Anna

The "need for money" makes common sense. It made common sense to Paul, and it makes common sense to people who have...well ummm....common sense, and want to eat and pay the bills. I have no idea how you think things are paid for. Long gone are the days where I gave you flour in exchange for a chicken....

What about the churches of Christendom? Were they also leased? Like this one:

Law enforcement will not take any action either if they cannot prove someone guilty. And if they do convict someone of child sexual molestation, then guess what, after serving a prison sentence, sometimes of only 6 moths to a year, they are released back into the community, and unless you have a sex offender tracker, you will have no idea there is one living in your neighborhood.

I thought you might understand what I was saying in this way. But that is not what I meant. As we say, "just one molested child is one too many". However, my point was that there will be a certain amount of crimes committed even among JWs, it is the law of averages. But to call it an "incredibly huge" amount gives the impression there is at least one pedophile in every congregation. When Raymond Franz (former G.B) was asked by a certain campaigner against the Witnesses about child sexual molestation in the organization, it was Raymond's opportunity to really expose this "huge problem". However, and much to the campaigners disappointment, Raymond told him that he did not think that child sexual abuse was a major problem in the organization and that it had been sensationalized. I believe had it been a huge problem, Raymond would have most definitely addressed it in one of his anti Witness books. I am afraid it is a drop if we spent $80 million dollars on stamps to send letters to Russia. Ask @James Thomas Rook Jr.. The most that was ever asked in a lawsuit was $21 million and that ended up being settled out of court for an undisclosed amount which would have been very much less than that (probably a few thousand). But if we are going to use your argument, then why are former members imposing this on their brothers and sisters? They don't seem to care much that "most of JW members are not rich with money, have modest income" do they? Are you serious? The organization is about preaching the good news. That is its mission. Problems arising from man's imperfection and the world in general are side issues that have to be dealt with by those who are involved, and not by every single member of the organization. I mean would you expect every problem to be reported to the whole worldwide brotherhood? If not, then which problem would you chose to report and which would not be reported? The goal is to stop child sexual abuse and other problems. Not to report on the statistics of them. Have you been to this years convention? There was a whole talk based on protecting our children. All those who attended would have heard it, and all those who know that the organization never arbitrarily just puts information out there, will have understood that this talk was given because there is still a problem.

Incredibly huge? That is a relative concept. A mouse is incredibly huge to an ant, but tiny to an elephant. By huge, do you mean there is at least one child molester in every congregation, or maybe more? Or is it "huge" because of the way it has been blown out of proportion by critics and opposers? A drop in the ocean. The majority of cases are settled out of court, and don't forget, the WT uses its own lawyers, so no lawyer fees there. It was never hidden. The publications made it clear that child molestation can happen, and gave helpful advice to parents on how to lessen the opportunity of it happening. I still remember that particular Awake from the 80's. I agree, that is why principles are great, because you can adapt them to any situation in any period of time.

Why do we understand the "prince of Persia" in Daniel 10:13 to be a wicked angel/Demon when it seems that the messenger is talking about a succession of actual kings, and if the demon is called a "prince" of Persia, who then is the "prince" of Greece in 10:20?

A thought has just occurred to me. Was Br. Russell ever baptised?

I included Br. Russell and a random date of when he founded the WT society, by that time I assume he was anointed. We can just as easily leave him out as it does not change the 1914 generation. Just drop your formula in the suggestion box at Bethel

Yes. Thank you for putting it succinctly into a nutshell. But how can that be? Indeed. And that's what I'm relying on.

It has everything to do with it since we are talking about the generation that was anointed before 1914. (Jesus talking about the signs of the last days which began in 1914 and THAT generation not passing away). Therefor the person would have to have been baptised before 1914. So it's that generation. . Which is where we encounter the problem because THAT generation is all but dead now and it does not apply to M. Sanderson, since he was baptised and became one of the anointed well after 1914 BUT, and this is the whole point of the overlapping generation, his life OVERLAPPED (between approx 1977 when Sanderson was baptised and 1992 when Franz died) with the life of one of the anointed who was baptised before 1914 (Franz).

Thank you. That answers my question about where does the money come from to cover litigation costs.

Those religious principles in the WT and other publications. They part of the inserts of the 2017 policies. It is normal for policies to be adjusted to adapt to new circumstances, but the principles behind them do no change and have been long standing and widely know in WT articles and other publications available to everyone.

I thought I would do a little diagram illustrating the concept of the "overlapping generation". I ask myself, in all honesty, can those two groups (circles) really be called ONE generation? If you think the answer is yes, can you explain it using this diagram. P.S. Sorry, dropped the L in Russell, and not sure of Mark Sanderson's baptism date.

Unless you're like lucky, lucky me and have a friend there who will give you a private tour . No but seriously, it's who you know.....as always...

Although completely off topic on this thread I just thought I would mention this: This has already changed. Victims are no longer required to “testify” in front of JC elders, and sisters may be able to assist the elders in establishing facts etc. (however sisters will never be able to take part in a JC committee because of its “official” nature). View the 2017 Child Safeguarding policy HERE This particular one is for the UK and Ireland, it will be the same all over the world.

True, and we may also subconsciously perhaps view it as some kind of central temple, like the one the Israelites had in Jerusalem, and we may even stretch it further by reasoning that Jehovah’s spirit resides there more than it resides in any other building we use for worship. Brings to mind the verse in Acts 17:24, where Paul is addressing the people of Athens, with the many temples dedicated to various Gods. So I am hoping that the spirit behind those words will be understood to be more of it being a small taste of what paradise will be like as regards living together and the cooperation etc. and that everything done there "is for Jehovah” “ ...."and because what we do (at Bethel) helps people draw close to Jehovah” as was brought out in last week’s WT study. P.S. Notice the brother in the front row, (second one of the brothers from the right) is Nicolas King, the guy who sings Jazz professionally.

Hahaha, too true!

But Jesus did have a specific period of time in mind when he spoke of the first fulfillment didn't he? Should we not expect a specific period of time for the second fulfillment also?

It makes one wonder...and we can only hope. But I still think we will all be taken by surprise, because things rarely have a habit of turning out like we thought they would!

Matthew 24:34 " All the generations, then, from Abraham until David were 14 generations; from David until the deportation to Babylon, 14 generations; from the deportation to Babylon until the Christ, 14 generations". This is counting each person's lifetime as a generation Insight to the Scriptures under Generation, p917: A generation commonly refers to all persons who were born about the same time. (Ex 1:6; Mt 11:16) Associated with this is the meaning “contemporaries.” At Genesis 6:9 it is stated concerning Noah: “He proved himself faultless among his contemporaries [literally, generations... Length. When the term “generation” is used with reference to the people living at a particular time, the exact length of that time cannot be stated, except that the time would fall within reasonable limits. These limits would be determined by the life span of the people of that time or of that population. The life span of the ten generations from Adam to Noah averaged more than 850 years each. (Ge 5:5-31; 9:29) But after Noah, man’s life span dropped off sharply. Abraham, for example, lived only 175 years. (Ge 25:7) Today, much as it was in the time of Moses, people living under favorable conditions may reach 70 or 80 years of age..... “This Generation” of Christ’s Prophecies. When Bible prophecy speaks of “this generation,” it is necessary to consider the context to determine what generation is meant. Jesus Christ, when denouncing the Jewish religious leaders, concluded by saying: “Truly I say to you, All these things will come upon this generation.” History recounts that about 37 years later (in 70 C.E.) that contemporary generation personally experienced the destruction of Jerusalem, as foretold.—Mt 23:36. Later that same day, Jesus again used practically the same words, saying: “Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.” (Mt 24:34) In this instance, Jesus was answering a question regarding the desolation of Jerusalem and its temple as well as regarding the sign of his presence and of the conclusion of the system of things. Before his reference to “this generation,” however, he had focused his remarks specifically on his “coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory” and the nearness of the Kingdom of God. Immediately afterward, he continued with references to his “presence.” (Mt 24:30, 37, 39; Lu 21:27, 31) Jesus was using the word “generation” with reference to humans whose lives would in some way be associated with the foretold events.—Mt 24. The people of this 20th-century generation living since 1914 have experienced these many terrifying events concurrently and in concentrated measure—international wars, great earthquakes, terrible pestilences, widespread famine, persecution of Christians, and other conditions that Jesus outlined" (in Matthew mark and Luke). Dictionary definition of Generation: 1. the entire body of individuals born and living at about the same time: the postwar generation. 2. the term of years, roughly 30 among human beings, accepted as the average period between the birth of parents and the birth of their offspring. 3. a group of individuals, most of whom are the same approximate age, having similar ideas, problems, attitudes, etc. Compare Beat Generation, Lost Generation. Definition of contemporaries: adjective 1. existing, occurring, or living at the same time; belonging to the same time: Newton's discovery of the calculus was contemporary with that of Leibniz. 2. of about the same age or date: a Georgian table with a contemporary wig stand. 3. of the present time; modern: a lecture on the contemporary novel. noun, plural contemporaries. 4. a person belonging to the same time or period with another or others. 5. a person of the same age as another. However, I do understand the idea that the Slave is trying to present when it says "Contemporaries" rather than generation. But even then, in general, contemporaries also live and die roughly at the same time. As regards the contemporaries of a certain time period, for example the contemporaries of WW, that would surely not include someone who was born in 1960 would it? As for the contemporaries of a certain sign, in this case the "time of the end", well the contemporaries of that time could be as long as the "time of the end" lasted! In view of the different time concepts of humans as opposed to Jehovah, the time of the end could be a 1000 years long! And all those people that lived and died (approx.12 generations), could be counted as generations living in the "time of the end" if we are going to use that formula... So....I hate to say it, but since I agree with the explanation of the Insight Book, and the dictionary definitions, I have no choice in this stream of time but to question the accuracy of 1914, rather than the logical understanding of Generation...and Contemporaries. So that's my alternative suggestion @Gone FishingBut of course I could be wrong.

I do see a certain resemblance

Hahaha, yes, you could call it disaster relief. But I'm being serious. Anyone?

In view of the midweek Bible study from the God's Kingdom rules book, and the chart "where do our donations go" I was wondering what do legal fees, such as lawsuits, fall under? Does anyone know. I was going to ask an elder friend after the meeting, but ran out of time... WHERE DO OUR DONATIONS GO? ALL DONATIONS ARE USED EXCLUSIVELY TO SUPPORT KINGDOM INTERESTS PUBLISHING Publishing and distributing literature, printed and electronic LOCAL CONGREGATION Operating expenses, upkeep of the Kingdom Hall, and congregation resolutions * KINGDOM HALL CONSTRUCTION Between 1999 and 2013, over 24,500 Kingdom Halls were built in lands with limited resources DISASTER RELIEF (See the chart, “When Disaster Strikes!” in Chapter 20.)  SPECIAL FULL-TIME SERVANTS Includes basic living expenses such as housing, food, and health care Traveling Overseers Special Pioneers Missionaries International and Kingdom Hall Construction Personnel Bethelites BRANCHES AND TRANSLATION OFFICES CONVENTIONS THEOCRATIC SCHOOLS

Very good, the answer is not one but three! . I swear, it wasn't a trap, just plain ol logic

How many generations?