Srecko Sostar

You forget the fact that religious leaders like to see themselves as God's representatives and as the only ones who know how to understand God's words. In light of this fact, which you forgot for some inexplicable reason, WTJWorg and their Main Ecclesiastical Body constantly claim to be “guided by HS”, or in other words, that the all and every interpretations presented by them, came from God. With this clarity of the real situation, the term “revision” or "increased knowledge" takes on a real meaning. For it is hard to believe that God would have been the one to revise his own “dogma”. It, "revisions", is the product of manipulators who are at the forefront of religion. Thanks but No. I don't belong to your "flock"

Revisions are a kind of contradiction. Take, for example, interpretations of "generation." Each new "revision" is contrary to the previous interpretation. So they are all contradictory to each other. I am not interested in other religions, because all religions are the same. They want to have power over people. The conversation about this religion stems from only one fact. I used to be a member of this religion. I'm not anymore. This is just a part of mental / spiritual gymnastics, then certain types of loneliness and lack of interest in socializing with people who have a different history. There are probably some other reasons, but who will understand all this :).

Can you explain your contradictory statement? It is a strange thought, since a Thinking Christian understands there were Nephilim's on earth after having relations with the daughters of man. Genesis 6:1-4 What point in time are you referring to, and in what sense can Satan not influence man or his earthly agencies? 16:17-20 To conclude this warning Paul added the promise, The God of peace (cf. 15:33; Heb 13:20) will soon crush Satan under your feet (cf. Gen 3:15). The false teachers (Rom 16:17-18) were under Satan's influence, but he will be destroyed and God will establish peace (Rev 20:1-6). Then Paul gave another benediction (cf. Rom 15:13,33) about God's grace. (See the chart, "Paul's Concluding Benedictions in His Epistles.") WTJWorg have contradictory statements, not me. Please, read quotes from WT magazines provided in previous comments, of which I used just one quote to show discrepancy and contradiction.

Here is another strange thought. They say that satan is a spiritual creature and therefore cannot act on the physical world !? quote continue: , but he will use human agencies to do his deeds. Such a statement nullifies any possibility that Jesus and the angels will execute a "final judgment" on "evil men" aka "goats." According to Bible interpretations of WTJWorg Jesus and angels are "spiritual creatures" too, and they as such also belongs to ..... as a spirit creature/s, he/they cannot carry out his/their attack directly ..... The WT text suggests that spiritual forces (evil and good) actually influence people to perform some action for the benefit of the spirit world. So let's put it this way; satan and demons will inspire one evil group of people against another evil group of people to destroy each other. For what purpose? How would only JW members remain? Who then will attack the JW, because that is how the JW preaches? Gog from Magog, say JW. But Gog of Magog are united evil people / nations (human agencies, as they named them) ..... who have already destroyed each other. Even before the "last attack" on JW. Moreover, if according to such an interpretation, angels cannot physically act on the literal world, then they never could, so the biblical accounts of such events in the past are fiction. Therefore, this "outdated" interpretation of Gog and Magog also promotes another idea/interpretation that has not been so pronounced so far, at least not visible to me, in which they claims; "Angels are not able to physically act on people." Picture and quote, for example this one, is contradiction then. Jesus and his heavenly army will soon ride into the war of Armageddon to destroy God’s enemies! (See paragraph 17) - https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-october-2019/stay-faithful-through-great-tribulation/

I just realized how i comment about this topic on another topic about same issue. Let me copy/paste the same comment. --------------------------------- Suicide in the ancient world did not carry the same negative connotations as it does today. Even bible text nowhere said how suicide is a sin or forbidden by Law. The biblical attitude toward suicide ranges from ambivalence to praise. Never made Judgmental statement against those who done that act of self-destruction. -Abimelech came to the tower, and fought against it, and came near to the entrance of the tower to burn it with fire. But a certain woman threw an upper millstone on Abimelech's head, and crushed his skull. Immediately he called to the young man who carried his armor and said to him, “Draw your sword and kill me, so people will not say about me, ‘A woman killed him.’ ” So the young man thrust him through, and he died. -the counselor Ahithophel hanged himself When Ahithophel saw that his counsel was not followed, he saddled his donkey and went off home to his own city. He set his house in order, and hanged himself; he died and was buried in the tomb of his father. -Zimri, King of Israel, burned down his house around himself after military defeat. When Zimri saw that the city was taken, he went into the citadel of the royal palace and set the palace on fire around him. So he died, -Saul and his armor-bearer Then Saul said to his armor-bearer, “Draw your sword, and thrust me through with it, so that these uncircumcised may not come and make sport of me. But his armor-bearer was unwilling, for he was terrified. So Saul took his own sword and fell on it. When his armor-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he also fell on his sword and died. Thus Saul died; he and his three sons and all his house died together -Samson Then Samson prayed to the Lord,“Sovereign Lord, remember me. Please, God, strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes.... Samson said, “Let me die with the Philistines!” Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived. -even Judas suicide is an act of remorse, deep regret. According to JW elders instruction, he gave visible, strong signs of repentance :)) When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood

@Patiently waiting for Truth Greeting. In your last comment, by mistake two Thinking's comments are presented under my name.

I would say, how can we draw a parallel from the characters of Moses and Aaron. WTJWorg is considered the successor of all of God’s organizations that have emerged throughout history, to use their logic. Noah's Ark = God's Organization, Nation Israel = God's Organization, First Assembly = God's Organization, WTBTS = God's Organization. However, each of the above had "Earth Representatives", so Moses would be the archetype of GB, and Aaron would be the representative of today's Helpers. Both of today’s classes at WTJWorg feel that they are inspired (guided) by God and that their instructions should be followed without discussion. As with Moses and Aaron, who made compromises to please the people, so today’s religious leaders are making changes in theology and practice. Sometimes they are a relief to the people, and sometimes an additional burden. So, enough about the alleged "spirit guidance". Because the comment provided by Thinking proves this setting or thesis. Like other leaders of the people, GB and Helpers = Administration, monitor the beats and pulse of their people. When the pressure in the “body” of the assembly becomes too high something must be done. In other words, there are changes in interpretations. You who are permanent members of the JW Assembly are better informed about the new changes, bigger and smaller. Sometimes they have to come because of changes in the “outside world,” and most come because of internal events. It is unfortunate that you, JW members, who see the reality within WTJWorg, are still trying to defend what is indefensible. Because if a certain theology still lives in WTJWorg, and you are willing to support and defend it, how will you feel when it is changed, and you knew something was wrong? Some of you are already resisting the "nonsense" that comes from GB, while at the same time you are watching some of your spiritual brothers and sisters stumble under the burden of theology that you are aware has failed. ............. Don't you feel sad? Don't you want to help them not be afraid of man?

I and the Father are one. - john 10:30

Word "stupid" is under quotation marks. Because of that nothing is rude and obnoxious in my "false tongue".

How can you ask me such "stupid" question. TTH mentioned Jesus ’words in which he invites people around him to eat his body and drink his blood. I only expanded the possibility that the apostles and other followers repeated Jesus ’words in front of other people. If they were “rigid” in preaching such “religious teachings,” my conclusion was in the commentary. So I really don’t understand how you don’t understand the context within which my remark is.

Jesus had his reason for speaking. But even his listeners had good reason to be offended by what was said. I believe many of them remembered their ancestors and the prophecies that were fulfilled. Therefore in your midst parents will eat their children, and children will eat their parents. I will inflict punishment on you and will scatter all your survivors to the winds. - Ezekiel 5:10 Then he asked her, “What’s the matter?” She answered, “This woman said to me, ‘Give up your son so we may eat him today, and tomorrow we’ll eat my son.’ So we cooked my son and ate him. The next day I said to her, ‘Give up your son so we may eat him,’ but she had hidden him.” - 2 Kings 6:28,29 And what to say. If in the 1st century they preached eating the body of Jesus and drinking his blood then no wonder they were persecuted. I don’t think Jesus said anywhere that they preach it, but to preach the good news about Jesus. Even the JWs stopped preaching directly about the guilt and destruction of the Catholic Church. Why? Because that would be hate speech, I guess.

The general fact is that we are, usually all, generals after a battle. But real generals also analyze their actions after the battle to be more successful next time. Everything is subject to criticism and questioning. Doing nothing is wrong. But is the persistence in doing wrong things proof that we are still doing something good because we have convinced ourselves that it is better than doing nothing? Preaching that Armageddon will take place in certain years or within a certain period gives some hope to people who believe in it. And after a failed theology, there are “generals and ordinary surviving soldiers” who comment on it. We could accept the claim that accepting false hope is better than no hope at all. With such an idea, we could believe the claim that JWs have reached a high/er standard of faith and hope compared to some other people. Are JWs more honest and moral people than others? So now, do you really want to brag about that?

I find that this organization often follows its own interpretations of the Bible/scripture.

Sorry, it was only a questions that arose; How many individuals touched the body of the dead Jesus, on Earth? And was that considered an unclean act? Who took away the body of Jesus that could not be found? And is that unclean act, aka did they become unclean because of it? Is the body of the dead Jesus unclean?

The idea of sacrificing to the god/s is not unusual, because people sacrificed to the god/s, because they want god/s to protect them or help them. To some extent, this is about bribery. Sometimes it is a way of thanking the god/s. One aspect of why people made sacrifices is that they did not understand the laws of nature. Because they felt helpless or felt some debt to the Unknown. That is how god/s of all kind came into being. The idea that people are obliged to make sacrifices to god/s does not exist in the initial (Bible) descriptions of the relationship between God and man (Adam, Eve, Abel, Cain ...). WTJWorg explains that the most important reason why God rejected Cain’s sacrifice was that he had no faith, and Abel had. Meat and bloodshed also play a role, but WTJWorg publications do not claim that this was the sole reason. But giving material or symbolic or spiritual or physical sacrifices to God should not be a practice in which the relationship between God and man should be developed. After all, it is said that God himself said and had it written in the Bible that obedience is more important to him than sacrifice. The thought of having to kill someone to please God is terrible, frightening.

What makes you think, the death of Abel was acceptable to God? Is that what you understand from @Srecko Sostar, It is true that i have problematic grammar, but your confused conclusion is funny.

Jesus sends "his" holy spirit? Apologies.... you know what I meant. Without getting technical - God is the sole source of Holy Spirit and Jesus has been given all authority. " That is why I am going away. The Holy Spirit cannot come to help You until I leave. But after I am gone, I will send the Spirit to you. - John 16:5-7 But after I am gone, I will send the Spirit to you. - John 16:5-7 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. - John 14:16 I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit - Mark 1:8 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. - John 14:26 When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, - John 15:26 I just want to notice. If, according to WTJWorg, HS is just some kind of energy, then every person in heaven and on earth has their own spirit or energy. The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. - Romans 8:16. God is holy so his spirit is also holy. Is Jesus as a person on earth or as a person in heaven holy? If it is then his spirit is holy, too. From all this arises a really interesting question: which spirit Jesus sends, his own or God's. Can Jesus send the spirit of another person, his Father, and vice versa? Or is it logical to send his own HS? HS is also called the spirit of truth, and Jesus claims that He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. It seems how Bible verses above speaking in both ways.

I think it is unrealistic to claim that all UN members have influence over the UN General Assembly and their decisions on behalf of “all nations”. There are several in the UN who are the only ones who have the right to veto all decisions, also those that are influential and powerful enough to undo any action by other UN members and to exert influence over them. In addition, various interpretations of the WTJWorg about the “northern and southern kings,” and “Gog of Magog” call into question the construction you have interpreted about the UN. To understand the prophecy recorded in Daniel chapter 11, we need to keep in mind that it identifies only rulers and governments that have had a direct influence on God’s people. And even though God’s servants make up only a small portion of the world’s population, they are often at the center of major world events. Why? Because Satan and his entire system have one prime objective—conquering those who serve Jehovah and Jesus. - https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-may-2020/The-King-of-the-North-in-the-Time-of-the-End/ If the whole UN wants to destroy WTJWorg then they should be well aware of the JW ideology that makes them want to destroy you. The king of the north has supported the king of the south in one key endeavor; they “put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation.” (Dan. 11:31) That “disgusting thing” is the United Nations. -https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-may-2020/The-King-of-the-North-in-the-Time-of-the-End/ WTJWorg considers its Organization the only holy place on Earth because it is where God is worshiped in truth. How did the northern and southern kings put the UN in your “spiritual temple”? Or how will they put it in the future? But your magazines add confusion. We read this: In the first fulfillment, the “standing in a holy place” occurred in 66 C.E. when the Roman army (“the disgusting thing”) attacked Jerusalem and its temple (a place holy in the eyes of the Jews). In the larger fulfillment, the “standing” will occur when the United Nations (the modern-day “disgusting thing”) attacks Christendom (which is holy in the eyes of nominal Christians) and the rest of Babylon the Great. The same attack is described at Revelation 17:16-18. That event will be the beginning of the great tribulation. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2013530#h=13:0-13:842 WTJWorg is Babylon aka Confusion. -------------------------------------------------- PS So the restoration of spiritual Israel in 1919 to a radiant spiritual prosperity, which continues and expands to this day, stands as evidence that Babylon the Great fell in that year. No longer does she have power of restraint over God’s people. Moreover, she has come into deep trouble within her own ranks. Since 1919 her corruption, dishonesty, and immorality have been widely exposed. In most of Europe, few people go to church anymore, and in some socialistic countries, religion is regarded as “the opium of the people.” Disgraced in the eyes of all lovers of God’s Word of truth, Babylon the Great now waits on death row, as it were, for the execution of Jehovah’s righteous judgment on her. - https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/Revelation-Its-Grand-Climax-At-Hand/Babylon-the-Great-Has-Fallen/

:))) This could be interpreted as the Bible being a Protestant book, too. God supposedly wants man to love him with all his heart. Love is the most sacred quality, because God is love. And love is exclusively a matter of the heart and only then of the soul and mind. The temple of God is in the human heart. Therefore, the heart is the holiest place because the Temple is the holiest place. Man himself is the temple of God according to the Bible. If in the past the Temple of God was the holiest place on earth (in Jerusalem), then the only place where God can dwell today is, nowhere else, but in the heart of a person.

“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),” - Matt 24:15 The whole chapter is complex and sometimes contradictory in expression. But one could observe the transferred meaning of two literal things. One literal thing is this graphic representation and the next literal thing is a biblical quote. It occurred to me to conclude like this: The holiest place in the universe is in a person’s heart. If 80% of the space in the heart of JW members is occupied by GB (man and his religious system) then this inevitably leads to disaster.

If God wants to establish the "original" intention/plan/will (about which we speculate based on reading of a few passages from the book of Genesis) then it seems acceptable to me that man worships God “under the stars”. In a primary, primitive way. Contrary, worship systems, all of them, even those that some call “the best,” those within the old nation of Israel, and that achieved with the 12 Apostles and then in the 1st Congregation, are prone to corruption. Reality and history prove it. Literal walls and spiritual walls have a lifespan. During existence, damage can (and does) occur, failure occurs. There is a need to renovate or build a new building. The existence of 2 Testaments confirms this. Why wouldn't there be a 3rd Testament? Or a complete return to the Original?

It seems to me that this is exactly what the worship of God looked like in the beginning.

Agree. Of course it is not so simple.

Does this "Church of Christ" carry this name or have a specific, another name today?

I was in two forms of the Christian life. Until they became JW, my parents were Catholics and we lived as Catholic Christians (until i was 7 y old). Later they accepted the teachings of JW and with my parents I was raised in that spirit. So, accepting the faith of my parents, I became a Christian according to the beliefs and interpretations of WTJWorg. I stopped being a Christian as defined and interpreted by the doctrine of WTJWorg. Do I consider myself a follower of Jesus Christ? I think this is a question that should be asked more often by all those who feel they belong to some - every Christian ideology / theology.