Pudgy

It’s not so much the tying of the shoes, but getting the head unstuck from the water bucket.

In Land Surveying it works the same way in spatial location as in temporal location.
You have to have solid data in both systems to fit “System A” to “System B”, and only then can you translate and rotate so there are no gaps or overlap.
Without a solid “benchmark” in BOTH systems, your data will not match.

Oh, it’s nothing like in the closed club. Their lack of understanding is so great they barely know how to tie their shoes.

The only way I've found any historians able to date with any certainty events in the past is when the initial recorders were accurate as to both the astronomical events these were seeing as well as the events which were occurring at the same time. Without the astronomical events you don't have any precision. Of course I'm referring to dates prior to our Common Era.

… and, Georgie, if your reading comprehension was not so blinded by your Agenda, you would have read that my explaining my downvote had NOTHING to do with you … it was a common courtesy I felt was necessary.
Me … not you.
Knowing your propensity to misunderstand everything, I half-expected a protest against horseshoes.

Jehovah’s name and sovereignty cannot be “tarnished”.  
The opinions and ideas and slanders of mentally ill earthworms cannot tarnish humans.
Same thing.
The Sovereign Creator of the Universe is not a pouty liberal snowflake.

I downvoted you, which I seldom do so it behooves me to give an explanation.
You are so clueless it’s embarrassing to read your posts!
It is NOT considered “cruel and unusual punishment” to execute people for crimes. It is considered “cruel and unusual punishment” to deny communications and citizenship to anyone, no matter how heinous they break the rules.  
Humans need the connections to other humans, same as food, water and air. Take Vitamin C out of a human’s diet and he WILL DIE , slowly and very painfully, his body disintegrating and falling apart. 
The same with disfellowshipping for matters that are not true, clear and present, REAL, emergencies.
That’s why Jesus gave instructions in Matthew 18 EXACTLY how to do it.
Do JWs do it that way?
… not even close.
The problem is … historically, organized religions and their minions LOVE a witch hunt.

It’s not about you, Georgie ……

…. could be worse …. could be Hillary Clinton in a pants suit ….

It’s not about you, Georgie ……

One thing I have learned … Judges and Government officials msy be wrong, but THEY have the bayonets.
Some things just have to be endured.

The submerged iceberg, of which it is tempting to focus on the visible tip, is the Norwegian judge’s words that he finds it ‘reasonable that boyfriends and girlfriends are going to have sex with one another.’ Make no mistake that if he didn’t find it ‘reasonable,’ as previous generations have not, he would be more amenable to the Witnesses’ discipline. He might still find it severe, but he would not likely find it illegal.
But he has acquiesced to a new norm like that of my extended family, in which a 14-year-old daughter dates a 16-year-old who has his drivers’ license. As long as they are home by 9 PM, not a problem. ‘He’s a good kid,’ they say of him. And, as kids go, he probably is.  But, forget about Bible principles.
The challenge, which can be expected to increase, is to navigate Jehovah’s organization amidst a world that disdains the values it stand for, that considers Bible morality backwards and even harmful, and that begins to concoct laws against it.
Even Matthew raises no objection to this. Maybe he doesn’t know of the judge’s words. Maybe he knows but blows them off as nothing, joining the church world insistent upon retaining the label ‘Christian’ but not so insistent upon the conduct that identifies a person as one, being more outraged over discipline than the immoral conduct that calls for it.
Suicide is bad, so it is right if the Christian organization takes it seriously, modifying procedures, perhaps partly for that reason. It’s all good and welcome. Be proactive as you can. Many things done can be done differently. Many things can be tweaked to take into account changing times. It appears this is happening.
But it should also be kept in mind that suicide is all the rage among the young today. They have inherited an impossible world from older generations (who also do not apologize for it) and many of them break under the strain.
When my wife and I visited Ithaca, we passed a bridge on which obscenities were painted about Cornell, presumably due to the suicides that take place, some by jumping off that bridge. Ought Cornell be held liable for putting so much pressure upon young people? Or ought their parents be held liable, for pressuring the importance of ‘success’ at all costs? Anyone apologize for handing them such a world?
Or what of this young person crying because she works at a good job and cannot afford rent. Just like that, it goes up by $900 in a month and she can no longer afford to eat.. Anyone apologize to her over that?
https://www.dailydot.com/news/woman-has-to-cut-back-on-eating/
Or adults create AI, and just like that, it is used against children, deep-faking them naked and in sexual acts. No apologies there, either. Schools themselves are nightmares to attend, at least in the U.S, where bullying without consequence runs rampant, and yet students are sentenced into such unsafe places—it’s not as though they can opt out. Any apologies? Not only is there not, but there is a steady stream of people with degrees telling of how they are about to turn the situation around, just as they were 40 years ago.
It is a pretty lengthy list of how today’s world has absolutely failed its young people, and many of them take their lives over it.
As ‘repressive’ as some Witness families might be, as much as some might view them as ‘hemming people in,’ they are also sources of support and stability. You do not want to cut yourself off from your family. But the young today are encouraged to do just that, cut themselves off from where there is a safety net to leap to where there is not. All a young person must do is abide by family rules, while they are living with family, and they are fine. Previous generations, for the most part, have recognized and supported this basic fact of human life. The present one does not, and is being encouraged to not recognize and recognize  it by people who will not be there to break  a young person’s fall should they take one.
As much as I hear that Jehovah’s Witnesses are ‘insular,’ they can’t hold a candle to the insularity of those who oppose them. To hear the latter carry on, you would think the present world is a paradise and all would know it were it not for ‘scare’ tactics of the Witnesses. 
 

So even without checking out any astronomy, just from the tablets alone, we would get exactly the same as "Ptolemy's Canon." We'd get the same length and order of all the kings' reigns.

The criticism of "larchwood" is now irrelevant, as are any former members or witnesses trying to make a fuss over nothing. The times have indeed changed.

I downvoted you, which I seldom do so it behooves me to give an explanation.
You are so clueless it’s embarrassing to read your posts!
It is NOT considered “cruel and unusual punishment” to execute people for crimes. It is considered “cruel and unusual punishment” to deny communications and citizenship to anyone, no matter how heinous they break the rules.  
Humans need the connections to other humans, same as food, water and air. Take Vitamin C out of a human’s diet and he WILL DIE , slowly and very painfully, his body disintegrating and falling apart. 
The same with disfellowshipping for matters that are not true, clear and present, REAL, emergencies.
That’s why Jesus gave instructions in Matthew 18 EXACTLY how to do it.
Do JWs do it that way?
… not even close.
The problem is … historically, organized religions and their minions LOVE a witch hunt.

@Pudgy
I was notified. I have no interest in your baseless criticism, so at what point did you think that I would be concerned about how frequently you downvote my comments? Opinions are plentiful, and I have no intention of valuing or acknowledging any in this place, especially those that are apostate.

I downvoted you, which I seldom do so it behooves me to give an explanation.
You are so clueless it’s embarrassing to read your posts!
It is NOT considered “cruel and unusual punishment” to execute people for crimes. It is considered “cruel and unusual punishment” to deny communications and citizenship to anyone, no matter how heinous they break the rules.  
Humans need the connections to other humans, same as food, water and air. Take Vitamin C out of a human’s diet and he WILL DIE , slowly and very painfully, his body disintegrating and falling apart. 
The same with disfellowshipping for matters that are not true, clear and present, REAL, emergencies.
That’s why Jesus gave instructions in Matthew 18 EXACTLY how to do it.
Do JWs do it that way?
… not even close.
The problem is … historically, organized religions and their minions LOVE a witch hunt.

I think it was around 2018 when I read a news report about a meeting of ex-JWs and non-JW relatives of Witnesses. They met somewhere around Seattle. Several of the attendees supposedly gave reports of suicides among disfellowshipped and shunned teenagers. (And I think there were cases of suicides among those who had suffered sexual abuse either in the congregation or from Witness parents.)
I'm sure you are right that it was more than just the shunning that drove them to suicide, but they definitely were presenting a pattern that indicated shunning as a key factor. It was likely exaggerated somewhat, but the report indicated that shunning and suicide became kind of a theme, and there were about a dozen such cases mentioned. It's probably a serious enough problem that the WTS is right now trying to address this issue by making changes to the process of disfellowshipping teenagers.

I find this intriguing from the standpoint of someone questioning their beliefs. Could you please share a compelling instance where a young person tragically took their own life as a result of being shunned, rather than being overwhelmed by the isolation imposed on them by society?
Hence, should those individuals who exaggerate and falsely profess nonsensical ideologies not be deserving of eternal damnation?
Should society be condemned to eternal punishment by a self-proclaimed Christian for the tragic suicides resulting from bullying at school?
https://journalistsresource.org/education/bullying-teen-suicide-social-media-research/
Understanding the distinction regarding an imbalanced state of mind is crucial. It is imperative to acquire the knowledge of comprehending such a concept.
I also know of someone who took their own life after being rejected by society for being a member of the LGBTQ community. The term "shunning" should not be misused to promote harmful behavior, particularly when it comes from a religious individual.

I've known young people who committed suicide after being shunned/disfellowshipped. I was one of those who tried to kill himself after being disassociated several years ago. I've talked with dozens of young disfellowshipped ones. In the past 30 years I've talked with parents of children who committed suicide due to being disfellowshipped. I wanted to share this....
How are they going to address the parents of young people that committed suicide after being disfellowshipped or marked? IMO the parent should sue the governing body for emotional manipulation and emotional distress for forcing them to cut off their own children, even grown children. That includes children who died from their parents refusing blood transfusions, knowing they could be disfellowshipped or shunned or marked for doing so. Or the thousands of x'jws who fell into chemical addictions, dying due to chemical addictions!!!! To deal with the loss of their entire social structure!!!!!!!? And the worse...the tens of thousands of disfellowshipped/disassociated/marked ones who left God all together, like I once did?   Being allowed to grow a beard, or women being allowed to wear pants during services, so fucking what!!!! That's nice, I've never come across someone killing themselves because they couldn't grow a beard or wear pants. The Governing Body needs to shell out a major apology for their previous stance on disfellowshipping, and I mean a huge fucking apology!!!! The blood of others is not soley on the governing bodies hands, but on the hands of the rank and file who did everything the governing body told them to do. Which was to totally isolate those young people from their social network, even their parents.   Sorry jw's, PIMI, it's too late for these changes, you are already blood guilty, you deserve to go to hell, with your governing body.

OHHHHHhhhhh
NOooooOoo, 
a downvote from Alphonse … what EVER SHALL I DO? 
Just thinking about it gives me the VAPORS!
( flutters eyelashes rapidly ….)

…
…. It just occurred to me!
The subliminal hidden message with the Norwegian red white and blue “flag tie” is NOT FOR JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES!
… IT’S FOR THE NORWEGIAN COURT SYSTEM OFFICIALS!

It just makes life easier when people don’t go kicking against the goads over every silly little thing. Save your kicking for when it is important. 
Nathaniel Hawthorne put it this way in The Scarlet Letter: “It is remarkable that persons who speculate the most boldly often conform with the most perfect quietude to the external regulations of society.”
Nobody speculates more boldly than Jehovah’s Witnesses, who, in the main, are able to “conform with the most perfect quietude to the external regulations of society.”
This can result in dumb situations in which people resist innocuous trends in the greater world because nobody wants to be the first to upset the status quo. In such cases, people quite reasonably look to examples from those taking the lead, It is sort of sheeplike behavior, but then—what does the Bible say about sheep? 
We’re clearing out a lot of nonsense now that you might have hoped would have been cleared out long ago. Times change. If you can change with them without sacrificing any core principles, that’s the thing to do. It makes life easier. You find yourself not taking a hard stand over things that don’t matter. 
I don’t think the GB particularly like saying, ‘Okay, now you can do this or that.’ But apparently they have come to feel sheeplike people need that from time to time. In 2017, they said beards are fine where local norms don’t get in the way. I think they were surprised that no one took them up on it, necessitating a GB update complete with bells, whistles, video history, and chariot:
https://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2023/12/beards-get-the-green-light.html
 

…
…. It just occurred to me!
The subliminal hidden message with the Norwegian red white and blue “flag tie” is NOT FOR JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES!
… IT’S FOR THE NORWEGIAN COURT SYSTEM OFFICIALS!

…
…. It just occurred to me!
The subliminal hidden message with the Norwegian red white and blue “flag tie” is NOT FOR JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES!
… IT’S FOR THE NORWEGIAN COURT SYSTEM OFFICIALS!