TrueTomHarley

You know, this may be a matter of style. I may read too much into this. But.....

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I can not help you any more.

I would never ever say "I can not help you anymore." And I have tussled with many on this forum. I have had an entire thread taken down because it was deemed too offensive to apostates. But in my most heavy 'rumble' mode, I would not say "I can not help you any more." 

It would simply reveal that I am too full of myself. And I try hard not to be. If there is one thing that consistently is a turn-off, it is people who are full of themselves.

It is God's thoughts, higher than mine, recorded in Scripture, that is the source of help. The best I can do is not screw it up in relating it, and focus on what is most relevant.

I think self-exaltation is a trait common to many who oppose here. They think very highly of themselves. God forbid that they should learn! No. They have already learned and they are here only to 'help' those not so enlightened.

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I know how some of you, or almost all, as JW member had doubts and conscience questions about talking with someone like me.

I have neither. It is a matter of showing consideration for the other person, not stumbling anyone. Have you forgotten such things entirely? It is another common theme of many who oppose. The notion of yielding for another person wears out very quickly. What they love to talk about instead are their rights!

1 hour ago, Anna said:

Of course, just because someone is opposed to most of what we do and say, doesn't mean we have to dismiss everything they say, even when it's true. Why should that stumble someone if we don't?

Given what most of us have learned about not  'saying a greeting' to ones like John spoke of, I don't fault him for it. Actually, he was probably right. A 'like' is pretty much of a greeting. Some might not take it quite that literarly but it is not for me to fault those who do.

it makes it a little dicey hanging out here, where all Witnesses who hang out are avant garde. I mean, they're not the typical Witnesses. But since they stumble across the site as did I, by chance, traipsing over from Twitter - and they have no reason to think it not a fine spot for spiritual discussion. But then they find it is not necessarily so - that it CAN be, but is not reliably so - I feel I should remember that those brothers are around and not insist upon my freedoms in their presence. 

1 hour ago, Anna said:

I'm not surprised since you give out likes like they were an endangered species!

 

There! Happy?

I knew nothing of this brother. Thank you.

I did see the movie, though. I liked it when the terminal manager reacted to Hanks' in-house business. "I don't make that much money!"

3 hours ago, Gone Fishing said:

Bro.Barr I remember particularly. When I was studying first (1972), I visited Bethel UK. He was working on one of those lead type-setting machines in the factory. He pulled me out of the group and spent about 45 minutes explaining and demonstrating the whole process to me. It was really interesting. At lunch, he introduced me to his wife Mildred. Some years later, (1980), I visited Brooklyn Bethel and attended the WT study. At the end, tap tap on my shoulder. Who was it ? Jack Barr just sitting in the row behind. "Hi" he said using my first name. " Which congregation are you in now?". And we carried on the conversation as if no years or service privilege had separated us.

There was another in Bethel with same first and last name. I know him. He married at Bethel. We later sent him an anniversary card and the GB Barr answered! He wrote a few chatty paragraphs saying where he had been lately. 'Boy he sure gets around for being just a year at Bethel,' I said to my wife. The wives names didn't match, but I figured maybe the name I knew was a nickname. It took a few minutes to figure it out.

Imagine - a GB member writing a few chatty paragraphs to someone he does not know but doesn't want to ignore. These are not proud brothers.

For those who follow such things, absurd accusations against Russia are made routinely in the U.S  - mostly for reasons relevant to American politics. It is said Russia tried to swing the election though hacking. Through Facebook and Twitter. It truly gets loony. CNN ran a story of how Russia try to stoke racial hatred in the US through use of the Pokemon Go game. 

'Is there no accusation too crazy?' Russian outlets have howled. 'Is there no limit?'

These reports of religious persecution suggests that there is none. The Witness website, jw.org, is banned as extremist in Russia, and no where else in the world. Anyone else can visit. Everyone knows what extremism is and they know that Jehovah's Witnesses are not it.

It all goes to suggest that no report, no matter how crazy it may sound, can be dismissed out of hand. No report is too scurrilous to be true. They all must be carefully considered.

Andrew Sorokowski, a columnist in the Ukraine posed the question: "Why would a nation of 144 million risk its reputation to persecute 175 thousand? Yet Russia has done so and its international reputation is sinking as feared. Not solely for that reason, of course, but it sure doesn't help.

https://risu.org.ua/en/index/expert_thought/authors_columns/asorokowski_column/66964/

Alexander Dvorkin, who got the entire anti-cult meme rolling in Russia, decried the ban of the New World Translation. 'Look, I don't like it,' he said in effect, but it is a Bible.' To ban a Bible makes us look like a nation of goons. If we want to hold our heads up among educated persons, we can't do things like this.' He pushed hard for the movement to ban Witnesses, but the result overshot even his goals - once again, tarnishing the image of a country once great.

http://www2.stetson.edu/~psteeves/relnews/170822a.html

1 minute ago, Srecko Sostar said:

:))))) i am not worthy of your nerves ....

When I liked the comment from someone who I thought fit the description of ones John says we should not greet, I found I had stumbled someone - a person who has since left this forum. I was not able to placate him by saying: 'well, even villains behave now and then.' (I am not calling you a villain here - that's not my intent)

So, considering what Paul wrote about giving up some rights so as not to stumble 'these little ones,' I resolved not to do it anymore. But if I did, I would do it now.

4 hours ago, Anna said:

I am assuming your husband would let you know ("consult") if he was going to send money to his relatives and not just do it without telling you, and not do anything that you are not aware of, it's called communication.  Marriage is a partnership, where both are equal but only one makes the final decision.

One of my non-Witness dad's friends was a horrible tyrant at home. His wife wanted a computer. He would not permit it!

He was tormented terribly after his wife died unexpectedly. He repented, but it was too late. In relating the story to me, Dad said: "If Evelyn had wanted a computer the first thing I would know about it was to see it right here on this table!" And she didn't work outside the home. 

4 hours ago, Anna said:

A woman can make or break a household, that’s how much power they have...Well, that's Anna's wisdom for today.

"There ain't no limit to the amount of trouble women bring." - Bob Dylan

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

As Arauna you are rather serious-minded, responsible, and stable. 

You have the gift of tact and diplomacy, and possess a charming, easy-going nature which endears you to others.

You have a serious desire to understand the heart and mind of everyone, and could be very effective in a career or in volunteer work where you are handling people and serving in a humanitarian way.

This name also gives you a love of home and family, and as a parent you would likely be fair and understanding.

You remember the thoughtful little expressions of affection and appreciation that mean so much to others, and you have the ability to create a warm and loving environment.

I was about to explode over this but then I calmed down. I began to think it was not intended the way I, at first, took it. No matter. It lays groundwork for a good post:

After correctly assessing @Arauna's gifts, Srecko suggests she "could be very effective in a career or in volunteer work where you are handling people and serving in a humanitarian way." Oh yeah! Go for it Arauna! Why do you waste your time here? Ycu could amount to something. Your gifts could be useful. You could help fix the world! It's almost there; your talents might tip the balance. [okay, okay, so maybe Srecko was not recommending a career in the world but merely acknowledging she would be valuable anywhere, including right where she is.]

She could be one more talented person fed into the ever-open maw of a world that consumes them all without response.

Srecko is another strange bird to me - a lot of them are. It must be me. They are all normal and I am the weirdo! But he alternately says things very perceptive and very obtuse - confusing true tyranny with the traffic cop's direction to walk in the crosswalk. I can't figure it out.

If you leave God's congregation, you leave it. We all have free will. But it seems that if you do so you should take ownership of the world you have chosen. When you see mayhem on the TV - the fruitage of man's independence from God - embrace it! It's yours.  Witnesses will take ownership of Jehovah's organization, imperfect though it is. The only significant way I can picture a human organization doing much better is to banish the humans. You should take ownership of what you have chosen.

There is only one significant advantage from casting off the Christian congregation that I can picture - the delirious freedom of going where no one can tell you what to do! You can be frreeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  It is intoxicating - like a drug. All other considerations - material and spiritual - go out the window!

And yet even that is not true - that you go where no one can tell you what to do. It may be true in the human sense, but that is the petty sense. By giving up on the sure resurrection hope, old age and death will surely tell you what to do. By giving up on the 'wisdom from above,' the 'schemes and trickery of men will surely tell you what to do,' for the air has authority. By giving up on the Bible's complete explanation of suffering, the 'shit happens' outlook of the world will surely tell you what to do.

By the time you pay your new master his dues, God's congregation and the GB will look positively like doddering indulgent grandparents in comparison. Witnesses sacrifice some petty freedoms for the sake of the large ones - no Witness would ever say otherwise. If you lose all faith in God's promises, however, those sacrifices seem for naught and people start complaining. It is no more complicated than that. 

1 hour ago, Nana Fofana said:

Fight Club may seem an odd choice to review on a site about gender:

I didn't see this movie because it is about ...well.....fighting. But every so often I hear about it connecting with something redeeming.

I should not say it. It is too crass. I am not in her league. She is too refined. I am too much like the idiot who hollers: "Hi Yo Silver!!" when he hears the William Tell Overture.

Ah, well.

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

I always have had to watch my personality (having trained for many years as a opera singer ...It is not too late!  You do not want to be the 5 virgins who did not have their lamps shining!   

It's not over till the fat lady sings.

 

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

so this is why I have spent more time here on the forum because I just could not get myself to concentrate on my books!

 I know that feeling.

It's not mine, though I wish it were. It certainly fits. It is that of author Harlan Coben, his tweet. I must read one of his books someday in payment. I trust there will be nothing untoward in it - I've no reason to think so, granted that it will not be a church hymnal.

"Grow up, TTH, would you?" says....pretty much anyone.

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

You have a serious desire to understand the heart and mind of everyone, and could be very effective in a career or in volunteer work where you are handling people and serving in a humanitarian way.

Yes. That is why she is where she is - with Jehovah's organization.

harlan.jpg_large

PS: Isn't this pic one of ours? I could swear I have seen it. It is pretty chaste to come from anywhere other than JWs. Isn't it in the Live Forever book? Nope.

But I am still not convinced it is not ours. Maybe it is common stock which both he and they used.  Once I accused @Ann O'Maly for using our photo to promote her very opposite cause. To her satisfaction, and my chagrin, she pointed out that it was not 'ours.' It was common stock that we had purchased, but anyone else could, too.

20 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

The only thing that is offered by you is gossip and opinions from your time at Bethel. How does that bring anyone into spiritual maturity if the very fiber scripture talks about, you go against? 

Were it not for the flood of hateful remarks directed at theocratic authority, I would most likely agree with you. But like pus from a wound, it is everywhere. Maybe there is a place for someone from us who spills the dirt before the scoundrels do.

Online there are endless persons who spill dirt on God's organization. Often it is true dirt, or it is based upon something true. 'No human is able to exercise perfect self-control,' today's Watchtower says. Same with other qualities. Therefore there will always be dirt. Opposers misrepresent and exaggerate and always always always impute wrong motive. Eventually, John Q Publisher comes across it, and because he has been exposed to not a hint of it, he is floored - and in many cases he swallows it along with the negative spin supplied - and the spiritual consequences are dire. Therefore it may not be a bad thing if someone spills dirt in a 'loyal' context. You could almost liken it to a vaccine - exposure to a little bit of the crap by a physician better prepares one for when they encounter it in the wild. At any rate, you can do nothing about it, so you may as well adapt.

I don't think it is great, either, but there may be a practical use to it. People spill all kinds of confidential stuff here. It amazed me at first. Then they say where there is secrecy there is tyranny. The remark is not completely wet, but it is misplaced. 'Confidential' is not the same as 'secret.' Nor is it the same as 'not intended for public distribution.' John gave the reason that not everything is intended for everyone, and it reveals no ill intent whatsoever. Quite the contrary. 'I have many things to say to you, but you are not yet ready to bear them,' Jesus said. "Oh yes we are," says everyone on this forum (including me). I can picture some (if they dared) combing through all the stuff Jesus held back so that they could post it online in order to to fill our 'right to know.' Still, since the liars abound,  'loyal' ones can put a proper spin on the dirt they reveal.

Though I don't like to see confidential things displayed online, they yet serve to strengthen general confidence in the organization God uses. Shiwiii, for example, posted that confidential letter in which Bethel reminded local publishers to donate timely. He was hoping I would be outraged at the greedy Watchtower. Instead, I feigned outrage at the greedy Bible writers, for it was clear everything the organization did was based upon scripture. Even when you don't like the general direction in which godly counsel is heading, you nonetheless have to concede that it is godly - supported scripturally - and thus you can ask yourself: 'to what degree am I willing to be 'taught by Jehovah?' even as the ones publishing it ask themselves the same question. 

I will go out on a limb here and risk being presumptuous, but I'm not sure the brothers know what to do with the pure deceit that is so readily spewed online by many. I think they probably reign in some instincts on how to respond because that is what the Bible says they should do. Maybe I should too, and others here. But we get clobbered by apostates and one wants to do something about it, if at all possible. "I am stronger than you, and I thank God for it," says Miss Pross to the wicked foreign woman who would cut her throat. She fights not for herself, but for someone to whom she is loyal. It is the first century playing out all over again. There is not a NT writer who does not deal with it. The apostate issue was fueled by same thing then as it is today: a contempt for authority. (Jude 8) It's hard to know how to deal with it. 

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

Please, do not let my lord pay attention to this worthless Naʹbal, for he is just like his name. Naʹbal is his name, and senselessness is with him..

There are some things I have not quite gotten my head around - even given that names could be assigned retroactively, like Peter and the rock, but .... during his lifetime? To his face? Did he introduce himself: "Pleased to meet you. My name is Worthless"?

It is almost like God being Hosea's matchmaker. Could I be so big? It's easy enough to get stuck with a 'wife of fornication' all on one's own without requiring divine help. Okay, okay, some of them had concubines back then, but still.

And don't get me started on Ezekiel staring at a brick. "Honey, I'm hooommee!" he hollers. "Tell me about your day, dear," his wife responds.

It's why those depictions don't entirely fly when these guys are portrayed as Ozzie and Harriet types, ever concerned about their dress and grooming. But we recognize the good intentions, and so we play along. After all, who can say what things were really like back in the day?

Imagine a system where all one must do to enjoy the status of 'teacher' is to partake! Instantly, they are recognized as an authority! Genuine annointed Christians will follow this route, of course. But any Tom, Dick or Harry can do it, too. Afterwards, by talking a good game, they will convince many of their special credentials. It won't affect the running of things, because elder/servant bodies are formed on other considerations - but some of the local friends will be wowed.

I've known six locally. Only one was generally accepted. Witnesses don't judge such things, but one can become aware of a grapevine consensus. The one 'unchallenged' was a tireless pioneer who had been around forever and was always in harmony with theocratic organization - in no way did she 'compete.' (and even her acknowledgment was not universal)

Others were all unusual in one way or another, and one of them got to be so critical of things that another ceased association with her. Still another began partaking only after (not immediately after) being appointed an elder. The circuit overseer approving his appointment, said that he qualified - because he did - he met the scriptural qualifications to an acceptable degree. But he added as an aside: 'He's not the most humble person in the world.' He and the hyper-critical one became best of friends; he got to be critical himself, and they eventually departed together. He is still alive and is generally thought to be an 'off the wall' apostate. I think he has authored a book or two. For whatever it's worth, his family, before becoming Witnesses, included some who claimed psychic status and did water witching. 

I can't imagine a better arrangement than that of the current 'slave.' They must be of the annointed AND they must have been refined, with decades of full-time humble service. No harm done, then, if someone partakes through unbalance or self-deception. The path they take is only between themselves and God, which is how a truly annointed one would want it anyway.

27 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

where he made the heart the LITERAL, PHYSICAL seat of motivation

Yes, I remember this.

28 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

also far too low-profile and unassuming to be an organizational leader.

As am I. (not that I have ever applied for the job) Strange at the qualities associated with leading - as in David, a downright hothead at times (Nabal, for example) whereas bashful, modest Saul - well, just look at how he turned out.

13 minutes ago, Anna said:

I just checked LinkedIn and wow

Is there a way to find brothers on LI?

3 hours ago, JW Insider said:

His early research on personality changes in heart transplant patients

Are there some?

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

He repeated same sin, gross sin, three times in the same day... or night, whatever.

He got a package deal. They were a weakness all lumped in together. He didn't weep bitterly after each one and then do it again.  He wept when the entire course hit him.

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

I think we must now agree to disagree because you definitely think your way of thinking is OK and you can go ahead and sin and all will be forgiven.  However, Jesus did say: the road is narrow and there is few who are on it.  Why? Because one must stay steady to stay on this road... and it is cramped ....and narrow ..but at the end of the road is a beautiful paradise.

I haven't yet. Other things intervene. But I will. You would think something like a documentary on God's name would interest me. Somehow it doesn't. Or rather, it does, but not enough for it to go to the top of the stack.

This fellow Furuli's name pops up a lot. There may even be a brief exchange with him somewhere on my own blog - or maybe it was with someone else. I wonder who he is.

These brothers that write books - I wonder what they are like as people. My understanding is that the books are academic in nature. I have written two ebooks, and they have facts and history, but I would never call them scholarly. They are as much storytelling and anecdotes with large doses of humor inserted.

Even the third book cannot be called scholarly, though it is the one I will first try to get into print. I'll cut back on the jokes, too, but not an occasional measured bit of sarcasm. I hope it is a resource, but it will very much be a work of an apologist.

Though the educational opportunities at the London Museum are immense, I am fearful that @JW Insider squandered them all to hang out at the vending machines where they stock Milk Duds. Approvingly he commented that "the vast majority of staff are there to help manage the huge gift shop (and restock things like Milk Duds in the vending machines)"

Still, he was there to learn more about God - and Milk Duds are truly the food of the gods, so perhaps the time was well-spent after all. 'Do they stock Milk Duds in the vending machines?' was my first question that came to mind when he invited some. Actually, I'm not sure I have ever eaten any. If so, it was not often, and long ago.

I used to eat Necco wafers all the time, though, and to this day, I will reach for some when I see them. They are second only to candy corns, which I stay away from, because if I don't I will eat them until my stomach says: 'you idiot! what did you do that for.' As a boy, I used to walk to the nearby drug store with my friend to pick up some Necco wafers and if you got distracted reading Mad Magazine at the magazine section, a clerk would remind you that it was not a library. They really were just a nickel then - what are they now, $5? - and maybe that is how they got their name.

Driving to Pittsburgh recently - a trip I had to make more than once because of snafus with the Pennsylvania DMV,  I uncharacteristically fueled my trip with 2 Snickers bars and coffee. My stomach let me hear about it, but I don't like to stop and eat on such trips when I just want to get them over with, and a full meal makes me drowsy.

The Pennsylvania DMV is more finicky than the NYS DMV, and I did not think that was possible. Actually, I take it back. The NYS DMV was once pure torture - I can recall a local politician years ago campaigning to bring them to tow - he spoke into the camera with a live DMV loonnnnngggg line as backdrop. Some fellow in an adjacent DMV line once told me he was there to solve a situation caused by the seller of his car having died. 'He's going to wish he had died before this is over,' I told the one behind me.

But that was long ago. The NYS DMV, against all expectations, has for many years, gotten its act together and now delivers refreshingly pleasant service, if you consider such things 'service.' You may, but it is a little like the "full service" toll takers sign you will sometimes see at the bridge crossing, instead of a bin to throw your money into. "Worth every penny!" I sometimes tell the Thruway toll taker when I am paying up. One of them wisecracked back: "It is not!"

A BS? (beard sighting) 

I hope we get over this in time, as everyone else did long ago. Hippies and beatniks have long gone the way of the dinosaur.

8 hours ago, Anna said:

I still can't believe I missed several chances to go to the Museum. I went and toured the Mill Hill Bethel when our congregation organised a trip to London, and then instead of the museum I went to Kew gardens! I guess my excuse was I was 14 at the time...Then the last time I stayed in London was when I was invited to a Witness ball..and again no museum...This seems to be a kind of pattern with me. I stayed at a friends villa just 30 minutes from Pompeii,  (5 times!) and never once went to that ancient city....instead I went to the beach......

This reminds me of brothers ribbing each other years ago. One, a new parent, went on a child-development conference, something called (ready for this? The Better Baby Institute). On returning, he was quizzed by another.

Did you go in service while you were there? .... No

Did you go to meetings.... No

Well, did you pray?

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

but the vast majority of staff are there to help manage the huge gift shop (and restock things like Milk Duds in the vending machines).

THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!!

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

If any of these topics seem worthwhile on this forum, I will be happy to include them in discussions that come up, or topics that I start myself.

Yes....

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

and restock things like Milk Duds in the vending machines

Actually, despite some flippancy, I used to be obnoxious at museums - slowing everyone down so I could read each exhibit. Someday I'd like to get to London and the Louvre

Keep @JW Insider away from museums. #NoMuseums

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If somebody today made a "sin" and after that come to the state of repentance and god forgive him,  he is free from that sin.

If tomorrow he made new"sin" of same kind or another kind and after that come to the state of repentance and god forgive him,  he is free from that sin

There's a 'whole lotta sinnn' that can go on in that way - if even "tomorrow" he will do the same thing again. Is it possible for God to have a clean 'people for his name' - as Acts 15:14 says he should?

It sounds as though you would have his people become as but one team on the football league - not much different than any other. God becomes the loser that way. His name suffers. People look upon Christianity and say 'what good is it? It's just a matter of squabbling over doctrine.'

20 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

3 hours ago, Arauna said:

 

 

3 hours ago, Arauna said:

I want a yes or no answer please.  

you are very polite person when you tell, "please". I am giving you  + for that 

But you also said, "I want a yes or no answer". I am giving you - for that  

But there is no answer! Will one be forthcoming?

7 hours ago, Jay Witness said:

Mark Sanderson tells us that when the appeal at the Supreme Court was negative that they had to leave Russia immediately... but they had no tickets. He tells the committee members to just drive to the airport and on the way he's in contact with the travel desk at Watchtower.

The one thing that comes through loud and clear is that he was there, at some personal risk. I wonder how many eager to condemn him and his would risk putting their own rear ends in the line of fire.