7 hours ago, Anna said:

I saw a cloud the other day that looked like Jesus

There! Fair and square. Honestly earned. (as are your other posts here) A like!

9 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

I can't imagine having to explain these policies to someone in the door-to-door ministry.

You say that it is fallout from doing what no one else has attempted to do: monitor wrongdoing (of all sorts, but here specifically child abuse) so as to accomplish two things, which actually collapse into one. 1.) discover abusers so as to administer discipline, up to and including disfellowshipping, so as so follow God's command to keep congregation as clean as possible, and 2.) keep track of any abusers, so that they cannot slip out of one congregation and into another - as they can anywhere else.

You acknowledge missteps have probably occurred. Nonetheless, instances of abuse would never be associated with the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses were that organization like the general world of religion - which takes no interest in the conduct of its members and considers their conduct none of its business. 

Having said that, the brother who first proposed keeping track of such accused abusers has been assigned to permanent potato-peeling duty in the Bethel basement for upwards of 40 years now, and may be the inspiration for the book: "Forty Years a Watchtower Slave."

9 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

They had to lock the doors after that.

This is a common response to guard against crazies, not directed towards anyone in particular, to my knowledge. The disciples even locked their doors for a time. Jesus found a way to get around that, but anyone else would have had a hard time. Who knows - maybe even the Texas shooter in the Baptist church would have been dissuaded if he had had to first blast into the building from the outside.

I have thought the matter over carefully and have decided you are right.

At the next Bethel bigwig meeting, assuming that I am invited, I am going to insist upon a Weapons Servant for each congregation. 

The Weapons Servant will distribute arms to each publisher entering the meeting. Any sissies declining will be subject to counseling. Two elders will do - it is not, in its early stage - a judicial matter.

Publishers will be issued tommyguns, Ministerial Servants AK-47s, and elders Missile Launchers. Sisters will get Glock handguns. Children will be issue squirt guns. 

There is absolutely no question who should be the Weapons Servant in your congregation, but I am not sure of the others. Please forward a list of names. Forward also both scriptures to inspire ones so armed, and scriptures they do well to forget. 

1 hour ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

Biblical prophecy makes us understand that God will punish his people for being idolatrous

I think your definition of 'idolatrous' is off.

1 hour ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

How can we do it to understand it?
Studying the Bible

Right on. Study it.

1 hour ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

I have nothing to add and this conversation is closed.

Okay. Everyone else go home.

12 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

Humility is well accepted and, as you rightly said, it is appreciated that the GB has admitted some mistakes.

If you concede they are humble, have admitted some mistakes, and are tireless workers - and yet you would still be critical of them, you run the risk of being more exacting than God - or less merciful than God. Why would you want to run that risk?

For every verse there is about the virtue of arguing, there are ten about acquiescing. For every verse there is about debating, there are ten about obeying. I don't want to hash them all out. You know them as well as I. 

You don't have to parrot stuff you can't get your head around it. Simply say "I can't get my head around this." Get behind whatever you can. Sit out what you can't. 

12 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

A person who wants to argue on certain intentions does not necessarily want to create a sect or a division.

No, but it has that effect. Why go there?

12 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

The Bible, to give you an example, predicted that the preaching work would be suppressed by the king of the north (Russia) but the GB never said anything.
So should I be silent?
The Bible has foreseen that the prohibition will extend throughout the inhabited land (and hence the hopes of Brother Sanderson are miserable) and so I, who is right or wrong, should I be silent?

As long as you are not obnoxious about it, you are fine. But you sound as though you might be obnoxious about it, buttonholing brothers and trying to convince them how your way is right and theirs is wrong. Yes, you could make trouble for yourself that way. Why do it? 

These days, perhaps chastened by 1975,  they say such things as 'prophesy is best understood after the fact.' They don't do anti-types. That certainly cannot be said to be reckless. Why should you be reckless in their stead - making assertions that may or may not pan out? Say, if you must, 'maybe it will turn out some day that.....' and leave it at that.

Unlimited free speech is a Western concept, not a biblical one. The Bible, as you know, speaks of ones whose mouths it it necessary to shut - others who should be muzzled, others rejected after a warning or two for insisting upon their own way. 

12 hours ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

each of us should be adult enough and mature to study God's Word personally and also admit the possibility that some things that have been taught are wrong.

Sure. Nobody has a problem with this. it is setting yourself up as the public avenger of right that will make you trouble. 

It all boils down to how we are taught. Are we truly 'taught by Jehovah?' Or are we taught by means of clever humans out-arguing each other?

8 minutes ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

So you do not have to believe that I have written these things because I feel more enlightened or smarter.

Understood.

9 minutes ago, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

However, "telling the truth" also means admit that we are wrong with some things and that it is about to get a discipline.
This is in harmony with the Scriptures.

I think use of the expressions "tacking" and "the light gets brighter" are tacit admissions that we have been wrong with some things. Prominent ones in Bible times were wrong about many things, too. But I cannot recall one of them apologizing, other than Paul to the high priest, and few here would have demanded such an apology from him.

It is enough to occasionally admit to blunders, such as was done with overemphasis on 1975, and cover the rest with tacking and lights getting brighter. Everyone knows that humans are imperfect and make mistakes. What is important is to conduct oneself with humility and to 'pour oneself out' in God's service. This the GB has done, IMO.

"Leadership by apology" is the model in vogue today in the Western world. I don't think it is required, nor that it does any good. Honest-hearted persons do not demand it. Persons not honest-hearted are not satisfied with it.

7 minutes ago, Nana Fofana said:

Else the Bible might have to be as voluminous as your own writings, and ultra tedious too.

On 11/11/2017 at 7:31 AM, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

For these reasons, and for other reasons too, Jehovah's discipline will come to you - Joel 1: 5, 6  The discipline will surely be hard and for many brothers it will be a surprise. However the people leading and sanctifying the name of God (Jehovah), who preached in all the inhabited earth and speaks of the Kingdom of God bears witness to Jesus, what will be the people who will be saved at Armageddon.

.

Since they have greatly facilitated the preaching work into all the inhabited earth, perhaps God will go easier on them than you think.

Plus, by reading and meditating on the Word daily, and reflecting upon how things turn out, there is no reason to think they do not allow their Bible study to adequately discipline themselves. All of us need discipline, and we all mostly get it through this means. 

I think that you are at your best when you use your talents to focus upon your first remarks. Especially since you would never have discovered these things without their efforts and that of their forerunners.

On 11/11/2017 at 7:31 AM, Israeli Bar Avaddhon said:

My question is: to go where?

Should we go to religions who have taught abominations like the hell of fire, the trinity, the mother of God, innate immortality of the human soul, predestination, limbo, purgatory, and so on?

We should associate with those religions that have erased the Name of God from the Bible and their adoration by stupid controversy "do we know the exact pronunciation"?

Should we associate with those religions that have massacred millions of innocent people in wars of religion, crusades, inquisitions, witch-robbers? Those who have invented and used the most ingenious torture machines that history has known?

Or should we be "atheists" as if the mistakes of a religion fall on God?

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Thus, "the faithful and discreet slave" does not endorse any literature, meetings, or Web sites that are not produced or organized under its oversight." 

Check the definition of 'endorse.' You seem to be implying that they forbid it. 

In fact, their statement is much weaker than that of Paul to Timothy: "O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you. Avoid profane babbling and the absurdities of so-called knowledge." -  Tim 6:20 NABRE

On 11/10/2017 at 8:38 PM, Matthew9969 said:

To be fair, the watchtower isn't the only religion to claim they are a prophet and give one if not a few dates of the end of the world:

Years ago I discovered in my research that almost all the days are taken, and therein lies the key for spotting the end of the world.

http://www.tomsheepandgoats.com/2011/05/how-to-predict-the-end-of-the-world.html

46 minutes ago, Anna said:

Hey, leave my dad out of this! He's doing very well actually, he's a thin elder.

Great, just great! After I said he was putting on weight. Now Witness will declare me a false prophet!

6 hours ago, Witness said:

All that you are pointing out were quotes from the organization.  But you know that, right?  Matthew's words are:

IT'S AMAZING HOW YOU CAN TAKE THE WORDS "6,000 YEARS OF MANS EXISTENCE WILL END" AND MAKING IT END IN 1975 AND CONCLUDE THAT IT REALLY DIDN'T SAY THAT AT ALL.

Yes, because if the organization did "say that at all," they would have done it through "quotes from the organization," - and I think even he acknowledged the quotes disprove the allegation.

@Matthew9969 has stumbled across something that is misrepresented and exaggerated, but at root, it is based upon something that did happen. A lot of people did get pumped up back then. @Anna's dad even sold his skis, practically guaranteeing that he would put on weight, and it is all the GB's fault! Please, Witness - 42 years is a long time to be bitter. It is a long time to still say to our resident fisherman:

6 hours ago, Witness said:

  I truly pray you get off before its too late.

You're joking! This is something you pray about?

17 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

WHY? is the question that few people ever bother with .... but knowing WHY? will actually make anyone smarter.

Often the WHY is more important than the statement itself.

49 minutes ago, Matthew9969 said:

All things are possible with God

Are you saying they are not?

49 minutes ago, Matthew9969 said:

But we are not saying.

Didn't you just say that they did?

49 minutes ago, Matthew9969 said:

And don't any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975.

Didn't you just say Witnesses spoke of nothing else?

50 minutes ago, Matthew9969 said:

But the big point of it all is this, dear friends: Time is short. Time is running out

Do you think it is not?

On 11/9/2017 at 6:13 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

As to my knowledge from JWorg publications, person who is homosexual is allowed to be baptized and to become member of JW cong as long as he/she not practicing such behavior. In other words, Bro John Doe is a gay, but because he is passive gay or pedophile or ...  (he can have desire, and he have desire) because he have good self control and not practicing sinful desire, he can be invite for lunch in some family with ...minor kids.!?   

Did you ever hear a person say: "I am gay or I am a pedophile but I have good self-control and am not practicing anything bad so I am okay to invite to lunch with your family including your.....minor kids?

On 11/9/2017 at 6:13 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

But Jesus said, someone who have sinful thoughts, desires he already made a sin. No matter did he engaging in act or not. So, this is somehow in opposition to explanation we read before in text by JWorg. So, did someone who have just desire and never done nothing to realized it (he is made sin in mind and heart, and by Jesus words, he is wrongdoer) braking the unwritten law said by Jesus.                 Mat 5:27,28  "You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." 

Does JW members take a stand about this (statement from Jesus) according to Bible or they need to reconsider rules about this matter? 

JW scientists are busy at this very moment inventing a machine that can read minds so as to solve this problem.

On 10/24/2017 at 11:49 PM, Witness said:

I cannot advocate the website listed at the end of this short video, as I haven’t gone there. 

Usually before I spotlight a video for proof of my point, I go there to see that it really does that.

On 10/24/2017 at 11:49 PM, Witness said:

What is important about this video, is hearing how 1975 was truly proclaimed from the source;

Should you not add: "It is so important that I didn't go there?"

28 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

We are just humans, and we all have our good and bad. And must be able, have courage to say it.

Be careful in high-fiving @Witness is my caution to you. She tirelessly presents herself here as Jehovah's true annointed - which would make her your new boss.

Isn't that the 'Who' song?  Meet the new boss - Worse than the old boss!

31 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But when his car was "trapped" in the parking lot because the ramp was down, he sent me an SMS message and asked me to help him get out. :)) Hypocrisy or not?

Outrageous disgusting blatant hypocrisy!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for calling our attention to this!

52 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

As it is written in Bible, we have this: 

1)God made execution or some kind of punishment for ignoring/disobeying Divine Law

2)Religious people made execution or some kind of punishment for ignoring/disobeying Divine Law

3)Secular authorities made execution or some kind of punishment for ignoring/disobeying Divine Law principles that are incorporated in Secular Law

Do you think there should be more capital punishment, then? If so, why is there not?

28 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

1 Samuel 14:31-35New International Version (NIV)

³¹ That day, after the Israelites had struck down the Philistines from Mikmash to Aijalon, they were exhausted. ³² They pounced on the plunder and, taking sheep, cattle and calves, they butchered them on the ground and ate them, together with the blood. ³³ Then someone said to Saul, “Look, the men are sinning against the Lord by eating meat that has blood in it.”

:)))))) and going to toilet for small or big need is also natural.....

 

So what does this mean? Is it JW you claim to have seen through? Or is it the Bible?

22 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Divine Law is above our philosophizing

This is unclear.

22 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

None of us, mostly nobody, has any difficulty understanding the basic moral provisions that are the content in Divine Law.

Do you think there should be any consequences for ignoring Divine Law, as there is for ignoring human Secular Law?

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

Those who can’t understand how a bad apple can decompose good apples in a barrel

This sounds like an example of 'natural' law to me.

6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Many people produce "clickbait" for money ( they may get 1/2 cent per "click" , but with 50.000 clicks that adds up . In this theoretical example ....  TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS.  

Give credit where credit is due. This is the most concise summary of clickbait I have come across.

51 minutes ago, Bible Speaks said:

The Office of the Prosecutor presented official apologies to Sergiev Posad's Elders

I read somewhere but cannot find again that the same woman who was relied upon for expert testimony was, after this case, disciplined for providing false expert testimony. Bible Speaks, do you know where that was written?

On 11/6/2017 at 1:59 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

Is it possible to separate so called "religious, doctrinal interpretations of Bible text" with "rules and instructions made by JW Clergy, Priesthood" vs Natural Law vs Secular Law?  

"At any rate, it is a game I do not feel able to play," I said. I will play this one, though, with regard to your statement about law:

If you are a former Witness, you were once concerned about Divine Law. You have listed Natural Law and Secular Law. Where is Divine law in your discussion? Granted, you have come to think the Witnesses did not capture it, but where is it? Why do you not search for it, mention it, or lament its disappearance? 

Might it might simply be a matter of putting God in last place? You are big on 'Natural' requirements. You are big on secular requirements. But when it comes to God's requirements - blow it off! It is just "doctrinal interpretations of Bible text." - who can say what it means? - do whatever you want,' notwithstanding that it makes for one hash of a world.