8 hours ago, Joy said:

Your absolutely right. As Armageddon draws near, thr persecution will get worse.

'Persecution'? You are not being tarred and feathered, are you? Are you being imprisoned and tortured until you renounce Christ? Are you being thrown out of your homes and hounded out of town for being a JW? 

Expressing criticisms, concerns and reporting negative behavior about a religious group (which all will admit is an imperfect one anyway) is hardly 'persecution.' 

8 hours ago, Manuel Boyet Enicola said:

It's funny, really.  There are a lot of "false" prophets out there that caught media attention, but it seems the internet is picking mostly on just the Jehovah's Witnesses.  Goes to show that JWs are "different" and NOT part of the world.  After all, you won't pick on your own, wouldn't you?  

I guess you haven't done searches on the SDAs or LDS or Scientology to see how much the internet is picking on them. You are attuned to noticing anything JW while mentally filtering out other religions' controversies (with the exception, perhaps, of the Catholics). Sometimes you just need to swim outside the fish bowl to see what's going on in the bigger ocean.

8 hours ago, Manuel Boyet Enicola said:

Moses "supposed" he was to save Israel.  But that did not made him a false prophet, right?  

I didn't see the part where he publicized to the other Hebrews that God had revealed he was using him to save them. Is there a verse somewhere?

7 hours ago, Manuel Boyet Enicola said:

JWs never said that the year 1935 was pointed out in the bible.  Got any proof to that?

You're late to this party. Here's a recap. For a long time, JWs taught that 1935 was the year the door to the heavenly calling closed. In 2007, the Org changed its mind and said that the door to the heavenly calling seems to be open still. Numbers of partakers kept going up every year so the '1935 door closed' idea was no longer tenable - evidently there had to be a rethink. Check your WT CD-ROM.

7 hours ago, Manuel Boyet Enicola said:

The same could be said of those who left after 1925 and 1975.  They did NOT really love Jehovah or Jesus.

That's a sweeping statement. How do you know that they didn't leave because they loved Jehovah and Jesus more than an organization they felt had led them down a false path?

On 4/6/2016 at 11:12 PM, Eoin Joyce said:

Makes no difference. They will still make mistakes, as did prophets of old.

Can you give me an instance from the Bible where a true prophet got Jehovah's message wrong?

7 hours ago, Manuel Boyet Enicola said:

Agree.  Jehovah even used a donkey!  And Jesus said, if needed, "the stones would cry out!" (Luke 19:40)

So then, if Jehovah was using a congregation member to correct the Org or elders, and the congregation member was punished for doing so, surely it is the Org or elders who need to repent of their actions and not the congregation member who was used by Jehovah, right?

Define "soon."

I know, metaphorically, we can all have our own personal 'Armageddons,' but I don't think JWs ever taught that Armageddon was something indwelling or inherent. 

2 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

So, the big question is, if they have been wrong in the past, how do you know they are right now?

Right about what? Each teaching has to be judged on its scriptural and evidentiary merits ... or otherwise. And who knows what the org will be teaching in 5 years time!

3 minutes ago, Jesus.defender said:

No, you didnt. you just pointed to a robotic watchtower statement.

... which said that they dropped that understanding.

JWs no longer believe that 1935 is the cut-off point for the heavenly calling. You might as well ask how JWs can prove from the Bible that Jesus' invisible return occurred in 1874 or that organ transplants are wrong or that Jehovah's throne is near Alcyone.

Sheesh. 

The historical doctrinal reasons for Rutherford choosing the 1935 date are interesting, however. 

4 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

How do you prove from the Bible that 1935 was the year for the selection to heaven stopped due to being filled?

I gave a response the last time you asked this same question. See link below.

That so needs to be captioned. The brother's face is priceless. 

Quote

 

*** w95 6/1 p. 26 Godly Obedience in a Religiously Divided Family ***

“IT HURTS much more than any physical blow. . . . I feel as though I am bruised all over, and yet no one can see it.” “Sometimes I feel like giving up on life . . . or leaving and never coming back.” “It is hard to think straight sometimes.”

Those emotion-filled words reveal feelings of desperation and loneliness. They come from victims of verbal abuse—accusations, threats, degrading name-calling, the silent treatment—and even physical abuse from mates and family members. Why are these people treated so badly? Simply because of differing religious beliefs.

 

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*** g 6/13 p. 4 How to End the Silent Treatment ***

Manipulation. Some use the silent treatment as a means to get what they want. For example, imagine that a husband and wife plan a trip and the wife would like to take her parents along. The husband objects. “You’re married to me, not to your parents,” he says. He then gives his wife the silent treatment, shunning her in the hope that she will break down and concede to his wishes.

Of course, a temporary time-out can give a couple the opportunity to let emotions cool when an argument is getting out of hand. That type of silence can be beneficial. The Bible says that there is “a time to keep quiet.” (Ecclesiastes 3:7) But when it is used as a means to retaliate or manipulate, the silent treatment not only prolongs conflict but also erodes the respect the couple have for each other.

 

^ Here, the silent treatment is said to be a form of abuse, bullying and manipulation.

v Here, an example demonstrates how effective this tactic can be. A success story for the Organization.

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*** w12 4/15 p. 12 pars. 16-17 Betrayal—An Ominous Sign of the Times! ***

What if we have a relative or a close friend who is disfellowshipped? Now our loyalty is on the line, not to that person, but to God. Jehovah is watching us to see whether we will abide by his command not to have contact with anyone who is disfellowshipped.—Read 1 Corinthians 5:11-13.

Consider just one example of the good that can come when a family loyally upholds Jehovah’s decree not to associate with disfellowshipped relatives. A young man had been disfellowshipped for over ten years, during which time his father, mother, and four brothers “quit mixing in company” with him. At times, he tried to involve himself in their activities, but to their credit, each member of the family was steadfast in not having any contact with him. After he was reinstated, he said that he always missed the association with his family, especially at night when he was alone. But, he admitted, had the family associated with him even a little, that small dose would have satisfied him. However, because he did not receive even the slightest communication from any of his family, the burning desire to be with them became one motivating factor in his restoring his relationship with Jehovah. Think of that if you are ever tempted to violate God’s command not to associate with your disfellowshipped relatives.
 

 

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*** w13 6/15 p. 28 par. 17 Let Jehovah’s Discipline Mold You ***

Robert was disfellowshipped for nearly 16 years, during which time his parents and siblings firmly and loyally applied the direction in God’s Word to quit mixing in company with wrongdoers, not even greeting such ones. Robert has been reinstated for some years now and is progressing well spiritually. When asked what moved him to return to Jehovah and His people after such a long time, he replied that the stand that his family took affected him. “Had my family associated with me even a little, say to check up on me, that small dose of association would have satisfied me and likely not allowed my desire for association to be a motivating factor to return to God.”

 

However, the silent treatment leads some other victims to depression and/or suicide, and with others to hurt feelings and alienation from their loved ones that run so deep, relationships are irreparably damaged. These examples don't tend to be in the publications.
 

On 5/18/2016 at 1:55 PM, WitnessConfectionProgram said:

The society never resisted such things.  I remember seeing a video of people using a portable DVD player for the sign language ministry (I think it might have been the 'Organised to Share the Good News' video, but I'm not sure) long before we would have had such a device.  (My first thought wasn't 'They're using videos on the ministry', but 'Wow, you can get DVD players that you can carry around'.)

The Society has been resistant to using digital visual aids and videos as part of their public teaching. When did you first see an audio-visual presentation routinely used as part of conventions, assemblies and weekly meetings? Only in the past few years, right?

Don't you remember that there was a time when speakers could use slides and cine film as part of their public talks (maybe before your time)? They were a highlight, a change from the humdrum. Then the Society discouraged them. 

For so long, while businesses, schools and churches had long been fitted out with IT equipment, using it as an everyday teaching tool, the Society lagged behind, preferring to stick with the old lecture/platform demo format. Several years ago, a tech-savvy JW friend of mine suggested that the convention technicians made use of the big screens at the arena. The technology was all there, why not make the talks more interesting and memorable by adding PowerPoints and other visuals? He was told off for, what was considered, a worldly view.

On 5/18/2016 at 1:55 PM, WitnessConfectionProgram said:

So it would appear that this guidance which has been on our notice board for years doesn't actually come from the society, a fact which I'll be sure to mention to our elders later this week!

I wouldn't, as it does actually come from the Society. It's copyrighted to them and has its own literature code - dgb-E Us.

On 5/18/2016 at 1:55 PM, WitnessConfectionProgram said:

You say "the JW community needs to catch up with late 20th/early 21st century."  But why should we want to do that?  Quite the opposite, we want to "quit being fashioned after this system of things." (Romans 12:2)  The culture of some witnesses at a Kingdom Hall shares elements in common with the culture of the surrounding country, but it is a different culture, and that is as it should be.  We don't want our language to "catch up" with the amount of swearing that is common for them.  We don't want our morality to "catch up" with theirs.  And there's no reason we should want our styles of clothing to "catch up" with theirs.  Just as the Jews had a blue lining around their garment that garment that set them apart from the world, so our style of dress sets us apart from the world, and that's a good thing.

Should the Jews still continue wearing long robes with a blue thread 2nd millennium BC style to avoid being fashioned after the modern system of things? 

Which decade or century of fashion do you think appropriate for today's JW woman? Or which country's present day fashion (that of Islamic countries, perhaps)? 

Really, if there is nothing scripturally wrong with western women wearing pants, and they are acceptable even as conservative business and formal wear, the Org. is 'going beyond the things written.' And it is the Org. that is setting the standard here. The r&f JWs follow the leadership's direction whether it is explicit or implicit (e.g. the Bethel Dress brochure).

On 5/18/2016 at 1:55 PM, WitnessConfectionProgram said:

 There may not be anything scripturally wrong with a sister wearing trousers, but in the Kingdom Hall it would stick out like a sore thumb.

That's because it's frowned on! Go out to the workplace office, into the street, and women in pants are commonplace.

By the way, it is also common etiquette to dress appropriately for the setting. You don't see women routinely dressed as Dorothy, a munchkin, or even the Wicked Witch of the West when they are going about their everyday lives, so your example is a straw man (or woman).

2 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

It seems to be adequately fit for purpose at present

Many JW women would disagree. Pants are often more practical and can even be more modest than skirts. They are accepted as appropriate smart-wear for women in the business world. There are no scriptural grounds against them, and I guess it's just another one of those antiquated attitudes where the JW community needs to catch up with late 20th/early 21st century. It may happen - you never know. Look how the Org has embraced digital visual aids and videos as part of their public teaching after resisting them for so many years. 

3 hours ago, Hugh Baxter said:

Yes JW Insider has the patience of Job. Reminds me of "Wrench" from another forum I visited every now and then. (make that a few Forums)

Hm. I think I see where you're coming from with the 'patiently explaining' thing. However, Wrench was an incorrigible wriggler. 

Liking JAMMY's post for containing the phrase, "wet noodle spanking." 

On 5/10/2016 at 8:06 AM, Eoin Joyce said:

Depends on the culture and conscience of the people in area.

And yet, in this Western culture, where women routinely wear pants in formal, informal and business settings, KH culture still frowns upon JW women wearing them to meetings and in service. Why?

I guess it would be argued that the jworg icon isn't used as an object of worship like the cross has been. However ...

Re-posting from an older jw-archive thread:

... the frequency of seeing arts, crafts, jewelry, buttons, bags, flower beds and so on with the jwdotorg logo strikes me as obsessive.

Obsessive with ... a website. The focus of attention has become increasingly centered on branding, or on cartoon characters, or on the org's new audio-visual mega-machine.

*** w50 6/15 p. 186 par. 38 A Victory Dedicated to Jehovah’s Honor ***

"There is this to remember concerning organizations generally. When young and growing, fighting their way up, zeal is strong and evangelistic; but when they have won their place and become strong and wealthy and respected they often lose their virile strength and become lax, fat, sluggish, and point with pride to their size, and put their directives above God’s commands. That has happened to the organizations of the big and prosperous, orthodox churches of Christendom. The organization is served and worshiped instead of the one it claims to represent, namely Jehovah God. But this snare will never catch Jehovah’s cleansed people today ... "

"But this snare will never catch Jehovah’s cleansed people today" - 65 years on from those words, and observing the recent trends developing, it appears to me that with all the emphasis on the 'seen' (2 Cor. 4:18; 5:7), JWs are walking headlong into that very snare.

Jesus.defender - your posts are usually tl;dr. You'll likely get a better response if you pick out a couple of salient points from your walls of text and ask the members a question instead. Just a suggestion.

Anyway, I thought I'd comment on the reproduced article Gregorio Alberto posted (which was also too long, so scanned it through quickly). 

Quote

On the basis of the above, critics of Jehovah's Witnesses have some questions to answer:

(1) Do they think it is truthful and fair to focus on a minute selection of the Watch Tower’s published material - the most negative part - and ignore everything else?

I think critics are usually trying to redress the balance. Oftentimes the Watch Tower selectively quotes its own material to put a positive spin on a theological agenda or a part of its organisational history. E.g. the Bible Student views and expectations about 1914, or the 1922 'Advertise, advertise' speech that misses out a whole chunk about what exactly the Bible Students were advertising. 

Quote

(2) Can they cite the Watch Tower publication where the Society claims to be an “inspired prophet” (their expression, not ours).  On what do they base that conclusion, and how do they explain the dozens of quotations I have presented from the Society’s literature - from all periods of its history - where the Society denies that?[29]

To my knowledge, there is nothing written in the publications where the Society applies the specific term "inspired prophet" to itself - just as the Bible doesn't apply the term "governing body" to the 1st century Jerusalem council or the word "organisation" to describe the Jewish religion or the early Christian congregation. 

The Org. likes to have it both ways when it comes to its claimed status. For every statement made about the Society being fallible and not being inspired, there are others that attribute the Society's interpretations and directions as being from God and that the faithful should regard them as such.

Quote

(3) Why do they present the Watchtower’s statements about future events as prophetic statements, rather than what they really were - interpretations?

Everyone is already familiar with the "God's dates" quote (OP posted above), as well as the other interpretations and predictions where the Org. used dogmatic language, like 'indisputable,' 'scriptural facts,' 'historically proven,' 'revealed by Jehovah' and similar, to describe them.

Are the following statements predictions, prophecies, interpretations or do the terms overlap here?

*** kj chap. 12 p. 216 par. 9 “Until He Comes Who Has the Legal Right” ***
Shortly, within our twentieth century, the “battle in the day of Jehovah” will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom. 

*** w89 1/1 p. 12 par. 8 “The Hand of Jehovah Was With Them” [original printing] ***
The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century.

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(4) Do they believe that others who have had mistaken expectations, including Martin Luther, John Wesley and Billy Graham, are false prophets, and if not, why not?

They had mistaken expectations and prophesied falsely. However, none of these people claimed they were God's exclusive channel of truth, or that people's salvation depended on associating with them and assenting to their teachings (Luther had courageously rejected that same Catholic-style mindset!). So, this is why the JW Org gets a harsher rap.

On 5/10/2016 at 2:45 AM, Manuel Boyet Enicola said:

 

If we have to believe everything posted "as is", then that also makes Jonah a false prophet. He prophesied that Niniveh would fall in 40 days and it did not happen.

 

Jonah was accurately conveying Jehovah's message which made him a true prophet (cp. Jer. 14:14; 23:21). It was Jehovah who changed his mind about what was to befall Nineveh.

On 5/10/2016 at 2:45 AM, Manuel Boyet Enicola said:

 And also Moses who believed that he was anointed by Jehovah and it was time to liberate Israel from Egypt - only to wait 40 years more....

According to the Bible story, when he killed the Egyptian to avenge the abused Israelite (singular), he didn't think he was anointed for any special prophetic service by Jehovah. His commission only happened years later at the 'burning bush' incident.

On 5/12/2016 at 4:17 AM, Nicole said:

 

Doesn’t having brothers and sisters being used as security to “protect” Kingdom Halls show a form of idolatry over a building / corporation?

 

How is it idolatry to protect one's own or another's property? I don't get it. Besides,

Matthew 24:43 - “But know one thing: If the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into." 

Was Jesus using an idolater as an analogy for Christian vigilance? 

On 5/12/2016 at 4:17 AM, Nicole said:

And what exactly would one of Jehovah’s Witnesses do if confronted by determined robbers?

Call the police? Hmm. Other than that, I would hope any volunteer security guard would get appropriate training for these kinds of scenarios.

On 5/7/2016 at 9:47 PM, Eoin Joyce said:

Not the happy ones, but I would have thought some of the troubled ones might have had a pop?

Along with their photos? Only if they had a death wish! Lolol.

On 5/7/2016 at 9:47 PM, Eoin Joyce said:

Do you know, I read this stuff and I feel sad for the people that do it. I just never had that experience. I don't know why people don't associate with their families when they become witnesses. I was never encouraged to behave like that although I hear plenty of tales of those who do on these forums. ...

As Rodney King famously said: "Can we all get along?" I'm so glad to hear you are not one of those that alienates your family over a mere difference in belief. 

On 5/7/2016 at 9:47 PM, Eoin Joyce said:

Thanks for the links. I'll check that stuff out when I have time.

So did you check them out? Food for thought, hey? 

Tell me: Can cayenne pepper halt a heart attack in progress?

Many noted herbalists – particularly the late Dr. John Christopher, who claimed to have stopped heart attacks “in their tracks” with cayenne pepper — insist that it can, and anecdotal accounts of the life-saving effects of cayenne abound on the internet.

On the other hand, conventionally-trained physicians scoff at this assertion, and warn that there is not enough evidence to justify cayenne’s use as an emergency treatment. Many also point to the dangers of administering cayenne to a patient suffering from a heart attack or stroke.

Experts say its use could lead to uncontrolled bleeding if the person is on a blood thinner, such as coumadin. In addition, the pain of ingesting an unaccustomed dose of hot pepper could cause adrenaline to be released, increasing heart rate while reducing blood flow to heart and brain and causing increased death of tissues.

Reperfusion injuries – damage to tissues from the sudden return of blood and oxygen – could also occur. And some websites actually encourage the administration of liquid cayenne extracts to heart attack victims who have lost consciousness – an appallingly dangerous action.

Although cell and animal studies have been encouraging, it’s worth noting: Dr. Kevin Jones, the very scientist behind the capsaicin research, advises against applying capsaicin cream to the skin of someone who is having a heart attack.

It can’t be overstated: if you think you are having a heart attack, call 911 and summon immediate medical assistance. If you would like to use cayenne pepper to ward off heart attacks, discuss this with a trusted doctor.

- http://www.naturalhealth365.com/cayenne-pepper-stop-heart-attack-1145.html