Srecko Sostar

Please define/determine "Christian life".

It can also be an expression of competition and the ability to refute the opposite side with quotes. What the Spirit of God has in all this, on both sides involved in the discussion, does not have to be part of reality, but only on our ideas of reality. And our needs / skills to show ourselves stronger. Of course, this (quotes) should not be wrong because it can give the other side food for thought. But it can come back like a boomerang if the other party has the knowledge to neutralize some biblical quote with another biblical quote or with reality. Quoting some biblical passages is, many times, part of the interpretation of a certain group of believers, and the interpretations are often times on shaky feet and are not a reflection of the workings of HS. WTJWorg has proven this many times.

But you contribute with "wood" by posting citation/verses. :))

As a former JW, I was also taught that the Bible (I guess it's just NT) was written for 144,000. Whether that's true or not I leave to the discussants. I suppose, among other things, this meant that they bear primary responsibility as “bearers of light” because of their special relationship with God through Christ. But today, I’m not entirely sure if that concept can be accurate. We are talking, here, about 144000 as a literal number according to WTJWorg. But that’s not what prompted me to comment. Does the GB have special legitimacy, as “anointed” or as “FDS” or as “elders” or as some other type of entity in WTJWorg so that they are worthy of “full trust” from JW members? That would be in the context of your comment, and support ascertainment that any kind of “super important apostles” (self appointed GB, Helpers, all sort of administration) are irrelevant, also today, like those in the past.

JW members (the vast majority of them) are lost in their illusions they have accepted from WTJWorg. Because they consider all the people around them, who are not JWs, “enemies” and only themselves the only righteous and honest people, who are, as they say, the only true worshipers of God, it brings them into one of the most dangerous situations one can find oneself; proclamation of self-righteousness.

Scriptures have their advantages, but they also have their disadvantages. It is not a book on natural sciences, geology, biology, zoology, etc. For many of the things we are discussing we will never find a biblical quote. Or do you think it's possible? If possible, then let’s say, who in this JW Open Club can quote some biblical passage that supports the thesis of JW Christians that blood components and fractions are that what they are not, or that they are not what they are? Many have a problem with WTJWorg, not just me. Loyal members have a bigger problem, because they are inside and I am outside :)) The fact that we are in the JW Open Club and that we are developing various discussions under this platform shows that you are not quite right in that assessment.

How does this square with the fact man was made perfect. Had man continued to be perfect in the Garden, how would they know what plants had illicit use? Then, there would be no such sinful placement upon man with such cursed ideology. According to the WTJWorg interpretation, Adam and Eve along with their descendants lived long after their expulsion from Paradise. So they did not die the day they sinned. Various ideas about how long a biblical "day" lasts add to the confusion. We might speculate that their long life is a legacy of the remaining traces of “perfection”. WTJWorg’s next idea is that Adam and Eve were aware of each of their actions. If so, then at the time of creation they already knew what to eat and what not. Or do you think that by being expelled from Paradise they became demented and forgot what could be eaten. It is difficult to understand God, especially after so many interpretations of him generated by religious leaders.

You're right. But one topic cannot do without another. Trying to elaborate on the topic of animals and their diet before and after the Flood is difficult without trying to find out their original state, ie the relationship between all species of animals and the type of diet in the initial stage of existence. If I may remind you of my older comment on this (as well as on many other topics); We can only speculate.

How are these two points not be considered, contradictory? Let say this way. If we assumed that God expected Adam and Eve to do something in life, be it physical, intellectual, emotional or ideological/theoretical, then it cannot be under the burden of a “curse”. Adam and Eve had to deal with the same “program of work” regardless of the change in their status before God. It is obvious that God made it difficult for them to carry out his own original plan. So have we not realized that no one has an argument for one thesis or another. Were they herbivores or carnivores (or both) at the time of their creation. Or that changed later (Flood time point). Regardless of the conclusion, it is evident that most living beings can adapt their way of life to conditions and changes in nature.

I agree that work/working (as a concept, principle, call ..,) is not a punishment or a curse. The curse mentioned in Genesis is an expression of God’s anger and temperament at a given moment. In some other evil deeds done by men, God was not so enraged nor did he act fast on the transgressors. For example, he gave people at least 120 years of life before the execution of the flood. The execution of Armageddon, interpreted by WTJWorg, did not take place within 2000 years. The question is, have animals “lost” their "perfection" because of man? Is the sin of Adam and Eve transferable to animals or only to the human descendants of Adam and Eve? WTJWorg says that Adam’s children inherited sin from their parents. Where does it say that animals inherited human sin? If animals did not inherit human sin, if animals did not violate God’s command, then why would they “lose perfection”? WTJWorg says that animals were created mortal and that they died in Paradise. So, being mortal does not mean being sinful. So also, to be perfect means to be mortal.

His statement is ridiculous. Well, didn't Jesus establish and open the way when he was on Earth? Plus, the challenge of being right and clean never ends.

WTJWorg teaches that the deaths of Adam and Eve were a “punishment” for sin. In this literal expression of the Bible quote, God did not place a "curse" on Adam and Eve but a "punishment" for disobedience to the command. Of course, we can call any kind of punishment that is inflicted on us a "curse" or "bad luck" or whatever. Thus, according to a literal reading of the biblical text, death followed as a punishment for transgression (eating from a forbidden tree). The text further says that God "cursed" the serpent, and not other animals. The text says that God placed, on top of the original threat of death punishment over Adam and Eve, an "additional punishment" that he did not mention the first time (pains in childbearing very severe, painful labor, desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you, cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it ...,) So, what was all this described in the text of Genesis: punishment or curse? And what is the difference between the two concepts? In a terminological or ideological (religious) sense? curse - noun; 1) magical words that are said to cause trouble or bad luck for someone or the condition that results when such words are said 2) a cause of trouble or bad luck curse - verb; 1) to call upon divine or supernatural power to send injury upon 2) to bring great evil upon punishment - noun; 1) the act of punishing 2) suffering, pain, or loss that serves as retribution 3) a penalty inflicted on an offender through judicial procedure 4) severe, rough, or disastrous treatment ----------------------------------- The mention of Noah in this topic shows that both types of behavior, exemplary and shameful, shown by one and the same person in different circumstances, can be understood as part of the human personality. One does not have to be “imperfect” to behave badly. A man can be “perfect” and do equally bad things. Both states (perfect vs imperfect) offer no guarantee to anyone. Did God have any expectations of the perfect things He created? Well, I guess he is. The additional "cursing" and "regret" that he created man in general, speaks of the terrible disappointment that God experienced. And now he has to reap what he sowed, doesn't he?

It's the same with people, isn't it?

To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. 18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. 19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.” These words say that God has cursed the earth/ground. He didn't curse the man. He didn't curse the animals. Cursing the earth, he said that thorns and thistles would grow. There is something else to keep in mind with this. Not all plants (eaten by man) are full of thorns, and those we call weeds or are prickly have medicinal properties. After all, they are eaten by animals that give us milk, and from them man makes very fine food. So not everything is as bad as it may seem by reading these Bible verses. Verse 2: The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands. This needs to be understood relatively. Because many people are killed or wounded by various types of animals. So, there are animals that are not really afraid of man. Mosquitoes are strong example for that. Verse 3: Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. Literally reading, only a man was given permission to eat everything alive around him. Animals are not mentioned in this decree. Verses 4,5,6: But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. 5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being. Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind. Ah, this is weird now. If someone sheds another man’s blood they will be called to account. How does God call man to account if he sheds another man's blood? How does he call to account an animal that kills a man and sheds his blood? ---------------------- Little picture about Noah... before and after Flood. This is the account of Noah and his family. Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked faithfully with God. Gen 6:9 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded[a] to plant a vineyard. 21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. Gen 9:20 A pictures of a drunken Noah are not for WTJWorg publications, are they?

I am of the opinion that my comment, which I put again, quite simply pointed to the fact that hemp is a plant that carries seeds and that, according to Genesis, it is intended for human consumption. That's all and only that. I wasn’t talking about meat or teeth growing, so it’s not clear to me what’s not clear to you in my comment about hemp. If you go back to my comment from before this, and it is for example this: and your's: The vast majority of animals do not have fangs, and yet they eat a variety of tough grass, tree bark, prickly cacti and the like. From that, I would conclude that the animals that we later called predators (with fangs) should not have had such types of teeth in the very act of creation, because many other animals are so-called. predators without canines. Owls do not have fangs and yet they successfully kill their prey. What did the owls eat in Eden? You offer the following explanation: After this kind of conclusion, the question arises: Why would God instill in animals an "instinct" that is secretly waiting for a revolution and rebellion of angels and people against God, and then the animals "go crazy" and start killing each other? If God instilled in animals this kind of instinct in advance then God must have known something we do not know about God, about humans and about animals, so we interpret the Bible book of Genesis in a way that did not take into account other factors. It is similar with people. Well people have instincts too. Or does someone want to claim that we don’t have them?

Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so. quote from article: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/323037#_noHeaderPrefixedContent Although hemp seeds come from the Cannabis sativa plant, they do not produce a mind-altering effect. These small, brown seeds are rich in protein, fiber, and healthful fatty acids, including omega-3s and omega-6s. They have antioxidant effects and may reduce symptoms of numerous ailments, improving the health of the heart, skin, and joints. In this article, we look at the various benefits of hemp seeds and provide tips for adding them to the diet.

It is not difficult to conclude, according to the article, that in fact all plants were supposed to be for human consumption. So, plants with intoxicating ingredients, stronger or weaker, not be wrong to take (marijuana and similar grass/ weeds)

Herbivores, carnivores and omnivores. Each of them should have the ability to live from the food they eat. The digestive system, from the entrance to the exit, of food should be adapted to the type of food. If God created each species for a specific purpose then we should not expect, as suggested in the commentary, that humans and animals (and other organisms) were herbivores before the flood and became carnivores or omnivores after the flood, according to the offered biblical quote,... God gave them all to eat "green grass and herbs" (Gen 1:30). Moreover, such a possibility of adaptation of so many species of organisms to a sudden change in diet supports the theory that living organisms "adapt" to the natural environment and other changing conditions on Earth. This consequently means that God “created” all organisms in such a way that they can change or evolve in order to be able to live and survive in changed conditions, and for which we still see that it is possible and accurate. This again means that God knew in advance that Adam and Eve would sin, start killing each other, and animals, and eat meat. This means that God knew in advance about the Flood and the change in the diet for all the organisms on Earth, etc. Knowing what the future holds, God equipped the organisms in advance for change. The idea or thesis that God would know about every detail of the future is something that WTJWorg rejects in its theology. JW theology says that God has the ability to see the future, but that he is discreet and considerate of people and their free will to such an extent that He does not want to look at the future of each individual and thus enter into someone's privacy. Certainly this kind of explanation has its flaws and does not explain why then God would deal with the future and prophecies if He does not want to see it in advance. The Bible is a book that is not always clear, not even in terms of theology, let alone to deal with such answers to the question in the subject. The text leaves too much room for conjecture. And to draw various conclusions that do not have to be an indication of accuracy. Only intellectual wandering, imagination and daily politics (daily ideologies). If God created everything, then he also created organisms, many of which are invisible to the human eye, and which live in someone else's body and at the expense of their host. Some are useful to him, and some are able to torture and kill his host. Or take for example the behavior of the vast majority of animals, if not all (even humans). The instinct to have and protect or conquer someone else's - food area, place for home, females for mating. So, God instilled in them such an instinct for behavior during creation. And, on the other hand, most societies in today's civilization reject the "biblical concept" of the ancient patriarchs, to whom the described situation was completely natural and approved by God. Both, before the flood and after the Flood, for example polygamy was acceptable. The fact that comes from the biblical text that God created only one woman for Adam was not decisive for future human society, regardless of their religiosity, that people with the blessing of that same God establish families in which a man has more than one wife. Whether they are vegetarians or omnivores. We could say that God has changed his mind and attitudes and behavior in different circumstances and times throughout history. He changed it in terms of human nutrition (and animals?), And in terms of marital status of people. Insisting today on any of the theses offered (or practice and way of life) would be limited and would show that we are less adaptable than God who is able in many things to adapt himself to people and their capabilities. I’ve heard that today’s nutritionists don’t talk about healthy or unhealthy food. All food is healthy to eat.....but not every amount of food. There can only be hygienically unsafe food. You know, in the sense that the expiration date has passed or that the food is in the process of rotting and the like.

Whichever way we interpret it, God accepted Abel’s meat sacrifice rather than Cain’s vegetable sacrifice. And that's proof ..... of what?

Same with me. I just found it yesterday.

In my amateur opinion it can be classical guitar or a similar stringed instrument (tamburitza, mandolin) and contra-bass (double bass)