Srecko Sostar

- He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives Here i see how Organizational success in: Preaching work, Legal Battles, Worldwide Unity, Building Programs, Technology helped Education ...etc, .... and hard work to be Moral in all things, can be also "weapon" that serve the lie. Not one time, even WT Society publication emphasized, how it is not enough for individual, or whole groups of people, to be nice and honest, moral people, not to lie, steal, kill, etc., or to even have faith in God, but how is most important to worship Him in acceptable way. ... they refused to love the truth and so be saved. This is very intrigue. How is possible that people, like JW members, refusing to love the truth, when they are so sure how they Have The Truth. They have the truth? This can go to philosophy and some metaphysics. Is it "Truth" some thing that we can to "posses"? Obviously it is inside WT Society. They can "materialize" some supposed "truth" into textual shape of some publication (books or/and magazines). If you get this publication and accept message, than you are in "possesion" of the so called truth. And after some time this "truth" can be replaced with another "truth"( in same manner you replacing old curtain with new one on your window). In means how so called "first truth" came to be "thing" that can be physically put aside or even destroyed. That is how "ownership" is working. Because this sort of "the truth" has not came from God, but it is human Product. If some individual is Creator of something (like "truth" in this case) he is entitled to "posses" it, to sell it, to destroy it. Here we see difference about who is ownership of something. Human can not "posses" God's Truth. Human can only "posses" own truth and playing with it as they wish. Well, we came now to this part of 2 Thess: For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie . What more you need to be on wrong way, than powerful delusion (send by no one else but that God who you, or JW in this subject, want to worship) This is something to get strong headache. You put your trust in God who sends powerful delusion on you because you are wrongly made conclude how you love the truth, but on contrary, you love your own created picture of image of truth. Is there any hope? :))

That is nice and praiseworthy . But, i guess how you would not make Religious Doctrine about your sense of hospitality.

That part is clear to me. What is not the same/similar in this illustration, if we go to compare golf club member and JW member? I suppose that golf club member will say "Hello" to ex-golf club member on the street or will go to coffee together. :)) You all know the fact how I am ex-JW member. But many JW members on this forum (and some in my home town) communicate with me despite "official shunning rule". Perhaps to many of you it is easier to have virtual contacts with ex-JW's, and maybe giving you some feeling of "proper distance" because of this sort of communication or because we didn't have personal previous contacts as JW members. Or, you looking in different way on some JW who was dfd for adultery in comparison to some who left congregation by own will because of doctrinal disagreements, etc. Well, when golf club (or school) expelled member (or pupil) from institution, they can feel some sort of animosity or disappointment or even angry on him, but majority of them will not treat him as JW's doing with theirs ex-members.

Perhaps you are medical expert, or working in that sector, but i think how fact that someone is ex-JW can't be connected with OCD. In my understanding, this mental state (OCD) does not come as consequence, result of belonging to some particular group. On other side, belonging to some particular group can result that individual in that group is under power of manipulation and deception ...to believe in false, deceiving things.

As you can see, i made accent with word "shun" on custom of JW org. Shunning is usual practice inside JW org. But we are also aware of some practice when JW's ask dfd member to live the house (not area). Various Gradation of "expelling people" because of religious (and other) reasons is visible in many social groups.

Wording with "worldly View" about JW Club like this is not right way to describe what Human doing, whether they are JW members or not. Human interest is to be curios about many things. How is possible that you read this from my comment? I just made accent how need for questioning, asking, and state of confusing about some issues is normal for those that are "inside".

@JW Insider i have read your post from September 23. To me it seems how all is about those who are "inside" :))

Interesting opinions on a subject those who wrote these pieces weren’t that familiar with scripture. I think how we don't need to have high expectations from San Diego Sun reporter to be "familiar" with Scripture. But that is of no surprise, because Judge Rutherford showed lack of "familiarity" with Scripture too, when he made plans to build Beth-Sarim. "He that speaketh evil of his brother, judgeth his brother; speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law" - James 4 I would go a little further with meaning of this verse you used, and not with obvious verbatim understanding about "not judging other people". Wording "The Law" have wider meaning and not just God's command about what is forbidden and what is allowed to do. "The Law" is in fact entire content of Bible in which is reflection of God's thoughts, wisdom, prophets, lessons, His will, past and future. In that context of wider picture about Word He gave in Bible, i would say how misinterpretation made by anyone, or in this example by WT Society, and particularly by 3rd President of WT, "Judge Rutherford", who gave wrong meaning to Bible verses, we see how he has done exactly what you emphasized is bad. Judge Rutherford is that one who "judged the law" with his absolutely false proclamation (if you want, read this as apostate or perhaps demonic inspired revelation) about "Ancient Princes" who will soon be resurrected and come to be his guest in Beth-Sarim. What is the point: 1) he "judged the law" by giving false meaning to words of God. 2) he (and other under his influence) "judged his brothers" who were not accepted his teachings, in that period. Conclusion we can make today is similar. If GB "judging the law" with error, wrong, false interpretations and "judge you" if you are not willing to accept such ideology, than we have clear picture of modern fulfillment on James 4. :))

:))) Tom, The Only One who says you have to obey err is WT Society.

Of course, it is sad and crazy to shun people because they changed their standpoint, perspective on life or religion. But (almost) every social group doing exactly this same thing. Even "the most religiously advanced and spiritual mature group" as JW members are, doing the same thing. :))

Well, according to WT published evidence there are few "not faithful and discreet" reasons for San Diego Beth-Sarim house: 1) Rutherford had a severe case of pneumonia ... 2) Under a doctor’s treatment, he went to San Diego, California, and the doctor urged him to spend as much time as possible there. 3) Rutherford and his companion brothers have had religious fixation (persistent thought) about Kingdom and resurrection of past people based on fiction. 4) Explanation in magazine speaking how house fully served its purpose, but they must sell this too much expensive "monument". We see how "Purpose" of that building has nothing with real spirituality as Jesus presented it, in his life time on Earth. 5) Footnote in WT magazine said: At the time, it was believed ... This is one more prove in lines of proves, how WT Society and people who run this Organization, inventing teachings and doctrines.

https://web.archive.org/web/20060218124721/http://members.cox.net/tzdaniels/pictures/Time_March_31_1930.jpg It is impressive how Russell and Rutherford doing "fine job" and have been fine example of Opposers to established religions of their period of time. Reasoning book calling this two men as restoration leaders, who Reinstated true doctrines and true religion as it was in 1st Century. But, Jesus, as Opposer to Jew Religion established system, never mentioned that it would be needed to build house with olive trees for Ancient Princes in 1929. As curiosity, what would people say when those Ancient Princes would ask for women. Few for each of them? What was the subject, content of Rutherford's effort to restore, with building house for ANCIENT princes? Christianity or Old/New Jew Kingdom? Comfortable San Diego accommodation in 1929 is Type and Modern Warwick is Anti-Type for GB Princes :)) What about 1931 period doctrines and practices? To what sort of "restoration" do they belong? To which period of time do they belong? To 1st Century Christianity time? If they do belong to that period, why they are not stayed as actual beliefs and practice of modern JW? If Modern JW of our time acting as Opposers to practices and beliefs of Restoration in Russell' and Rutherford' time .... than who is True Restorer of 1st century Christianity inside WT Society and JW org? Does this statement is really valid from today's standpoint? "Their beliefs and practices are not new but are a restoration of first-century Christianity." - Reasoning Book quote

Perhaps it would be more "discreet" to not merge automatically this two elements you talking about: moral standards and by law obligated things to do, on one side, with theological subject/term "Truth" or with spiritual aspects in people's life, on other side. How to explain this? Children in kindergarten (of any kind i assume, religious, atheistic) are not thought, by their guardians ladies, to still, to lie, to curse, etc. other children and adult people. They received lessons to be nice, peaceful, honest, sincere, to share things, etc. By this, they shows qualities as every very moral atheist or very moral religious individual. To what "truth" this kindergarten group belongs?! :)) Or any other religious and non religious group in the world that reflects this moral and not only moral but spiritual qualities in the same time?! Because good moral behavior is based on good spiritual foundations. In this aspect, "spiritual" not necessary including how individual must believe in God. Because God's love and all moral and spiritual qualities is genetically incorporated in individual because of miracle act when God created people. That is why atheist people must not "belong to" particular ideology, false or true, to be bad or good. That is why religious people, must not "belong to" particular religion, false or true, to be bad or good. That is why JW members with their good behavior, not proving automatically how because of their belonging to particular Organization their religion is true. They not proving issue - how specific theology and doctrines is truth itself. It would be good to separate things that are not the same. You don't need to be religious to be moral and obey law in the same time.

We have nothing to say about vacuums. Vacuums are nothing. Vacuums are a lack of anything. Vacuums are cold, empty spaces that make up just about all of the space in the universe. Think about it. Imagine how far the Earth is from the Sun. Millions of miles separate the two relatively small objects. Everything between the Earth and Sun is a vacuum. Don't get us wrong, there is stuff there, just stuff that is hard to quantify or detect. Light passes through the vacuum of space. You've got radio waves, gamma rays, X-ray, IR, UV, visible, etc. There is even stuff called dark matter and dark energy. They are all there. But if you could hold your hand out, there would be nothing. source: http://www.cosmos4kids.com/files/universe_vacuum.html If You believe in God's creation of Universe than you will accept "vacuum" as His creation too :)) He would not "abhor" something that he created. Perhaps "vacuum" you talking about is something bad. But that sort of "vacuum" is Product of WT Society.

I think your experience, impression about @Witness is exaggerated, to be mildly said. :))

Did Jesus regularly visiting Temple and Synagogues, led by Jew Priesthood, and humbly obey lessons given by Priesthood? If He didn't, than we can rightly speaking about that how He rejected Temple and all what Temple representing to Jew people. He expected from people to follow Him, and not Temple and Priesthood in Temple. By that He also showed how He rejecting Temple.

It mustn't be if you change the angle of view :)) But that is not on me to help you. All i can do is to make you think with the words ... even silly one.

Sorry, but when somebody doing buys and sells (real estates, shares and holdings ...etc) than that it is a business. No one of us, and no one of JW member, and no one of GB member are not want to live as Jesus was. Jesus himself gave this advice, instruction: - Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.” -Mat 19 Well, here He said, sell, give to the poor. Does WT Society poor? Do GB members poor? If they are not, than why members give donations to Organization, Corporation? According to Jesus' words individual is responsible for finding this "poor" and give personal help. If you want to "organize" help, do it. :)) Jesus didn't give idea how followers have to collect and donate money to Him or to Apostles, for their accommodation, food, clothes, transportation, dentist, solar energy and green roofs ... or for their Preaching Activity. I am sure how there is many "poor" JW witnesses in the world. They need to receive help, not WT Corporations. You know story of average ideology. You eat meat, i eat greens .... in average WE are eating cabbage rolls :))))

Money and Place for worship. What is connection in this two opposite things? What was purpose for money boxes in Jerusalem Temple? What is origin and purpose of "treasury" from Jew ancient times to Jerusalem in Jesus' time? Before money (coins and later paper) came to be meaning for pay, people giving material things as animals, gold, grain, wine, oil and similar valuable things as Offering to God (for house of JHVH - "All the silver and gold and the articles of bronze and iron are sacred to the LORD and must go into his treasury.” "Then they burned the whole city and everything in it, but they put the silver and gold and the articles of bronze and iron into the treasury of the LORD’s house.- Joshua 6. And as support or payment for priests. Also as support for God's wars in Israel nation. For building and repairing house for God and also for house for King. For the maintenance of the temple and its ministry. What is purpose of money box that was in possession of Jesus and The 12? For Temple, for some Building where they gathered together? For ministry service, preaching service ....? Who came to idea to carry money box and collecting money and for what purpose? It is something about "the poor" in John 12, but comment made by writer explaining how Judas was thief, in fact. Who are "thief" today in WT Society and in JW org? Who holds, carry "money box" in Organization and for what reason? :)) We must understand something. Where is Money, there is chaos and mess. Money corrupts people.

Very new aspect for me too. By this i would say how WT Society and JW org application about Matt 24 and many events or "signs" that people can see in very visible and factual way have another meaning. Because, Announcing how The year 1914 and The Kingdom as Heavenly Invisible Fact with Physical and Earthly "evidences" visible to eyes, that making entering in some Special period for human, is Preaching Error. Perhaps Matt 24 is possible to use for 1914, as for many other periods in Human History. But Establishing of Kingdom (in 1914??) is not possible to support by "signs", because of reasoning Jesus has told, as you very well pointed out.

What is "good" for a man, woman ? :)) To be without any problem, doubt, etc? To have all we want and consider as "good" in our opinion? Sometimes, to be in trouble, doubt, hard time can be considered as "good" for individual if he learn something and become better person. By this "bad" is also "good" and belongs to God, too :)) As in Job experience. Only after sufferings he learn something "good" he didn't know before and perhaps he would never knew without suffer. What we shall say, is suffer good or bad? In other hand, suffer is "good" only in limited way, and not in everything people have to face. Because, in cases of child molestation for example, as in many others evil things, this sort of thinking, reasoning would be very strange. When people, religious, put theologically, answering the question; Why does God allow suffering? Answers are these from JWorg: First, he has not stopped Satan and those who side with him from trying to prove that they are right. Allowing time to pass has thus been necessary. In the thousands of years of human history, mankind has been able to try every form of self-rule, or human government. Mankind has made some advances in science and other fields, but injustice, poverty, crime, and war have grown ever worse. Human rule has now been shown to be a failure. Second, Jehovah has not helped Satan to rule this world. If God were to prevent horrible crimes, for instance, would he not, in effect, be supporting the case of the rebels? Would God not be making people think that perhaps humans can govern themselves without disastrous results? If Jehovah were to act in that way, he would become party to a lie. However, “it is impossible for God to lie.”—Hebrews 6:18. It is time to ask: If Main question, according to WT publication, is issue of Power and Governing over people, than "proving" who is right and who is wrong have to be settled in sort of Court or Congress, Senate, to be said in such terminology, and not on roads and hills, etc. Also, for second part of explanation. Preventing crimes is not prove of supporting those who doing crimes. Contrary, by active involving in situation you show your standpoint and position, are you for "good" or "bad", especially if you are in possibility to see human hearts and motives and have all wisdom and power.

This is good explanation :))))) Than i have suggestion. Ceremony of "dedication" building to God after Construction team had finished job have to be done again but in reversible meaning. After real estate agent made new contract, Congregants will be gathered in KH for the last time "TO UNDEDICATE" buillding, bricks, roof, grass etc, especially if new buyer is someone from false religion church. It would not be a good thing to remain even the smallest part of God’s blessing to a new owner. :))))

newbie /ˈnjuːbi/ noun INFORMAL an inexperienced newcomer to a particular activity. People who run this forum putting different names (etiquette) under names of participants. They choose etiquette like this: "newbie, member, advanced member". By accusing me on "judging another" you primarily judging owners of this forum who put that sort of "characteristic" and apply such names, titles or nomenclature on all of us here. With such practice in run, i don't see how your objection for my humorous context of using word "newbie" is Judging?! :))

Doctrines and instructions that some Church has as teachings, make that particular religion as false or semi false. I think that we can not find any organization or church as "only true religion" because all of them have at least one or more than one err, wrong, false doctrine/s. :)))) 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” - Acts 1 .... you are "newbie" in this ? :)))