TrueTomHarley

On 10/7/2017 at 10:33 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I have often wondered what would happen if I landed on the Warwick front lawn in a helicopter,  showed up at the Lobby, unannounced, with several Halliburton #103 aluminum suitcases filled with hundred dollar bills, opened them and showed the money to the receptionist, and asked to see one of the Governing Body for a special, personal, guided tour of the new Headquarters facility.

Think they could fit me in the same morning?

No, I think they would fit you in a strait jacket.

The days was going so fine until they had to spoil it with grubbing for money.

Four hours! That's how long the annual meeting lasted. Four hours of streaming all the latest. Four hours of of experiences and details and history of building the new headquarters. Then, four talks spreading new light so brilliant it made Hiroshima and Nagasaki look like an overcast day.

And then spoiling it all - I couldn't believe it - in the midst of it, 30 seconds of shameless groveling for money. They actually (brace yourselves) - they actually suggested that those present might donate if they wanted to!!!, and (GASP!) they even said where they could do it (at the contribution box)!!!!

30 seconds' mention of money in a four hour period! @Shiwiii is right. It's all about money with these guys.

Oh, and that letter Shiwiii spirited out, that he was so excited about sharing - almost wetting himself in excitement? That letter that extra contribution stations should be established? I looked and looked for ours (our meeting was at our Kingdom Hall) and I discovered it! That slot in the counter that used to be designated as the Kingdom Hall fund but was taped over when that fund was combined with the WWW? ... It was UNCOVERED  again!!!!! and also labeled Worldwide Work! 

I tell you, it made Joel Osteen look like Johnny Appleseed! What a shameless example of greed!!!

5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

She was severely overworked single mom with health problems and no teeth, living in abject poverty, and had five children, three of which were dying of Cystic Fibrosis.

That is enough to make anyone crazy.

 

And yet she could still object to someone 'rude, crude, and a bore!" What an amazing woman.

5 hours ago, Jay Witness said:

He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our day."

If @JW Insider didn't have to keep messing with 607 BCE, they probably wouldn't have to rewrite anything!

5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

to bellow.

There was a study - it was not specifically about Witnesses - that concluded the topic studied has much to do with whether students leave the religion of their youth or not. Students in business and engineering do it less.

If you combine that with a scenario where you are living at home and not on campus....

If you combine that with a scenario where you do not take on massive debt, thus ensuring you will HAVE to work full time for many years to come, then you maximize your chances of coming out with a net gain.

On the other hand, many courses of study amount to little more than unscrewing your head and inviting someone to pour in all the ideas that Paul dismissed as refuse.

5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

If the Aeronautical Engineer that designed the airplane you rode on did not have a college education, it is a safe bet you WOULD be getting a Divine Education, right now.

This comment, as usual, has nothing to do with anything and is just you building a platform on which to bellow. I never said college was worthless. I said a day of divine education is worth 1000 years of it.

14 hours ago, Ann O'Maly said:

The funny thing is, old publications are JWs' worst enemy!

They routinely say in publications: 'At that time we thought this' or 'this view was held at that time' or something similar. They make no secret - in fact, they advertise - that things have changed. I think it is less of an enemy than you think.

1 hour ago, tromboneck said:

apostastates........ ? How about apostrophes?

Back in the day, I worked at the food counter, when they used to serve the pre-packaged items at assemblies. One of the items was a 'pasta salad.' You would say that so and so ordered 'a pasta salad.' In time, I could not resist calling them 'apostacy salads.'

13 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Yes, but only by those whose income or power to control that money was affected by it, and those they were able to delude, or cut in on a "piece of the action".

This also is nonsense, like most of what you say,  and it also betrays a basic misunderstanding of people and how they are motivated. The ones with income and power tell the others what to do and they do it. That's how the chief priests stirred up the common people to demand Jesus' death - people who had kind of liked him.

It is like the verse says in the JTR translation: "If they have hated me, they will nevertheless love you, unless there is drivel from the GB."

10 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Years ago, an ex-relative once told me I was "crude, rude, and a bore!'

What in the world was wrong with that crazy person?

Just now, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

It is a crying shame that we whose core theology is true and wholesome have lost ALL credibility because of the 85% drivel that surrounds it.

This is nonsense and it betrays a basic misunderstanding of people and their motivations.

The truth was bitterly resisted long before any 'drivel' came along.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I will continue on "dishonesty" with this example, and there is much more. Everyone knows how starting the topic of "the cross" in the Reasoning book. I will copy/paste  this part from Reasoning book; 

Seven years ago an evangelical preacher researched and published the truth about the cross. It was a sensation. ABC went on and on about the article. If Jehovah's Witnesses had said it (as they have) the article would not line the bottom of their birdcage. It matters little what is said - what matters is who says it.

http://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2010/11/did-jesus-die-on-a-cross.html

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

There are metaphors and metonymy. There are homonyms, homographs and homophones. And much more.

When I mentioned this to Brother Madonia from the old country, he exclaimed: "Onomatopoeia!"

On 10/7/2017 at 3:58 AM, INTREPID TRAVELLER said:

I also endured Detention in Military prison for 14 months Srecko - I don't regret the experience because I also learned a lot about myself and about others while in prison. 

But we found out later that brothers are allowed to take alternative service now ......"New Light" . 

This is an organization that enjoys having people being persecuted because it "markets" their goals ~ 

If someone from the 1950's was resurrected and began to complain how science had taken advantage of him - depriving him of a flat screen color TV whereas it hypocritically bestowed them upon later generations, would you say he had a valid point?

Time marches on. New things come to light. Positions evolve. It happens everywhere. It is not a plot to work you over.

The annual meeting entertained briefly the notion that angels, too, may have played a role in the building - I think they said in legal and safety issues, for example.

That was a novel thought - angels participating! With only minor imagination, one can imagine the following heavenly scene, in the spirit of that conference to fool Ahab:

Brother Wingedwarrior strode into the room and asked for his daily assignment. The other angels looked strangely relieved, but the one in charge looked sheepish.

Finally, he said: "Brother, your assignment today is to monitor @James Thomas Rook Jr." (give me artistic licence here. I admit this is a stretch)

"Aw, C'mon!!" Wingedwarrior cried in disgust, throwing his clipboard on the table so violently that it spilled the coffee urn, splashing angels nearby, even soaking their wings, which are not supposed to get wet. It was an accident, but since angels are perfect, several in the room looked at him suspiciously. "Why me? You guys  have it in for me!"

"Look, brother, you know how it is. We drew lots. It fell on you."

"Well, it's a dumb system, anyway, named after some loser who didn't know enough to get out of Gay City! I'm not going to let it dictate my life!"

"See here, Brother WW, we all must make sacrifices. Of course, you'd rather work with someone appreciative - we all would - but many assignments in God's service are lowly - and some are downright disgusting. As you know, James bought that huge warehouse in Mt. Moron, New York, and he has converted it into a graphics studio. We hear he plans 400 releases in the upcoming year. Someone has to watch him. Just look at the idiot stuff he has displayed. It's hard to believe he is an adult:

12 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

 

These are my favorites ... if you disregard the "Tight Pants Tony" comedy.

 

 

 

"Think of the love you'll be showing to God. Think of the love for your brothers. Think of the love for those creatures below whom the Word likes," the head angel continued smoothly.

If they lay the 'love' stuff on long enough, they can get you to do anything. At last, Brother WW grumbled:

"Alright, alright, I'll do it. Where is a hard hat?"

"Ha ha! Brother WW, you are too funny. We are spirit creatures and we have no need of har..."

"LOOK, YOU ASSIGNED ME TO MONITOR JTR!!!! NOW, WHERE IS A HARDHAT?!!!!"

For one brief moment, the head angel seemed taken aback. Presently he murmured: "We'll look about. They may be one kicking around here somewhere."

12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

After reading your text, my conclusion would be that all are brainwashed no matter are they 24/7 or 2/2. You are sure how students are deceived because mount of hours in class, but i will say that WT education program is much effective because they have same result (brainwashed) with only 4 hours a week :))))))))))))))     

I think you interpret holding a different opinion as yourself as being 'brainwashed. At 2/2 with total 4 hours per week, all the rest of the time carrying on as normal? You're joking!

12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

"How could anybody be so stupid? No"

Yes. If you claim you were brainwashed at only 4 hours per week, you only testify to how stupid and helpless you think you are. Why not just say you changed your mind, reassessed your goals? I have done that. Everyone has. People change their minds. There is no shame in saying that. But if you carry on that the only reason you could have reversed a decision you made is that you were brainwashed - surely that is pathetic.

Look, I didn't say they were brainwashed in college. I said college splendidly meets one classic criteria of brainwashing: separate the victim from all that is familiar. Ones who later come to regret their college time seldom say they are brainwashed, despite that 24/7 criteria. How much more ridiculous to say it happened with 4 hours per week.

9 hours ago, Witness said:

Easy to say - how far do you commute? 

Tacking on a 30 minute commute both ways, twice a week, is not nothing. I don't want to blow it off as though it were. There are no examples of great inconvenience in our circuit, but that is not to say it is not so elsewhere. 

Nor will I pretend that even loyal ones may not grouse a bit, even as they understand the overall benefit. Of course, disloyal ones will bellow till the cows come home, but even loyal ones may not turn on a dime. 

One of the reasons Jehovah's organization works and others do not - and least not on such a scale - is that Witnesses have come to love the entire brotherhood, regardless of where in the world they may live, and do not obsess about their own immediate interests. They don't all figure they have to all go over to Benin and see for themselves and each ponder over the balance statement and have special sessions to discuss it and take a vote on it because no one other than themselves can be trusted - they just don't. They've decided the ones having oversight are trustworthy - they've given no cause to think otherwise, as they adhere to the same healthful scriptural teachings - so they grin and bear it if some policy does not work to their immediate benefit. 

47 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You are funny. Maybe kids would believe this. Not me :))))

You are indeed an unusual person.

15 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

What Bible said that ???? :))))))

You're right. They would have evaporated as a religon rather than go to the government and fill out some forms.

14 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

In Mexico, in one period of time JW was registered as Cultural Society and can operate in the country with real estate that was stayed in WT property.

The rules are doubtless different in each country and I am not everywhere. I speak of the U.S.

11 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

and in time all existing KH are transferred in the hand of WT corporation.   

Of course. This is a no-brainer. You ought not carry on as though it were evil.

Nor should you carry on about it being a 'corporation.' It is only a corporation because the laws of this world will not let you operate otherwise. Even the old individual halls were usually  'corporations' - as are church bodies - because that is the only way legally permitted for a group to own property. Even the 'apostles and old men' of the first century would have organized themselves as a corporation if that were a necessity to legally operate.

This is a big 'Duh' and for you and yours carry on as though you've discovered the secrets of the dark side is a bit much.

12 minutes ago, Witness said:

You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool; you slaughter the fatlings, but you do not feed the flock.

Well, proceeds from selling an underused building have built half the Kingdom Halls in Benin.*  Surely that is worth something. They get fed. And they will appreciate it, having long done without. Are they not also the flock?

*Not literally. Don't go off on this.

6 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

Back to "passing the plate", does anyone have any information that could shed light onto the subject that contrasts what has already been presented? 

No. It has been established Witnesses don't do it. What more 'information' can be said? They either do it or they don't do it. Visit a Hall to see that they don't do it.

However, I do have information on better economic use of Kingdom Halls, which you also brought up. Historically, Witnesses living in different areas struck out from the main Kingdom Hall to build one of their own, in their own communities. Over time, some of these Halls became overcrowded and some dwindled into under-use. What a responsible use of resources - @James Thomas Rook Jr. will agree with me on this, for he is not a selfish person who thinks only of himself - to consolidate where need be, even to shut 'underperforming' buildings - so that the good of the worldwide congregation of God is realized, even if it means a longer twice-a-week commute for some who lovingly acquiesce to this financially responsible direction.

After all, shut down one dog of a Kingdom Hall in a US area that has not filled it, and you can build 20 in poorer nations that greatly need them. How loving is that?

Imagine - calling the other guy Rocketman at the U.N. and getting the whole world to join in the refrain. How can you not give a thumbs-up when a guy does that? And then some kid comes along and photoshops an Elton John concert playing that very song, replacing John's head with Kim's, and inserts the huge video screen backdrop of North Korean rockets wheeling about, the shrill newscaster shrieking, the troops goosestepping - how do you expect any guy with a sense of humor to hold it together? It is as Paul said - the world is a theater.

The only thing that might check your hilarity briefly is the unpleasant thought that a misstep, for starters,  will result in half the planet up in smoke. But that is small potatoes.

Is it reckless? Tillerson certainly seems the more stable of the two, doesn't he? Unless they are both playing good cop/bad cop. And, to be fair, while everyone hopes for diplomacy, the diplomacy that has led straight up to the present situation and will presumably lead up to one where North Korean missiles are parked on your toes, should at least be mentioned as having worked out not that splendidly. Isn't there a Neville someone-or-other who favored negotiations back during another evil time? Or do I misunderstand even that? The trouble with history is that whenever you think you have something figured out, along comes someone from a different perspective to upend all your notions.

Meanwhile, it was Putin - mean, nasty, Chief Officer of Evil, His Wickedness, 'murderer and a thug' Putin - all that remains in the West is to photoshop him with Devil's horns, grinning ear-to-ear at his laptop as he hacks US elections - who supplied a key bit of understanding when he visited China. Sanctions will never work on North Korea, he said - Kim will see every single one of his people starved to death before he will give up on his nukes. Why? Because he knows about Libya and Iraq. Though Saddam swore up and down he had no weapons of mass destruction - which turned out to be exactly correct - that did not stop his enemies from taking him out and killing a family member or two in the process.

Look, he is not my friend - Putin. I mean, he hasn't exactly been nice to my people, Jehovah's Witnesses, lately, has he? But give credit where credit is due. He nailed it. Tellingly, when CNBC or someone covered that Chinese meeting - if Putin so much as tied his shoe there, they reported it - they covered every detail EXCEPT his statement about Saddam, thus allowing perception to stand in the US that Kim is completely unhinged - a perception he does nothing to clear up by his own pontifications - listening to him is not exactly like listening to John Tesh, is it?

Jehovah's Witnesses are neutral in the world's affairs for noble reasons - it is not God's idea for the world to be carved up into scores of squabbling factions ever playing 'King-of-the-Mountain" and he will soon act to  bring about his own kingdom replacement. However, another reason to be neutral - albeit a less noble one - is that it is almost impossible to get the truth on anything - you are forever acting in the dark - for every outlet spins 'truth' their own way according to their own agenda. Even Western media condemnation about calling Kim Rocketman must be weighed against their approval of calling Putin a murderer and a thug, a Senator's description that they picked up on and used freely. Is it wise to taunt him like that? Whenever in my house-to-house ministry I spot a murderer and a thug, I cross over to the other side of the street.

4 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

5 hours ago, Shiwiii said:

well then if you have something to say, say it. It won't hurt my feelings.

I've said it.

"What do you say?"

"I've said it."

"Do you have any more?"

'Howoooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!     ...  Hey Bulldog,   the Beatles

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Before you can be a Theocratic Man, you must FIRST be a Man.

I'm not sure exactly what you posted or if it means that I owe you an apology, but if it does, then I do. It was the other fellow I was speaking to mostly - I just brought you in for the purpose of background serenade.

2 hours ago, Cos said:

First you made the comment that the only evidence for supported of the Trinity was 1 John 5:7, but now you say the Scriptural evidence “is laughably small”. First it was only one, now it is a small amount, how much Scriptural evidence is require?

I was being charitable and allowing the silly stuff you brought up to be included as 'evidence.'