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Witness

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  1. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in WHITEWASH   
    Now the blood shall be a sign for you on the houses where you are.And when I see the blood, I will pass over you; and the plague shall not be on you to destroy you when I strike the land of Egypt.  Exod 12:13
     For the Lord will pass through to strike the Egyptians; and when He sees the blood on the lintel and on the two doorposts, the Lord will pass over the door and not allow the destroyer to come into your houses to strike you.  Exod 12:23
    The Lord (His Spirit)  passes over Israel  and passes through the Egyptians.  He allows Satan the Destroyer, to strike.   Obviously, you desire the destroyer  to be God or Jesus Christ...regardless of what the scriptures say. 
    By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.  Heb 11:28
     
     
  2. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in WHITEWASH   
    It seems how @Space Merchant and @Equivocation  find common religious language on this and other topics. I wonder does this belong to "interfaith dialogue" because two members of different, even opposite religions support each other in doctrinal matters. :)) As i know JW Church forbidden to his members any kind of Ecumenism :)) 
       
    Equivocation (also known as: doublespeak)
  3. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in JW’s are now allowed to have beards and publicly preach....   
    I am so sorry.  My bearded husband suffered similar; persuaded by the elder body to become a ministerial servant and then an elder; as they recognized his abilities to “lead”, and their dire need for someone who could.  Then, beat up by other elders for having one…for a good many years.  He was even accused of turning a congregation “apostate”.  It is no wonder our children refuse to search out truth, since they saw only distress and suffering put upon their parents by the treacherous acts of “Jehovah’s organization”. 
    Isa 28:5-13
  4. Thanks
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in JW’s are now allowed to have beards and publicly preach....   
    I am so sorry.  My bearded husband suffered similar; persuaded by the elder body to become a ministerial servant and then an elder; as they recognized his abilities to “lead”, and their dire need for someone who could.  Then, beat up by other elders for having one…for a good many years.  He was even accused of turning a congregation “apostate”.  It is no wonder our children refuse to search out truth, since they saw only distress and suffering put upon their parents by the treacherous acts of “Jehovah’s organization”. 
    Isa 28:5-13
  5. Sad
    Witness reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in JW’s are now allowed to have beards and publicly preach....   
    To make a very long story very short, almost to the point of abbreviation .... and trying to stay on topic ....
    In the past 57 years, I have been in the "little back room, Room 101", about 17 times, being "counseled" by Elders that did not like "something" about me ... that I worked a lot of overtime, that I rode a Honda 350 motorcycle to the Kingdom Hall, that I "refused" to provide a telephone for my wife,  ad nauseum ... and I REALLY HATE BULLIES! ... but I digress ... and about 8 or so of those times it was to get me to cut off my beard.  One time it was because of my mustache. During the 60's it was because my hair came down just perceptively below the collar.
    In one congregation in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, I had no problem with the beard ... and even got a recommendation letter to go work at the Bethel Branch Office construction in Peru ... and in all others, I was castigated, and even forbidden to go out in Service until I shaved off my beard.
    After eight discussions, and no valid scriptural reasoning, all joy in doing what I was doing was destroyed ... but it bothered me A LOT that stuff like this was being inflicted on the global Brotherhood, in almost EVERY congregation I had ever attended. 
    If they could do it to me... they WERE doing it to other Brothers ... and things similar to this.
    Based on all available real evidence, it seemed to me that in order to be a watchtower approved Elder you had to be qualified as follows:
    1.) clueless
    2.) petty
    3.) irrational
    4.be a "Company Man", through and through.
    5.) and have no pangs of conscience whatsoever for being a bully.
    To be fair, I have also run across Engineers and Doctors that shared these traits, but they did not operate in an environment that ENCOURAGED this behavior.
    The other day I mentioned in a comment that I envied Anna, and she replied that she knew that ... because she still seems to have the joy in the Truth that has been systematically beaten out of me.
    I miss the man I used to be.
    A lot!
    I did have a choice, however ... either "get with the program", or keep my self respect.
    It has gotten better over the years, but only marginally, but I have endured things far, far worse that these things I have mentioned ... and I will endure things like this also.
    When my Dad died, about ten years ago, he asked me to shave off my beard ...  he also never liked it .... and  I have been clean shaven since then.
    I loved my Dad.
    I HATE BULLIES!
    I am 72 now, and in marginal health .... and can see the end of the "conveyor belt" on which I stand, and it bothers me.
    I am too old and fragile to carry on my back bags of heavy stones for someone else's entertainment.
     
     
     
     
  6. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in WHITEWASH   
    If @Jeff Danby is a JW, you have thoroughly confused him, since he believes that “Israel” is comprised of the anointed ones, as do I.    That may soon change with shocking “new light” when “Jehovah’s spiritual temple”/organization/idol becomes known as “Israel”.  Will you be ready for baptism then?
     
     
    Exod 12:23 - "When the Lord passes through to strike Egypt and sees the blood on the lintel and the two doorposts, he will pass over the door and not let the destroyer enter your houses to strike you."
    Heb 11:28 -  "By faith he instituted the Passover and the sprinkling of the blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn might not touch the Israelites."
    Isa 14:12 - "Shining morning star, how you have fallen from the heavens! You destroyer of nations, you have been cut down to the ground."
    Isa 33:1 - "Woe, you destroyer never destroyed, you traitor never betrayed! When you have finished destroying, you will be destroyed. When you have finished betraying, they will betray you."
    God, and Christ are our judge, not our executioner.  
  7. Haha
    Witness got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in The Man of Lawlessness in the 21st Century   
    You were proposing a theory without knowing the facts; the primary one being the definition of God's Temple.  Tell you what, the next time I feel obligated to comment on a post you may start or address one of your comments, I won't address you directly, but will say something like "TTH said,....."  Oh, and I'll try to remember to add, "I believe it is this way."  I may forget; I am reaching 63 years.  
    "good anointed"   If you were at the door in your preaching work, and you engaged in a conversation about the trinity, would you feel you were a "good JW" by presenting them with truth from the Bible?    Perhaps you would, but you knew there were pertinent scriptures to present, and felt the need to show the person where he erred.    I have no feeling of being "good", but anxious about doing God's will properly, by speaking truth.  When Christ judges each one of us, then we will know who is "good".   
    "In the same way, when you have done all that you were commanded, you should say, ‘We are worthless servants; we’ve only done our duty.’”  Luke 17:10
    You might want to check on the GB though.  They are re-emphasizing they will soon be going to "heaven", leaving all of you behind with the elders.  Notice, only they will be going.  They must be good anointed ones  The rest of the anointed...well, the GB could care less.  
  8. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in The Man of Lawlessness in the 21st Century   
    he sits down in the temple of God
    TTH, in what Temple of God, and where is this Temple of God, where your Atheistic Man siting? 
    I would assume how Paul was talking about Christ Church as Temple?! Or you have another perspective?
    If we take this thought as new way of thinking, then we can say that one Class of man existing in WT Society (because JW people believe how this Organization is God's Temple on Earth) that acting as god , showing himself to be a god, and governing over God's people.
    So, this fits well in your idea of Atheistic Man who negate any divinity to any other gods, but consider themselves as god. In final result they are atheistic, as you suggest, because atheism in their own eyes/mind, annuls the existence of any other god - in fact reverses the existence of any other god on them alone to be god.
    But term Atheistic, in lexical meaning, refers to person who not believe in existence of god as supreme being. By this general, and acceptable meaning of word "atheist", this idea of yours Atheistic man who sits in Temple, will be of short living. Maybe, you will find another name or substitution name for Man of Lawlessness. :)) 
  9. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in The Man of Lawlessness in the 21st Century   
    You began at verse 3.  Before this, the NWT says,
     However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you 2  not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here.
    Here, the translators took the liberty of changing the coming presence of “our Lord Jesus Christ” to the “day of Jehovah”. 
    “Now we beg you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to him,
    2 that ye be not soon shaken in mind, nor troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter, as [if it were] by us, as that the day of the Lord is present. (Darby)
    “This day began in 1914 when Jesus was installed as King of God’s Kingdom. And it will continue right through to the end of the Thousand Year Reign, when Christ will ‘hand over the kingdom to his God and Father.’ (1 Corinthians 15:24) Faithful Christians have looked forward to the Lord’s day for many centuries. Now, it is finally here!  Wt 88/10/15  pp. 10-15
    ….”either by an inspired statement or a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us”…
    If the letter appeared to be from true anointed ones, but really is not, then it comes from the pen of false “christs” – fallen anointed leaders, who have “gathered together”, the anointed to hear and be stumbled by, their false claim.
    Matt 24:24; Rev 13:11,14-18,7 
    This is part of the sign of the "man of lawlessness".  Today, the anointed (TEMPLE ) submit to a "Gentile" rule - elder body - supplanted over them.  2 Thess 2:4; Rev 11:1,2  (1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22)
     
     
     
     
  10. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in The Man of Lawlessness in the 21st Century   
    Does everyone who leaves the WT become Trinitarians and hellfire advocates?  Speaking of hellfire, JWs do not believe this, yet on the same footing,  believe God will destroy mankind (man, woman and child) with a descriptive, well-illustrated, "hellfire" at the culmination of Armageddon.  This appears to be an "apostate" teaching.  Jer 19:5  Apostate teachings are "lawlessness", as well as all discarded teachings of JWs which reflect lawlessness against Christ's teachings.  John 15:16
     
     
  11. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in The Man of Lawlessness in the 21st Century   
    Thank you John.  Even more so, it is the GB's personal "clergy", that replaces God's anointed priests.  Matt 24:48-51
     
  12. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in The Man of Lawlessness in the 21st Century   
    What is the "temple of God"?  
    "sits" -  "to make, to sit down, to set, appoint, to confer a kingdom on one"
    Something/someone is exalting itself over the temple of God.  If you know what the temple of God is, then you can determine the identity of the man of lawlessness.  
     
     
     
  13. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in The Man of Lawlessness in the 21st Century   
    Thank you John.  Even more so, it is the GB's personal "clergy", that replaces God's anointed priests.  Matt 24:48-51
     
  14. Haha
  15. Like
    Witness reacted to JOHN BUTLER in The Man of Lawlessness in the 21st Century   
    He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god.
    This has to be the GB of JW Org. They have exalted themselves above every other human on this earth. Above all of the true Anointed. Even to a point above Jesus Christ. 
  16. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in The Man of Lawlessness in the 21st Century   
    What is the "temple of God"?  
    "sits" -  "to make, to sit down, to set, appoint, to confer a kingdom on one"
    Something/someone is exalting itself over the temple of God.  If you know what the temple of God is, then you can determine the identity of the man of lawlessness.  
     
     
     
  17. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in WHAT DID YOU LEARN THAT WAS NEW AT THE 2019 "LOVE NEVER FAILS" REGIONAL CONVENTION ?   
    And so the Lord says,
        “These people say they are mine.
    They honor me with their lips,
        but their hearts are far from me.
    And their worship of me
        is nothing but man-made rules learned by rote.  Isa 29:13
    ("Greek version reads Their worship is a farce, / for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.Compare Mark 7:7")
     
  18. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in WHAT DID YOU LEARN THAT WAS NEW AT THE 2019 "LOVE NEVER FAILS" REGIONAL CONVENTION ?   
    And so the Lord says,
        “These people say they are mine.
    They honor me with their lips,
        but their hearts are far from me.
    And their worship of me
        is nothing but man-made rules learned by rote.  Isa 29:13
    ("Greek version reads Their worship is a farce, / for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.Compare Mark 7:7")
     
  19. Upvote
    Witness got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in WHAT DID YOU LEARN THAT WAS NEW AT THE 2019 "LOVE NEVER FAILS" REGIONAL CONVENTION ?   
    And so the Lord says,
        “These people say they are mine.
    They honor me with their lips,
        but their hearts are far from me.
    And their worship of me
        is nothing but man-made rules learned by rote.  Isa 29:13
    ("Greek version reads Their worship is a farce, / for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.Compare Mark 7:7")
     
  20. Like
    Witness got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in WHITEWASH   
    Dear Sir, I see no scriptures to support your words, yet you are telling me I need to focus on the Bible itself.     What I do notice is if I speak against a WT lie, you tend to support the lie as truth.  You tend to support the GB and the organization.    In this case, the WT tells the truth about who “Israel” is, since they have successfully captivated and surrounded the camp of “saints” with their lies. Col 2:8; Rev 13:1,5-7,10,11; 16:13,14; 20:9 The only way to draw prey, is with a little truth.  Amos 3:5; Rev 8:10-11
    It is interesting that in this case of Watchtower teachings, the truth about who spiritual “Israel” is, you are calling a lie.   
     
    Jesus’ names and descriptive roles:
    The Logos/Word
    Michael (“Who Is Like God?”)
    Savior
    Master
    Bread of Life
    Faithful and True
    Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace…the light of the world.
     
    The role/names of Satan:
    Deceiver
    Father of the Lie
    the Destroyer
    Murderer
    Dragon, Apollyon, Accuser, Leviathan….the ruler of darkness.  
    I have not watered down Jesus’ role whatsoever. But, to say Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace, is the Destroyer, is blasphemy. 
    Again, you show no scriptures to prove otherwise, while I already have. You appear not to see the distinction between light and darkness, evil and good, life and death.   The two do not mix.
    Don’t become partners with those who do not believe. For what partnership is there between righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship does light have with darkness? 15 What agreement does Christ have with Belial? 2 Cor 6:14,15a
     
     
  21. Upvote
    Witness reacted to JW Insider in WHAT DID YOU LEARN THAT WAS NEW AT THE 2019 "LOVE NEVER FAILS" REGIONAL CONVENTION ?   
    Of course, there was that "God-damned" snake in the grass back in Eden. It was cursed to crawl on the ground and lick the dust with its [forked] tongue.
    Then there were those pigs that allowed themselves to be possessed by demons, and were driven to commit suicide.
    Certain animals might have listened to communication from God to be able to receive a name from Adam. The same could be said for the animals that listened to communication from God to get on Noah's ark. Or for ravens to find Elijah to bring him food. Or, perhaps even a big fish who nearly snacked on Jonah. And there's that special relationship between Jehovah and Leviathan and Behemoth.
    God gives animals "meat in due season" (food at the proper time):
    (Psalm 104:27) . . .All of them wait for you To give them their food in its season. And a donkey evidently saved a man's life by ascertaining an invisible angel.
    On a serious note, I think most people agree that many persons have an unbalanced view of pets. But it's also easy to get unbalanced in the direction of disdaining pets and animals. Remember that Jehovah himself rejoices at his works which obviously includes his many interactions with animals according to the context of Psalm 104. 
    (Psalm 104:28-31) . . .What you give them, they gather. When you open your hand, they are satisfied with good things. 29 When you hide your face, they are disturbed. If you take away their spirit, they die and return to the dust. 30 If you send out your spirit, they are created, And you renew the surface of the ground. 31 The glory of Jehovah will last forever. Jehovah will rejoice in his works.
  22. Upvote
    Witness reacted to JW Insider in WHAT DID YOU LEARN THAT WAS NEW AT THE 2019 "LOVE NEVER FAILS" REGIONAL CONVENTION ?   
    To me, 1 Tim 6:20 seems more related to the so-called knowledge that comes from inside the congregation, because this would be consistent with the prior context of 1 Timothy. The idea of falsely called wisdom from the outside is referred to especially in the first three chapters of 1 Corinthians, which @Outta Here referred to. Not that the idea is wrong, but bringing up 1 Tim 6:20 in the context of something that the JW Organization should be particularly good at seems wrong to me. That's because I believe it refers to something that SHOULD be a pet peeve of every Witness about a particular habit of the Watchtower writers that continues to get us in trouble.
    We very often, historically, have made claims about certain interpretations of the scriptures that are completely unnecessary, and which turn out to be things that we end up dropping when the contradictions to actual events or other scriptures become too untenable to stretch belief any further. I could relist every single teaching which has had to be updated to make this point.
    But each of those interpretations was treated as knowledge when it was taught. Even though they turned out to be false, and required updating. Just because we like to avoid the word false, and call it "refinements" or "increasing light" changes nothing about the falsehood of the previously called knowledge.
    But spiritual food does not have a shelf life. Those false teachings were never spiritual food to begin with. There has NEVER been a reason to turn a specific interpretation into "knowledge."
  23. Upvote
    Witness reacted to James Thomas Rook Jr. in WHAT DID YOU LEARN THAT WAS NEW AT THE 2019 "LOVE NEVER FAILS" REGIONAL CONVENTION ?   
    I had a 5 year or so old Box Turtle ( tortoise, actually) that I rescued from a highway, and as I watched "him", ( and yes, you can tell...) it often occurred to me how ignorant we really are of what they think and feel ... and the colossal arrogance on people's part to assume they think less of their lives than we think of ours.
    As I watched "Mr. Henry II", the thought occurred to me that beneath those plated decks might dwell the mind and heart of a great lover, and a consummate mathematician ... all day quietly working on equations for orbital mechanics, or parallel dimensions.
    The things I have seen with my own eyes belies the arrogance and cluelessness of  Clergy who worship themselves.
    When they pontificate about such things, they declare aloud their incompetence, and lack of credibility.
     
     
  24. Thanks
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in WHAT DID YOU LEARN THAT WAS NEW AT THE 2019 "LOVE NEVER FAILS" REGIONAL CONVENTION ?   
    I will start with this WT Society quote from https://wol.jw.org/hr/wol/d/r19/lp-c/1102003023 : Tell him to stop and listen to the bird singing. Then ask him, "Who created the birds and taught them to sing?" God did this. God created heaven and earth and all living beings!He gives life.
    Here we see how publication speaking about one special ability, among many others, ability to learn. So, by this quote we see how animals have ability to learn, and that, in a direct way, personally from God! :)) Yes, this WT Society book is for children, but as simplified edition it could be for adults too. :))
    Let's go to article named: 
    “His Invisible Qualities Are Clearly Seen”
     Paul said, "[God] invisible attributes, namely his eternal power and deity, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, because they are distinguished by what is created, so that these people have no excuses" ( Romans 1:20 ). If we look closely at these words, we will be convinced that the Creator is like an artist who signed his masterpiece. - source: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20130801/believe-in-god/
    It is also interesting that in same Creative Day, God has made land animals and humans - together. For First Humans God was not given one Special Day and Separate Day for creating this The Crown of His Creation - humans. No, He made them in the same day. Are Humans the Only Bearers of God’s Image? Humans are not made with some special materials, but also from dust as animals. 
    Also, Genesis not telling us about how in Paradise existed predators and prays. But how all living as Equal Creatures, with no Mastering from first Human above any of animal. They all had equal position in Paradise. To live and be happy. Only after the Flood we see how God speaking about huge change - Permission to kill animals for food: Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. Mastering over them in:  The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands. 
    But something is also very interesting:
    And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.
    Lifeblood of animals and of humans are on same Level before God!
    And next thing is interesting:
    “I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you—the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you—every living creature on earth.
    Why would God made covenant with Animals as the same with Human. Why if Animals have no Qualities that God gave, supposedly, only to Human? Why, if Animals have no brain, conscious, heart, ability as Humans?
    Humans are Unique in Degree but Not Kind. The capability differences between humans and other creatures seem finally to amount to differences of degree and not kind. The differences among creatures pertain to complexity. There are good reasons to believe humans share basic attributes with other creatures. - source: http://thomasjayoord.com/index.php/blog/archives/animals-made-in-gods-image
    Obviously, we have a lot to learn about Animals as creatures made by God Himself. :))
  25. Upvote
    Witness reacted to Srecko Sostar in WHAT DID YOU LEARN THAT WAS NEW AT THE 2019 "LOVE NEVER FAILS" REGIONAL CONVENTION ?   
    Speaker missing to tell some things. Animals has not ability to do things as humans, but if God created them, He incorporated some qualities similar to humans. Or same as to humans but on different level. Searching for food, or even growing and collect food, creating family and offspring, care of them, fight for survive, showing affection to same and other species, etc. Cows give more milk after listening classical music :))) Speaker didn't done enough research on subject.
    Don't elevate humans to status of gods :))))   
    Message has same principle, but speaker, i guess, missed to highlight and used The Same Principle and to made Parallel Lesson about same trap in spiritual interaction inside congregations and WT Society. 
     
     
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