Srecko Sostar

Since the visible agency that would be used by Christ is the faithful and discreet slave (and the facts of modern-day history already considered show that this “slave” employs the Watch Tower Society as a legal instrument), The Watchtower explained that theocratic procedure would require that appointments of service be made through this agency. Even as the congregations in the first century recognized the governing body in Jerusalem, so today the congregations would not prosper spiritually without central supervision.—Acts 15:2-30; 16:4, 5. - Jehovah’s Witnesses—Proclaimers of God’s Kingdom p. 219 19 These older men meet the requirements that are set out in God’s Word, which is a product of God’s spirit. (1 Timothy 3:1-7; Titus 1:5-9) Hence, their appointment can be said to be by holy spirit. (Acts 20:28) W 02/8/1 p. 13,14 We are free to make reasonable conclusion how human factor stay behind "hierarchical structure" inside JW Organization, and how Men who have influence making important decisions for Elders structure or Doctrinal Issues. Holy spirit, who supposedly work for WT Society and JWorg, is just sort of fictional idea, hope how things should be and personal trust in possibility. Names/Titles for Clergy Class in Catholic church or in JWorg and differences in wording is of less importance if System is almost the same or similar, and that is: Men appointing men.

Perhaps requirements are good, as it is described in Scriptures. But, people who put other people on position of elders are not inspired, as they already claimed few times in publications. And because they are not inspired , their capacity to connect this two elements - candidate for elder and "inspired requirements" described in Bible - are in sphere of human, earthly insight. Well, all this try/manipulation to make elders to look as "appointed by HS" (in the previous time WT Society, GB, or today by Circuit Overseer making final decision about appointing) is based on personal interpretation and impression of CO about candidate and on instructions made by Organization that CO have to take as guidance. To be appointed by HS - vs - It can be said their appointment to be by HS, are two different issue. In Human Organization with Hierarchical structure (similar to Catholic Church) no one can be sure who's appointment is made by whom.

@JW Insider This two days Billy is so busy with down votes of my posts too.

This is interesting and good to read from link you provide: Part of what qualifies a minor to be recognized as legally “mature” (able to make adult decisions independently from her parents and from the government) is her ability to think through difficult issues and deal maturely with opposing viewpoints. In cases involving teenage Jehovah’s Witnesses who refuse life-saving blood transfusions, one of the things considered by courts, when assessing whether the minor is legally “mature” and able to make this decision on her own, is her capacity to hear and consider differing viewpoints. If a child is already dealing with significant emotional and mental stress that impedes her ability to rationalize and consider competing medical opinions, she will not be able to handle differing advice (for example, doctors urging her to accept a blood transfusion while religious leaders urge her to refuse this) and cannot therefore be deemed legally “mature.” Justice Bowden’s Order prohibits the father from trying to persuade his female-born child to refrain from experimental and irreversible testosterone treatments. This assumes that the child is not sufficiently mature to handle differing opinions and to think through the pros and cons of different options. If true, this means the child is not a mature minor. If the child is not a mature minor, the child cannot decide on serious and irreversible medical treatments; it’s up to the parents. Yet the lower court views the child as mature enough to decide on experimental medical treatments, but not mature enough to deal with the father’s objections. Here i see parallel with WT Society Order about prohibition to going on "apostate" sites or on any other "worldly" material that can "shake" JW member faith and believe. To see or read or hear anything that Oppose to Official WT Doctrines and Instructions. According to view presented in article, JW members looks like "immature minors" who are not able to defend their position without WT Society and JWorg Spiritual Interventions and Theocratic Court Orders. aka GB Orders. About Judge and Court in general in this case about changing sex. This is just prove how "worldly" Courts "are not inspired and can err." :)))

If person XY has done something wrong because person QW said him what and how to do it, (in reality what XY has done after QW advised him), than QW has obligation to take some blame. QW have to take responsibility and quit from his position, because he caused damage. QW will be doing good if he found some less responsible job, cleaning windows for example. For QW it would be good to ask for second opinion, and not to take XY advice as "God-given".

?? :))))))))) Main question is: Do WT Society and JW Organization have clergy class? When informing public through own publications, WT Society and JWorg say: We have no clergy-laity distinction, we have no paid clergy ....etc. But WT Lawyers say: We have clergy and we want to have rights as Clergy in all other Churches (namely Roman Catholic Church) ! J.W. filed a motion to compel further responses to a request for the production of documents. J.W. asserted she requested Watchtower produce various documents, and Watchtower refused citing the clergy-penitent privilege. On May 9, 2014, the trial court, specifically Commissioner Gregory, held a hearing on Watchtower’s motion to set aside the February 11 order. The trial court said Watchtower asserted clergy-penitent privilege in opposition to the motion to compel as it concerned RFP 66. When Judge Peterson began the February 11 hearing, he said in regard to all of Watchtower’s objections to all of the requests for production, “[Watchtower] object on the following grounds: Number one, penitent/clergy privilege, attorney/client privilege, attorney work product, privacy, and in several instances, the time period which would cover the documents sought to be received.” source: https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/19/19-40/104104/20190625174601258_288149_Petition.pdf , pages 54, 60, 83

Please, tell me what is difference when WT Society indirectly claim clergy status for Elders ?? Automatically given by each State?? Some explanation would be interesting to hear. IF it is automatically given, why WT and JWorg automatically accepting that?? Why they not make Legal Complain and "Fight in Courts" for neutrality and autonomy in that issue? :)) :))) Croatia is not communist country. Croatia is in NATO and in deep process of accepting all and every capitalistic idiocy.

Thanks for very good reminder about FACTS.

I think how @Foreigner is robot... most of the time. He/she is in down vote crusade, again :))))

.... or can it be other people read those works and combined it with the Watchtower to have asked a witness about it, .... Do you suggest by this how non-JW people are so interested to know what JW's have to say about some subject on world events - in particular, about 1975 - ? I think that you can count on fingers of one hand, it is so small number of non-JW who would, who was talking about 1975 in religious manner, in that period of time when WT Society publication put effort to emphasized 1975 as very important year to humankind in connection to Bible prophesies about Last days, Armageddon, Salvation, Kingdom. I think that 1975 has been of Important interest, in JW Unique Way of Bible Doctrines, only to JW members inside JW Organization. Because they have read about 1975 in own publications, of course, and not in Washington Post or in National Geographic, for example. But, because we been presented here how also other non-JW people were speaking about 1975, from their standpoints, it is possible to conclude how JW's has been trustful only to WT Society Spiritual Leaders and not to some other religious or secular sources. By that what we know how JW members are warned to be very careful about any other sources of information, it can be say how JW's in period before 1975 have been very obedient and listen only that what WT Society said about 1975.

I am not sure about this idea. If 3 elements run world (religion, politic and money) they need each other, if not for anything else but for exactly this - to run the world, to govern the world. East Europe communism try to live without religion for decades, but religion lived on "lower" level and survived. Elements will stay, only some individuals inside them, will be changed (bring down or up), because in interactions inside group of who have or want to have, more power and money. If you mean, partially, and on WT Society too, you need to have in mind that WT and JW have The Best of All Legislative - Bible, as they claim. But despite this "FACT", this same Organization show same or similar "weakness" as any other secular or religious organization !! In that sense, no new "proper legislative" made by governments will not Upgrade and make Better WT-JW Internal Legislative. How not? Because, WT Lawyers call for US Amendment on free religion practice and doctrines. By that, US Courts (and perhaps European too) are not place to discuss about religious and doctrinal aka spiritual handling about "sins" that elders doing in child abuse cases. Retroactively be held - maybe is not possible through the Secular Laws, but for True Believers, IT IS possible, because despite the fact how God is ready to forgive, but in the same time, He have to give Justice to Victim and make that wrongdoer pay for bad deed. That is His law from the old time that work until today.

Google Translation: According to the woman, during a meeting with two of the elders in the congregation, she was informed that she would be excluded because of fornication. She thinks the reaction came after she said she had been sexually abused by a person outside the church. Article not say that she told: Repeatedly abused. Next what i would ask: Why she went to elders and told them about abuse? Perhaps because elders are "Shepherds" who will help? Did she went to police too?

Here, after this two quotes you bring, i have to ask: Did rank and file JW members of those period have read also Non-WT publications about 1975? When you say: "I had several friends ask me...", well, you mean on your JW friends or Non-JW friends? Also, Betel Bible scholars have custom to read "worldly" publications on various topics, and it would be no surprise how some of influence and ideas were copied or/and modified and presented as "Bible Light" to JW's. Apostates and ex-witnesses (generally is the same group to WT Society), according to your presentation, are in fact JW members from 1975 period who became "apostates and ex-witnesses" because they are reading works of Non-JW authors of books???? :)))) Yes, WT dfd many who was confused and questioned religious doctrines and ideas about 1975. THAT IS considerably different from others. :))

Ohh, do not worry, this is just for public fun and entertainment. :)))

This came to my stupid head while reading again about terminology: "6000 years of human creation". This is very close to wording - Birthday. Birth of Adam and Eve. In that "day" 4026 BCE Adam was "Born". Timeline “In the beginning . . .” 4026 B.C.E. Adam’s creation - source: https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102009479 Well, it seems to me how WT Society was "involved" in sort of "celebration for Adam Birthday". Why to bring so much attention on Adam Birthday. This is pagan custom. Even to mention when your birthday is/was (only for administrative reasons) may be to understand as promoting idolatry :)))))))

First time hear about this . How that works, please?

This are beautiful attributes of personality. Soooo .... it is not important do you (or anyone else) in JWorg or not ?

@BillyTheKid46I found this on internet: It seems how Structures in WT are well educated in talking about end of the world. :))

1) I don't think how WT is only who believe in 6000 years of human existence. 2) It is personal decision on what individual find reasonable to believe. 3) I don't think how any Structure (Institution, Organization, Religion, Company, Corporation) receiving HS. Only thing to believe as possible is, how person as individual, or as group of people are in position to receive HS.

Do you suggest, how WT can calculate and predict future events because of "prophetic cycles" ?

Read more carefully what i wrote, please. I didn't connect "6000 years cycle" with cyclical events of any sort. Science can tell us more about "cycles" in nature, on Earth or in Space.

Do you want to say how i am mentally unstable, too ? :)) ... so, listed name of people are not the Only Ones? :)) According to Science and Experts on various fields on Human, cells of every organism changed everyday. Changing are at various cycles, from every day (or shorter) to every few years. Looking on your question in that way, Human Not Stayed the Same, all has been Changed. But nature of people Stayed as before, there was good and bad as before. Also, Events you mentioned are Cyclical. So, that Stayed as was Before too. Quantity of Events? I don't know. Written History is too short to provide us information, and Humankind have no Statistic about all Events of any Sort (for example people have no records about how much rain failed before 756 years in land now called North Texas?). Deteriorated? If you ask, such question, people who are in food shortage, conditions are bad. If you ask the same, people whose ancestors were slaves to their masters, perhaps it is better now.

intellectual gymnastic :))

One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man’s existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) I the same time teaching was: This "generation" (of 1914) will not pass away - but Kingdom will rule Over the Earth instead satan's worldly system. Well, we can ask now: About what "generation" Jesus speaking? And more important - about what "generation" WT Society speaking? 1) About "generation" who will see end of 6000 years of humankind? 2) Or about "generation" who will see the end of wicked system and establishing of Kingdom rule as New Government on Earth? Revision of history? Or almost all JW of those period misunderstand "generation" issue. Do we have "overlapping generations"? One generation who saw 1914 events who overlap with generation who saw end of 6000 years of human history ? .......and again overlap with ...................... with overlapping generation of today? :))

Ohh, sorry then. I thought how "insightful expertise" and source of wisdom for leading Organization was "empowered" by holy spirit :)) When you say "public" you specifically mean on JW Community ? Because "this public" was the first who had needed to be convinced and believed in 1975 end, and then with such zealous faith to present the message of end to another "public" aka worldly people. Secular experts believe in the same stuff today too. JW members believe in the same stuff today too. I can do compare because i was stayed alive until 1975 ... and until 2019. Generation of 1914 can not compare nothing, i guess.