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Matthew9969

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I've known young people who committed suicide after being shunned/disfellowshipped. I was one of those who tried to kill himself after being disassociated several years ago. I've talked with dozens of young disfellowshipped ones. In the past 30 years I've talked with parents of children who committed suicide due to being disfellowshipped. I wanted to share this....

How are they going to address the parents of young people that committed suicide after being disfellowshipped or marked? IMO the parent should sue the governing body for emotional manipulation and emotional distress for forcing them to cut off their own children, even grown children. That includes children who died from their parents refusing blood transfusions, knowing they could be disfellowshipped or shunned or marked for doing so.
Or the thousands of x'jws who fell into chemical addictions, dying due to chemical addictions!!!! To deal with the loss of their entire social structure!!!!!!!?
And the worse...the tens of thousands of disfellowshipped/disassociated/marked ones who left God all together, like I once did?
 
Being allowed to grow a beard, or women being allowed to wear pants during services, so fucking what!!!! That's nice, I've never come across someone killing themselves because they couldn't grow a beard or wear pants. The Governing Body needs to shell out a major apology for their previous stance on disfellowshipping, and I mean a huge fucking apology!!!! The blood of others is not soley on the governing bodies hands, but on the hands of the rank and file who did everything the governing body told them to do. Which was to totally isolate those young people from their social network, even their parents.
 
Sorry jw's, PIMI, it's too late for these changes, you are already blood guilty, you deserve to go to hell, with your governing body.
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I think it was around 2018 when I read a news report about a meeting of ex-JWs and non-JW relatives of Witnesses. They met somewhere around Seattle. Several of the attendees supposedly gave reports of

I find this intriguing from the standpoint of someone questioning their beliefs. Could you please share a compelling instance where a young person tragically took their own life as a result of being s

I downvoted you, which I seldom do so it behooves me to give an explanation. You are so clueless it’s embarrassing to read your posts! It is NOT considered “cruel and unusual punishment” to

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I find this intriguing from the standpoint of someone questioning their beliefs. Could you please share a compelling instance where a young person tragically took their own life as a result of being shunned, rather than being overwhelmed by the isolation imposed on them by society?

Hence, should those individuals who exaggerate and falsely profess nonsensical ideologies not be deserving of eternal damnation?

Should society be condemned to eternal punishment by a self-proclaimed Christian for the tragic suicides resulting from bullying at school?

https://journalistsresource.org/education/bullying-teen-suicide-social-media-research/

Understanding the distinction regarding an imbalanced state of mind is crucial. It is imperative to acquire the knowledge of comprehending such a concept.

I also know of someone who took their own life after being rejected by society for being a member of the LGBTQ community. The term "shunning" should not be misused to promote harmful behavior, particularly when it comes from a religious individual.

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41 minutes ago, George88 said:

I find this intriguing from the standpoint of someone questioning their beliefs. Could you please share a compelling instance where a young person tragically took their own life as a result of being shunned, rather than being overwhelmed by the isolation imposed on them by society?

I think it was around 2018 when I read a news report about a meeting of ex-JWs and non-JW relatives of Witnesses. They met somewhere around Seattle. Several of the attendees supposedly gave reports of suicides among disfellowshipped and shunned teenagers. (And I think there were cases of suicides among those who had suffered sexual abuse either in the congregation or from Witness parents.)

I'm sure you are right that it was more than just the shunning that drove them to suicide, but they definitely were presenting a pattern that indicated shunning as a key factor. It was likely exaggerated somewhat, but the report indicated that shunning and suicide became kind of a theme, and there were about a dozen such cases mentioned. It's probably a serious enough problem that the WTS is right now trying to address this issue by making changes to the process of disfellowshipping teenagers.

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1 hour ago, George88 said:

I find this intriguing from the standpoint of someone questioning their beliefs. Could you please share a compelling instance where a young person tragically took their own life as a result of being shunned, rather than being overwhelmed by the isolation imposed on them by society?

Hence, should those individuals who exaggerate and falsely profess nonsensical ideologies not be deserving of eternal damnation?

Should society be condemned to eternal punishment by a self-proclaimed Christian for the tragic suicides resulting from bullying at school?

https://journalistsresource.org/education/bullying-teen-suicide-social-media-research/

Understanding the distinction regarding an imbalanced state of mind is crucial. It is imperative to acquire the knowledge of comprehending such a concept.

I also know of someone who took their own life after being rejected by society for being a member of the LGBTQ community. The term "shunning" should not be misused to promote harmful behavior, particularly when it comes from a religious individual.

I downvoted you, which I seldom do so it behooves me to give an explanation.

You are so clueless it’s embarrassing to read your posts!

It is NOT considered “cruel and unusual punishment” to execute people for crimes. It is considered “cruel and unusual punishment” to deny communications and citizenship to anyone, no matter how heinous they break the rules.  

Humans need the connections to other humans, same as food, water and air. Take Vitamin C out of a human’s diet and he WILL DIE , slowly and very painfully, his body disintegrating and falling apart. 

The same with disfellowshipping for matters that are not true, clear and present, REAL, emergencies.

That’s why Jesus gave instructions in Matthew 18 EXACTLY how to do it.

Do JWs do it that way?

… not even close.

The problem is … historically, organized religions and their minions LOVE a witch hunt.

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For example, secondhand information, such as what a past poster heard but did not witness regarding child abuse, may be considered acceptable by uninformed individuals. However, it falls short in terms of reliability even for secular authorities. Personally, I believe that gossip should not be treated as a trustworthy source unless it is substantiated by solid evidence.
Therefore, unless you were present to witness the instance of a young person taking their own life due to religious shunning, then you should provide evidence.

However, the information provided by Matthew, Pudgy's sock puppet, is completely meaningless. You must provide conclusive evidence disproving the existence of any other mitigating factors associated with the suicide, such as mental illness.

Unless you are a doctor or psychiatrist, I don't believe anyone here is qualified to give a professional opinion.
Therefore, discussing the disfellowship policy does not provide a clear basis for shunning that meets the criteria for being a direct cause of suicide that has been proven in a court of law. It should not be assumed by individuals identifying as JWs. Making baseless accusations can lead to being disfellowshipped, so it might be wise to keep one's thoughts to oneself.

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@Pudgy

I was notified. I have no interest in your baseless criticism, so at what point did you think that I would be concerned about how frequently you downvote my comments? Opinions are plentiful, and I have no intention of valuing or acknowledging any in this place, especially those that are apostate.

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Perhaps, someday, in the far distant future, somewhere around Armageddon or World War III, the Governing Body will decide that they are going to follow the instructions that Jesus gave on how the Congregation should be governed and operated … as detailed exactly In Matthew the 18th chapter.

Then … Freedom and Liberty and Justice will be proclaimed throughout the land, and there will be life everlasting in the Freedom of the adopted sons of God.

 

7D39E7F3-88B8-4855-93B7-B570CF39D68B.jpeg

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The issue was never about me "pudgy"; it was about the public being misled by apostates and individuals claiming to be Jehovah's witnesses. They are tarnishing Jehovah's name and sovereignty with their misguided actions.

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Jehovah’s name and sovereignty cannot be “tarnished”.  

The opinions and ideas and slanders of mentally ill earthworms cannot tarnish humans.

Same thing.

The Sovereign Creator of the Universe is not a pouty liberal snowflake.

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… and, Georgie, if your reading comprehension was not so blinded by your Agenda, you would have read that my explaining my downvote had NOTHING to do with you … it was a common courtesy I felt was necessary.

Me … not you.

16 hours ago, Pudgy said:

I downvoted you, which I seldom do so it behooves me to give an explanation.

Knowing your propensity to misunderstand everything, I half-expected a protest against horseshoes.

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    • An interesting concept, bible discipline. I am struck by the prevalence of ignorance about spiritual discipline on "Reddit." While physical and mental disciplines receive attention, the profound impact of spiritual discipline on a person's physical and mental well-being is often overlooked. Is it possible to argue against the words of the Apostle Paul? When he penned those words in Hebrews 12, he was recognizing that there are moments when an individual must be "rebuked" in order to be corrected. Even Jesus himself established a precedent when he rebuked Peter and referred to him as Satan for failing to comprehend what Jesus had already revealed to the apostles. Did that imply that Jesus had an evil heart? Not at all, it was quite the opposite; Jesus had a loving heart. His need to correct Peter actually showcased his genuine love for him. If he hadn't cared, he would have let Peter persist in his mistaken ways, leading to a fate similar to Judas'. There is a clear emphasis on avoiding the apostate translation and its meaning, yet many seem to overlook the biblical foundation for the reasons NOT to follow the path of the fallen brethren or those with an apostate mentality. Those individuals have embraced the path of darkness, where the illuminating power of light cannot penetrate, to avoid receiving the righteous discipline based on God's Bible teachings. They are undoubtedly aware that this undeniable truth of life must be disregarded in order to uphold their baseless justifications for the unjust act of shunning. Can anyone truly "force" someone or stop them from rejecting a friend or family member? Such a notion would be absurd, considering the fact that we all have the power of free will. If a Witness decides to distance themselves from a family member or friend simply because they have come out as gay, who is anyone within the organization to question or challenge that personal sentiment? It is unfortunate that there are individuals, both within and outside the organization, who not only lack a proper understanding of the Bible but also dare to suggest that God's discipline is barbaric. We must remember that personal choices should be respected, and it is not for others to judge or condemn someone based on their sexual orientation but should be avoided under biblical grounds. No one should have the power to compel an individual to change their sexual orientation, nor should anyone be forced to accept someone for who they are. When it comes to a family's desire to shield their children from external influences, who has the right to challenge the parents' decision? And if a family's rejection of others is based on cultural factors rather than religious beliefs, who can impose religious judgment on them? Who should true followers of Christ follow? The words of God or those who believe they can change God's laws to fit their lives? How can we apply the inspired words of Paul from God to embrace the reality of God's discipline? On the contrary, how can nonconformists expect to persuade those with a "worldview" that their religious beliefs are unacceptable by ostracizing individuals, when God condemns homosexuality? This is precisely why the arguments put forth by ex-witnesses are lacking in their pursuit of justice. When they employ misguided tactics, justice remains elusive as their arguments are either weak or inconsistent with biblical standards. Therefore, it is crucial to also comprehend Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 9:27. The use of the word "shun" is being exaggerated and excessively condemned by those who reject biblical shunning as a form of punishment. Eph 5:3-14 NIV 3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person — such a man is an idolater — has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.  6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.  8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible. The impact of the message becomes significantly stronger when we emphasize the importance of avoiding any association with unrighteousness and those who remain unrepentant. In fact, it becomes even more compelling when we witness how some individuals, who dismiss biblical shunning as a method of discipline, excessively criticize and condemn the use of the word "shun". Therefore, Jehovah's Witnesses do not shun people; instead, they choose to focus on the negative actions being committed, which is in accordance with biblical teachings. This should be construed as ex-Witness rhetoric. Now, let's consider why ex-Witnesses specifically target one particular religion. What justifications do they provide when other Christian denominations also adhere to the same principle grounded in the Bible? Chapter 1 - Preface Both must therefore test themselves: the one, if he is qualified to speak and leave behind him written records; the other, if he is in a right state to hear and read: as also some in the dispensation of the Eucharist, according to  custom enjoin that each one of the people individually should take his part. One's own conscience is best for choosing accurately or shunning. And its firm foundation is a right life, with suitable instruction. But the imitation of those who have already been proved, and who have led correct lives, is most excellent for the understanding and practice of the commandments. "So that whosoever shall eat the bread and drink the cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup."  It therefore follows, that every one of those who undertake to promote the good of their neighbours, ought to consider whether he has betaken himself to teaching rashly and out of rivalry to any; if his communication of the word is out of vainglory; if the the only reward he reaps is the salvation of those who hear, and if he speaks not in order to win favour: if so, he who speaks by writings escapes the reproach of mercenary motives. "For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know," says the apostle, "nor a cloak of covetousness. God is witness. Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome as the apostles of Christ. But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children."   (from Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 2) Divine promises 2. The manner of shunning, in the word escaping. There is a flying away required, and that quickly, as in the plague, or from a fire which hath almost burned us, or a flood that breaketh in upon us. We cannot soon enough escape from sin (Matt 3:7; Heb 6:18). No motion but flight becomes us in this case. Doctrine: That the great end and effect of the promises of the gospel is to make us partakers of the Divine nature. (from The Biblical Illustrator)  
    • Clearly, they are already demanding your exile. Yes! It's unfortunate that Pudgy spoiled a great discussion about science. I hope the discussion can continue without any more nonsensical interruptions. Just a suggestion since they are on your heels. Wow! You speak! It seems you have a lot to say! Now they are going to treat like, who do you think you are, mister big stuff! Are those aliens now going to imply that anyone who speaks out against the five or six key contributors to this site will be treated as though it is George just because those in opposition speak the language they hate to hear, the TRUTH? They are seeking individuals who will embrace their nonconformist values and appreciate what they can offer in shaping public opinion contrary to the established agenda of God and Christ. Their goal is to enhance their writing abilities and avoid squandering time on frivolous pursuits, mainly arguing about the truth they don't care for. They see it all as a mere game, even when leading people astray. They believe they have every right to and will face no biblical repercussions, or so they believe. They just want to have fun just like that Cyndi Lauper song. Be prepared to be belittled and ridiculed, all the while they claim to be angels. Haha! By the way, please refrain from using the same language as George. They appear to believe that when others use the same words, it means they are the same person, and they emphasize this as if no one else is allowed to use similar grammar. It seems they think only they have the right to use the same or similar writing styles. Quite amusing, isn't it? See, what I just placed in bold, now I'm George, lol! Now, let's leave this nice science thread for people that want to know more about science. I believe George left it at "Zero Distance."  
    • Nice little thread you’ve got going here, SciTech. It would be a shame if something were to happen to it.
    • It's truly disheartening when someone who is supposed to be a friend of the exclusive group resorts to using profanity in their comments, just like other members claiming to be witnesses. It's quite a ludicrous situation for the public to witness.  Yet, the "defense" of such a person, continues. 
    • No. However, I would appreciate if you do not reveal to all and sundry the secret meeting place of the closed club. (I do feel someone bad stomping on Sci’s little thread. But I see that has already happened.)
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