TrueTomHarley

I was away and my brother took my stamp collection! He just took it, transferring my stamps into his album. I had to take them back. This is the same brother that smashed out the headlights of my Volkswagen Karmann Ghia. I had just pulled into the family driveway, parking right behind our station wagon. As I pulled the car keys from the ignition, I saw the backups lights ahead come on and the wagon shot into me like a North Korean missile launch. This is the same Karmann Ghia that I drove in service as a pioneer and nearly froze solid because there was absolutely no heat in the car, which was typical of all VWs then. So I wondered if I could somehow rig up a kerosene heater inside. But when I tried to fire it up (outside the car) it shot out a foot-long flame. It looked as though I was sacrificing to the gods. No wonder people think we are nuts. These are the same nuts that Davey the Kid thought he might be able to help when he became a shrink. "Poor Davey," I would lament. "He always thought half of us were nuts. Now that he's a shrink, he finds that even the half he thought were sane - they're nuts, too. This is the same Davey the Kid whose story is told in the afterword of 'Tom Irregardless and Me.' This is also the same Karrmann Ghia, or one just like it, that was used as the model car for the video on creation that we all saw at the mid-week meeting.

I was away and my brother took my stamp collection! He just took it, transferring my stamps into his album. I had to take them back. This is the same brother that smashed out the headlights of my Volkswagen Karmann Ghia. I had just pulled into the family driveway, parking right behind our station wagon. As I pulled the car keys from the ignition, I saw the backups lights ahead come on and the wagon shot into me like a North Korean missile launch. This is the same Karmann Ghia that I drove in service as a pioneer and nearly froze solid because there was absolutely no heat in the car, which was typical of all VWs then. So I wondered if I could somehow rig up a kerosene heater inside. But when I tried to fire it up (outside the car) it shot out a foot-long flame. It looked as though I was sacrificing to the gods. No wonder people think we are nuts. These are the same nuts that Davey the Kid thought he might be able to help when he became a shrink. "Poor Davey," I would lament. "He always thought half of us were nuts. Now that he's a shrink, he finds that even the half he thought were sane - they're nuts, too. This is the same Davey the Kid whose story is told in the afterword of 'Tom Irregardless and Me.' This is also the same Karrmann Ghia, or one just like it, that was used as the model car for the video on creation that we all saw at the mid-week meeting.

It all lies in what you choose to spotlight. CMP quotes the WT article counseling human kindness towards persons, even though disfellowshipped. What you choose to spotlight says something about your motive, for in the final analysis, who else is doing the 880 languages to help the spiritually deprived ones? Nobody else gives two hoots about them? If they did, they would translate their concern into action. Why go to all the considerable effort to reach the people of the 880 languages? If the GB does that, what's in it for them? Please don't say they get off on lording it over aborigines or they hope to make a buck off them. I can see what is in print, what CMP spotlighted. It is counsel not just to the congregation members, but also to persons who are themselves in position of leadership. It is counsel that would not be given were there not ones inclined to be unkind and unreasonable. As to anecdotal reports, if I skim over them, it is not because I am sure they are lies. On the contrary, it is because I believe them already - in outline. I also accept that there has been skewing, not necessarily with evil intent, so that they, the storyteller, looks good and others look bad, because I know how people are. Sometimes you get hints as to how great that skewing will be. If JTR conducted himself as bombastically in person as he does online, the elders were probably on him repeatedly. They might have counseled him about something quite serious and a cell phone was mentioned in passing or as an example, and he chooses to remember getting chewed out over a cell phone. His comments I tend to blow off because he is so belligerent online. But others are not that way. I tend to think their stories are true in their kernel - who can say what exaggeration has occurred? - for we do have some harsh ones (necessitating the written counsel CMP quoted) and even some who are 'divorced from reality' - or is that one me? Hopefully these ones who have experienced or witnessed real injustice will return to the fold (if they ever left) where they can be a good influence, rather than grumbling on the outside, where they cannot. Of course, if they accomplish something on the outside, if they even translate into 500 languages, then I will join them. But if they do nothing but grouse about the past, where I have no way of knowing what details are true, false, skewed or hidden, then it's fair to say they don't accomplish any good. Congregations of Revelation chapters veritable 2 and 3 were basket cases, some of them, but that does not change the fact that they were congregations. I usually wash my soiled underwear thoroughly before I put it on the line for all to see. However, there are others who can't wait to put theirs out there. i think it tells to their motive. Someone said somewhere that it is impossible to tell online who is an apostate. I think it's the most obvious thing in the world. Some come in with cannons and they are obvious from their first word. Others come in more slyly, and they may simply be indiscreet brothers - their identities take a few posts to become apparent.

When a full-of-himself instructor does not get his point across adequately the first time, he DEMANDS his students go back and reread his tirade. He assumes that right. He doesn't seem to realize he must merit it. No. He possibly is not an apostate but he so closely resembles one that it is impossible to tell the difference.As for "if you ask him, he might divulge," I could tell you I have a summer home on Jupiter. How would you know otherwise?

That almost sounds like an ad hominem attack. Do you want me to explain what that term means, as you did for my benefit? I wish you well on your recovery from your operation.

When you choose to answer JTR's ravings, which is not necessarily a wise thing to do, do not strive primarily to answer his question or comment. Strive to answer his motive. And yet, even at this late date it is not too late for him to straighten out and fly right, for I am not his enemy. Well – I guess I am so long as he carries on the way he does, saying slanderous things one moment and then trying to ingratiate himself the next with a thoroughly innocuous remark. You don’t pay attention to the latter. The former indicates he is a skunk. But maybe he will turn around. Unlikely, but not impossible. If he turned around, I would not believe it online, but I don’t have to believe it. Like any of Jehovah’s Witnesses, there is a congregation somewhere of real flesh and blood people who will know him better than any online community will. They are all liars on the internet. Everyone here is a liar, as am I. You extend them trust only very slowly, and that trust can be withdrawn in a heartbeat. The internet is not the congregation. There is no network of live friends in which to gauge new participants. There are no elders. There is no channel for dispensing spiritual food. For the most part, spiritual food discussed here is stale or recalled spiritual food. So if you’re going to sidestep the organization’s advice to hang out just with whom you personally know – which I do sidestep it – at a bare minimum you must assume from the outset that everyone else is a liar. That drop-dead gorgeous woman that so urgently wants to friend me? How do I know it is her? It could be Russia, it could be China, it could be some 400 pound guy in New Jersey. But if he stomped off in a huff once, probably he had reason. I don’t want to hear what it is, for I am just another liar. There are real flesh and blood people somewhere he talk to. He can even fool them to a degree, but it is much more difficult than it is online. I am not blind to the faults of God’s visible organization. It has caused me trouble at times. I focus on the good points of the organization, for it is the only game in town. It’s accomplishments in carrying out God’s will are unsurpassed. Congregations in Revelation chapters 2 and 3 were basket cases, some of them, but that does not mean they were not congregations. It is necessary to allow oneself to be readjusted, which is not easy to do.

JTR demands we do our homework before presuming upon his time with our uninformed reply, even underlining his demand. Clearly the man revels in the role of teacher. He does, however, not do any homework himself. Why bother, when he is right? Twice he has been asked to comment on the organization's own video that goes far in answering points he has raised. Twice he has ignored that request. Let us concede, for purposes of argument (we can always take it back) that the NWT translations would benefit from more time, money, and education. There are many persons outside our organization who have these. JTR has the qualities in spades. Why has he not stepped up to the plate instead of bitching at those who have? Is there not such a thing as pro bono work? When the brilliant lawyer offers to take your case pro bono, do you turn him down on that account? By their absence of anything other than perhaps 30 translations, other organizations show that they don't give a hoot about persons speaking the other 850. There's no excuse for them not to do the other 850. But if they ever get around to it, the selfish education-for-pay model in which they operate would price those translations out of the reach of the persons they are supposedly for. Why does not JTR rail about his own people not attempting the 850? He rails about everything else. One can only conclude that he loves it the way it is, and could care less about the lowly ones our organization works so diligently to serve. The other day my house burned to the ground, destroying a lifetime of possessions. The volunteer firemen arrived within minutes of the fire, but I waved them away. How could their free efforts do any good? How could they possibly be as highly trained as their paid brethren? Eventually, the highly specialized and properly trained paid firemen got there and expertly put out the flames that the volunteers probably would have done in the wrong way. I managed to salvage a kitchen chair, on which I am sitting to write this reply.

If JTR is a little bit as yourself, the operative words are 'a little.' Don't assume that everyone here will respond to encouragement to 'wait on Jehovah.' Some left him behind long ago. Yes, they do like rules here, same as everywhere. It is how people are. It is unavoidable It is not unavoidable to JTR because he thinks our organization ought to be modeled on the Declaration of Independence as much, or more so , than the Bible. But it is unavoidable to people who have been trained with Bible education. The GB does not intentionally issue rules. They do not claim to be 'masters of your faith.' (2 Corinthians 1:24) They do, however, claim to be molders of your faith, supplying abundant counsel to train our consciences and thinking ability. Do they make mistakes? Probably. They follow the same pattern as the first century governing ones who also made mistakes. But it is not for me (who has neither the complete picture, nor the assignment) to tell them what those mistakes are. (as if I knew) With regard to rules, it sometimes comes down to the 'white shirt' situation, in print somewhere. A certain congregation kept a collection of white shirts available, lest a visiting speaker show up with a colored one. One such speaker donned his 'required' white shirt, but then wrote Bethel about it. 'It would be nice if you brothers would grow up,' Bethel told that body of elders. It is an imperfect organization and everyone must take it on the chin from time to time. Sometimes the loss of privileges is taking it on the chin. There are ones who refuse to do that because they are RIGHT!! - R - I - G - H - T!!! These ones head off in their own direction, though they do not necessarily leave this forum. CMP struggles valiantly to discuss weighty matters in a language not his, and his remarks are all the more eloquent for it. The few times he errs in grammar, it is testimony to his humility, for a proud person will never take the risk that his RIGHTNESS may be obscured through grammatical mistakes.

I believe he is saying we don't have them, hence, there is no way our translating can be any good.

This is strong counsel we are speaking of from a source we all respect and accept as part of Jehovah’s teaching – we’re foolish to blow it off. But it is not rules. Detailed scenarios are described because we’re being helped to develop our conscience and use our thinking ability. Every Christian in this truly horrible situation must decide how they will conduct themselves. Surely, no two situations are exactly alike. If they are hard and fast rules, then you get into all the absurd situations, and more, that CMP describes. Every Christian must apply these sometimes contradictory thoughts as best they can. Keep it to yourself if you know what you do will get some people going. Don’t advertise. Make the onlookers few. Accept that it is possible to lose some privileges if your stand doesn’t square with what others think is right. If that happens, don’t bitch about it. Take that, too, as discipline. “Maybe I should do it differently,” say to yourself. But if the answer, upon prayerful thought, is no, then suck it up and carry on. Don’t go saying the elders are wrong. Just suck it up.

In the non-Witness world, there are brilliant people, smarter than us. When their efforts can accumulate, they go to the moon. They do open heart surgery. But there are many inefficiencies. Every participant has accumulated tens of thousands of dollars of university debt (sometimes more) along the way. Even so, through circumstances or personal weaknesses, many have stumbled over the hurdles and are now working at MacDonalds to pay off their college debt. The successors from the university system pass their knowledge along, but only for a significant fee. They thus price their knowledge out of the reach of most humans. It is not their fault. They are often fine persons. It is the fault of the selfish model where they make their home. In contrast, one expert in Jehovah’s organization can do what fifty cannot in the outside world. Free from petty competitiveness and jealousy, they give their knowledge away. They are thus ‘bringing their gift to the altar.’ The GB generally has no specialized knowledge in anything, but they know where to find it when they need it and they coordinate it. They put the teachers in touch with those who will benefit from it. It is in this way that such astounding feats as the 880 languages are accomplished. The educated world has long assumed that only they are capable of doing anything smart. They are dismayed to find persons they look down upon have outstripped them at some things. Those who are noble strive to get their heads around it and examine how it happened. The ones not noble stand on their favorite paradigm and ridicule the accomplishment that they did not produce.

@Maron should realize that some here are JWs being serious. Some are JWs making jokes. Some are non-JWs heaping ridicule. This is not the congregation where you personally know people

Dr. Woo, from another post, has learned some very big words since he left his cult, and he imagines that he alone knows what they mean.

“But as for you, come closer,You sons of a sorceress,You children of an adulterer and a prostitute: Whom are you making fun of?Against whom do you open your mouth wide and stick out your tongue?Are you not the children of transgression,The children of deceit, - Isaiah 57:3-4

He is one of those morons protesting a Regional Convention, where thousands pass within feet of him, and it is rare for anyone to exchange a word.

That final sentence of mine was actually a question, not a - whatever you called it Nonetheless, that was indeed a devastating put-down. I'm done.

Dr. William Woo, Professor Exaltus at Bulldog U, recently wowed the academic world with an astounding breakthrough in the highly specialized field of linguistical translagistics. His findings are to be published in the April issue of Wonderful Scientist Magazine and he is very excited, for he will get to rub shoulders with persons almost as brilliant as he. For years experts have scratched their collective heads at reports that, in a bi-lingual household, children become expert in both languages and in a tri-lingual household, all three. This clearly makes no sense. Lingual inter-fluency is an extraordinary complex skill. Good tools are critically important ... but the MOST important tools are highly qualified, trained, experienced, intelligent, and creative highly motivated, extremely competent "Renaissance Babies" who have the analytical skills of Sherlock Holmes. Dr. Woo’s hypothesis was that bi-lingual families have been clandestinely sending their infants to Harvard for eight years. He tested this hypothesis by telling Harvard not to accept them for a while. Sure enough, when he went back to check on his test families, the children were grunting like cavemen. Even the adults had regressed. Dr. Woo has traveled an unconventional path in his rise to stellar brilliance. For many years, he belonged to an oppressive religious cult where he and three others were the only smart ones. All the rest were morons. Oh, there was a fellow named Fred from long ago. But there has been no one since. There are some there who would like to think with their heads, but the cult leaders make them read endless material produced at a grade level far below anything Dr. Woo would ever be caught dead with. His former friends all hang out at various headquarters around the globe, where they can’t even figure out how to procreate, for that, too, requires a high level of special expertise which cannot be had without years at the university. Finally, Dr. Woo could stand it no more at the cult and he left. But – strangely, he didn’t leave. He spends all his spare time – possibly all his time – stalking his former chums and digging up slander on what used to be his most cherished cause. He will comment on some of his ex-friends posts, and if they reply, he will not seriously address their answer. He will just continue with more bitching. He doesn’t necessarily realize that his former chums will read the first paragraph of his endless comment, in huge font and bold print, see that no serious reply has been attempted, and skip all the rest, since they know a blowhard when they see one. I mean, he kind of comes across as a loser. You would think that, having decided to move on in life, he would do just that, instead of harassing his old chums like a crazed ex-wife who just can’t let go.

I'm not sure about Andrew Lett, but there was a scoundrel somewhere named Bobby Dontlett who went apostate.

Put your things away when you are done with them! Someone could trip. My mother told me this countless times. Why didn’t @AAFO4ever’s mother tell him the same? He landed his plane on the runway. Well, okay. Then he put it on the taxiway. Well, I can’t fault him for that. But then he just LEFT IT THERE! Harrison Ford could have been killed! He tried to land on the taxiway and almost hit the plane that stupid @AAFO4ever hadn’t put away! Now do you see why putting your things away is so important, @AAFO4ever? Look, we must all act together to protect our celebrity national treasures, because when they are gone they are gone. “A scary moment for Harrison Ford, CBSThisMorning said. They didn’t mention you or your 130 passengers. Who cares about them? Passengers can be replaced, @AAFO4ever, as can you. Boeing can even build you another airplane, but if our celebrities die – well, I don’t know what to say. Every day I rail at people who should know better to put their things away! I talk until I’m blue in the face! I don’t know what more I can do. ************************ Tom Irregardless and Me No Fake News but Plenty of Hogwash

I DID NOT KNOW THAT!!!!!!!!

If all the highly specialized and wonderfully cooperative and phenomenally briliant people that you so admire and imagine you're one of succeeded in going to the moon, they should have stayed there. I notice you made no reference to the translation resources on JWBroadcasting that I pointed to that would have furthered any discussion. Since you plainly loathe everything JW, why are you here? Tom

Will the day come, or has it already arrived, when the number of lives saved through bloodless medicine will exceed those lost by fearless members of a relatively tiny religion who refused to compromise in matters relating to God's law?

If a person passes through a meat grinder and thereafter declines a transfusion, media will report fanatical opposition to a life-saving (is there any other kind?) blood transfusion as the cause of death.

The thousands of highly specialized and talented people you keep referring to are all outside, where their combined efforts don't amount to squat because they don't know how to cooperate. Cooperation, love, humility, coupled with reasonable intelligence, will trump your qualities every time. Remember: the organization has 8,000,000 people to draw on. Just because they don't strut around and boast of their talent and highly specialized knowledge doesn't mean they don't exist. When the organization needs someone with truly stellar ability, they just reach into the ranks and get one. Or train one. Our people are generous with their knowledge. They don't hoard it. Peruse JWBroadcasting and you will learn of schools to circumvent the translation problems you speak of. You will find it if you search. Frankly, given the JW track record and accomplishments, outside translators should come to us for pointers, not the reverse. Where did they get the THOUSANDS of highly specialized and talented people to do all this?

We're all a bunch of screwballs but somehow Jehovah makes it all work. Or, as someone said, 'it's amazing what Jehovah does with what he's got to work with. But Melinda Mills is not a screwball because she could have taken offense when I chose a wrong word and did not.