Evacuated

He was already committed wasn't he? He had accepted a leadership position if Jehovah gave him the victory over the Ammonites. Judges 11:8-11

Excellent! More chance for people to get the truth despite advanced years.

Bravo!!!

mistake. Should read as : unfaithful religious leadership.

Not sure he did as he worked against their interests. If by the establishment you mean Saul, then probably he may have had all sorts of distorted views about David, none of them true. I am sure Jonathan would not have shared the establishment's view. I would call him God's formerly anointed but now a rebellious reject. I can't see how David had any obligation to him at all at this time, other than his respect for Jehovah's right to remove him. So therefore I fail to see how David could be considered disloyal to Saul as king. Disloyalty implies an obligation. One has no obligation to an unfaithful or brother religious leadership, so I cannot see how loyalty/disloyalty to them comes into the equation. But then, that's just my view.

anomally = something that deviates from what is standard, normal, or expected. Your postings normally differ from the usual JW crticisms in being well reasoned and researched rather than the more common derisory or ad hominem rantings I have seen sometimes on this forum. Of course I see your point (similar to Act 5:29), I just do not think it applies here as I don't see David as being disloyal to Saul. It was Saul who was disloyal. Anyway, are you constructing an argument to show that the experience of ex-witnesses disfellowshipped for disagreeing with doctrinal matters which were later corrected in their favor is parallel to David's experience of being an outcast? (I am trying to line up with the first posting on this subject)

Sounds like an evolutionary science discussion

Very thorough article with an interesting acknowledgement: "it will never be known beyond doubt what type of instrument was used to execute Jesus."

This is a bit childish? I am stopping because I started.... Just used "we" out of respect. I'll rephrase as "I think I had better leave...." for the reason as stated. David was God's anointed king. 1Sam 16:13. Saul made David an outcast because of his own loss of God's favor and his intent to kill David. Now you are second guessing. I'm disappointed, I had come to expect anomaly.

I agree with the point about being an example of loyalty to Jehovah, but just can't see your point regarding being an outcast. At this time, Saul had already long been rejected by Jehovah and David had already been anointed before they even met each other. David was an outcast because Saul refused to accept that he (Saul) was no longer God's anointed king and that David was now God's anointed. David recognized that it wasn't his place to depose a ruler within Gods arrangement, just as true anointed Christians today do not try to depose the worldly governments that God tolerates temporarily at this time, even though they will replace them. I think we had better leave this discussion to another time and place as it is straying a bit off topic.

He was already an outcast.

Why assume conspiracy to cover-up? Patently unsuccessful if that was a strategy.

Basis??

He was certainly an outcast. But was that due to his loyalty?

Wonder whats happening now???? Do you have a download of this?

WELL...I'm sure you have given this some prior thought but I think we have an apples and oranges situation here in your comparison. Whilst some elements may work, others do not at all so I am not prepared to do the mental gymnastic to force a fit. For example, whilst a marriage commitment has less gravity than dedication (I'll omit the over-significance attached to baptism), the marriage commitment carries infinitely more risk than dedication. (Don't ask me to explain that as I am sure you have considered that factor already). Whilst it would be interesting to compare the risk level in 16 yr old marriages to 16 yr old driving, I would prefer (and be prepared) to consider a more suitable analogy.

How old is this?

John 12:28. Which name did Jesus refer to here?

Agree with this. We don't even know them in the majority of cases although the media influence makes us think we do. Look at all the grief over the death of a celebrity when every death is a tragedy! Media portrayal is just a myth at best.

Driving licences and dedication and baptism are not equivalent. The common factor is the required level of maturity to accept the responsibility attached. And perhaps that irresponsibility could have life-impacting consequences. I'm finding it hard to make the connection here. In the US, driving accidents are the leading cause of death among 16-19 yr. olds, with 6 dying daily. 243,000+ ER involvements per year, demonstrate the risky nature of teenage driving. Inability to assess risk is a major factor in these incidents. With boys twice as likely to be counted in these numbers as girls, I can understand any concerned parent weighing their son's eager assertion of maturity against any evidence indicating the contrary. A mature attitude to dedication and baptism would be a good indicator of the minor's development, although to see it as a ticket to a driving licence would be as ludicrous as using a driving licence as a baptismal bribe. If I can think that through as soon as hearing the comments in the talk, then I am sure any sane person in the audience could do the same. Don't you think this is all a bit 'mal y pense'?

Some wear nothing at all where I come from

A question for the son to ponder also.

i don't think his loyalty made him an outcast.

Ask his son??

Hmm?? Got my doubts about that. Pretty well for me. Excellent strategy in that David secured his future boundaries whilst giving the Philistines the impression he was fighting their enemies. He then escaped fighting against Saul when the distrusting Philistines sent him away. Thus he played no part in Saul's overthrow and death in the ensuing battle. So David stayed loyal to Jehovah and allowed him to deal with problem of Saul. So back to the thread, the way to deal with New Light, Old Light, any kind of Light is to wait always on Jehovah. Even David advised as much at Ps. 4:3-4.