Evacuated

Well, there's nothing especially revelatory here. Didn't you read that when Abraham "unknowingly entertained angels" (Heb. 13:2) they ate and drank the food he provided for them? (Gen.18:8: "He then took butter and milk and the young bull that he had prepared and set the food before them. Then he stood by them under the tree as they were eating.")? With nutrition and reproduction being two of the seven principal characteristcs of living (physical) organisms that we learn about at latest by 6th grade, we are not really pushing the boundaries here are we? Now, to my understanding, I agree that angels do not reproduce among themselves.... but.... angels materialised as humans that can eat and drink? and likely exhibit the other characteristics of living (physical) organisms? This is a whole different ball game. (Excuse me). And given the rather peculiar nature of the male parent in this case, I would hazard a guess that the nature of the offspring of a (materialized spirit)/humanoid male, "mated" with a normal human female, whilst produced "after it's kind", would exhibit numerous different characteristics from the more usual offspring of the standard human species. Hence, the "Nephilim". it references "spirits in prison" I'm not going to argue the case on this save to say this references spirits (whether they served as angels or not). Spirits are not humans. Now correct me if I have misunderstood, but this appears to be your response to my statement that there would be no dead people preseved alive somewhere by God from the time of the flood of Noah's day. And it appears you are suggesting they are kept alive in Hades? Although they are dead??? Yes they do support WTS belief. Those who receive a reward of life in the future do so by means of a resurrection which takes place at a future time. It is not something they receive while they are dead. But then, you think dead people are alive don't you? There is nothing more to be said on this subject from me unfortunately as it is not possible to reconcile a discussion on this kind of a topic where the condition of the dead is not scripturally established.

I suspect here we may have a different view point as we understand these to be angelic sons of god, not human sons of god. This would appear to harmonise with the expression “spirits in prison,” at 1 Peter 3:19, and additionally referred to as "angels" at Jude 6. Of course there would be no disobedient humans from the time of Noah kept alive in a "prison" after their destruction down to the first century. As Ecc.9:5 shows, dead humans are as unconscious as living ones are conscious.

Dear Arauna. Don't loose heart. You don't have to engage in debate with those who seek to tear down or even insult both what you know to be the truth and those who have helped you to come to this realisation. If you find that responders to your postings are frustrating you in this way, then just set them to ignore in your profile. I see you have 60 reputation clicks, so it can't all be bad!

Because not only the angels were disobedient: Ge.6:5: "Consequently, Jehovah saw that man’s wickedness was great on the earth and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time."

https://tv.jw.org/#en/video/VODMusicVideos/pub-jwbnw_201609_151_VIDEO

Well..........it does present an interesting conundrum for the thinking person I'll agree. We know there are things God cannot do. He cannot lie, cannot die, cannot fail to accomplish his purpose for example. It is abundantly clear that indestructible life exists and that it is not limited to Jehovah (Heb.7:16). But as for us deciding what Jehovah can or cannot do based on our relatively puny experience and intellectual capacity, that is a step too far for me. And as for putting anyone or anything "on a par with the Supreme Deity" ? That seems to be decidedly dodgy ground (Is.40:25) and likely ground upon which even (most) angels would fear to tread.

As I said, local conditions will determine an appropriate response to your request if you make it. I do not think it appropriate myself to comment in a public forum about how specifically Jehovah's Witnesses meet the challenge of fulfilling Jesus command to make disciples where there are current restrictions on that work. Rest assured, if you wish to study the Bible, nothing can stop Jehovah from ensuring you get access to the truth. Pray to him and let him know what you desire. He will see to it that you get the spiritual food you need. 2 Chr. 28:9: "Jehovah searches through all hearts, and he discerns every inclination of the thoughts. If you seach for him, he will let himself be found by you"

You can learn much about God's Word the Bible from the official website https://www.jw.org/en You can select the language you are most comfortable with from the top right hand drop down box that appears on the web pages. Useful sections are : https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/ Also https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/ If you wish to request a Bible Study, use the on-line form here: https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/free-bible-study/ That will enable Jehovah's Witnesses to respond to your request in a manner appropriate to local conditions.

"Immortal" and "everlasting" are two qualities associated with life in the Scriptures. My understanding of these terms is as follows: Immortality (and it's closely associated terms, incorruptible and indestructible) has to do with the quality of life enjoyed by Jehovah himself and certain others of His creation, namely Jesus and his 144000 associate king-priests. Their life also has the quality of being everlasting. The life enjoyed by other spirit creatures whilst potentially everlasting, is not immortal (otherwise how could Satan and his spirit supporters be destroyed?) The word in scripture for immortality (athanasia) is said to mean deathlessness as a quality of life. Because it goes hand in hand with incorruption, (1 Cor.15:53), the description at Heb.7:16 of Jesus having indissoluble life ("indestructible" NWT, rather than the weak "endless" in KJV) is apt. This refers to the quality or nature of life he enjoys and also is enjoyed by the 144000 who are resurrected to rule with him in the heavens. This why those who do go to heaven to rule with Christ have to die as far as their human organism is involved. Then, their resurrection to the heavens includes the gift of immortality. 1 Cor 15:35-58 contains plenty of information on this subject. However, by it's very nature, human life can never be immortal. As long as humans are alive on earth, which will be forever (Ps.37:29), they will need to breath the right mix of gases, eat the right balance of nutrients, sleep when tired, eliminate waste products, repair worn or damaged tissue, and do whatever else is required to maintain physically the organism with which Jehovah endowed his human creation. And then, their obedience to the requirements of the creator, for whose purpose they were created and given that living organism, will ensure that that grant of life will be, just as the Bible says, everlasting but never immortal. And the right to that everlasting life (never enjoyed by the sinner Adam) will be enjoyed by the obedient, perfect human family once the thousand years of Christ's rule has ended. Rev.20:5. So immortal or indestructible life is a quality of life enjoyed by certain spirit beings in the sprit realm, namely Jehovah, Jesus, and the 144,000 king priests. Their life, by nature of its immortality, is also everlasting. The life enjoyed by faithful, sin-cleansed, servants of Jehovah on the earth within the physical realm, will also be everlasting (without end), but always subject to maintenance in harmony with the physical, life-sustaining processes provided by the Creator. This life will therefore never have the quality of immortality.

Its OK now I have located them. They appear on the Show Media section accessed from the current meeting page in either IOS or Android versions of the JW Library app. There is an option to download the media data relating to the current meeting by touching the Show Media icon on the top right of the meeting page. Download in the usual manner and they can be accessed either from the Show Media page for the current meeting or from the Downloaded section in Publications where they stay.

Where are these in the app please?

I haven't found any of the monthly vid presentations in the Library app. Where would I look?

Well @HollyW, I think that just about rounds it off for me. Your able grasp of the allegory, ability to reassemble it's detail and to imaginatively extend it's application indicates clearly that you have understood every word of my postings. I will still track the topic in case any others contribute a useful perspective.

Well, if you get the point of the analogy and feel it lines up with my posts which focus on Scriptural references.... then job done. This is a public forum remember. Lifeboats enable an escape from the ship if the perception is that the ship is doomed. However, mutineers have also found them useful (Fletcher Christian comes to mind). So for the purpose of the illustration, the crew are determined to continue their mission and, regardless of the attempts of the dissuaders, most of the passengers choose to stick with the ship. The dissuaders and those persuaded by their arguments board a number of the ship's lifeboats. The ship sails on into troubled waters to continue it's mission. The lifeboats return to shore. Time will tell who made the wisest choice. As for the question, I have never suggested that it doesn't matter about the Gentile Times ending in 1914. What is significant however is that if it did not and the suggested domino effecton doctrine takes place, we will all be here to tell the tale. If it it did.... then who will the survivors be?

They may well enable you to surmise an estimation of my opinion,.... but that's all. Perhaps... if you could explain your position on the ship?

Can't see a crown of thorns on the stake picture in WT 1 Feb 1991 p 9 which continues the serialisation of the Greatest Man That Ever Lived .... so must have been dropped earlier.

What you quote as marked with inverted commas is correct and I stand by those scriptural expressions. I included them as I believe they are relevant to the question raised. Your assessment of my opinion however, is your own. I have not actually expressed a personal opinion on the issue at this point, as I feel others may make a relevant contribution to the discusson. Let me use an illustration to hopefully clarify where I stand on this matter at the moment. I feel like a passenger on a ship. The ship is rescuing people in a warzone, and has to make a number of stops to pick up more survivors before taking all on board to safety. I have been on board for a while, and it has at times been a scary passage, what with adverse weather conditions at times, to say nothing of hidden mine-fields, direct attacks from enemy forces, or the danger of becoming embroiled in cross-fire from the constant skirmishes between rival factions. However, despite a lack of previous experience of such things, the crew have charts, navigational equipment, and a growing pool of practical wisdom at their disposal. They also have radio contact with their command and are able to get some objective guidance not available otherwise. With all this, the crew has corrected any errors of judgement, adjusted their course, and, despite difficulty, has managed to get the ship and it's passengers safely through many hazardous situations so far. I have come to trust their ability to navigate safely through the uncertain conditions, complete their assignment to pick up survivors, and get the full complement of passengers safely out of the warzone. Now I am faced with a new dilemna. We have stopped to pick up more survivors, but some who want to stay on shore, using the crews own navigational charts and log, are disputing with the decisions made, crticising the crew that have got us so far, and saying they have it all wrong and that we should not trust them to get us to safety. Some are saying that there is no war and that the crew have some ulterior, harmful motive in picking up passengers. A group of passengers appear to be supporting them in these assertions, the bottom line of which is that we should all... ABANDON SHIP! To be continued.....

With respect @HollyW, this is actually your opinion of what I said in earlier postings on this question. I'll leave interested parties to read those earlier postings themselves if they wish, and draw their own conclusions on what my opinion may or may not be.

Do you mean 1934 CE is significant then?

There's a balance to be found between\; Proverbs 18:1: "Whoever isolates himself pursues his own selfish desires; He rejects all practical wisdom." and Galatians 5:26: "Let us not become egotistical, stirring up competition with one another, envying one another."

This is weird. It sounds like The Apost(ates)Creed. Anyway, as I think I touched on before, no one mentioned in Hebrews 11:1-38 knew anything of these disputes and yet Heb.11:39 (in part) says: 'all of these......received a favorable witness because of their faith'. I'll stick with them I think.

As I said @HollyW, there is no reason to expect the process of change to cease. It is the essence of life after all.

With respect, judge for yourself and not for me on that one. Discussions and expectations about dates have presumably been going on one way or another ever since Jesus said he would return. (Matt. 24:3, Acts 1:7). In fact, disputes over Christ's presence were foretold as a feature of the "last days" 2 Pet. 3:3-4. And this is not limited to religious entities either: Dan. 7:23-25. So there is nothing new or unexpected here. Despite it all, Jehovah's Witnesses continue to develop, grow, prosper, and seem to be successful in whatever they turn their hands to, even if it means surviving and outliving vicious attempts to slander and persecute them and prevent their activity. And this in the face of changes, refinements, adjustments, (and whatever else you want to call it), to their doctrine, organisational structure, and procedure. So there is no reason to expect this to change in the future. 1Tim 2:1-6 is a big deal for me however. The supplications and prayers etc. requested by the apostle Paul appear to be having the desired effect.

Hmm...

Thanks for reminding me of the warning Jesus gave about false Christs and prophets. It is comforting to know that Jesus as Head of the Congregation is just as alert today as he was in the 1st Century to provide timely warning and direction to his faithful and sincere followers on this danger, (compare Acts 1:6-7). Despite the attempts of the false Christs and prophets to mislead his sheep, the spirit of his words at John 17:12 and the quotation from them at John 18:9 “Of those whom you have given me, I have not lost a single one.” signifies the ultimate and complete failure of any schemes to mislead his faithful followers in this regard. Whether that constitutes a "big deal one way or the other", I will leave the readers to judge.