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Witness

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  1. Like
    Witness reacted to Ann O'Maly in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    Some of his comments and analyses of scripture echo what 'apostates' have banged on about for decades. I'm particularly thinking of his conclusion here:
    "The “faithful and discreet slave” refers to any Christian who is
    faithful and on the watch when Jesus comes as the judge in the
    great tribulation. It does not refer to a class that gives spiritual
    food during Christ’s presence." - p. 72.
    Yes, and don't know.
  2. Thanks
    Witness reacted to The Librarian in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    I wonder if he just copied Fred Franz' viewpoint?
    See also
     
  3. Like
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    @Ann O'Maly  This is wonderful news. Music to my ears. I think @James Thomas Rook Jr. would love this too. 
    It would be so funny if this book says things that i have been saying on here for a long time. 
    Quote  
    "There was no governing body in the first century CE. Therefore, the present Governing Body has no legacy and should be dissolved." - p. 135.
    I love this. But if I say to much i will be D/fed from this forum, as John Butler was. Even that word 'dissolved' might pose a threat.  
    Quote,  " he blasts the current GB for losing their way, being power- and money-grabbing, amongst other complaints, and he scripturally dismantles the FDS doctrine. " 
    Mr Rook said similar things and so have I.  
    Is this only available as an e-book ?   Is it or will it be available in 'real paper copy' ? 
    @TrueTomHarley  Could be the start of something big Tom ?   And before you say it, NO I'm not looking to follow men But it is nice to get an honest / alternative point of view isn't it. 
    And the CCJW say that higher education is a waste of time. Um, I wonder why they would say that. 
    I think this gentleman and his book proves the point I'm making here. 
     
  4. Like
    Witness reacted to Ann O'Maly in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    @Srecko Sostar Naive? Possibly. I assume that his thinking is, if the GB rejects his approach, then at least he's abided by the direction in God's word and can take the moral/scriptural high ground, he has a clear conscience before God, etc. 
  5. Like
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    It is sincerely naive approach. GB elders allow this sort of "communication" only at rank and file level for minor problems among congregants. But, even there, on this low ground field where ordinary members living, almost no one of JW's really understand how Mat 18 have to work when they are faced with internal problems. One reason for that is in elders who also not using Mat 18 with more understanding.
    First obstacle is in gradation of "sins" as: "minor and gross". :))
     
  6. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Generosity?  True generosity would have been the opening of WT's money bags and allowing the congregation to help JWs as they see fit. Instead, they applied to be distributors of food provided for free, by the government.  Don't you see?  It wasn't generosity, but the organization's greedy act of protecting their OWN material interests.   (Matt 19:21; 2 Cor 9:9)
     
    Food banks are all over the U.S., Tom.   They are nothing new and reach out to thousands on a regular basis, not just during a pandemic.  
     
    Is Jesus nuts?  I have been watching "The Chosen".  They are dramas taking place in Jesus' day.  As 4Jah2me had pointed out, they are not accurate as far as scripture goes, but they have a message.  Here is one for you.  LISTEN to what Jesus tells the woman at the well.  If you put your faith in "organization", in a "mountain", and not in the Spirit of God, you show you have little faith.  Zech 4:6,7
     
     
     
  7. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Generosity?  True generosity would have been the opening of WT's money bags and allowing the congregation to help JWs as they see fit. Instead, they applied to be distributors of food provided for free, by the government.  Don't you see?  It wasn't generosity, but the organization's greedy act of protecting their OWN material interests.   (Matt 19:21; 2 Cor 9:9)
     
    Food banks are all over the U.S., Tom.   They are nothing new and reach out to thousands on a regular basis, not just during a pandemic.  
     
    Is Jesus nuts?  I have been watching "The Chosen".  They are dramas taking place in Jesus' day.  As 4Jah2me had pointed out, they are not accurate as far as scripture goes, but they have a message.  Here is one for you.  LISTEN to what Jesus tells the woman at the well.  If you put your faith in "organization", in a "mountain", and not in the Spirit of God, you show you have little faith.  Zech 4:6,7
     
     
     
  8. Like
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    TTH rabbits on worse that a squawking parrot. The Org does this the Org does that. Give it a rest Tom. 
    Here in the UK we have 'Food Banks' making up food parcels and distributing to households. There is even a teacher that makes up 'school meal' parcels and delivers them to pupils homes. None of those people are JWs. 
    There are probably millions of 'humanists' earthwide and here in UK  https://humanism.org.uk/
  9. Thanks
    Witness reacted to Ann O'Maly in Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"   
    "There was no governing body in the first century CE. Therefore, the present Governing Body has no legacy and should be dissolved." - p. 135.   😲   I know what you're all thinking: 'This is fake news, a hoax. He'd never say that.' But the book is available from his own Awatu Publishers via email for $10 (see Reddit link below). It's was only released a little over a week ago and is a hefty 337 pages long. He relates his long history in the org., that his issues have been brewing over the last 15 years, and what he says gels with what I know from various other sources - some of which are off-grid. While Furuli still believes JWs are the true religion and many core doctrines are correct (including 607!), he blasts the current GB for losing their way, being power- and money-grabbing, amongst other complaints, and he scripturally dismantles the FDS doctrine. He thinks the organization should be restructured so that it is theocratic like in the good old post-1971 days (I'm paraphrasing) rather than hierarchical like the Catholic church (yes, he refers to the Menlo Park court case). He says he approached the GB in the spirit of Matt. 18, and added that,    "The Governing Body received the book, and the members were
    informed that if the basic problems discussed in the book could be
    settled inside the organization, the book would not be published.
    The GB has refused to communicate with me and therefore the
    book has been published." - p. 14.   He knows full well what will happen to him which, I guess, will prove his point about the GB being autocratic and beyond questioning or correction.    Did anyone expect this bombshell? I certainly didn't! 😆   Here's the link to the Reddit discussion:    
  10. Thanks
    Witness reacted to JW Insider in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Just in case anyone wasn't aware, a few of JTR's recent posts had moved in this same direction, and I thought I'd share the entire song from which JTR referenced a couple of the lyrics. It struck me as too sad to respond immediately. Although I would not think it enough to draw any conclusions:
      "Seasons In The Sun"
    (originally by Jacques Brel)
    Terry Jacks (performer)
    Goodbye to you my trusted friend
    We've known each other since we were nine or ten
    Together we've climbed hills and trees
    Learned of love and ABCs
    Skinned our hearts and skinned our knees

    Goodbye my friend, it's hard to die
    When all the birds are singing in the sky
    Now that the spring is in the air
    Pretty girls are everywhere
    Think of me and I'll be there

    We had joy, we had fun
    We had seasons in the sun
    But the hills that we climbed
    Were just seasons out of time

    Goodbye papa, please pray for me
    I was the black sheep of the family
    You tried to teach me right from wrong
    Too much wine and too much song
    Wonder how I got along

    Goodbye papa, it's hard to die
    When all the birds are singing in the sky
    Now that the spring is in the air
    Little children everywhere
    When you see them, I'll be there

    We had joy, we had fun
    We had seasons in the sun
    But the wine and the song
    Like the seasons, have all gone

    We had joy, we had fun
    We had seasons in the sun
    But the wine and the song
    Like the seasons, have all gone

    Goodbye Michelle, my little one
    You gave me love and helped me find the sun
    And every time that I was down
    You would always come around
    And get my feet back on the ground

    Goodbye Michelle, it's hard to die
    When all the birds are singing in the sky
    Now that the spring is in the air
    With the flowers everywhere
    I wish that we could both be there

    We had joy, we had fun
    We had seasons in the sun
    But the stars we could reach
    Were just starfish on the beach

    We had joy, we had fun
    We had seasons in the sun
    But the stars we could reach
    Were just starfish on the beach

    We had joy, we had fun
    We had seasons in the sun
    But the wine and the song
    Like the seasons, have all gone

    All our lives we had fun
    We had seasons in the sun
    But the hills that we climbed
    Were just seasons out of time

    We had joy, we had fun
    We had seasons in the sun  
  11. Like
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Quote @Space Merchant I haven't see anything from you concerning Biblical Unitarianism. If so, give some insight because I see nothing of the sort from you.
    What Do Biblical Unitarians Believe? https://www.biblicalunitarian.com/articles/what-do-biblical-unitarians-believe   
    Please check out our website TruthOrTradition.com, which covers a variety of biblical topics and has an expanded Statement of Beliefs.
    What is Our Relationship with The Body of Christ?
    The Body of Christ is our family. Christians of every denomination are our brothers and sisters. We were each adopted into this family when we accepted Christ as our Lord. In Galatians 6:10, Christians are instructed to be “especially good to the household of faith,” and to do things particularly for “one another”—like bear one another’s burdens, be subject to one another, be devoted to one another, speak truth to one another, and love one another. We are also tasked with maintaining the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace. 
    Is this any good for a starter ? 
     
  12. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Sad, but true.  They forget, because they "follow" another way - through false christs and the organization/elder body.  The "center of searching" in this photo is certainly not the face of Christ.  
     
     

  13. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    HOW IT WORKS:
    https://www.ams.usda.gov/publications/content/farmers-families-food-box-program-faqs
  14. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Yes, it is interesting that only Abraham was "voiced" as God's  friend.  Yet, His expressions of love, especially for "Jacob"/Zion,  is stated all over the Bible.  Deut 7:6-9; 1 Kings 10:9; Ps 47:4
  15. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Quote @Space Merchant  "What some fail to see is that Jesus gave instruction on how the church is to function."
    In the 1st Century there was one Christian religion, as it should still be, but it isn't. 
    Now there are many different 'Christian' religions each with their own 'leaders'. 
    If I'm right in my thinking, your religion is more tolerant of others, but the CCJW is not. 
    You seem more tolerant of some other religions than JWs would be, because JWs are told there is only one way to serve God, and that is through the CCJW.  
     
  16. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Quote "That being said, this just shows you assume things without knowing."
    @Space Merchant  I assumed that you are not a JW and that you have a close relationship with God through Christ. 
    I also assumed that TTH believes that a person can only serve God through the CCJW 
  17. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    I believe how more practical reason for such "resisting" would be in this: If you give advice to someone, you bear responsibility for content of advice if person implements it in own life situation and things go bad. 
  18. Like
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Quote ..Because we don’t follow watchtower...no matter what others say....or try to infer on many of us here.
    That is so funny. No more than a month ago I was talking with an Elder on the telephone and I asked him about his view on something. His reply was that he would have to go and do some research on it. I wanted HIS viewpoint, not the Org's viewpoint, but i do know that JWs are told not to give their own personal viewpoint on anything relating to the Bible or the Org.  (been there, done that)
  19. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    I don't know where to begin.    Firstly, he mentioned "reinstatement" here:  
    When this actually happen, we don't really know.  He said above, "I have come to the conclusion that logic and reason is not the end-all that I had aspired to, and that all things being considered, it would have been better for me to be "Brother Watchtower", than the man I have become."  
    Perhaps since this reinstatement, he cannot fully accept the organization that you believe he should accept,  because he sees hypocrisy.  Anyone who can perceives this, has a conscience.  
    One JW here that I am certain you well respect, stated once that Christ transcends the organization.  If Christ does, so does God; which means that "Jehovah's organization" is not salvation.  You fit the term "Brother Watchtower" to the tee, since you cannot see this.  As much as I care for you also, I see your blindness toward scriptural truth.  
    Secondly, I am finding that many JWs have this agenda to personally ridicule anyone who rejects "organization" and brings out solid facts as to why.  They are not rejecting God or Jesus.  Your response in this regard is to ridicule the person and not the information they may provided. You can call me anything that comes to your mind, Tom. (and you have)  But, it really doesn't give you any ammunition of worth, unless you bring scriptural facts of the contrary, to the fore.  
    One more thing, since I have your attention:
    Don’t assume that I came to bring peace on the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to turn
    a man against his father,
    a daughter against her mother,
    a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
    36 and a man’s enemies will be
    the members of his household.
    37 The one who loves a father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; the one who loves a son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever doesn’t take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Anyone who finds his life will lose it, and anyone who loses his life because of me will find it.  Matt 10:34-39
  20. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    I don't know where to begin.    Firstly, he mentioned "reinstatement" here:  
    When this actually happen, we don't really know.  He said above, "I have come to the conclusion that logic and reason is not the end-all that I had aspired to, and that all things being considered, it would have been better for me to be "Brother Watchtower", than the man I have become."  
    Perhaps since this reinstatement, he cannot fully accept the organization that you believe he should accept,  because he sees hypocrisy.  Anyone who can perceives this, has a conscience.  
    One JW here that I am certain you well respect, stated once that Christ transcends the organization.  If Christ does, so does God; which means that "Jehovah's organization" is not salvation.  You fit the term "Brother Watchtower" to the tee, since you cannot see this.  As much as I care for you also, I see your blindness toward scriptural truth.  
    Secondly, I am finding that many JWs have this agenda to personally ridicule anyone who rejects "organization" and brings out solid facts as to why.  They are not rejecting God or Jesus.  Your response in this regard is to ridicule the person and not the information they may provided. You can call me anything that comes to your mind, Tom. (and you have)  But, it really doesn't give you any ammunition of worth, unless you bring scriptural facts of the contrary, to the fore.  
    One more thing, since I have your attention:
    Don’t assume that I came to bring peace on the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to turn
    a man against his father,
    a daughter against her mother,
    a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;
    36 and a man’s enemies will be
    the members of his household.
    37 The one who loves a father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; the one who loves a son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever doesn’t take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Anyone who finds his life will lose it, and anyone who loses his life because of me will find it.  Matt 10:34-39
  21. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    I will truly miss you, James.  
    Psalm 26
  22. Like
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    Yes @Space Merchant I do realise that Jesus has all authority and power given to him and that he leads God's people by the use of Holy Spirit.  
    The point i was making was that a person does not need to be guided by the CCJW or Watchtower or their GB.  I think in part you would agree with this ? You yourself are not a JW but you feel you have a close relationship with God through Christ. 
    Mr Harley seems to feel that a person has to be a JW and work inline with that organisation to be able to serve God. 
    @TrueTomHarley  I've noticed that you have changed your comment.  
  23. Like
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in ....and like Forest Gump said "... and that's all I am going to say about that."   
    @TrueTomHarley   He lost all his kids—none will speak with him. And for what? So as to spread every opposition taunt and insult about the earthly organization that Witness and 4Jah and Srecko and Shiwiiiiiiiiiiiiiii and Matthew4 5784 are perfectly content and capable to spread?  That is worth losing your family for?
    You are a writer, and like many writers you write in riddles. But the gist of the above is that James spread every opposition taunt and insult about the earthly organization that Witness and 4Jah and Srecko and Shiwiiiiiiiiiiiiiii and Matthew4 5784 are perfectly content and capable to spread? 
    James spoke truth. He didn't shy away from it. And if his children turned away from him for his speaking truth, then his children are at fault, not James. 
    And if you are still so spiritually immature that you need to be 'bottle fed' by your GB, and if you are brainwashed into believing that the CCJW have God's approval, then you seriously have a problem for yourself. 
    Its a good job the disciples didn't feel that they still needed to be bottle fed by the Scribes and the Pharisees after Jesus was no longer on Earth. After Jesus had been resurrected to heaven the disciples had no leader on earth. They relied on being guided from above, by Holy Spirit. 
  24. Like
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in I have barely seen a more stupid chart in my life   
    Quote TTH 
    This is always the case in any paper about anything. Everyone selects point of support. Nobody selects points that undermine their premise. I see no reason to spin it as though it were some sort of conspiracy. There is scarcely anyone who does not do it.
    BUT the CCJW & W/t,  say they are NO PART OF THE WORLD.  That is supposed to be the BIG difference. 
    Tom is just showing that they are really no different to any other religion or organisation in this world.. 
  25. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Jehovah’s Witnesses Sue FaithLeaks Owners Over Convention Videos   
    I quote you @Space Merchant  " Christians today, who are prophets, of any kind are not inspired and are not infallible and such makes up the majority of Non-Trinitarians today, even to our counterparts who are the Jehovah's Witnesses. Us Christians are Spirit led prophets, the ability to spread the gospel truth and the truth about the Messianic Age, for this is something of which he both have in common. "
     
    Well here are the 'uninspired prophets' of the Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses :-
     
    Jehovah's Witnesses[edit]
    Main article: Unfulfilled Watch Tower Society predictions Charles Taze Russell, the first president of the Watch Tower Society, calculated 1874 as the year of Christ's Second Coming, and taught that Christ was invisibly present and ruling from the heavens since that year.[13][14][15][16] Russell proclaimed Christ's invisible return in 1874,[17] the resurrection of the saints in 1875,[18] and predicted the end of the "harvest" and the Rapture of the saints to heaven for 1878,[19] and the final end of "the day of wrath" in 1914.[20] 1874 was considered the end of 6,000 years of human history and the beginning of judgment by Christ.[21] A 1917 Watch Tower Society publication predicted that in 1918, God would begin to destroy churches and millions of their members.[22]
    J.F. Rutherford, who succeeded Russell as president of the Watch Tower Society, predicted that the Millennium would begin in 1925, and that biblical figures such as Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and David would be resurrected as "princes". The Watch Tower Society bought property and built a house, Beth Sarim, in California for their return.[23]
    From 1966, statements in Jehovah's Witness publications raised strong expectations that Armageddon could arrive in 1975. In 1974 Witnesses were commended for selling their homes and property to "finish out the rest of their days in this old system" in full-time preaching.[24] In 1976 The Watchtower advised those who had been "disappointed" by unfulfilled expectations for 1975 to adjust their viewpoint because that understanding was "based on wrong premises".[25] Four years later, the Watch Tower Society admitted its responsibility in building up hope regarding 1975.[26]
    Do you think they were guided by God's Holy Spirit ?
    Deuteronomy 18 v 20 through 22.
    20  “‘If any prophet presumptuously speaks a word in my name that I did not command him to speak or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die.a 21  However, you may say in your heart: “How will we know that Jehovah has not spoken the word?” 22  When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him.’
    And do you think the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses are now guided by God's Holy Spirit ?
    Matthew 24 v 24 
     For false Christs and false prophetsa will arise and will perform great signs and wonders so as to mislead,b if possible, even the chosen ones
    Anyone that understands God's written word can preach the 'Good news of God's Kingdom' but to put a date or time on it is 'going beyond the things written'. And if a person should be of the Anointed heavenly calling then i would think by doing so they would be sinning against the spirit. 
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