César Chávez

Most of the people I've seen who professed to be were on the "needs his meds" side of things.

Jehovah’s Witnesses given €12,000 fine for incitement to hatred against ex-members
Tuesday, 16 March 2021   The Jehovah’s Witnesses in Belgium must pay a €12,000 fine for the systematic and “disturbing” exclusion of ex-members who have left the organisation, the Ghent correctional court ruled on Tuesday.
The court ruled that the non-profit association behind Jehovah’s Witnesses is guilty of inciting discrimination and hatred or violence against former members, reports the Belga news agency.
“The Jehovah’s Witnesses’ shunning policy cuts to the very core of relationships, and the victims suffer both physical and psychological consequences,” one of the lawyers of the civil parties said during the trial last month.
In 2015, an ex-member took the organisation to the Ghent public prosecutor’s office for slander and defamation, insults and violation of the discrimination law.
He claimed that once the members had left the group, they were disowned and completely isolated socially, by order of the organisation.
The Ghent public prosecutor’s office summoned the Jehovah’s Witnesses for four charges: incitement to discrimination on the basis of religious belief against a person, and against a group, as well as incitement to hatred or violence against a person, and against a group.
Belgium’s Interfederal Equal Opportunities Centre Unia and some fifteen individuals had taken up civil action, with the victims’ lawyers emphasizing the far-reaching consequences of the “shunning policy,” reports De Morgen.
“Jehovah’s Witnesses state that ex-members should be shunned like the plague,” said lawyer Pieter-Bram Lagae, who assists the ex-witness who started the case.
“He used to sit on the Jehovah’s Judicial Committee and help decide on exclusions, until he realized it was going too far,” Lagae said. “We act, for example, for a man whose wife is still a member, and he is ignored in his own home. Or a woman who has never seen her father since the exclusion.”
“This is just the start,” former Jehovah’s Witnesses member Patrick Haeck told Het Nieuwsblad. “We are going to the European Court. This has to stop everywhere.”
Maïthé Chini
The Brussels Times
https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/160238/jehovahs-witnesses-given-e12000-fine-for-incitement-to-hatred-against-ex-members-ghent-correctional-court-unia-shunning-policy/

And now everyone who is not mentally handicapped should understand the context and reasons for this statement?
.....  

They have to be, they NEED the money.  It's only your GB that say that the anointed are mentally ill. 

There's no shortage of mentally ill people among JW's that's for sure. Shows what a tolerant and welcoming lot they are.

I think this is proof enough that John Butler DID NOT threaten the life of anyone. 
Therefore John Butler WAS removed because of BillyTheKid46 complaints. 
John Butler was clearly referring to an action that would be either by Angels or by God's Holy Spirit. 
The Librarian obviously knew this so it seems that JB was removed WITHOUT WARNING, just to please BTK.
All JB meant was that God is capable of doing anything God wishes to do. 
If believing that God CAN do miracles is a 'fantasy' in your eyes, then you have lost faith in God And Christ. 
And if you believe that God will continue to allow the stumbling of people that want to serve HIM, then I do believe you are in for a shock. 

@César Chávez  Never answers questions directly, but slyly moves sideways to avoid the issues. This is typical JW practice, although i do not think CC is actually a JW at all.
I'm not actually sure what this is all about. CC unfortunately acts like a child in a tantrum throwing his toys out of the pram. 
I've no idea who i am 'supposed to be' inciting to damage, hurt or kill others.  Whereas the GB / Leaders of JW Org do incite the Elders to 'spiritually kill' congregants.  And to the point of giving orders 'not to contact people that have left the org, or have been de/fed', the GB & Co are guilty of the loss of life of those that commit suicide because of their 'orders'. 

Thanks for another laugh @César Chávez.  I'm sure other people will laugh at you too. 
Did John Butler 'threaten' the GB. I note you put it in inverted commas.  No one covered for him, you (BillytheKid) complained so much he was d/fed from the forum. 
But do tell me, was it hate speech when Jesus condemned the Pharisees as hypocrites, white washed graves, ect ? 

I might even get in trouble for this because no one gave me permission to capture images of posts. But I promise The Librarian and admin(s?) that this is the only place I will do this (for this particular topic). Here is an image of BillyTheKid (Cesar Chavez) responding to the words of John Butler (4Jah2me) and another image in response to action taken by The Librarian:
Personally, I believe that the words from John Butler did not constitute a specific imminent threat, but they still reveal something dangerous. Even if it only reveals a "fantasy" that God by some miracle will "one day soon" find a way to kill a specific group of people, this fantasy may result in someone acting on it. If I were the forum owner/admin, I would have removed it and given the person a warning because the death fantasy is about a specific group of identifiable individuals. In this case I think BTK46 did the right thing to bring it to the attention of the forum owners. If they had allowed the continued promotion of these ideas, they could possibly even be held liable if someone had acted upon the fantasy.
I am only repeating two of the posts here because they put JB's words in an expository context, and they are being rightly confronted by BTK46 in this case.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jehovahs-witness-congregation-blamed-for-rape-8v7m70jcp
The Charity Commission has accused the Jehovah’s Witnesses of resisting a child protection inquiry
 
A Jehovah’s Witness congregation was responsible for the rape of a young woman because of the power male “elders” wielded over “sheep-like” members, the Court of Appeal ruled.
The victim had complained about Mark Sewell’s kissing and innuendo but was urged to show “compassion” by his father, who, like Sewell, was an elder at the church in south Wales.
The Charity Commission has also claimed that the church nationally was frustrating attempts to investigate its child protection procedures.
The victim of Sewell’s rape, known as Mrs B, did not report the attack to the church authorities until she discovered that he was sexually abusing a girl whose father was also an elder. A “judicial committee” of elders from another congregation questioned Mrs B ..........
Why Respect Authority? - JW.ORG
www.jw.org/.../in-gods-love/why-respect-authority Christians obey the instruction found at Romans 13:1-7. (Read.) We respect “the superior authorities” and obey the laws of the country or community where we live. These laws may affect our family, business, or possessions. For example, we pay taxes and provide information that the government requires.
The Charity Commission has accused the Jehovah’s Witnesses of resisting a child protection inquiry
You decide who is telling the truth here  
 

... a VERY good question!

You are trying to put yourself in the place of Jesus Christ.
All authority was given to Christ, not to you. 
The GB seem to have trained you well. They have no authority either but they want to rule over the True Anointed and over millions of the Earthly class.   If your GB were ever anointed then it is they who have blasphemed against the Holy Spirit. But of course the GB will pay for their spiritual and physical crimes and sins. 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200021176

@César Chávez, you began your now deleted message reply to me, with...
"You have poisoned his mind. The church of Christ is NOT only the anointed. It includes the priest. Who are the priest, everyone else that is NOT anointed."
This would mean all JWs are priests.  But, have you had a change of thought on this?  Just in case you haven't...
Who was anointed with oil?
  w74 4/15 p. 251-252 - God established a priesthood with ancient Israel, primarily in order to foreshadow his real heavenly priesthood. He selected Aaron the brother of Moses, of the tribe of Levi, as high priest. Moses anointed Aaron with oil.
These spirit-anointed ones look forward to an actual entrance into heaven in due time. As one of their fellow priests expressed it: “This hope we have as an anchor for the soul, both sure and firm, and it enters in within the curtain, where a forerunner has entered in our behalf, Jesus, who has become a high priest according to the manner of Melchizedek forever.”—Heb. 6:19, 20.
The priesthood has over them AS THEIR HEAD, Jesus Christ – their High Priest and Head of the Body.  ( Heb 3:1; Eph 4:4,12) 
The priests/Body of Christ are the “firstfruits” to benefit from the New Covenant. (James 1:18) They MUST ALL TEACH TRUTH to the rest of God’s children/believers in Jesus and the Father – now, and always, in the Kingdom.  (Mal 2:7)  In union with Jesus Christ, ("one body"), they are the "trees" that provide "healing of the nations". (Matt 7:18-20; Rev 22:1-5)
What is rather amazing, is JWs fabricate their own doctrine that diverts from doctrine established (at one time) in the organization.  It seems there is “new light” emanating from the mouths of all JWs.  Yet, they will defend the organization, over defending truth in Jesus Christ.
As you come to him, a living stone—rejected by people but chosen and honored by God— 5 you yourselves, as living stones, a spiritual house, are being built to be a holy priesthood to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For it stands in Scripture:
See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and honored cornerstone,
and the one who believes in him
will never be put to shame.
7 So honor will come to you who believe; but for the unbelieving,
The stone that the builders rejected—
this one has become the cornerstone,
8 and
A stone to stumble over,
and a rock to trip over.
They stumble because they disobey the word; they were destined for this.
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood a holy nation, a people for his possession, so that you may proclaim the praises of the one who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.  1 Pet 2:4-9
The house of God is His Temple.  Only the priests are allowed to serve in the Temple.  (1 Cor 3:16) (Num 3:10; Ezek 44:5-9
 
 

It seems that Tom has turned apostate here and now Tom believes the Devil will become good. it looks as if tom no longer believes in Armageddon, because tom thinks Armageddon is no longer necessary due to Tom's idea that the Devil will be good and evryone will have peace. Poor old tom, unless this is his new Book. 
 

Then as I and millions of others read it, Jesus would resurrect his physical body.

It’s an advertisement from a law firm, you dodo.
Even an accident attorney crows about verdicts he has won, not just the bluster he hopes will carry the day in the event that he finds a client.
WRITTEN BY:
Robins Kaplan LLP

https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/robins-kaplan-justice-report-winter-4640478/?
ESTABLISHING DUTY IN CHILD SEX ABUSE CASES AGAINST THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES -
In 2019, 13 states and the District of Columbia amended civil statutes to enlarge statutes of limitations for child sex abuse claims. Eight of these jurisdictions enacted revival statutes allowing previously time-barred child sex abuse claims to proceed: New York, the District of Columbia, Montana, New Jersey, Arizona, Vermont, Rhode Island, and North Carolina.
In 2019, 13 states and the District of Columbia amended civil statutes to enlarge statutes of limitations for child sex abuse claims. Eight of these jurisdictions enacted revival statutes allowing previously time-barred child sex abuse claims to proceed: New York, the District of Columbia, Montana, New Jersey, Arizona, Vermont, Rhode Island, and North Carolina. Since implementation of these statutes, survivors of child sex abuse have filed complaints against many different institutions—not just against individual perpetrators of abuse—including, the Roman Catholic Church, various independent schools, the Boy Scouts of America, and the Jehovah’s Witnesses parent-organization, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. (“Watchtower”). Institutions may be directly liable for sex abuse committed by their agents through negligencebased claims, such as, negligent supervision, hiring/ retention, and failure to warn. In Jehovah’s Witnesses cases, perpetrators of sex abuse commonly hold the position of church “elder” or “ministerial servant.” In those cases, attorneys for the Jehovah’s Witnesses typically argue that elders and ministerial servants are unpaid volunteers, not employees or agents of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and, thus, the organization has no duty to protect one congregant from abuse by another congregant, especially if the abuse occurred off congregation premises. Below are some examples of evidence that Plaintiffs’ attorneys have successfully marshaled to counter this argument. First, the Jehovah’s Witnesses organizational structure shows that elders and ministerial servants are indeed agents of the Church. In J.W. v. Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc., California’s appeals court provides a generally accurate description of the Jehovah’s Witnesses hierarchy. The relevant upshot is that, “[e]lders are the highest authority at the congregational level,” and, thus, are the Jehovah’s Witnesses equivalent of Roman Catholic priests.5 In order to be appointed an elder, a person must first be a Minsterial Servant in good standing. Top-down, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, or, “Watchtower,” as the parent-organization is known, is controlled by the Governing Body of eight elders, essentially the board of directors for Watchtower.  Below the Governing Body are circuits generally comprised of 20 to 22 congregations.  Below the circuit-level are local congregations, each managed by a body of elders, who select candidates for becoming elders and ministerial servants. Watchtower’s own documents and policies elucidate the institution’s agency relationship with its elders and ministerial servants, and reveal the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ own perception that a duty arises from those relationships. For example, in another California child sex abuse case, Watchtower produced a July 20, 1998 letter in which the organization admonishes All Bodies of Elders against appointing child sex abusers as elders or ministerial servants because, “this could result in costly lawsuits. . . . [C]ourt officials and lawyers will hold responsible any organization that knowingly appoints former child abusers to positions of trust, if one of these, thereafter, commits a further act of child abuse.” The letter concedes, “[t]hose who are appointed to privileges of services, such as elders and ministerial servants, are put in a position of trust. . . .this includes being more liberal in leaving children in their care and oversight.” As for any attempt to mitigate the role of ministerial servants as compared to elders, the Watchtower policy manual, “Organized to do Jehovah’s Will,” instructs that ministerial servants are authorized to perform tasks otherwise reserved for elders, when an elder is unavailable, such as: (1) conduct Congregation Book Study; (2) handle Service Meetings; (3) handle parts of the Theocratic Ministry School; and (4) deliver public talks in the local congregation. Based on the above, courts have been persuaded that Jehovah’s Witnesses congregations are liable for “violat[ing] [a] duty,” when a clergy sex abuse victim’s parents were “congregants, who in deciding to permit [the perpetrator] into their home reasonably relied on his status as an appointed ministerial servant as well as on his good standing and reputation within the congregation. . . .”13 In addition to the above, the California Court of Appeal rejected the notion that a plaintiff failed to sufficiently allege proximate cause when the sexual abuse had occurred off congregation premises, mainly relying on a respondeat superior discussion in Comment C to the Restatement (3d) of Agency § 7.05: “causation may not be present when the harm occurs outside the work environment. It does not reflect that causation cannot be found when the harm occurs outside the work environment.” Understanding the structure, history, and policies of the Jehovah’s Witnesses is important for proving the parentinstitution’s liability in a child sex abuse case; but this is just a start.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

https://answersingenesis.org/adam-and-eve/genetics-confirms-recent-supernatural-creation-adam-and-eve/
 

What is funny @César Chávez  is that you talk about " living a Christian life was too hard and not what you expected, because you lost certain human freedoms, especially those practiced in today's world of debauchery? "
But when some one turns that full circle and mentions that the JW org is full of immorality, you don't like it. 
This whole JW thing about the whole world being wicked, is wrong. The idea that everyone who is not a JW is part of a wicked world, is wrong.  The idea that JWs can be neutrel but no one else can, is wrong.  I'm sure there are many people that are not JWs but are good honest people with good moral standards. 
I think this scripture is very important. Romans 2 from v 14
For when people of the nations, who do not have law, do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. 15  They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them, and by their own thoughts they are being accused or even excused. 16  This will take place in the day when God through Christ Jesus judges the secret things of mankind, according to the good news I declare.
This is talking about people in the 'world' that you and others accuse of being so wicked. But by being pure of heart they prove they have God's law written in their hearts. And that has nothing to de with being a JW. 

What a very sad and un-Christian outlook and judgement of people.  Your true colours xero. And you say you are an Elder. You must run a very sad congregation.
The Jews had God but they were immoral. The JW Org pretends to have God's approval, but the Org is immoral. 
Now as you and others think the scriptures are for everyone. Take a few lessons from this.
Matthew 5 from verse 44
However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, 45  so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. 46  For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? 47  And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? 48  You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
1, Love your enemies, and those who persecute you;
2, Jesus was making it clear here that people do love their own families. 
So, if you 'are' a Christian then think on scripture before being so unkind to others. 
 

..."listening" to all this is better than the old 1950's Soap Opera TV shows, where pained expressions in close-up camera angles were accompanied by an off camera Organist providing the emphasis.
...at least back then you could get a free kitchen towel in every box of detergent ....

Now that is funny, coming from a so called JW that belongs to an immoral Org. 

I don't know what point you are trying to make, but "fellow citizens with the saints" is the merging of physical Gentiles with physical Jews to become one anointed flock under Jesus Christ. These, are spiritual "Israel".  
 So, then, remember that at one time you were Gentiles in the flesh—called “the uncircumcised” by those called “the circumcised,” which is done in the flesh by human hands. 12 At that time you were without Christ, excluded from the citizenship of Israel, and foreigners to the covenants of promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus, you who were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who made both groups one and tore down the dividing wall of hostility. In his flesh, 15 he made of no effect the law consisting of commands and expressed in regulations, so that he might create in himself one new man from the two, resulting in peace.  Eph 2:11-15
 

1 Corinthians 12 : 12 & 13 
 For just as the body is one but has many members, and all the members of that body, although many, are one body, so too is the Christ. 13  For by one spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink one spirit.
THIS IS THE ANOINTED
1 Corinthians 12 : 18
 But now God has arranged each of the body members just as he pleased.
THIS IS STILL THE ANOINTED 
The whole of that scripture is about the Anointed.  I'm sorry that JWs don't have the spiritual wisdom to understand that.