TrueTomHarley

2 minutes ago, Anna said:

To be fair though, the Proclaimers book and probably other newer publications do mention this unusual belief that Russell had.

In both the cases you mention, the GB seeks to mitigate, not propagate, fat-headed notions that the friends may have. 

4 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

If you think that CO's and Do's don't get paid (green handshakes) then you obviously haven't been told the whole story.

Oh. So now generosity is wrong, too? 

Would you be content with that relationship with your employer? - hope that you may get a 'green handshake?'

It's a good idea.

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Through private messaging on this forum someone just asked me why I think JWs have so much turnover.

Anything with significant upside is likely to have a downside.

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

And the idea that Jehovah's throne was in Alcyone, the brightest star of Pleiades, was still being promoted and taught from the 1880's into the 1930's, and not dropped officially until well into Knorr's presidency in November 1953.

Some of these things are like State's laws still on the books to regulate some arcane practice that has long been discontinued, like "no ice cream cones on Sundays" it is not necessary to repeal each one. Not reiterating it is enough.

That said, i was somewhat bummed when they doubled down on toasting after I had hoped it would go the way of all the earth. At a non-Witness wedding reception, our table of Witnesses was caught flat-footed when a crew came around to record everyone toasting to the bride. Had I had my wits about me, I would have rose and said: "We don't toast but we want to to wish the bride the greatest joy in life & we thank her for the honor of inviting us & etc etc." That's all they wanted. No need to explain toasting. Instead, I just sat there and looked a bit dumb.

4 minutes ago, Anna said:

I think we should let @TrueTomHarley have a go at that one, since he did such a good job with pinpointing the day of the End in Tomsheepandgoats.

On what? Wait - no matter. My system is that good. The probability is 72.4962% give or take.

On 9/19/2017 at 5:23 PM, Shiwiii said:

It's thoughts like these that make me question the devotion to each and every teaching that comes from the wt's mouth as if it WERE from God. Obey or else!

You shouldn't keep carrying on like this because it is just silly. Unless you are bellicose or in-your-face about it, it is perfectly possible to hold views outside of the mainstream on the lesser points you harp on. Many do, as you have seen. By now you have gone through several threads participated in by mature ones, who are obviously not in cahoots with one another, who all make clear that your beef is so only in your own mind.

Things you say about Jehovah's Witnesses are either wrong, exaggerated, misinterpreted, or attributable to occasional human error. 

5 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

And exactly how much money does it cost to speak to someone? None. There is a reason why "religion is a snare and a racket", there is a reason why we are told not to worship riches, etc.

If your only goal is to get people to say "Accept the Lord and be Saved" to their immediate neighbors, not too much. In that case, go to the churches who emphasize money much more than us and ask for it back, since some of them have achieved only that small goal, despite (or because of) a paid clergy.

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The fact is I do know how to fly an airplane ... depends on the circumstances of whether or not the Pilot can fly the airplane, when I look out the window, and see individual sheep grazing and looking up at me.

Well - just don't go bombing any spectators like they did at the Russian Air Show the other day.

1 hour ago, Gone Fishing said:

Yeah this one is everyewhere. I have a return visit with a proponent of this idea. On September 24th.

I've worked this idea for a while and know how to spot the day of the end:

http://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2011/05/how-to-predict-the-end-of-the-world.html

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Rutherford, for example, taught that the Great Pyramid was Jehovah's witness in stone, just as Russell had

Ah. Here it is:

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/09/20/september-23-end-of-world-theory/

Saturday. Be ready. Tip off Shiwiii as well. Wouldn't want him to miss the cut.

8 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

What do they have to show for the consolidation of kh's, in particular the ones paid for by the cong and dissolved by the wt? did the wt give the cong their money back? nope. Why not? I mean they paid for it themselves and not from a wt loan. What they did get was a big "thank you, now move along to the kh we tell you to go to now.

Not only do I agree with you emphatically, but I think all congregation members should have black leather jackets with the name of their congregation emblazoned on the back. Come now.

If your focus is to be a 'Little House on the Prairie' church, your viewpoint is fine. But if you are serious about carrying out Christ's commission to preach 'this good news of the kingdom throughout the inhabited earth,' you have no problem with effective organization. In fact, you thank God for it, since it enables the most' bang for the buck' globally.

Primarily, it is not about us. Most gripers here think that it is. It is about the sanctification of God's name and the realization of his purposes.

30 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

Your opinion that the wt is so discreet, but it is my opinion that they do ask for money.

Yes they do. Once a year. You posted the long article. And even that is not asking for money. It is simply telling those inclined to donate the most effective ways of doing it.

Nobody emphasizes money less than Jehovah's Witnesses. Moreover, they clearly have something to show for what is donated. 

47 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

Rutherford, for example, taught that the Great Pyramid was Jehovah's witness in stone, just as Russell had.

Off topic, but there is some Christian preacher who is right now invoking the pyramids to explain how earth is soon to be destroyed by a mysterious incoming planet. 

A sign, one of two witnesses of Revelation, is that of the eclipse that just  bisected the country. (gasp!)

16 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

Your experience is not the experience of the majority I have encountered, nor anyone I know.  As far as you not wanting to ask them why, well that's up to you. The broad brush that the wt likes to paint against all who do not align with them, has infiltrated the minds of each jw to assume as the wt did. You can disagree, its ok. 

Against my better judgement, I'll grant your sincerity here. 

The methods may differ but the fact that they 'shake em down' in religion for dough one way or the other is not. Nobody is as discreet as Jehovah's Witnesses, who have never taken collections and who rely on contribution boxes, which can be ignored by anyone who wishes to.

On 9/18/2017 at 9:05 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The Governing Body's job is just as important as an Airline Pilot's Job.

How many mistakes is allowable for the pilot when you are sitting in the back of the airplane at 37,000 feet above the ground?

Quite a few when nobody else in the plane knows how to fly, and there is only one guy back there with a huge mouth who insists he knows more than anyone in the whole wide world

I have in my will to omit my name and simply put the jw.org blue sign on my gravestone.

Seriously, I agree with Fishing. They didn't have to tell me not to wear logoed tee shirts on work assignments. I long ago refrained from making myself a billboard for anything. jw.org is no different. 

I only wear the badge cards because I'm asked to. As a means of advertising the convention, it's okay, even though I resisted at first. But to the extent some think you are 'showing off,' I don't like it. 

When I worked the huge apartment complex by myself in the evening with only an iPad, some thought I was the building inspector. I didn't tell them differently. I like discretion, not being known as a Witness until I choose to make it known.

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Shiwiii attached a document addressing “How to Donate to the Worldwide Work”

It is a 'document' attached once a year in the Watchtower magazine. That hardly seems excessive. Certainly not 'money-hungry.'

Online changes everything. It is probably always possible to link to it. But still it is featured but once a year.

3 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Read without rockets stuck in your ears

Moreover, it remains clear that your view of the Bible is that of a cross between the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights, with special emphasis on the latter. 

57 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Your reading comprehension skills are at their usual nonexistent level,

It's not really my reading skills that need work, but my reading-your-mind skills. Even these would be aided if you spoke without a bazooka.

19 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

22 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

There was the statement you made that the sole purpose of the law was to serve for our happiness.

TTH:

I suspect that you, as usual, have misunderstood what I said.  Since I don't remember saying that ... the burden of proof is on you to quote what I actually did say.  So far ...your accusation has no basis of reference.

It's nice not to remember what you have said. Not everyone has that luxury. From the thread Friends With Benefits:

TTH: "Many times you have challenged readers to point to even one thing you have said that is not true. I will take you up on your challenge now.

"You just said an untruth, and it is a big one. It is fundamental to everything else you say:

  On 8/7/2017 at 7:15 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The alternate explanation would have to be reasonable, show common sense, and the end result be merciful, and just ... and NOT HURT ANYONE ... which is the whole point ofALL Theocratic Law.

"It's not about us. Not primarily. Primarily, it is about the sanctification of God's name and the vindication of his purpose. 'Not hurting anyone,'  though a good provision, is not as good as keeping God's name on high and his purpose undeterred.

"Furthermore, though you have been very critical of the Governing Body, this understanding predates the Governing Body. It first emerged in Rutherford's day."

In response to my comment, you squealed that it was irrelevant because you had not just then issued a challenge to point out anything untrue you might have said. It is relevant now, as you have just done so.

On 9/18/2017 at 8:20 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

They may have to spend SOME of the money the Brotherhood gave them for meds to stop the uncontrollable laughter.

And even more on blood pressure meds to help them when they noticed traffic to jw.org leapt and did not recede both after the trial and after the appeal - as people went to see if the website is truly extremist, and, of course, saw that it is not.

If it is all about us, then your spin has real merit. If it about making known Jehovah's name and purposes, then mine does. 

On 9/18/2017 at 5:56 PM, Shiwiii said:

I have NEVER, EVER seen this. I have been to plenty of Church's worldwide (Baptist, Protestant, non Denominational, Lutheran, Catholic, and the list goes on)  and have not come across this even once. If you have, then I suggest you reach out to them and ask them why. I think you may be just regurgitating the propaganda spread by the wt and not really ever experienced this either. 

You're joking! The remark seems almost too disingenuous to answer.

I was raised United Presbyterian. Our family received pledge envelopes to put in the collection plate at services. Put in the amount pledged. Like any charity, a pledge was used as the basis to try to secure a greater pledge. My non-churchgoing dad even had words with the pastor about it, since my mom did not work outside of the home, thus he was the one who ended up paying.

My sister still is Presbyterian, Reformed. She tithes 10%. It is what's done.

What seems more trusting in God to you - a contribution box in the back where people may or may not give anonymously, or a collection plate passed through the rows and everyone nearby will know just how much one puts in?

On 9/18/2017 at 5:56 PM, Shiwiii said:

If you have, then I suggest you reach out to them and ask them why.

I think you would have to be pretty obtuse to ask this question. I think I know why.

13 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The last six times I challenged you to prove I was a liar with just ONE instance out of 7,000 or so posts, you choked, and were not able to do so.

There was the statement you made that the sole purpose of the law was to serve for our happiness.

Not only is it incorrect, but it is an untruth that underlyies ALL of your incessant bellyaching. It's not about us.

You clearly think it is. At least, your comments clearly indicate you think it.

There is such a thing as the sanctification of God's name, you know. 

On 9/15/2017 at 2:15 PM, Shiwiii said:

I thought that the wt did't ask for money? Or is it literally about a plate being passed? 

I noticed that in the past few years, lots and lots of property has been sold in Brooklyn and surrounding areas as well as some kh's. Why this sudden grab for money? In addition to this, we can see in the screen shot above that credit cards are now an option? Really? Whatever happend to what Russell said way back when? Here is a quote from next weeks wt study that quotes yesteryear:

It is a sin to tell persons who would like to donate to their cause of choice how to do it?

In recent weeks I have been helping a relative who has fallen on hard times. She is unable to work full time and what work she does is at $9.00 per hour. To my astonishment I find hers is a tithing church - is yours one of those, Shiwiii? - and she gives 10% to her income to it. It is given in a way so it can be kept track of - in pledge envelopes in the person's name.

I do not know that it is required. She might be able to work out a deal with them, but the point is she would have to. They did help her out a bit with their food kitchen for a time, but with 10% tithing, I'm sure they have made it back several times over.

My point is that at the Kingdom Hall, I can give 50% of my income or nothing at all. Nobody knows. I have to go back to a contribution box at the back of the auditorium to donate. No one knows if I do or not. Nobody approaches me. These is no collection taken, certainly no pledge envelopes, and unless I choose to use checks (or credit card at assemblies), it is completely anonymous. Even if I do use such things, it is only the account servant who notices.

The Witness are the least donation conscious of any religion out there. Vent your indignation, @Shiwiii, on the 10% tithe churches, of which there are many, and after that, on the ones that track donations through pledge envelopes, of which there are many more, and after that, on the ones that use peer pressure public pass the plate collections, which constitutes just about everyone else.

Way back in the day, Merrill used to tell me about his old church, where music accompanied the collection, and attendants shook the plates at the end of long poles in beat with the music. Put some coins in and the congregation would hear a CHINK! CHINK! CHINK! It's quiet money they wanted.

13 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The JW singer Prince ... lived a lifestyle, and had associates both personal and professional that you and I would be disfellowshipped for.

If a loony-bin liar carries on about the GB, it is 'one of those things.' Everyone knows his pathetic hatred.

But if he starts lying about Prince, MY PRINCE, THEN he has crossed a line of decency. Before he slanders the man, he should list each transgression he thinks he 'got away with' accompanied by proof and um - to quote his constant refrain - "FACTS!! DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHAT FACTS ARE?! " without which rants are worth (to use his favorite words)

        "ZIP - ZERO - NADA"

I think he will not find any.

5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Turns out that all 4 of the gospel writers are also anonymous.

All anonymous! None of it's any good! No one was qualified!

I'm quitting this religious gig and enrolling in college! There everyone is qualified. I know they are because they all went to college themselves.

I just hope that idiot dropout Bill Gates doesn't come around or the ghost of Steve Jobs. They are not qualified either and I just trashed my iPad and my laptop on that account. If my wife can prove she has a Home Economics degree, I'll ask her to make me coffee.