems to want.

https://www.myjoyonline.com/news/politics/jehovahs-witnesses-will-not-enjoy-freebies-under-my-government-akua-donkor/ The flagbearer of the Ghana Freedom Party, Akua Donkor, says since the religious beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses do not allow them to exercise their franchise, they will not enjoy any benefit under her presidency. Justifying her decision, Madam Donkor explained that because they have refused to exercise their civic duty, they don’t deserve to enjoy any freebies from the State. Therefore, should she win the December 7 general election, her first action will be to expel all Jehovah’s Witnesses from the civil and public service and also prevent their children from enjoying free education. Madam Donkor, who was speaking during the first Akan presidential debate in Accra Monday maintained that they cannot benefit from government and will not be allowed to work in the public sector. The only opportunity available for Jehovah’s Witnesses in her government, she added, is for them to engage in private business.

Yes and those 'God fearing, legitimate true Christians' will not just be JWs.

@Space Merchant @TrueTomHarley Um, it has been proven over and over and over again that leaders of the CCJW (or what ever name it used in the past) had deliberately made false predictions, pretending they had some 'special knowledge'. Tom always tries to brush it off by using his sick humour, but bad try Tom. @Srecko Sostar has written a topic about the Org and Armageddon predictions for 1941. Maybe have a read of it you guys. You will note that the Leaders of the Org were saying that Armageddon was 'very near' in 1941. Then in the 1960's the Leaders of the Org again said Armageddon is very near. In fact one Watchtower in 1967 said 'we are in the last part of the last day'.......... Now the GB of the Org are once again saying 'we are in the last part of the last day' (It seems that Russell and Rutherford had their own expectations too. Something about prophets returning to Earth. Armageddon coming in 1914. et al. But my mind doesn't bother to keep this stuff as it's not important to me) But Tom really shows himself to lack spirituality or humility in these things. I quote him Everyone gets one failed end-date call within a lifetime. It’s in the rules. It’s a sign of staying alert. Jump the gun in the race and do they shoot you with it? No. It’s not a big deal. They just start the race over. That is a very sad comment and shows complete lack of wanting to serve God properly. Your GB PRETEND to be the Faithful and Discreet Slave class, but you have just proven by your comment Tom, that your GB are just men that 'jump the gun', that do not wait on God, and, that say 'The master is delaying'. The CCJW and the Org under previous names have had many failed predictions. The GB and it's Org prove themselves to be false prophets. Whether SM or TTH or anyone else wants to believe in the 1975 thing, is up to them. Whether the 'Stay alive till 75' thing mattered or not to anyone I don't know. However we do know that brothers and sisters sold their houses and moved into their converted garages, or into small flats, so that they could full time pioneer / preach the coming 'end of the world'. But most of those people are probably dead now, they were the older ones that believed everything the Leaders told them. The funny thing is it would seem that many JWs now, do not believe the things they are taught by the GB. Physically in, spiritually out it seems. Playing both sides of the game. Having seen so many false teachings many JWs just go through the motions of being a JW whilst doing their own study and research. And that is why the GB have told the Anointed NOT to gather together, because the GB are getting frightened as they are losing power and money.

Whilst trying to tackle the problem of child sexual abuse earth wide seems like a good idea, it has to be realised that CSA will not be removed completely in this wicked system of things. Many people 'in the world' do not have a Christian conscience or good intentions, so CSA will continue to happen. However, if a person believes that they are in the 'true' religion then the best they can hope for is that CSA will be removed from that religion. That means the leaders and those in authority within that religion MUST HAVE a good Christian conscience, and MUST have good intentions. Unfortunately it has been proven that the GB of CCJW and many JW Elders do not have either a good Christian conscience or good intentions.