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Witness

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  1. Upvote
    Witness reacted to JW Insider in 1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?   
    No. I've told the truth. Just because you oppose the truth, this does not make me a liar. Not once have you ever provided even a shred of evidence. Yet, I've probably made several mistakes over these last few years here. I would welcome any correction of any kind, and you've had 2.5 years under the name BillyTheKid46 to provide something.  It's rare that you have even made an attempt. Usually it's just bluster of the sort that claims you disagree and therefore anyone who disagrees with you must be a liar.
    LOL. I don't claim to come from Bethel. I come from California, Missouri, and New York, mostly. I happened to work at Bethel in Brooklyn, NY from 1976 to 1982. It's even on my old work resume. Telling the truth doesn't make me a liar and a hypocrite.
    Then you should think about it. It might be a refreshing change of pace. I think there would be a lot less haughtiness, dishonesty, pretentiousness and contentiousness.
    My comments can be used anywhere anyone wants to use them, with or without attribution. Several people have asked, and I've always said Yes. You can try to make a book out of these comments and sell it, for all I care. I've been requoted on a couple of apostate sites, and Witness pages, too. Jesus said to give to anyone who asks of you, and not turn away anyone who would borrow from you.
    And by the way, you claim that this site is an apostate site, and yet you directly contribute to it.
    Actually I would love for you to start showing people where I have manipulated or distorted Watchtower publications. I don't believe I have, but I'd be happy to discuss any places where you believe this has been the case, and I will gladly admit the mistakes and make the corrections wherever I was wrong. I should add, of course, that your own use of the literature appears to be blatantly manipulated and distorted. Even under this very topic you have made statements that appear to contradict the Watchtower's teachings, while evidently pretending that you agree with them or understand them.
  2. Thanks
    Witness reacted to JW Insider in 1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?   
    All of this issue goes away when we understand the way the terms were used in Russell's writings. We merely need to look at when Russell referenced the "great tribulation," rather than "Armageddon."
    Armageddon was to be a battle between "capitalists and workers." A kind of worldwide socialist revolution between the forces with money (including religion) and those who felt the economic antagonism, those who would fight and "strike" to be treated fairly, or get what they want --especially "labor." Here is a picture of Armageddon from the 1914 Photo Drama of Creation. These would be the first "battles" of Armageddon, until "crushed" by God's Kingdom within a matter of months after 1914.

    The most general view throughout most of the early Watchtower publications had been that the "great tribulation" would be in 1914. Then it became the few years leading up to 1914 and ending in 1914. Then, when they considered that the harvest (ending in 1914) should not be interrupted until the end of the harvest, they began teaching (in 1904) that the rest of the Bride/144,000 would expect to receive their heavenly reward in 1914, while the rest of the world fell into chaos and anarchy in the few months following October 1914, with no human institutions ruling anywhere in the world (except in Israel). As 1914 approached, there was more focus on 1915, and the months that followed -- or even a consideration (mostly dismissed) that 607 BCE (called 606 at the time) had been wrong and that it could be the more historically accurate date of 587/6 (called 588 below):
    Note the following from IBSA Expanded Biblical Comments [on Daniel] -- quoting Russell's writings:
    The impact is prominently noted throughout the Scriptures as a "time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation." (Dan. 12:1) OV83:T The little period of 40 years between 1874 and 1914 is, in the Scriptures, called the "Day of Vengeance," the smiting time preparatory to the inauguration of the Kingdom of righteousness. R1874:5 We expect this smiting in 1915, not 1914. Q96:4 If Zedekiah's dethronement should be dated BC 588, it would make the date 1932. My conviction, however, favors 1914. SM480:T This smiting, we believe, is near at hand (1915 comment) . . .
    Of course, the "Battle of Armageddon" is always associated with the "Great Tribulation," but the exact meaning behind this vocabulary has changed over the years. The following is from Russell's book "Thy Kingdom Come" (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol 3):
    The Scriptural time-proofs which we have considered show that this trouble was due to date from the time of Christ's second advent (October, 1874), when the judging of the nations would commence, under the enlightening influences of the Day of the Lord. This is shown in the Great Pyramid thus:
    The "Descending Passage," from the entrance of the Great Pyramid, leading to the "Pit" or "Subterranean Chamber," represents the course of the world in general (under the prince of this world), into the great time of trouble (the "Pit"), in which evil shall be brought to an end.. . . Then measuring down the "Entrance Passage" from that point, to find the distance to the entrance of the "Pit," representing the great trouble and destruction with which this age is to close, when evil will be overthrown from power, we find it to be 3457 inches, symbolizing 3457 years from the above date, B.C. 1542. This calculation shows A.D. 1915 as marking the beginning of the period of trouble; for 1542 years B.C. plus 1915 years A.D. equals 3457 years. Thus the Pyramid witnesses that the close of 1914 will be the beginning of the time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation—no, nor ever shall be afterward. And thus it will be noted that this "Witness" fully corroborates the Bible testimony on this subject, as shown by the "Parallel Dispensations" in Scripture Studies, Vol. II, Chap. VII.
    Nor should any doubt the fact that the forty years of "harvest" began in the fall of 1874 because the trouble has not yet reached so portentous and unendurable a stage; and because, in some respects, the "harvest" period since that date has been one of great advancement in knowledge. . . .
    Besides, we should remember that the Word of the Lord clearly shows that the judgments of this time of trouble will begin with the nominal Church, preparatory to its overthrow, and in the strife of selfishness between capital and labor, both of which are now organizing for the culminating trouble.
    To be even more pedantic, the "great tribulation" and the "time of trouble such as was not since there was a nation" were not always exactly the same thing either, since the "great tribulation" was seen a bit differently, depending on how it was to come upon each different class (Bride class, great company, the world). However, it's a simple matter to find at least a dozen specific references by Russell to the "great tribulation" starting in 1914. The Watchtower even held onto a version of this same view until fairly recently (last clarified in 2013), teaching that the "Great Tribulation" started in 1914 and had been cut short on account of the chosen ones back around 1918 to be started up again just prior to Armageddon.
    *** w13 7/15 pp. 3-4 par. 3 “Tell Us, When Will These Things Be?” ***
    For a number of years, we thought that the great tribulation began in 1914 with World War I and that “those days were cut short” by Jehovah in 1918 when the war ended so that the remnant would have the opportunity to preach the good news to all nations. (Matt. 24:21, 22) After the completion of that preaching work, Satan’s empire would be destroyed. Thus, the great tribulation was thought to have three phases: There would be a beginning (1914-1918), the tribulation would be interrupted (from 1918 onward), and it would conclude at Armageddon.
     
  3. Like
    Witness got a reaction from edvanguerra@hotmail.com in "Watchtower is selling LUXURY homes"   
    (No, I haven't taken time to download the nifty app., so just providing the link)
     
  4. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in 1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?   
    Well, thank you for correcting my idiocy. My source of this quote was incomplete.  But how does it prove to be a false claim? That 1914 was not predicted as the coming Armageddon and the ushering in of the Kingdom? 
    Under the same subheading:
    THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE KINGDOM,
    AND HOW IT WILL MANIFEST ITSELF
     "In our previous studies of the subject we learned that the “Times of the Gentiles,” which occupy the interim of time between the removal of the typical Kingdom from Israel and the full establishment of the true Messianic Kingdom upon the ruins of the present kingdoms, will end in October A.D. 1914.  We have seen that the period of our Lord’s presence from 1874 to 1914 is a “harvest” time, the [page 617] earlier part of it for gathering his elect bride, and the latter part a time of trouble, for the overthrow of present institutions, in preparation for the new Kingdom."  
  5. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in 1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?   
    "Yes, the end of this system is so very near! Is that not reason to increase our activity?...Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end." (Kingdom Ministry, May 1974, p. 3) 
    "It may be that some who have been serving God have planned their lives according to a mistaken view of just what was to happen on a certain date or in a certain year. They may have, for this reason, put off or neglected things that they otherwise would have cared for. But they have missed the point of the Bibles warnings concerning the end of this system of things, thinking that Bible chronology reveals the specific date." (Watchtower, July 15, 1976, p. 440)
     
     "Does this admission of making mistakes stamp them [Watchtower] as false prophets? Not at all, for false prophets do not admit to making mistakes." (Watchtower, Nov. 1, 1972, p. 644)
     
     
     
     
  6. Upvote
    Witness reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in 1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?   
    For those in Rio Linda, the preceding post was a synopsis of everything "1975".
    That quote from the 1974 Kingdom Ministry, for anybody above the thinking ability of a chicken, says it all about, did the Society REALLY expect 1975 to be the end of this System, and Armageddon?
    THE ONLY OTHER CHOICE is that it was a deliberate money-grubbing fraud, and they KNEW they were telling a lie.

    Choose!
  7. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in 1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?   
    "Yes, the end of this system is so very near! Is that not reason to increase our activity?...Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end." (Kingdom Ministry, May 1974, p. 3) 
    "It may be that some who have been serving God have planned their lives according to a mistaken view of just what was to happen on a certain date or in a certain year. They may have, for this reason, put off or neglected things that they otherwise would have cared for. But they have missed the point of the Bibles warnings concerning the end of this system of things, thinking that Bible chronology reveals the specific date." (Watchtower, July 15, 1976, p. 440)
     
     "Does this admission of making mistakes stamp them [Watchtower] as false prophets? Not at all, for false prophets do not admit to making mistakes." (Watchtower, Nov. 1, 1972, p. 644)
     
     
     
     
  8. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Foreigner in 1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?   
    I agree with you.  And yes, they were very clever in their wording, and when it failed the congregants were blamed for anticipating the end to come in 1975.  This is oppression and loud deceit, no matter how it is presented.   When I wanted to become a JW, I told my Catholic father of my plan, and he became very angry.  He immediately related the story of a farmer and his family, whose tractor implements he frequently worked on.  He was outraged that this family sold their property and all goods with it; only to be found without the ability to support the family after the passing of 1975.  The world saw the proclamation through newspaper articles, and from JWs they may have come in contact with.  The world was aware of the effect that it had on them. 
    Can we make a suggestive statement without getting directly to the point? People do it all the time, and usually the listener gets the picture.   In the WT leader’s hearts, was the date of 1975 for Armageddon.  In order for them to save face in case it failed (which has helped not at all to those who realize their strategy), they had to devise, as you somewhat implied, a dishonest way to go about it.  Satan did the same thing with Eve. 
    What is very sad is that the leaders get away with this deception by twisting the results to reflect on the sheep as guilty ones.    Down to this day, as we’ve seen in a few comments, JWs hold WT leaders in high esteem, parroting what they have been told by the leaders, concerning the date.  BTK is one of them, when in his heart he certainly must know what motivated the hints they dropped, surrounding 1975.  Why is the argument made that they never said directly, a date, if not to defend the guilty ones?  How can an organization claim to follow God's laws when the leaders are full of deceit?  Amos 2:4-5
    The effect of this on God’s people is never excused by Him. He will not clear the oppressors of guilt, as they have for themselves. 
  9. Downvote
    Witness got a reaction from Foreigner in 1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?   
    Because…birds of a feather flock together.
    Here is a handful of Russell's "signals":
    "In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that the date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove; Firstly, that at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, Thy Kingdom come, will obtain full, universal control, and that it will then be set up, or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions." (The Time Is At Hand, 1888, p. 76, 77)
    "Remember that the forty years' Jewish Harvest ended October A.D. 69, and was followed by the complete overthrow of that nation; and that likewise the forty years of the Gospel age harvest will end October, 1914, and that likewise the overthrow of 'Christendom,' so-called, must be expected to immediately follow." (1889 Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 245)
    "Complete destruction of the 'powers that be' of 'this present evil worlds - political, financial, ecclesiastical - about the close of the Time of the Gentiles; October A.D. 1914." (C.T. Russell, Studies in the Scriptures, IV, p. 622, 1897)
    "Be not surprised, then, when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty (Rev. 16:14) which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced. The gathering of the armies is plainly visible from the standpoint of God's word." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, The Time Is At Hand, 1889 Ed., p. 101. The 1915 Edition of this texts changed "A.D. 1914" to read 'A.D. 1915')
    "In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914." (The Time Is At Hand, 1902 edition, p. 99)
    "When Uranus and Jupiter meet in the humane sign of Aquarius in 1914, the long-promised era will have made a fair start in the work of setting man free to work out his own salvation, and will insure the ultimate realization of dreams and ideals of all poets and sages in history." (Watchtower, May 1, 1903, p. 130-131; p3184 Reprints)
    You would compare the pope's vision of 1975 as a "new birth", to give credence to Watchtower's validation of 1975.  Incredible.  
    Yes, birds of a feather flock together. 
    Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.   Matt 12:38,39
    Then Jesus said to him, “Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe.”  John 4:48
    Matt 13:10-17
     
    "The Sign of the Son of Man" - 4womaninthewilderness blogspot
     
     
     
  10. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in 1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?   
    Of course they would.  It's based on the promise of a paradise which is promoted as relief from the conditions of this world. 
    The word "hinted" is the word of the day, as JWInsider showed us:
    I don't know why you just don't accept it for what it is, BTK  You squirm and change the subject when proof is put in front of you.  This is most likely what JWs in general do; along with, ignoring it all together.  God doesn't ignore what His people are up to.  Why should we turn our eye away from the facts?
    “Shortly, within our twentieth century, the ‘battle in the day of Jehovah’ will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." (The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah; 1971; 2nd ed.; p. 216)
    Read it as you like, twist it a million different ways.  At the end of the day, Armageddon was projected to come in 1975.   What you are doing well, is assisting in exposing the lies when others refute your claim.  This helps other JWs hopefully see (if they care to open their eyes), the Watchtower's sins.  
    Pure Worship of Jehovah – Restored at Last
    "In the past, our literature has referred to Christendom as the antitype of apostate Jerusalem. The conditions in unfaithful Jerusalem—including idolatry and widespread corruption—certainly remind us of what is happening in Christendom. However, in recent years our publications, including the one you are now reading, have not taken the type-antitype approach to prophecy except where the Bible provides a clear basis for doing so. Is there a solid Scriptural basis for referring to Christendom as the antitypical Jerusalem? No.
    Consider the following: Jerusalem was at one time a center of pure worship; later, its inhabitants turned apostate. By contrast, Christendom has never practiced pure worship. Right from its inception in the fourth century C.E., Christendom has always taught false doctrine.
    In addition, after Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians, Jehovah restored the city to his favor and it again became the center of true worship. Christendom, on the other hand, has never had God’s favor, and once it is destroyed during the great tribulation, it will never rise again.
    In view of the foregoing, what may we conclude? When we examine Bible prophecies that were fulfilled on unfaithful Jerusalem, we may say, ‘This or that reminds us of what we see in Christendom today.’ But there appears to be no Scriptural basis for referring to Christendom as the antitypical Jerusalem."
     
    Not only is the “prophesy” made in the book from 1971, false, but so is the reference to Christendom.  These are two misleading lies.  Only one, they gave a half-hearted attempt to correct.   Is Christendom the only entity to be “destroyed” for teaching false doctrine?  From the very beginning the Wt. has taught false doctrine.  Would God lower His standards concerning truth, to accommodate the sins of His people?  He has never done that, but removed His protective Spirit and allowed affliction to come upon them when they swerved from faithful worship in truth. Deut 11:26-28; Ezek 9:8,10   This is having fulfillment in the “spirit-directed organization”/Beast (Rev 13:1,2) as it struggles to maintain peace inside, while its actions on the worldly front are being are called into question.  How will its judgment be concluded on the spiritual front when Christ judges?  Rev 20:7-10  Will they fair better than Christendom?  To believe that, is pure deception.  2 Thess 2:9-12
    The “city of the great King” was Jerusalem, and referred to as Zion.    Matt 5:35; Ps 48:2   The “city” in Revelation that we are to leave, is not Christendom, but where those under the New Covenant/woman/Temple representatives, reside. (Rev 11:1-3; Rev 18:16,18; 13:4)   Jerusalem was guilty of shedding innocent blood.  Matt 23:35  So too, is the wayward “New Jerusalem” turned apostate by a false prophet (Rev 13:11,12,14-17) that directs the "killing" of those who leave its false teachings.  Rev 11:1-3,7,8; 18:24; 17:18; (Rev 1:5); 13:15
    “New Jerusalem”/Zion’s “living stones” (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22) is restored not through the organization's existence, but through the “faithful” anointed found outside the apostate city/”Sodom”.  Isa 1:25-27; Zech 13:9; Mal 3:3; Zech 4:9,6,12,14; Rev 11:4,3; Rev 3:12; 21:2; Ps 48:8    
     Judgment begins with God’s “House”/dwelling (1 Cor 3:16,17; 6:19,20; 2 Cor 6:16) sifting those within it, who obey from those who do not. 1 Pet 4:17-19 Those who remain in the “city”, risk condemnation. Jer 23:14; Lam 4:6; Rom 9:29; Rev 18:4
     
     
     
     
  11. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in 1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?   
    I am confused. Do you support WT Society and their doctrines or not ? What ever your answer will be, i respect your choice. But, from your comments, from time to time, from subject to subject, your speaking is not in harmony with JW Organization teachings. :))
    Or perhaps, this "Sabbath" issue was changed in WT Theology from 2015 until now?  
  12. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Matthew9969 in 1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?   
    Maybe 1975 was overlapping with 2075
  13. Upvote
    Witness reacted to JW Insider in 1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?   
    "Millions now living will never die!"  (WT publications: 1918-1925) "If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things." (WT publication: Awake! 5/22/1969) These two prophecies are nearly equivalent, and were both made for very similar reasons, although under different circumstances.
  14. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in 1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?   
    Because…birds of a feather flock together.
    Here is a handful of Russell's "signals":
    "In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that the date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove; Firstly, that at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, Thy Kingdom come, will obtain full, universal control, and that it will then be set up, or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions." (The Time Is At Hand, 1888, p. 76, 77)
    "Remember that the forty years' Jewish Harvest ended October A.D. 69, and was followed by the complete overthrow of that nation; and that likewise the forty years of the Gospel age harvest will end October, 1914, and that likewise the overthrow of 'Christendom,' so-called, must be expected to immediately follow." (1889 Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 245)
    "Complete destruction of the 'powers that be' of 'this present evil worlds - political, financial, ecclesiastical - about the close of the Time of the Gentiles; October A.D. 1914." (C.T. Russell, Studies in the Scriptures, IV, p. 622, 1897)
    "Be not surprised, then, when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty (Rev. 16:14) which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced. The gathering of the armies is plainly visible from the standpoint of God's word." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, The Time Is At Hand, 1889 Ed., p. 101. The 1915 Edition of this texts changed "A.D. 1914" to read 'A.D. 1915')
    "In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914." (The Time Is At Hand, 1902 edition, p. 99)
    "When Uranus and Jupiter meet in the humane sign of Aquarius in 1914, the long-promised era will have made a fair start in the work of setting man free to work out his own salvation, and will insure the ultimate realization of dreams and ideals of all poets and sages in history." (Watchtower, May 1, 1903, p. 130-131; p3184 Reprints)
    You would compare the pope's vision of 1975 as a "new birth", to give credence to Watchtower's validation of 1975.  Incredible.  
    Yes, birds of a feather flock together. 
    Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.   Matt 12:38,39
    Then Jesus said to him, “Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe.”  John 4:48
    Matt 13:10-17
     
    "The Sign of the Son of Man" - 4womaninthewilderness blogspot
     
     
     
  15. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in 1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?   
    Indeed, and how I wish all JWs could see its message.  
    2 “Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who prophesy, and say to those who prophesy out of their own heart, ‘Hear the word of the Lord!’ ”
    Therefore thus says the Lord God: “Because you have spoken nonsense and envisioned lies, therefore I am indeed against you,” says the Lord God.”
     “Because with lies you have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and you have strengthened the hands of the wicked, so that he does not turn from his wicked way to save his life. 23 Therefore you shall no longer envision futility nor practice divination; for I will deliver My people out of your hand, and you shall know that I am the Lord.” ’ ”
    Ezek 13:4,8,22,23
    Rev 18:4-8
  16. Upvote
    Witness reacted to JW Insider in 1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?   
    We are all presumably looking forward to it, but if we are participating in service activities or increasing our service activity because of a belief that it will happen in a specific century, then we are also serving with a date in mind.
    Back to this point again for a minute. This is similar to saying: It doesn't matter that we were teaching a falsehood, at least a lot of these little ones were stumbled.
    Do we really thing that God wanted to test us with false doctrines?
    13 When under trial,+ let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone.
  17. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in 1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?   
    “…that this process would no longer be needed”  It appears you are referring to the process of devising, planning and proclaiming, false prophesy.  Good for the WT, they “stopped advertising any prophetic events after 1984”.  They stopped misleading millions of lives with the promise of Armageddon to come on a certain date.  And this makes them “righteous” in front of God?  Is this a sort of natural selection necessary to sift out the unworthy ones over the years, preserving those who blindly continue to listened to their leaders?  Matt 15:14
    “…because of the 1975 fiasco”
    Fiasco - a thing that is a complete failure, especially in a ludicrous or humiliating way.
    “…the Watchtower would no longer print such enlightenment”
    Enlightenment – understanding, insight, education, learning, knowledge, awareness, information, erudition, wisdom, instruction, teaching, illumination, light, edification…
    Spiritual enlightenment from a “righteous” person would not be a complete failure, or ludicrous; since Christ would be the source of such insight.
    “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.” Matt 5:14-16
    Prophetic fiascos are not “good works”, but prove your leaders do not have the light of Christ within them.  WT's failures do not glorify God, whatsoever.  One demeans the very persona of God and Christ, to believe they tolerate such lies, from the tongues of those who speak them.    Jer 23:16; Rev 16:13,14
    “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.”  John 15:5
    False prophesy is worthless - it is nothing.  No spiritual growth can be gleaned from lies; since they have their beginning with the father of the lie.  John 8:44
    “…Because God never really gave you insight, and now as an opposer even less.”
    I have enough spiritual insight to respect the Word of God over those of men who have tickled the ears of many ( 2 Tim 4:3,4); spreading their false prophesy with excuses attached -  words perceived as having higher value than the Word of Christ and the Father.
    “The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear, 16 according to all you desired of the Lord your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, nor let me see this great fire anymore, lest I die.’
    17 “And the Lord said to me: ‘What they have spoken is good. 18 I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. 19 And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him. 20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, (“Jehovah’s organization”) that prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.’”  Deut 18:15-22
    "The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."  2 Thess 2:9-12
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
  18. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in 1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?   
    http://www.theocraticcollector.com/1969_-_Awake.pdf
    Awake 1969, May 22, pages 14,15  (302 and 303/768)
    Author of article, under authorization of Top Spiritual Leadership, "prophesied" how world will end in next few years.
    Now and  today you @BillyTheKid46 made claim how GB will never again do the same mistake? :))) And we doing good if we believe you? :))
     
     
     
  19. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in 1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?   
    :)))) such enlightenment 
    ....but "life-saving information" have to come from WT Society and have to be spread among members despite 1975 err. If they will not do it again (to warn people about imminent end and danger) how and when will people go to basement and hide?? :))
  20. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in 1975 was in the past. Are we HONEST about it TODAY?   
    This is quite the can of worms.  I thought you were a big proponent of 1914.  Although I totally agree with you that “birth pains” leading to the coming Kingdom of God are happening now (but not based on 1975 – Matt 24:3; Rev 3:3), either Watchtower’s prophetic timeline is wrong, or you are wrong according to their prophetic timeline.
    1925: “Birth of the Nation”—made plain the prophecies showing that God’s Kingdom was born in 1914 w/87/3/1
    The evidence already considered proves that A.D. 1914 God’s kingdom was born and his Son was enthroned with authority to rule with an iron rod amid his foes. ka chap. 11 pp. 183-211
    According to your organization, the birth pains have come and gone. But, scripture doesn't tell us of two birthings,  so they get around this by translating Matt 24:8 by saying "pangs of distress".  
    And the end times?  Apparently that also began in 1914:
    “The conclusion of the system of things” began in 1914. During the war that broke out that year, the few thousand anointed Christians, “the sons of the Kingdom,” were in spiritual captivity to Babylon the Great. In 1919, Jehovah delivered them, making a clear distinction between them and “the weeds,” or imitation Christians. He gathered “the sons of the Kingdom” into an organized people, in fulfillment of Isaiah’s prophecy: “Will a land be brought to birth in one day? Or will a nation be born all at once? Yet, as soon as Zion went into labor, she gave birth to her sons.” (Isa. 66:8) Zion, Jehovah’s organization of spirit beings, brought forth her spirit-anointed sons and organized them into a nation. w14 11/15 p. 25-26 
    Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.  Matt 24:4-8
    Yes, the New Covenant woman/promise is experiencing “birth pains”.  Rev 12:2; Gal 4:26  This promise of life brings forth the woman’s “seed” - God’s Kingdom heirs. Rev 12:5; 2:26,27  The Kingdom arrives once the appropriate number of faithful priests are sealed.  Eph 1:10; Rev 12:10,11;7:4
    “Watch out that no one deceives you”.  Satan is behind the deceit that he places before the Kingdom’s potential heirs, causing their complacency and inattentiveness to Christ's arrival.  Rev 11:1,2 The “birth pains” of Matt 24 have nothing to do with politics or the world, (Eph 6:12) but has everything to do with the heirs’ ability to recognize Satan’s deception (2 Thess 2:3,4,9-12) and crush his accusations made against them.  Luke 22:31; Matt 24:21,22; Luke 21:36
    It isn't the activity found in Satan's world that gives birth to the Kingdom. 
    Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."  John 18:36
  21. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from JW Insider in SEEING IS BELIEVING   
    True miracles can happen in the daily life of a devout Christian.  There is no record kept by those who served Christ and the Father faithfully over the last 2,000 years to say they never saw a "miracle".   These are an individual's "powerful signs" personally received.  Acts 2:17
  22. Like
    Witness reacted to Matthew9969 in Do not trust .....WHO?   
    Does Jesus entrust perfect truth/food, or imperfect truth?
  23. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Everybody agreed they were guilty’: $35M verdict against Jehovah’s Witnesses   
    It is EVIL that lurks in the darkness, hiding its dirty deeds.  Righteousness, which results from the light of Christ, has no reason to hide anything.  If an entire entity is bent on covering evil acts, righteousness would not exist within it. 
    Evil wears two faces; one is authentic darkness, one is a fabrication of light and righteousness.  2 Cor 11:3,4,13-15
    Luke 8:17; 2 Cor 6:14; Acts 26:18; Eph 5:8
     
  24. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Shiwiii in Everybody agreed they were guilty’: $35M verdict against Jehovah’s Witnesses   
    It is EVIL that lurks in the darkness, hiding its dirty deeds.  Righteousness, which results from the light of Christ, has no reason to hide anything.  If an entire entity is bent on covering evil acts, righteousness would not exist within it. 
    Evil wears two faces; one is authentic darkness, one is a fabrication of light and righteousness.  2 Cor 11:3,4,13-15
    Luke 8:17; 2 Cor 6:14; Acts 26:18; Eph 5:8
     
  25. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in JWs want Supreme Court to help them cover up Child Abuse !!   
    A comment on this article and its writer, by John Redwood:
    Thanks to Hemant Mehta for picking up my JW Survey article about the JW v Watchtower case and Watchtower's appeal to the US Supreme Court.
    Hemant has a brilliant and unique perspective on life, which is why he comes up with some bold titles for his articles.
    Take this one for example:
    "The Jehovah's Witnesses Want the Supreme Court to Help Them Cover Up Sex Abuse"
    I would like to address this title- because it's EXACTLY the kind of headline Watchtower will call an "Apostate-Driven Lie."
    From the standpoint of Watchtower - this title is false and an absolute fabrication. They would say that under no circumstances do they wish to cover up child abuse. Would they be correct?
    If one of their elders called headquarters and asked whether this is true or not- headquarters would tell them absolutely not. They would say that they endeavor at all times to cooperate with law enforcement, as stated in their May 2019 Watchtower article about child abuse. They would say that they only keep records of child molesters to protect the congregation, and they should be applauded for their diligence in keeping such situations under control.
    So, the elder would hang up the phone satisfied that the JW organization he represents does everything possible to protect children, and that they are not covering up anything.
    Hence, he would now go back to his fellow elders and congregation members and say "You see brothers, Satan is really working through the media and is trying very hard to spread these false apostate lies about our organization. We must avoid apostates at all costs, and always turn off the TV when we see such reports"
    This is how Jehovah's Witnesses are manipulated and controlled into believing that all false reports and headlines like this are blatant Satanic lies.
    It's very subtle.
    Witnesses trust their elders, and the elders trust the organization's leaders, and if those leaders tell them its all lies- they believe it and bring this message back to the flock. Average rank and file Jehovah's Witnesses do not have direct connectivity with the Watchtower legal and Service Departments. Even if they did, they would not get answers and would be told that these matters are being handled by responsible brothers who have prayed for Jehovah's direction - so let's leave the matter in Jehovah's hands.
    Meanwhile- the headlines are true.
    When Hemant says the JWs want help covering up child abuse, he's not wrong.
    Is the title click-bait? Maybe. But why shouldn't it be? Journalists use catchy titles to grab people's attention. The real question we must ask is "Does the article have the facts to back up the title?"
    And in the answer is: Absolutely yes.
     
    This is why Jehovah's Witnesses are on the verge of falling into the chasm of no return, the abyss of disgrace.
    The facts could not be any more clear: Jehovah's Witnesses have openly admitted that they collect data from every congregation in the world related to child abusers and their victims, and they openly admit that they have no desire to turn this information over to criminal and civil authorities.
    Period. It's just that simple.
    Read their Supreme Court appeal. They are using the United States Constitution as a cover for concealing what they call confidential communications, or "privileged" communications.
    it's one thing to say that the confession of a guilty person to their pastor or elder is privileged communication - but it's entirely another matter when three dozen pastors all know about and investigate the crimes committed, and they all claim that it must never be shared with the authorities - or even the families of the victims.
    If that's not a cover-up, I don't know what is.
    Facts are facts, and at the end of the day, it all comes down to whose side are you on- the side of truth and transparency, or the side of protecting the reputation and assets of a religion.
    If we learned anything from the movie Spotlight, it's that we don't want to be on the wrong side of this.
     
     
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