Arauna

They will use this as the excuse..... not for the purpose of true justice. Jehovah has never punished someone else for a murder. The perpetrator must have the consequences himself - not someone else - but only on witness of two people because of the seriousness of the consequences. The GB will carry the consequences even though they were not the perpetrators of the crimes or the elders in the congregation which could not determine guilt..... or negligence in congregation. And here I use the example again of other religious organizations. It is more prevalent in Islam than in catholic church and also the Jews BUT do you ever see anyone of these religions put it in the press? ....never a word in the press. Why are JWs singled out?..... even though we shun when we can determine guilt ? Because people want to destroy us. They know we are imperfect like they are - but their hate for us wins the day..... we are wicked when we do not immediately condemn without enough proof and we are condemned when we shun...... so we can never get it right.... similar to Jesus they will find a reason to crucify us. I think they will turn against GB and confiscate all property......... but JWs will still meet and not be destroyed when other religions are destroyed at Armageddon........ then when we still preach ..... they will turn on us - final part of Armageddon.

Nope Matt 18: 20 For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.” We are instructed in the bible not to forsake meetings. My reasoning is this: - If they are the true "slave" as they say they are: Have they got groups of people in most countries who gather together ? Who all believe the same as they do? In order to form the 'nation' from all tribes and languages that will appear in the time of the end ? According to Isaaih 2: 2-4

Exactly! The question was to get you to think! You answered correctly. .... we will not need the 144000 amongs us to teach us on earth.... gods spirit will guide us....... You read into it motives which are not there. If they did not help the brothers - then people like you would say they are wicked and do not have gods spirit and when they do appoint a committee to help - then they are controlling and watching brothers........ as I said before..... do you ever think of your reasonableness? A sign of gods spirit is love and reasonableness. Before the throne. The earth is the footstool of the throne- read Isaiah 66:1. Are JWs worshiping God whole-souled, or has their dedication to a “worldwide organization” led them away from true worship? Those who “worship” the Beast/organization that is guided by a false prophet (Rev 13:11) say, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to make war with him?” This is the same Beast that overcomes the anointed through blasphemy targeted against them. Rev 13:4-7 Can truth/light reside with falsehood/darkness? 2 Cor 6:14 Would Jesus, who is Truth, allow his servants to spread falsehoods worldwide, especially when he promised the Helper would tell them “all things”? John 14:2 You do realize that every piece of wrongful teaching from the GB reached all corners available at the time of its distribution? Millions of people read them, JWs and those not JWs. Doesn’t the fact that the organization exposed their list of falsehoods/”beliefs clarified" prove beyond a doubt that Jesus’ Spirit is not found in the hearts of your leaders? It truly is slander against the Son of God to believe he condones falsehoods. Telling truth does not equate to hate! Did Jesus Patronizing me again - you are the great false prophet that is led by your own "holy" spirit to say that I cannot think for myself. So you are blessed by your great visions to think for yourself better than I do? You say the anointed are the great crowd - just this sentence had me realize what I am dealing with - it is so ludicrous. I am now more sure than ever that I am dealing with a self-appointed religious nut. Sorry - to tell it so rudely - you are totally disregarding the forecourt of the original temple ....... so you interpretation of this also incorrect........ and you speak down to me asif I am ignorant? I do not profess to be anointed. But "stupid" people like me have more knowledge of the bible by listening to the JW slave than you do - You are self-appointed teachers - who (in your extreme arrogance) is opposing the true slave .......whom you accuse OCD-style of arrogance....... and all this is due to your own desire to have prominence to teach! It is not a out the teachings itself - it is all about the prominence! Because your interpretation of scripture does not impress me at all!

I can say how don't see any special need for 144000 to be in Heaven for purpose to reign. That can be done also very good from Earth too. But maybe we can say, for fun, that problem is hidden in transferring power of spirit from Heaven to Earth. We been explained by WT Society how "miracles" stopped. In that context it seems how one of "miracle" is to be inspired by God also finished in 1 century. :))) Perhaps that could be reason why is important for 14400 to be lifted in Heaven. Because distance must be too far, too long to be handled by spirit. :)))) The spirit of God is not teaching you very well on your own..... this I can see from your comments. When people serve jehovah from free will they will not need anyone to watch them like a watchdog. I think you guys can go and join muslims or the Jews because they believe the ordinary people need someone superior over them to teach them everything. In the new system, new books will be opened to teach us Jehovahs advanced ways but it will be easy to learn because you will have a willing bunch of free people who WANT to serve God. To rule means to judge. So they will judge those who do not cooperate willingly. Where there is self-sacrificing love , a person puts yourself last, then you learn Jehovahs ways quickly and get more of his Spirit. So your idea of teaching as a tool to lord it over others is bogus. .

believe this is what God or Jesus Christ wants from 'chosen one 1 Srecko Sostar reacted to this You are trolling me but you just made another blanket statement again - painting all with the same brush....... like I said before...... the real judge is jehovah. Quote

That is where you are wrong! . I expect JWs to be so singled out by the world as the only organisation deserving of the worst punishment even though it is a sin for us to do this - compared to other secular organizations who get away with it. I suspect you are the one who will get the shock when you REALIZE you have persecuted jehovah and those who imperfectly represent him.

So the " great crowd" will learn all things by themselves? They do not need an organized place to attend meetings? .... which is instructed by the bible to attend so we can strengthen each other? This is why I call you out as misleading and false....... where is your worldwide organization which is providing place for people of all nations to gather and worship jehovah? And teach them live and neutrality so they truly view themselves as one nation with no borders dividing them...... There are so many other scriptures which indicate otherwise while you create an argument over the only scripture that 'may' indicate it because of an argument over a preposition....... are you changing the entire truth based on your 'desire' to start 'ruling now? We are being 'taught ' now by that 'slave' you hate. But you may be running ahead about the 1000 year reign..... don't you think? Don't be patronizing to me..... I know that because of jehovahs spirit working in them. But the bible clearly indicates that they will judge and rule when they are in heaven......

Nothing is beyond your extreme criticism lol. Go buy yourself a little patch in London or in any other capital city like New York and see what it costs you. If they needed a space for someone or a worker, or even for guests or whatever, they would have bought it because it was needed at the time and is now no longer needed. Says the exceedingly worldly guy...... If they sell the property to help brothers they are wicked and if they buy it to help brothers they are wicked....... do you sound reasonable to yourselves? Thanks to Jehovah you are not the final judges because you will put all JWs in Auschwitz......just for being JWs..... ah, you may still help the world to do that in future ..... who knows?

Yes, for now.... but they receive a heavenly body to do their job in heaven as a full complete body of 144000. Why is this new heavenly body necessary if they could do their job on earth......?? Yes, to serve a purpose! To show he was resurrected but his real home was in the presence of his father....... no longer here on earth. Jesus gave up his fleshly body when he died and was resurrected with so heavenly spirit body and immortality. 1 cor 15: 50 "But I tell you this brothers, flesh and blood cannot inherit gods kingdom." Corinthians 15 goes on to contrast a fleshly body with a heavenly body. They will fulfill the function of kings and priests when they have been sealed and taken up to heaven.. when there is no man or woman ......... . They sing the new song in heaven..... not here on earth. I see the slave as "facilitators" at present. The elders are our servants or facilitators. The humility that Jesus taught ..... to serve others. Here is the definition : Facilitator: to make an action or process easy or easier Synonyms for facilitate: help, simplify, smooth, promote, The slave are not yet ruling - they still have to be approved to receive that immortality and incorruptability in that future heavenly body. It is those who remain humbly faithful to the end who will receive that crown. Unfortunately some do not keep that unity and start beating up on others.....becoming Jezebels....... spoken of in Revelation. "And no-one was able to master the song except those 144000 who were bought from the earth"

The bible itself says that we must not have fellowship with those who are brazen in conduct. There is no "threat". When a person is a spiritual threat to other brothers and sisters and does not stop brazen conduct......then only, after they have been requested many times to stop unacceptable behaviour, are they disfellowshipped. These are the ones who usually then defame JWs and hide the truth- that they were disfellowshipped because of a Christian conduct, be it repetitive lying, stealing, fornication etc...... a practice of some und of unacceptable behaviour. Many realize the need to change and come back into the fold - others become more brazen..... and defame JWs. I see you did not like this comment. ...... it says a lot about you. People like to blame "others" .... never themselves.... Adam blamed eve.... lol.

My daughter bought a small home in UK in a safe area. One bathroom, 3 bedrooms - and it costs over over half million pounds. So a 1 million pound house (especially in London must be the size of a dingy) and is definitely not the epitome of luxury - which impression you are trying to create. To sell a house that people have been using is good. They can use this money to assist brothers in the rest of the world. I guess they are selling because it is no longer needed..... but if they kept it you would also complain. One cannot ever please some people.....

I guess - according to you - we can throw out all the scriptures which indicate the anointed will have heavenly bodies such as 1 cor 15 and revelations - too many places to mention. Not even those which show they will be changed in an instant. And the scriptures in Hebrews which indicate that they will be priests in the heavenly temple of jehovah. Jehovah is perfect in logic, so why give a heavenly body when a physical body is more suited to the earth? The marriage of the lamb will take place where? Did Jesus give up his earthly body to receive a heavenly spiritual body? And did he really say to his disciples they will be with him where he is? Agh, there are just too many scriptures which indicate it is a heavenly kingdom and heavenly rulership....and a heavenly priesthood - a function you have forgotten about by just wanting to " rule"......... .which tells me you are up to your same old, same old behaviours. You boast you are of the body of christ...... so which "body" do you belong to which has perfect unity? . How many members? Where do you meet? And are you and your adherents fulfilling the prophesy that the good news of the kingdom will be preached throughout the earth?

If you think they use it for their own purposes then why do you donate? That is not logical. It depends on what you define as own purposes, private purposes, public purposes, necessities, etc. I think you really should be more thankful to be associated with the organization and what it does for us.

Just one question for you: when you go to meeting or field service you get to use many videos that were made to be easily accessible for all ages and peoples. Do you have any clue what equipment costs? Many poor congregations in Africa receive projectors from the organization because they cannot afford it. They do still print bibles and watchtowers etc. Do you think they must remain in the Jurassic age when it comes to using technology or will it be ok by you if they venture to use the newest tech to support the brothers? You have a budget to fulfill your responsibilities at home.....dont you? Why not broaden out and see that they also need money to provide services in almost 1000 languages? I think we need a little more gratitude and less criticism... ALL you see is "billions" which you try to imply are used for their own purposes.... They are always in need of funds to make it stretch further..... because we do get all our spiritual needs fulfilled without cost. You need not give any donation if you feel they waste it. You can use all amenities without giving a dime!

My above comment was an illustration. If you find it a joke you have not thought it through. It illustrates the need for "barriers" to drive on a road safely and also to drive through life. To not tread on each others toes we need barriers which are not crossed. When they are crossed society does not function properly. There are people here who hate JWs..... so do not take them seriously.

One can only open someones eyes if they are really searching for the truth. I apologize if I have become too skeptical about the motives of people who contribute on this forum. There is enough evidence here to suggest that I may be correct.

Jesus said they will know my disciples because the love among them. What kind of love? The love of Jesus which is self-sacrificing love. Yes, I am prepared to give my life for my brothers. This is love in action. During the Rwanda genocide brothers hid other families from the other tribe under their homes in holes..... if they were found out they faced immediate death by machetti or gun.... this is self-sacrificing love amongst our African brothers. Do the other churches in USA teach this kind of love? I bet your grear great grandmother who lived then (if she lived in USA) was a great racist.... just indicating that historical context does matter.

True. There are things we do not have control over. Kreutzers disease is a result of cannibalism..... feeding animals their own kind.

Exactly! There is a united loving group of people all over the earth under the name of God- jehovahs people. The miracle is that they have unity despite being IMPERFECT. Just like old israel, dedicated to jehovah, individuals are imperfect and stumble like David and Solomon. God loved David - but he did not have hundred 100% of gods spirit all the time. Jehovah can inspire a group of people to accomplish a purpose. Israel of old brought forth the messiah and provided the imputus for the first congregations despite all the problems had with them. The nation of God today allows for jehovah to accomplish the preaching work and guarantee survivors (a great crowd) through armageddon. The slave helps us to understand our stance of neutrality and morality - which will be tested. Our faithfulness to Jehovahs kingdom government and its principles will be tested. The slave teaches us what we need at this time......to survive Armageddon. If you have so much of gods spirit that you can quote scriptures in a sly way to sow doubt on others who may have gods spirit? ..... Whose will are you serving? The facts are before you: there is a united nation for Jehovahs name - against all odds. They are preaching earth wide a kingdom government which christendom does not even understand to be a real government. Our members only vote by their loyal actions for gods government, whereas christendom are all voting for various political factions and even going to any war their leaders wish to embroil them in. As for the godless..... we know what the bible has to say about them.

Your OCD deceit and hate is showing. .....

You are always accusing GB of being dictators but this proves you wrong. Personal conscience is recognized. There are so many things which are left to personal conscience - such as blood reactions. Personally, I think jehovah loves Turkey because he made them. It is the humans which use them for the wrong purpose. Just as humans misuse blood without the respect for the life it represents.

Yes, christiandom had a big role to play in the suppression and even the extermination of the "savages", especially in spanish south America. The wars between protestant and catholic took their toll in Europe just before the new world opened up. Christendom has a lot to answer for before jehovah. I come from the stock of huguenots who fled from France to South Africa and started the wine industry there. They obtained slaves from Malaysia and some intermarried. Our language has many French and Malaysian influences which is different from current Dutch. When I visited the Spanish fort close to Jacksonville, florida, I discovered that the Spanish massacred the huguenots who fled from France to Florida for religious freedom. The details were shocking. Christendom's history is blood thirsty and oppressive of the people under its dominion. At the beginning of our organization these attitudes were not immediately stomped out. The brothers focussed on the other truths that were new such as the mortality of the soul, jehovahs name and so forth. But thanks to jehovah we now have a miracle of unity and love all over the earth..... only Jehovahs spirit can allow people to make these drastic changes in their own hearts and attitudes. In South Africa it is very clear...... the brothers who take the lead are wonderful and mostly black..... trained in the scriptures.

Agreed. What they want is a government which will outlaw the bible and Jesus (I think of Matt 24 where it indicates that those having faith in jesus' randsom sacrifice will be persecuted). California recently tabled a law which would have basically outlawed the bible - but it did not pass...... but how long before it does? We cannot be deceived to take sides because some political party is 'perceived' as loving God a little more than the other side and fights infantacide...... when they are in fact - the beast. The racial hatred and injustice in USA has tripled in the past few years because of official statements made, perceptions created and the outrageous reaction of the opposing press......it is like a cold civil war going on. On the other side of the beast is the secular, humanist, feminist, LGBTQ, materialist goals and this side has a stated hate for the God of the bible and its white supremacist leaders... (again a generalization: but its members belong to a party who loves Islam and shuns the bible's values - even if they go to church.) For us as JWs - there is no choice between the two...... because both are playing their part to lead us to Armageddon..... the one a little faster than the other. Human government sucks and it gets clearer and clearer every day. We should keep focussed on Jehovahs government.... watch just enough news to know where things are going..... and keep focussed on preaching and building each other up.

This is so typical.....loved this experience ! People are people, and their ideas on neutrality are not the same - even after the lessons have been repeated over and over in the watchtower. Keeping neutral .... but not understanding what true neutrality is. Neutrality does not mean you are not supposed to know what is happening around you or that someone has to be silenced when they mention something ... But I reckon.... this is where true humility comes into play and for the sake of peace, refrain from having your say. It can also come back to bite you. There is a time to keep silent. Neutrality is making a choice every time an issue comes up. Granted, it us hard not to take sides when you have an idea about who is lying in a particular situation....! But deceit and lying is all part of the political game. These politicians gave up something to be where they are. Truth and sincerity are replaced by ambition and lies and many hidden deals. I am astounded at the open nepotism tolerated everywhere in Washington- on both sides of the isle! People have truly lost their moral compass! And the staggering amounts of money to be made ....... poor politicians become multi-millionaires pretty quickly .... and so do their children make tons of money and extend their influence in other countries! These days, no politician can fight a clean fight and expect to win..... too much spying, false leaks in the news, misinformation and outright acrimony. I do watch world news and events to see fulfillment of bible prophecy. No matter who wins the next election - USA is on a downward spiral and the spectators will be agast when they realise the plane is totally out of control. The speed of the decent depends on who is next elected....... the speed of the decent may be fast or slow. The self-deceit of the public is amazing and helped by the press who mostly tell the public what they want to hear. America will still exist when the end comes but it will have handed over it power willingly to the eighth king....... So, if a certain party - which is very willing to hand over its autonomy, wins - then I will gauge that the decent will be faster than i anticipated...... The "clay and iron" has reached a point of irreconcileability......and this same scenario is playing out in Europe, Australia, Canada etc. (Bible so accurate in its predictions) . In the meantime Russia, China and all their allies are extending their economic influence and territories. It is really now just a matter of time then things will truly become ugly and we will know that we have arrived at the time we were waiting for! We will see jehovah in action!

Are you for real? You know nothing about me.....and the tests I had to face.... But I know the word of God and I have paid my dues. My daughter had cancer and had surgery which lasted the entire day..... without blood and she was 8 and half months old. .... If she had taken blood she would not have survived. It is what the doctors and this world don't tell you that is important! I can share all the info I learnt with you to prove to you that the bible is absolutely right when it cautions us to abstain from blood. .... if you are interested I can inform you. It takes the liver 30 days to break down foreign blood in the system..... if the person is too weak they get anaphalactic shock from the blood transfusion - which is never given as the reason for death on the death certificate. ..... always complications from surgery. Life is important to me ..... but everlasting life is more important.