Shiwiii

I did. 
 
I have read not all of it but enough of it to formulate my opinion and make a good comment in good conscience.
 
Tom, you have written with a passion and a poise from your true belief and heart. I cannot deny that fact. I commend you for the amount of what you put into words and can honestly say that it truly takes a writer to write as much as you have in this, and the other books you have written. You have given the reader a solid grasp of the topic you represent and that is something I struggle to see here in this forum at times. While I understand that everyone writes for different reasons, some want to provide facts while others want to present missed information and many more reasons. The only thing I can say about your book that is relevant to this topic on this forum, is that it is a  opinion piece. There is nothing wrong with that, it just is what it is. I appreciate the fact that you let me read it, it gives me more understanding of who you are and where your thoughts reside. Thank you Tom. 

You know what is kinda funny Tom? 
Is that your sarcastic comments have underlying truth to it that you don't even know. It's almost like you do know, but can't say it frankly, so you have to resort to the sarcasm. 

I'm just curious about what people think when they hear that more kh's have been sold and folks sent to other kh's that had less people in it. This has come about with the recent announcement in Montreal of the dissolving of 16 cong's and closures of 3 kh's by April of this year. I think it is very interesting, mostly because this is the new trend. Selling of kh's as well as property in Brooklyn.
What gets me thinking is the recent changes from the past few years. At one time the local people owned the kh's, took loans out and paid for everything mostly with local funds and labor. Then we had the provision that the wt would assume the loans and local cong's would just pay wt. This was an open-ended situation with no payoff date. Local cong's would just keep paying what they were prior and all would be good. Now, I am sure that there are plenty of situations that warrant wt's help in paying for the kh's, but all in all it looked like a nice steady income for wt. Now I am seeing the merge of cong's and kh's being sold. Who gets this money? oh well, we all know who......wt. Not the local cong who built it. To me this is interesting and something that I think will wake up a lot of folks as they look into it, but I'd like to hear some thoughts from the other side of the coin. 
Anyone care to answer? 

I should have added, to the one who doesn't recognize it.   You appear to be very hopeful that these "clearly stated instructions" will be followed.  How many such instructions have been changed or completely ignored by elders?  My husband was an elder in a congregation where instructions were generally ignored until a "circuit brother" would be ready to call. They would scramble to "prepare" as a good elder body should.  There was no real concern for the sheep.  Shepherding calls infringed on the personal time of elders.  My husband took the bulk of them and was serious at visiting every person in need that he could.   But, not only did he realize that the instructions outlined in the Shepherd the Flock book were hypocritical, but also were the brothers who were suppose to carry them out.  He eventually dropped the Shepherd the Flock book on the table and walked out on the very night that elders were up until all hours making themselves look good for circuit overseer.   He left the organization on account of its hypocrisy.
A false priesthood of men not anointed who do not carry God's laws written on their heart as an anointed Body has been given, cannot and will not be equipped to shepherd the flock in righteousness.  Mal 2:7; Heb 8:10-11
Therefore, whatever you want others to do for you, do also the same for them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.  Matt 7:12
How long has the organization been up and running?  What avenue has been used to force the changes that you now see concerning the major problem of child abuse and the safety of the victim?  It wasn't the teachings of Christ that caused the revision, but the law enforcement of men.  

Thank you; yet the outcome is still relevant today.
 Hypocrisy is the contrivance of a false appearance of virtue or goodness, while concealing real character or inclinations, especially with respect to religious and moral beliefs; hence, in a general sense, hypocrisy may involve dissimulation, pretense, or a sham. Hypocrisy is the practice of engaging in the same behavior or activity for which one criticizes another. In moral psychology, it is the failure to follow one's own expressed moral rules and principles.
Hypocrisy is never clear.  

It all sounds well and good, except in many "rogue" halls, it has been and will continue, to be done according to the will of the elder body.  It think this has been proven more than once.   If elders fail to follow the new guidelines, will they be disfellowshipped?  Just asking.  Will they suffer at the hands of the Watchtower as the victim did?
A jury in northwestern Montana handed down a $35 million award Wednesday in a lawsuit filed by two women against the local Jehovah’s Witnesses congregation and its worldwide headquarters.
The decision came down after a three-day trial. The Thompson Falls congregation and Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, the church’s institutional center in New York and Pennsylvania, will pay $4 million in compensation and $31 million in punitive damages. The monetary award applies to only one of the women who sued the church in 2016.
The women said Max Reyes, a member of the Thompson Falls congregation, sexually assaulted, molested and raped them over a 13-year period in the 1990s and 2000s, both before he was severed from the congregation and after leadership reinstated him 14 months later.
Watchtower, the church’s worldwide center, is the headquarters for the religious leadership and the church's institutional operations, such as policy making and financing. Each congregation is legally connected to Watchtower as one entity.
Earlier in the case, Judge James Manley ruled that Reyes’ criminal acts were foreseeable to the church leadership when they allowed him to return and that the congregation’s elders were not exempt from Montana’s mandatory reporting law when they learned of the allegations against him and didn’t turn him over to law enforcement.  From the "Missoulian"
 
Jesus simply said, "love your neighbor as yourself".  Is this so hard to understand?   Even those few words are incomprehensible to the leaders in the organization.  They are not obedient to Jesus' teachings, nor the law, but only to their selfish desires to do things their way. 

( WELL you are the one now using my name so i will respond to 'others' in case it is not clear. )
And if an Elder should want to hide or destroy evidence in the form of written notes he will. And i think that a video was put up on this forum to show a brother in some position of authority telling elders to destroy evidence. That brother used the excuse that 'satan was coming after the organisation'.  Of course what he really meant was 'this is going to cost the Org lots of money and give it a really bad name' ... '
Also I believe that in the Netherlands, Police invaded the HQ and some Kingdom Halls and a couple of homes, searching for such evidence / documents, as proof of Child Abuse happenings. 
At the headquarters of Jehova's Witnesses in Emmen, an invasion took place on 19 November due to a large-scale investigation into sexual abuse.
Two church buildings, also known as kingdom halls, have also been investigated. One of them is in Dordrecht, the location of the other is still unknown. Four houses were also examined. The police were looking for documents from internal lawsuits, that reportsRTL News .    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My son watched the film 1984, and he said those in charge would say there was 'a variation' in different things, but it actually meant there was a lesser amount being offered for the same cost... When our rent goes up the Council use that same word 'variation' instead of rise in cost. Do you understand where I'm coming from ?  The GB of JW Org is just doing the same thing as the world does, playing with words to serve their own purpose..
There are 'whistleblowers' in the world to show us how bad the ruling classes treat the lower classes. 
I am very pleased that there are 'Whistleblowers' within the JW Org too, to prove how bad the GB and the Org really is.
TTH pretends all is well and Anna backs up his every comment like a parrot. But in truth we know, nothing has changed. It's just playing with words. Something which TTH loves to do. 
So i will repeat. IF AN ELDER COMMITS CHILD ABUSE AND THERE ARE NOT TWO WITNESSES TO PROVE HE DID IT, THEN HE WILL GET AWAY WITH IT BECAUSE HIS FELLOW ELDERS WILL RALLY ROUND HIM TO 'PROTEST' HIM.  THERE WILL NOT BE A PROPER ENQUIRY / INQUIRY TO THE SITUATION AS THE ELDERS WILL SAY THERE IS NO INTERNAL CASE TO ANSWER. THEREFORE THE ABUSER ELDER WILL STILL KEEP HIS 'STATION' AND HIS STATUS. THE VICTIM WILL BE SEEN AS A LIAR AND / OR SLANDERER AND WILL BE SHUNNED BY OTHERS IN THE CONGREGATION. IF THE VICTIM CONTINUES TO COMPLAIN THEY WILL BE DISFELLOWSHIPPED. 
Simple enough for you all to understand I hope. I thought some of you needed capitals as you seem to find it difficult to read and understand things. 
 

Well this is very interesting topic and as a father  in my case, i can say, i rather wait for my son to be in his late adulthood before getting baptized then having my child going through adulthood with the chance of disfellowshiped and all that shaming and shunning  that comes with all the brothers and sisters in the congregation.

I expect nothing less from those who defend the practices of wt/gb about CSA. 
on a good note though, truth has a way of planting a seed and It WILL grow, it will grow on their conscience in due time.  

Why do you dodge simple truth in order to divert the topic to something irrelevant for the sake of sarcasm when you could just answer straightforward?  
 

regardless what I think about jws in general, there is a big difference from being allowed and requiring. 
Here, for your entertainment Tom: 
 
Johnny boy is allowed to recycle his plastic, glass bottles and aluminum cans in the State of Arizona
 
in California (in certain cities) Johnny boy is required to recycle his plastic, glass bottles and aluminum cans.
 
Is this the same thing? Is the practice of  recycling "fixed" in Arizona?  

I expect nothing less from those who defend the practices of wt/gb about CSA. 
on a good note though, truth has a way of planting a seed and It WILL grow, it will grow on their conscience in due time.  

regardless what I think about jws in general, there is a big difference from being allowed and requiring. 
Here, for your entertainment Tom: 
 
Johnny boy is allowed to recycle his plastic, glass bottles and aluminum cans in the State of Arizona
 
in California (in certain cities) Johnny boy is required to recycle his plastic, glass bottles and aluminum cans.
 
Is this the same thing? Is the practice of  recycling "fixed" in Arizona?  

Hang on just a second Tom. Do you really think this is fixed?  I mean, now it ALLOWS reporting without repercussion and not instructed to report. That is not quite the same thing. Don't get me wrong, I am happy to see that they are now allowing it to be reported, but it isn't the fix. 

And it took how many years for their "Guardians of the Doctrine" to realize things weren’t right with this issue?

Did you even read what I wrote? 
 
In your scenario, no one knows.....no one.......nada....zilch....none. So it cannot be reported.  And how in the world do you even consider this to be a supporting factor in the discussion? Its like saying if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? 
 
In mine, maybe I failed to mention the part of someone going to the elders, but someone DOES know and still refuses to report it.  

I agree with you, there is NOTHING Christ-like about allowing CSA or any abuse to continue because the "laws" of men don't require reporting it to the police. 
Can you even imagine, when the time comes, and Jesus is standing there asking each and every one of us about our life choices. When He asks, are some people really going to say "well, there wasn't a law stating we had to report CSA/abuse to proper authorities" 
Romans 14:10"...For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
    and every tongue shall confess[b] to God.”
12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God."
 

So when the ms or elder molests a child and tells the child that he/she will kill them or their family or the family dog , scares them into submission, its ok because they didn't want to tell. Is this what you are saying? Or how about the wife that is getting the crap beat out of her and fears for her life, let it continue because she is scared to report for fear of more abuse? Riiiiight. Sounds like a good plan Anna. 
Then leave crimes to the police instead of covering them up! Report the crime and THEN deal with the sin. 

The new rules now ALLOW Elders, are now there's the rub, ALLOW. It only allows them to, but if it is an accusation against a fellow Elder they might not want to report it to the outside authorities. So nothing gained. 
And if there are not Two Witnesses then elders may feel there is 'no case to answer' as there is no real proof. Remember that they have been indoctrinated for years. New rules might not make any difference to their attitudes. 

Um, Scripture, SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES ARE IN PLACE BECAUSE GOD WANTS THEM THERE. THEY ARE DOING GOD'S WORK IN THIS OLD SYSTEM OF THINGS. THEY ARE THERE TO PUNISH THOSE WHO BREAK THE LAW. 
Sorry it's all capitals but you seem a bit blind. 

Quote "The unsettling aspect of the CSA cases is that many chose not to do it because they thought they might be bringing reproach on God’s name." 
The unsettling TRUTH is that it seems that MANY were TOLD it WOULD bring reproach on God's name. Now who would tell them such things ? Elders maybe ? 
Quote "It is not easy to get between a mama bear and her cub. You make it sound like a walk in the park. "
Now i'm sure most of you do not believe a word I say, or even a word any victim says BUT It seems to have been proved in court cases that Elders take children on the ministry, and, Elders do private Bible study with children. 
The JW Org gives the appearance of being a 'Safe Place To Be'. A place where people can be trusted because they are 'serving God'. 
So, people trust others to spend time with their children. So yes it can be a 'walk in the park' for a prdophile. 
Quote "The two witness rule becomes irrelevant.. " How blind you pretend to be.
In places where reporting Child Sex Abuse is THE LAW, it would rely on that Two Witness rule.  Because the Elders would say 'no  case to answer' without Two Witnesses, so the Elders would say 'nothing to report'. 
And of course you end your comment with sarcasm, trying to belittle us that complain and to mock the situation.
Unfortunately i'm seeing that as typical JW stance now. 
But that W/t is proof that the GB are worried, not about people of course, about the money it's costing in fines. 

Why the heck is WT trying to assert the clergy-penitent privilege to allow elders to NOT report to authorities?
Exhibit A: (State of Delaware v. Laurel Delaware Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, Joel Mulchansingh and William Perkins)[https://law.justia.com/cases/delaware/superior-court/2016/n14c-05-122-mmj-0.html).
Relevant quote from the case, the JW crew being the defendants:
Does that sound like the organization is 'endeavoring' to report abuse? They are 'endeavoring' to legally NOT report abuse. That's how the hell they're trying to comply with secular laws.
I'm sorry for the language, but these *%&$*()*$ are writing articles to the general JW with the obvious intent of making it look like they're TRYING to report abuse and they're not. They're simply not.

But it is their job right? They are trained professionals,  right? Unlike any person called a wt elder. 

Sadly it has taken the secular courts in many countries to force this to happen. Not by the desire to protect,  not the pleas of the victims, and not because of what is right, it is solely because of the loss of money. 
 

There is,  you know it as well as everyone on this forum.  Your cognitive dissonance is showing. 
yes, and I stand by my comments. Finally there is a change, albeit a slight one, but still some change. Sadly this is knee jerk reaction to the piling up lawsuits. 
No, technically no one needs another witness to bring anything up to the proper authorities, but this is just a play on words with you. You know right well what we are talking about, but choose to hide behind words and technical definitions to convey your support for the org as well as your possible disgust of CSA and to save face with normal people. You have been trained to play words to create loopholes, just as John was talking about. 
Anna, I agree we cannot continue this conversation based on technical definitions of words and the ambiguity of your position based upon whom you are talking to or about, instead of the actual topic and PROBLEM at hand.