Anna

I don't think the order ever went through because the WT appealed the decision. If I do enough digging around I may be able to find out what the final result was. OK. Dug around a bit and found out the appeal was heard 11th October 2017 and the appellate court has 90 days to issue its formal ruling. Watch this space

No, of course not, the Bible in itself does not do much unless the person reading it has the right motive. Atheists can read the Bible and still believe there is no God. It has everything to do with the attitude of the person. We know the Bible can say whatever a person wants it to say, especially when taken out of context. So someone who wants to believe the Trinity will find support for it in the Bible as seen through their eyes. But we want the truth don't we? So we have to look at the Bible objectively and with that goal in mind, that we want the truth, no matter what it is. We need to have an open mind and hear someone out who is perhaps more knowledgeable about the Bible than we are, and then we can decide whether we will accept that persons reasoning and if it makes objective sense. Interesting thought, except Witnesses are constantly reminded to read their Bible. Plus, the simple plain people, whose mind is uncluttered by the world's philosophies and religious dogma usually grasp the plain truth of the Bible much better than those whose thoughts have been warped by those things. The truth from the Bible is very simple. What Jehovah's Witnesses teach at their core is based on that.

But only if they have not committed the unforgivable sin. And we don't know who has a who hasn't. That's why I mentioned that if someone returns, that in itself an indication that they have NOT committed the unforgivable sin.

Yes, that's what I was trying to say

I edited it just at the same time you wrote this

For heavens sake will somebody tell this kid that the Bible does not teach that God is a literal person sitting on literal clouds! That this is symbolically speaking. He needs a Bible study....any volunteers?

I thought that scripture was self explanatory. Enlightened means spiritually aware, in this case becoming aware of the truth about God and his son and his purpose for the future, and doing something about it in gratitude for what he has done for us by providing the ransom. So the apostle Paul's point was that by turning away from the truth about God and his son these people reject the the very purpose of why Jesus died, and start producing" thorns" and "thistles" (verse 8).

Yes, possibly.... Do you remember THIS video? The brother there abandoned Jehovah, and became prejudiced against Jehovah's Witnesses. That is putting it nicely as no doubt at the time it was more like enmity and active aversion judging from the context. Let me know what you think if you watch it. I once spoke to someone who would have been put under the apostate umbrella from what we understand it to mean. He said that if he ever got into the paradise he would shoot himself. Was that just wild talk? Or was his aversion so great that he would rather be dead? This is the point at where only Jehovah knows the answer. As for us, we can only go by what we see and hear, and we can be wrong. So only Jehovah knows how "willful" someones discarding of the faith is. Some brothers have become so bitter because of something that happened to them to the point of speaking against the Witnesses and Jehovah, pretty much like the brother in the video. But that does not automatically mean they have committed the unforgivable sin.

Heb 6: 4-6 "For as regards those who were once enlightened and who have tasted the heavenly free gift and who have become partakers of holy spirit and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but have fallen away, it is impossible to revive them again to repentance, because they nail the Son of God to the stake again for themselves and expose him to public shame" This could apply to apostates, but not necessarily. It can apply to anyone, it depends if they are willing to be revived or not. In practice this means that the person, whether an apostate or not, who has a change of heart has not committed the unforgivable sin because they can be revived. But if it is impossible to revive them, then that indicates they have sinned against the holy spirit and gone beyond the point of repentance.

Actually, anyone can receive holy spirit Interestingly, it would seem even apostates can return to Jehovah. Possible, but definitely not a rule. People get disfellowshipped mostly for not being repentant "enough" and these people are welcomed back into the congregation and by Jehovah when they change their attitude. The Bible says so. Some people have stayed out for many many years, but have come back. I doubt they have sinned against the holy spirit. The fact that they come back is proof of that.

I don't think any of us can claim that, and it is rather presumptuous of you if you think you can!

Unfortunately this can be true and is kind of a bummer, especially for the ones who think they have sinned against the spirit but have not because it can dishearten them so much that they want to give up. This is what Satan wants. He doesn't have to worry about those who think they are ok but are not. Thankfully it rarely happens because if they haven't sinned against the spirit then they are still able to receive it and this will help them to overcome any feelings of hopelessness and eventually they will see that they still have Jehovah's favour. Those who really have committed the unforgivable sin no longer can receive God's spirit and usually do not desire to have anything to do with God, nor to live forever. Often they become atheists.

I agree. If the overlapping generation ever becomes a part of the questions for baptism, then I might begin to worry. But as it stands today, it is merely an opinion much as the 1975 thing was. I do not see an explicit scripture either proving or disproving it, so I think one is at liberty to decide whether it makes sense to them or not. Is it even a doctrine? P.S. That letter to the BOE clearly applies to someone who takes up the beliefs of another religion, as I explained in a few posts further up.

One thing is vocally defending the true nature of God, where Christendom has created a mystery pretzel which alienates people from having a relationship with him, and instead worship and pray to his son, and another is criticizing something which has been interpreted in all honesty and as an encouragement to those who are awaiting God's promises for the earth.

Hey, leave my dad out of this! He's doing very well actually, he's a thin elder.

We might have some ideas, but only Jehovah truly knows because he sees the heart. I have never heard anyone say about someone else that "he has sinned against the holy spirit". That is something that only Jehovah judges. As I mentioned earlier " We humans can only judge what we see or hear about. Jehovah judges the heart"

Are you asking what does sinning against the holy spirit look like?

@Srecko Sostar The bread that is thrown in the trash illustrates the person that is discarded by Jehovah because he has sinned against the holy spirit. There is no forgiveness of that type of sin, ever. How would you have illustrated it in comparison with the other types of sin?

By that I meant that the person who put this video together, and commented halfway through it, obviously has an agenda. Witnesses who did not accept 1975 at the time most likely did not have an agenda. They just went by what the scripture says, just as was shown in the 2017 convention video.... When I say I do not believe in the overlapping generation I have no agenda or desire to make others accept my view. And that excerpt from a letter to the BOE (I think) is rather unfortunately understood since no one can control your thoughts, so that particular excerpt is talking about someone who has abandoned the teachings and taken up another belief. The letter mentions "extended" effort to readjust thinking, which indicates this is more than just mere speculative thoughts which would normally have no real bearing on a Christian's life, I mean someone not believing the overlapping generation is hardly a cause for concern especially if it does not have an impact on anything else that the person does. But the person who is being counseled in that letter evidently has a major problem with most of the beliefs which impacts more than just his thoughts. So this is talking about a case where a JW joins or adopts the beliefs of another religion. He may not be promoting it, but he is clearly "standing away" and "abandoning" his former belief.

I trust my sixth sense which has proved to be 99.9% correct. Actually, I just informed myself about it from your review of it, and since you said it was click bait, all became clear. So thanks. But honestly, it looked like click bait and reminded me of the pictures in British tabloid news papers, the shock horror popping out eyes and all. Those kinds of papers rely on sensationalistic shock horror fake stories to sell the paper. This clip is evidently just the video version of it. This is not to say that JW husbands have never cheated on their wives and vice versa. P.S. Plus I'm totally busy now with trying to decipher astronomy and chronology, so got no time for this crap ()

This video looks totally stupid......didn't bother watching it....

I think he/she means that they didn't check the source of the video, but did listen to it. It is quite believable that the recordings are genuine, however the narrative interjection is obviously from an apostate.

I watched the video, and to be honest, if you were one of those people attending the convention where the second speaker was giving the address, you would be hard pressed not to get excited, and NOT look to the date 1975.. Of course, the friends who attended that convention were just some, out of the rest of the brotherhood and not all who attended the convention would have been convinced, just like not all are convinced about some ideas today (the overlapping generation ). I am wondering if after this series of talks, the Slave realised they had taken it a bit too far. There must have been discussions by brothers who pointed out the scrioture which makes it clear the Bible gives no date (like the brother in the video of the last convention) so then when the idea reached the UK it was perhaps already more watered down.. My step dad sold his skis because he thought he wouldn't use them again, he was living in central Europe, but my mother living in the uk at the time doesn't even recall anything special going on, and neither do I. But I was only very young...

We humans can only judge what we see or hear about. Jehovah judges the heart.

This would not be the first time in Canada. In 2012 Vicky Boer filed a lawsuit against the elders of her cong.and the WT which was a fiasco and ended badly for her. She ended up owing her lawyers, and is probably still paying them now.