Am 15.3.2022 um 19:48 schrieb Matthew9969:

Still waiting for your 3rd party truth.

So again, please provide proof jw's are helping non-jw's and/or working with other religious organizations to provide aide to all.

After several people (including me) told you, that JWs don't do this, no one will provide proof or evidence for what we are claiming is not happening.

Also we gave several good reasons for not doing what you want: you ignored the Biblical admonition to FIRST help your own brothers in faith. Do you think we should do what is written in Galatians 6:10 or not?

Also we are in a situation where the whole European Union is overwhelmed with refugees. How do you expect a small number of JWs to handle a situation, that some of the richest nations of the world with more than 400million people can't handle? And since we can't handle the whole situation, what is wrong with helping your own friends first?

Am 15.3.2022 um 19:48 schrieb Matthew9969:

 Most of the individual soldiers I believe mostly are Catholic,

Which show that you are hopelessly uninformed about the whole situation. Only a small percentage of the population (and soldiers) on both sides are catholic.

Am 15.3.2022 um 19:48 schrieb Matthew9969:

It would be horrifying if each individual denomination would only help their own specific denomination, and much more chaotic.

More chaotic than it is? Millions of people with nowhere to go and next to no organized effort by some of the richest countries in the world to help them? And you think it would get less chaotic it 200.000 JWs would organize 3million refugees over night? Excuse me, but you say this so much without any knowledge, what is going on here, that I can't seriously discuss this with you.

Am 15.3.2022 um 19:48 schrieb Matthew9969:

Well you guys aren't doing much in stopping war or stopping people from killing others,

175.000 JWs in Russia didn't take part in the invasion. Who is doing more to stop the war?

Am 15.3.2022 um 19:48 schrieb Matthew9969:

heck even some of your own brothers have killed innocent people, even pregnant women and children.

Huh?

Am 15.3.2022 um 19:48 schrieb Matthew9969:

When I started a bible study again several years back, my conductor at the time and I discussed 9-11. He made a very strong statement that if there was a natural disaster and if he saw his neighbors house damaged and heard his neighbor screaming for help, he had to ignore the neighbor and do what ever he could to reach an elder and head straight to the kingdom hall. I had a problem with this reasoning and so he told me I would have to agree to this too if I was interested in progressing any further.

I don't know if you misunderstood your study conductor or if he misunderstood what JWs are saying. But JWs don't teach this.

Am 15.3.2022 um 19:48 schrieb Matthew9969:

Lastly, the jw's are an off shoot of the bible students, which were an off shoot of 7th day Adventist. Even jw's have had different denominations stream from them, so jw's aren't an exclusive group.

I let you answer this for you:

Am 15.3.2022 um 19:48 schrieb Matthew9969:

 your deflecting the conversation into other subjects.

vor 15 Minuten schrieb TrueTomHarley:

 

Only this bit of hyperbole undermines the remark some:

They’re usually not “happy” about it.

On reflection you are right. That was my frustration speaking

vor 17 Stunden schrieb Matthew9969:

Help for Ukraine: 20+ charities on the frontlines - National Christian Foundation (ncfgiving.com)

Myself and my church give to some of these charities, and as you notice they don't limit their aide.

I don't doubt there exist charities. I don't even doubt that they are doing something to help. I doubt, that your criticism of JWs helping in their own way is justified.

There are about 200.000 JWs in the countries near Ukraine. It is absurd to believe, that they can accommodate 2.5million refugees. Yet you criticize them for not doing what clearly can't be done. In doing so you ignore the Bible (Galatians 6:10): "...let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith." Why would we ignore, what the Bible tells us?

And you ignored the point about the orthodox church. Trinitarian Christians have the belief in "one church" written into their apostolic confession of faith, but in reality they are happy to accept, that their "one Trinitarian church" is in reality divided into hundreds of churches along ethnic, racial, language borders and along theological disputes that they can't resolve for centuries. And they don't care that these groups are happily taking part in mass murder events called wars, where they destroy each other for the sake of their nations.

So they don't grasp the idea, that when the orthodox Christians from Russia are bombing Ukrainian cities, that it is the "one church" from their confession, that is taking part in murder and genocide of their own fellow believers. Ukrainians are not fleeing to Russia, because their Russian brothers from the same orthodox Trinitarian faith are out there to kill them. And Trinitarians seemingly are happy to ignore this problem. All the while JWs are persecuted in Russia exactly because they don't participate in this madness. If all Trinitarian Christians would behave as JWs, then there would not be any war in Ukraine and no one would have to flee.

In the light of this much larger problem I choose to ignore your criticism of how we handle the help of your fellow Trinitarians' victims. Trinitarians, go and do something about your fellow believers killing each other. And after you accomplished that, then you can come back and lecture us about how we should help their victims.

Am 11.3.2022 um 21:39 schrieb Matthew9969:

That is good, I'd love to read the news stories about the watchtower doing this, esp. working with other religious institutions.

I live in the u.s., and have to stay here to help my elderly jw mother. But I and my church have provided charity here and around the world....FOR FREE.

This doesn't answer my question: Where is your charity helping refugees from Ukraine in a better way than JWs? And if there isn't, why are you criticizing them?

And I think I'll ask you another question: Given that about 75% of all Ukrainians are orthodox Christians, why don't they flee to Russia and Belarus, where there is the world's largest community of orthodox Christians, probably more than 70million of them? That's a real and serious question that points at the elephant standing around in the room, being ignored by you.

Am 2.3.2022 um 20:43 schrieb Matthew9969:

Why not offer aide to any one, not just jw's?

While you criticize them, thousands of Witnesses here in Poland (and other countries) work literally day and night to help tens of thousands of refugees. For free.

Feel free to build up your own organization that helps refugees better and faster and more fairly.

No really, show me how you do this better in the real world, not just in a discussion on the internet.

It's so easy to complain, that JWs are not perfect. It's not easy (in this case at least) to do much better. I don't see that you at least try.

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Pudgy:

Why would any sane person have 5 of 8 million Brothers write 48 million letters, each at international postage rates, to lobby the outcome of a Russian kangaroo  court system, where the outcome was decided (obviously, to all sane people ….), BEFORE the trial started?

One point before answerig the question: Why would a sane person knowing the points that are contained in your question,  ask for a costly translation of court transcripts that obviously are without worth when taking into account your points?

Or more directly: Why do you ask for a costly translation of court transcripts that you yourself think worthless?

Now answering the question: The question contains an obviously false assumption: No one thought this to be an effort to lobby the outcome of a court trial or some sort of bribe. No one really thought that these letters would convince the Russian government to stop persecuting their peaceful JW citicens. No one did really suggest that it would do this.

The letter, where the Governing Body asked the JW to write those letters contained the following goals:

1. drawing international attention to the situation.

2. giving evidence of one's love for their brothers in Russsia

3. support fellow Christians who face persecution

Since these goals are obviously sensible and were achieved by the campaign there is no need to look for other hidden agendas that contain obviously not sensible reasons.

Am 26.9.2021 um 07:27 schrieb Pudgy:

Why doesn't the Society translate and provide the Russian Court Transcripts for us?

This question makes one huge assumption: In Russia court transcripts exist und get published. I couldn't find any hint, that this is a fact. And if there are no court transscripts, then the answer is simple: you can't translate, what doesn't exist.

Leaving this question aside: if there are court transscripts, then there is the question: why would any sane person take the trouble and translate thousands of pages of court transscripts? Translating costs money. In the case of these court transscripts this can easily be several ten thousands dollars and many months of work even taking into account the JW translating facilities.

But: No one pays them. The translators are volunteers and part of an organisation of volunteers. They work on what they as an organisation think is important. For them providing translations of transscripts that they think are an obvious part of a sham is just not high on the priority list.

So why on earth would they leave much more important translating work (from their point of view) lying around to satisfy the curiosity of a handful of people on the other side of the planet? The answer is: they don't think, that they should work for months just for the sake of someone sitting around on the internet. Their advise would probably be: If you want to know what is written in these transscripts then use your time to learn Russian and read it for yourself or pay a translator for yourself.

This last point would be really easy if there were a real demand for this translation: On the internet you could easily find those people with a crowdfunding page. The money for the translator would be provided by them in no time if they cared. The absence of such a page and people giving their money to such a page indicates that really no one cares enough for those transcripts to get translated (or that they don't exist to get translated .

This probably sound harsher than I mean it but I'm not that good expressing myself in my third language.

Am 1.6.2021 um 11:10 schrieb Srecko Sostar:

 So the question that is still relevant is: What do the leaders of every church do to reduce and curb religious intolerance, especially while publicly announcing the suppression of every religious option other than their own?

I don't know about everyone else, but JW are constantly reminded, that we should love all people, even self declared enemies. And this works (within the bounds of human imperfection) for JW.

Am 1.6.2021 um 11:10 schrieb Srecko Sostar:

the religious animosity that develops in the feelings of members of one church towards another, on a global level, is certainly a display of intolerance. And that is the reality in all religions not just in the JW church.

I think you are mixing several incompatible ideas: You like what you like and you (hopefully🙃) tolerate, what you don't like. So "religious animosity" as a feeling towards other religions cannot be "a display of intolerance": Only if someone starts hateful acts against what he doesn't like, intolerance starts. And while most religions show hateful acts against other religions that they don't like, JW don't go there.

Am 1.6.2021 um 11:10 schrieb Srecko Sostar:

To which group of tolerance does ignoring former members belong? To not say even simple hello on the street is strong proof and evidence how majority in JW organization are not only intolerant but show lack of everyday polite.

The kind of tolerance that let's other people do their thing without interfering, even if I don't like it. I'm not supposed to have to show support for stuff I don't like, do I?

Am 2.6.2021 um 06:39 schrieb Srecko Sostar:

 Every new born person on Earth should be able to choose between good and evil. So, according to such idea, evil and good would have to exist constantly in order for people to be able to choose and thus prove that they have "free will".

But Satan could choose evil in a world without evil, couldn't he? Doesn't that show, evil doesn't have to exist in order to choose it?

Am 2.6.2021 um 06:39 schrieb Srecko Sostar:

According to the current interpretation, WTJWorg's answers to questions about evil and why God allows evil to exist to this day, questions about God and the Devil, Good and Evil could be debated as long as there are people. So infinitely into the future. Because every new generation thinks it knows more and knows better. And since no generation lives forever, the evidence dies with them.

But "according to current interpretation" the generation that lives through the great tribulation will live forever. And they will be able to explain everyone, that they lived in an evil world that knowingly chose to self destruct by not stopping evil and even refused Jesus as their last hope when he came and they even fought him to the death for their "right to do evil". How can there be any serious discussions about that point any more after that? "Evil leads to an evil world, that destroys itself" will be the eternal message.

Am 6.6.2021 um 05:06 schrieb TrueTomHarley:

I rather like the Gary Larsen cartoon of the Devil fuming that his 666 room has been mislabeled 999, and the workman explains that he must have been holding the blueprint upside down.

Maybe that’s what hell is—not being able to find good help.

Or "Eric" by T. Pratchett, where every act of torment is preceded by (mandatory) reading out aloud ALL the safety regulations(!) (thousands of pages), which makes devils and tormented souls look ahead to the actual torment as some kind of relief.

12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Please, go on JWorg library and you will find publications that support conclusion and speak clearly how, in fact, JHVH will destroy all elements of "Old System".

Even if your conclusions were correct, saying, that some organisation(s) will get destroyed in the future is not an act of intolerance. As a reminder what intolerance looks like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGNTMNTKmsY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G-QEfdMH3Y

That is intolerance. And JW don't go there. Not even near. In fact they are as far removed from intolerance as possible.

12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Where does JW's tolerance of members of other religions begin and end, also about tolerance of own members in JW organization who changing their "spiritual vision/view"? How do you show tolerance for different religious beliefs or opposing beliefs in general?

I think you have your own definition of "tolerance" that differs quite a lot from the dictionary. What does "tolerance" mean in your dictionary?

12 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

YES CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE IN THE JW ORG IS COMPLETELY COMPARABLE TO TERROISM. BUT TO PEOPLE LIKE YOU IT IS JUST COLLATERAL DAMAGE.

Just trying to understand where you come from: were you sexually abused yourself? Or someone in your family?

On 5/29/2021 at 9:41 PM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Would falsely predicting Armageddon on many occasions just to frighten people into the Orgs, and would stating that a person MUST BE a baptised JW to be saved, count toward atrocities ? 

Would deliberately misusing the Romans 13 scripture to give power and authority to the Leaders of the Orgs be classed as an atrocity ?

Even imagining these accusations to be one hundred true, can any sane person say, that this is in the least comparable to flying planes into the WTC?

On 5/29/2021 at 7:00 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

 On one side JW gave picture of how tolerant they as people are, but in same time preaching how they worship intolerant God who will destroy them/other people because of their religion.

Funnily JW don't believe this. In our view God won't destroy any one religion....

Does a JW member "like" someone else's religion? If he liked it, he might become a member of such a religion. But the JW member only likes his religion, and towards others he does not have such a kind of tolerance nor does he have it in such quantity that he would “like it”.

Tolerance is not for stuff you like, it's for stuff you don't like. You don't have to tolerate your beloved partner but the pesky In-Laws.

OT records speaking about God who have no tolerance for false way of worshiping Him. Neither to worship some other God in different/opposite religion. And JW members also using such Bible verses to enforce and empower own religious attitude about this issue.

So do you think, that God is not allowed to judge, how to worship him? If p.e. some people burn their children as a sacrifice, then he has to tolerate that?