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Srecko Sostar

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  1. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in Is "dynamic energy" a Proper Translation In Isaiah 40:26?   
    Maybe. But in context keeping the stars in place really does in imply some great power, and the references to power is doubled in this verse: his great power and might. Implying doubled or multiplied or even "exponential" might. (Power to the power of power.)
  2. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in Is "dynamic energy" a Proper Translation In Isaiah 40:26?   
    Here is Gesenius on the word. Gesenius is often considered the ultimate Hebrew-language authority by Watchtower publications:

    Here is Strong's:
    אוֹן ʼôwn, probably from the same as H205 (in the sense of effort, but successful); ability, power, (figuratively) wealth:—force, goods, might, strength, substance.
    Here are the different ways the NWT now translates the same word. Looks like it can refer to procreative strength, monetary strength (wealth), but I also see a sense of "energetic vigor" or "pep" especially in Job 18:7.
    (Genesis 49:3) 3 “Reuʹben, you are my firstborn, my vigor and the beginning of my procreative power, the excellence of dignity and the excellence of strength. (Job 18:7, 8, 12 )  7 His vigorous stride is shortened, And his own counsel will make him fall.  8 For his feet will lead him into a net, And he will wander onto its mesh. . . . His strength fails him, And disaster will make him stagger. (Job 20:10) . . .His own children will seek the favor of the poor, And his own hands will give back his wealth. (Job 40:15, 16) . . .Here, now, is Be·heʹmoth, which I made as I made you. It eats grass like a bull. 16 Look at the strength in its hips And the power in the muscles of its belly! (Isaiah 40:26) . . .Who has created these things? It is the One who brings out their army by number; He calls them all by name. Because of his vast dynamic energy and his awe-inspiring power, Not one of them is missing. (Isaiah 40:29) . . .He gives power to the tired one And full might to those lacking strength. (Hosea 12:2, 3) . . .Jacob . . . 3 In the womb he seized his brother by the heel, And with his vigor he contended with God. (Hosea 12:8) . . .Eʹphra·im keeps saying, ‘Indeed, I have become rich; I have found wealth.. . . It doesn't seem consistent to use "dynamic energy" in Isaiah 40:26 and then use just power, strength, and vigor in the other places. You wouldn't say of Jacob that he wrestled the angel with his "dynamic energy" yet it's the same word. You wouldn't say that the wicked man's "dynamic energy" of his gait is reduced, and that his "dynamic energy" fails him when he staggers or falls. Yet these are also the same word.
    But I should add that Isaiah 40:26 references Jehovah keeping all the stars in place, an extremely complex set of constellations, even more awe-inspiring in desert lands. And it was correctly realized that none were missing, in spite of the fact that meteors were seen in the common mind as "falling stars."
  3. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to admin in A Bigger Crisis Is On The Horizon, And It Will Last For Decades   
    As the news talks about enforcing mandatory lockdowns, and handing out money to citizens… There has been a problem that has been rapidly expanding in the background of all of this news. …
    And It is a problem that the world has never really seen before. In fact… it might create a crisis that won’t just be felt in the next week, the next month, or even the next year... but it might be felt for several decades to come…
    During World War 2, Britain was in the thick of war against the axis powers. However, Britain ran into a roadblock…they were quickly running out of money. So, they began looking to borrow money from both their own future taxpayers, as well as the United States & Canada. In 1941 Britain began accepting loans and taking on debt to fund the war… and by 1945 Britain had taken on nearly $10 Billion dollars worth of debt from its creditors. At this point in time, Britains debt to GDP ratio was a whopping 200% meaning that the country had twice as much debt, as its entire market value of all its goods and services it produces over an entire year. And just some perspective for you, is that the World Bank states that once a country reaches above 77% debt to GDP ratio, its economy will begin to slow down from such a large portion of its revenue going towards paying down its debt. Anyways, after the war ended, Britain had amassed a debt that was so large, that they couldn’t pay it back in 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, or even 20 years.
    On December 29, 2006, Britain made its last repayment on its World War 2 debt to The United States and Canada. This means that British taxpayers from 1945, up until 2006 had a small portion of their tax bill every year, go towards the Debt that the country accumulated in the 1940’s. And for about a decade after the war, Britains economy was drastically hindered, in part due to their outstanding debt that they incurred. However, their economy eventually recovered thanks to an influx of taxpayers, called the baby boomers, as well as some economic reforms and infrastructure investments. But a lot of the times when a country accrues as much debt as britain did, they are not so lucky.
    In 2001 Argentina’s debt to GDP ratio reached a high of 166%, which caused the country to default on over $100 Billion dollars worth of debt. This default made capital move out of the country, and soon the nation saw millions of people enter poverty while unemployment reached a high of 19%. And to this day, Argentina hasn’t fully recovered from its debt crisis that it went through nearly 20 years ago. And similar stories can be said for Greece in 2012, Zimbabwe in 2006, Venezuala in 2017, and Russia in 1998. The point I am trying to make here is that even though debt can be a good thing to take on… in order to solve today’s serious problems…it will almost always have serious long-term consequences that could last for years or even decades.
    So now, lets bring this back to the United States. So whether you know it or not, America essentially runs on debt. Historically, America’s economy has been so big, and has grown so fast, that taking out tens of billions of debt here or there hasn’t really been much of a big deal because it was such a small percentage of the countries overall Economy. For example In 2006, The United States had a relatively healthy Debt to GDP ratio of about 60%. But then…the financial crisis hit. During the financial crisis, the United states began scrambling for ways to pump money back into the economy… so it began taking out hundreds of billions of dollars worth of debt. And some people might think that The United States, along with every other country that took out debt to get through the financial crisis, has paid off some of their debt since 2008. But actually, the opposite of that is true.
    You see, since the financial crisis, many developed countries throughout the world have been accruing more and more debt every year, while economic growth has slowed. This means that many countries may actually find it more difficult to pay off their debt now, than they did during the financial crisis.
     
  4. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to admin in 50 Dollars   
    Morris and his wife Esther went to the state fair every year, and every year Morris would say, "Esther, I'd like to ride in that helicopter".    Esther always replied, "I know Morris, but that helicopter ride is 50 dollars and 50 dollars is 50 dollars".    One year Esther and Morris went to the fair, and Morris said, "Esther, I'm 85 years old. If I don't ride that helicopter, I might never get another chance."    Esther replied, "Morris that helicopter is 50 dollars and 50 dollars is 50 dollars".   The pilot overheard the couple and said, "Folks I'll make you a deal. I'll take the both of you for a ride. If you can stay quiet for the entire ride and not say a word I won't charge you! But if you say one word, it's 50 dollars."   Morris and Esther agreed and up they went. The pilot did all kinds of fancy maneuvers, but not a word was heard. He did his daredevil tricks over and over again, but still not a word. When they landed, the pilot   turned to Morris and said, "By golly, I did everything I could to get you to yell out, but you didn't. I'm impressed!"   Morris replied, "Well, to tell you the truth, I almost said something when Esther fell out, but you know -- 50 dollars is 50 dollars".  
  5. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Witness in "NUMBERS DON'T LIE, BUT YOU CAN LIE WITH NUMBERS"   
    I watched that this morning. Very good presentation about "hours" and statistic on preaching service, categorization.
    In my "last days of last days" period of my living JWorg i internationally put 30 minutes on report paper. Elder called me and say that i have to write new report because this i gave is not acceptable. Something like, give report next month on which i can put 30 minutes from this report. I reminded him how it is acceptable to put 15 minutes on report if you don't have more hours/time. Than he said that i have not permission from Elders for doing so. Or course, that was my last report :))
  6. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to admin in A Hard Look at Yourself   
    It doesn't hurt to take a hard look at yourself from time to time, and this should help get you started.

    During a visit to the mental asylum, a visitor asked the director what the criterion was that defined whether or not a patient should be institutionalized.

    "Well," said the Director, "we fill up a bathtub, then we offer a teaspoon, a teacup and a bucket to the patient and ask him or her to empty the bathtub."

    "Oh, I understand," said the visitor. "A normal person would use the bucket because it's bigger than the spoon or the teacup."

    "No," said the Director, "A normal person would pull the plug. Do you want a room with or without a view?"
  7. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to admin in Pizza   
    A college pizza delivery boy arrived at the house of Mr.Smith. He delivered the pizza to his trailer. After giving it to him, Mr. Smith asked: "What is the usual tip?"

    "Well," replied the youth, "this is my first trip here, but the other guys say if I get a quarter out of you, I'll be doing great." 

    "Is that so?" snorted Mr. Smith. "Well, just to show them how wrong they are, here's five dollars."

    "Thanks," replied the youth, "I'll put this in my school fund."

    "What are you studying in school?" asked Larry.

    The lad smiled and said: "Applied psychology."
  8. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to admin in Why Some Men Have Dogs And Not Wives   
    1. The later you are, the more excited your dogs are to see you.


    2. Dogs don't notice if you call them by another dog's name.


    3. Dogs like it if you leave a lot of things on the floor.


    4. A dog's parents never visit.


    5. Dogs agree that you have to raise your voice to get your point across.


    6. You never have to wait for a dog; they're ready to go 24 hours a day.


    7. Dogs find you amusing when you're drunk.


    8. Dogs like to go hunting and fishing.

    9. A dog will not wake you up at night to ask, If I died, would you get
    another dog??


    10. If a dog has babies, you can put an ad in the paper and give them away.


    11. A dog will let you put a studded collar on it without calling you a
    pervert.


    12. If a dog smells another dog on you, they don't get mad. They just think
    it's interesting..


    13. Dogs like to ride in the back of a pickup truck.


    And last, but not least:


    14. If a dog leaves, it won't take half of your stuff.
     
  9. Haha
    Srecko Sostar reacted to admin in Zen Teachings   
    1. Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk ahead of me, for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me for the path is narrow. In fact, just leave me the Hell alone. 

    2. Sex is like air. It's not that important unless you aren't getting any.

    3. No one is listening until you fart. 

    4. Always remember you're unique. Just like everyone else. 

    5. Never test the depth of the water with both feet. 

    6. If you think nobody cares whether you're alive or dead, try missing a couple of payments. 

    7. Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. 

    8. If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you. 

    9. Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day. 

    10. If you lend someone $20 and never see that person again, it was probably well worth it. 

    11. If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. 

    12. Some days you are the dog, some days you are the tree. 

    13. Don't worry, it only seems kinky the first time. 

    14. Good judgment comes from bad experience ... and most of that comes from bad judgment. 

    15. A closed mouth gathers no foot. 

    16. There are two excellent theories for arguing with women. Neither one works. 

    17. Generally speaking, you aren't learning much when your lips are moving. 

    18. Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it. 

    19. We are born naked, wet and hungry, and get slapped on our ass... then things just keep getting worse. 

    20. Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

     
  10. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to AlanF in Is "dynamic energy" a Proper Translation In Isaiah 40:26?   
    Is "dynamic energy" a Proper Translation In Isaiah 40:26?
    In various Watchtower publications the writer argues that the phrase "dynamic energy" that the New World Translation uses in Isaiah 40:26 implies that God inspired Isaiah with divine knowledge of Albert Einstein's most famous equation E=mc^2, i.e., that matter and energy are equivalent. But is this a valid claim? I will show that it is not.
    The 1998 Watchtower book Is There a Creator Who Cares About You? contains a typical example of this argument in chapter 6, "An Ancient Creation Record--Can You Trust It?" (pp. 90-91). After explaining what Einstein's equation means, that matter and energy are intimately related, it says:
    << From beginning to end, the Bible points to the One who created all the matter in the universe, the Scientist. (Nehemiah 9:6; Acts 4:24; Revelation 4:11) And it clearly shows the relationship between energy and matter.
    For example, the Bible invites readers to do this: “Raise your eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one of them is missing.” (Isaiah 40:26) Yes, the Bible is saying that a source of tremendous dynamic energy--the Creator--caused the material universe to come into existence. This is completely in harmony with modern technology. For this reason alone, the Biblical record of creation merits our deep respect. >>
    The argument is wrong in several ways.
    We note that the scriptural quotation is from the New World Translation. The key phrase here is "dynamic energy". The book claims that this somehow has to do with the modern scientific concept of "energy". Does it? Let's go a few verses farther into Isaiah 40 and see. Verse 29 says of God, "He is giving to the tired one power; and to the one without dynamic energy he makes full might abound." Now, does that sound like God is giving "energy" in the modern scientific sense to the one who is tired and lacking power? Of course not. By the same token Isaiah 40:26 is not saying anything about the relationship between matter and energy.
    This can be seen further by looking at the meaning of the Hebrew word 'ohnim that the NWT translates as "dynamic energy". A variety of Hebrew lexicons yield the following definitions: "great strength, might, power, manly vigor", and these quite properly describe God. A better translation of these verses might be this, from Tanakh--The Holy Scriptures by the Jewish Publication Society: "Because of His great might and vast power, not one fails to appear... He gives strength to the weary, fresh vigor to the spent." It seems clear that the author of the Creator book has relied on a misleading translation to make his point. All that Isaiah is saying is that God is really, really big and strong.
  11. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in "NUMBERS DON'T LIE, BUT YOU CAN LIE WITH NUMBERS"   
    I watched that this morning. Very good presentation about "hours" and statistic on preaching service, categorization.
    In my "last days of last days" period of my living JWorg i internationally put 30 minutes on report paper. Elder called me and say that i have to write new report because this i gave is not acceptable. Something like, give report next month on which i can put 30 minutes from this report. I reminded him how it is acceptable to put 15 minutes on report if you don't have more hours/time. Than he said that i have not permission from Elders for doing so. Or course, that was my last report :))
  12. Upvote
  13. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Jehovah’s Witnesses never made a direct prediction that the end would come in 2000?   
    I agree, in fact. 
    If one believes in something, then we may wonder; Why should I convince him that he is wrong ?!
    Why JW preach the Bible to those people who believe in the Bible, but in a different way?
    Why ex-JW sends messages to JW that they are wrong when are submissive to GB in everything, when both, they and GB believe they are right in what they are doing ?!
    And answer on all these "why" is: God allows all that to happen... because he does not have  dilemma. 
    :))
  14. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Jehovah’s Witnesses never made a direct prediction that the end would come in 2000?   
    Problem that all this (Christian) religious leaders have is their idea how God and Jesus choose just/only Them and no one else. GB claims how God had chosen them in 1919 is huge farce. 
    In reality, fact can be verbalized this way: God allowed GB to introduce themselves as his servants in the same manner as God allowed satan to pretend to be an "angel of light". 
    Well, that ubiquitous response (God allowed) when there is no right/precise answer is not the answer that solves the dilemma.
  15. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in JUST HOW BIG OF A DEBACLE, WAS THE PROPHESY OF 1975?   
    @Space Merchant becomes a JW at heart.  He uses the JW way of 'lumping all non JWs together'
    Shame on you SM, I thought you were better than that. 
    I could put it in capital letters for you I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT THE GB OR THE ORG  STATED THE END WOULD BE IN 1975.  I do hope that is clear enough for you. 
    Now you said  you responded to the remark about 1975, 
    I think a whole list of us responded to remarks about 1975.  BUT I never made any statement that the GB / Org said 1975 would be Armageddon..
    However we do ALL know things that the Leaders of the JWs said in the mid to late 60's and possibly early 70's. 
    SM, the simple question is, Do you think the Bible Students / JWs / Watchtower Soc' / CCJW  have made continuous false predictions from Russell onwards ? 
    I think it has been proven beyond doubt that the Leaders from Russell onward have not served God, but have raced ahead, trying to be clever, trying to run ahead of God and Christ, and in as much as saying 'The Master is delaying'.  
    If they are not saying such then why are they running ahead ?  Neither God nor Christ wants representatives that make false statements, tells deliberate lies and loads heavy burdens onto the shoulders of true Christians. 
    The Israelites had to be content with mana in the wilderness. So it should be for God's servants now.  The spiritual food from the Anointed to the earthly class should be just basic.  Meetings could be giving praise to God, not expecting some wonderful special dish to be served up.  Look at what happened when those Israelites demanded more.  
    Were the Leaders of the Watchtower / JWs frightened that they would loose their power, loose congregants, loose donations ???   And the GB have learnt nothing from the past mistakes. Nothing. 
     
  16. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Jehovah’s Witnesses never made a direct prediction that the end would come in 2000?   
    Quote @Srecko Sostar So, the meaning of the concept and the interpretation of words; "Be awake, be on watch", needs to be changed. And JW's need another/different "Watchman".
    I truly believe that different 'Watchman' will be the True Anointed remnant'   The spiritual JEW that the 'ten men' cling on to, saying 'We will go with you because we know god is with you'.  Zechariah 8 : 23
    This is what the LORD Almighty says: "In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, 'Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.'"
    Quote @Anna Of course I do not think mistakes are from God or Jesus. But they obviously allowed them.
    God and Christ allow all false religions to do as they please right now, and have done so in the past.  So why do you think the 'mistakes' of the Watchtower / JWs is any different ?  
    Quote @Anna By whatever misguided means this state of anticipation was achieved throughout decades by the organization is not the question here. The fact is it was achieved and still is being achieved. No one can accuse the JWs of not being "on the watch". 
    No, what was achieved and is still achieved is FEAR.  FEAR of being disfellowshipped, cast out, losing all,
    Remember the lie, 'You must be a baptised JW to be saved'  Then add to that another lie,  'Armageddon is 'definitely coming in your life time'.  What result do you get ? You get people having to carry a heavy load and living in fear of being disfellowshipped.  
    The Org used to say that is was the Ark, and if you are not in the Ark you will die.  Threat after threat after threat. Scaremongering. And you call it 'Keeping on the watch'. 
  17. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Jehovah’s Witnesses never made a direct prediction that the end would come in 2000?   
    Dealing with the these words of Jesus as all religions try to do, and WTJWorg in particular, in a way that the end is always expected over and over again in every decade, is a complete failure. But, on the other hand, it is a fairly successful method of keeping people in a state of anticipation.
    Watchman would have an excuse to raise tensions about Armageddon if that really happened within a time-frame that would be “normal”. Just for the sake of parallel, we could take the example of Jeremiah’s prophecy of "70 years" of exile, from Israel. The Jews of that time could expect change when the prophesied years were completed. So it was normal for the people of that time to get married, to have children, to plant vineyards and build houses in such long period of years. 
    If there was a WTJWorg Corporation then what would they do? They would have real estate and they would buy and sell properties. Today WTJWorg doing exactly that in all this 140 years period despite warnings how "end is near/close/imminent/within few months/within few years/to the end of the century"..., and so on.
    Keeping people in a state of alert and caution for 140 years means that something is definitely wrong. All this time GB has repeatedly given advice that it is not good for JW to get married, have children, to get an education, because Armageddon will come soon and it could be bad for their spiritual safety.
    JW members, most of them, because of the continuous spiritual and mental spasm that "tomorrow" come to an end failed to be "normal" in their plans, which are typical for people. Even if we take the example of Noah and the people of that time, getting married, building houses and planting vineyards, for a period of 120 years, was not the reason for the coming of the Flood.
    What would have happened if all JWs had obeyed the instructions given to them by the WTJWorg in 1941? No one would marry, no one would have children. How many JWs would there be today if to this day no one in WTJWorg is married and has no children, because they decided to put "Kingdom interests first"?
    So, the meaning of the concept and the interpretation of words; "Be awake, be on watch", needs to be changed. And JW's need another/different "Watchman".
     
  18. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in Jehovah’s Witnesses never made a direct prediction that the end would come in 2000?   
    Am I wrong in calling your leaders, "watchmen"?
    After the Kingdom was established, Jesus appointed a small group of men to serve as the faithful slave. (Matt. 24:45-47) Since then, the faithful slave, now known as the Governing Body, has done the work of a watchman. It takes the lead not only in warning of “the day of vengeance” but also in proclaiming “the year of Jehovah’s goodwill.”—Isa. 61:2; see also 2 Corinthians 6:1, 2. Pure Worship p. 127-128
    Again, WHO has appointed your watchmen?  
    "But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him."  Deut 18:20-22
    Scripturally, anyone has the right to reject your watchmen, since they have proven themselves  as not appointed by God.  We are not to be afraid of them.  For the GB to disfellowship someone for following scripture, shows that they are spiritually immoral harlots.  
    Rev 13:11,12; 17:1,2
     
  19. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in Jehovah’s Witnesses never made a direct prediction that the end would come in 2000?   
    Oh right.  The barking dog scenario.  In other words, when God appoints a watchman, that one is bound to make mistake after mistake after mistake...when sounding the alarm.  And God and Jesus overlook the mistakes, simply because you believe the organization continues to be guided by God.
    But that's not how God's word describes a watchman appointed by Him.
    "Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the people of Israel; so hear the word I speak and you must give them warning from Me."   Ezek 3:17
    "If the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle?" (1Cor.14:8)
    None of the Armageddon calls by the organization proved to be...
    A clear call
    From God
    WHO has appointed your watchmen?  It wasn't God.  
     
     
  20. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Jehovah’s Witnesses never made a direct prediction that the end would come in 2000?   
    @Anna says They (God and Christ) are doing that; through the scriptures.
    No Anna, your GB and it's Org are the ones doing it by misusing scripture. 
    Do you honestly think God and Christ would deliberately mislead millions of people that want to serve them ? 
    Do you really think Almighty God through Jesus Christ, gave all those lies to Russell,  Rutherford, and other Leaders of the Watchtower society ? 
  21. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Jehovah’s Witnesses never made a direct prediction that the end would come in 2000?   
    Title of topic - Jehovah’s Witnesses never made a direct prediction that the end would come in 2000?
    In this or some other wording, it really doesn't matter. Because all people who made examination about 140 years of WTJWorg teachings, except majority past and today JW members, clearly see how GB doctrines making never ending predictions about "the end". 
    Whether they are talking/speaking/predicting about a certain year or a limited period of time, or trying to confirm the coming of the end with world events, or the proximity of the end is linked to the life span of a specific group of people, GB always have one and the same desire; to be the first in the world to say; now comes the end..... and then they wait to see if it will finally happen to them .... this time.
  22. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to AlanF in Jehovah’s Witnesses never made a direct prediction that the end would come in 2000?   
    Anna said:
    Actually, and in context, and in looking over what I said, I said both. I was also a bit vague several times. Sorry for not being precise.
    You've already read the quotes from WTS literature that mentioned "our twentieth century", "the turn of the century", and "the end of the century". Those obviously mean "in or by the year 2000". Another WTS piece said "for the year 2000", which can mean in or by. In various comments I shortened all of these claims to "in 2000" for brevity.
    Here again is what I have posted:
    <<<<
    << Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom. >> -- "The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah"-How? - 1971
    << And if the wicked system of this world survived until the turn of the century, which is highly improbable in view of world trends and the fulfillment of Bible prophecy, there would still be survivors of the World War I generation. However, the fact that their number is dwindling is one more indication that “the conclusion of the system of things” is moving fast toward its end. >> -- October 15, 1980 Watchtower, p. 31
    << It has been thrilling to see the fulfillment of Jesus’ sign showing that the Kingdom was established in the heavens in that momentous year 1914. And Jesus has told us to rejoice at seeing the dark storm clouds of Armageddon gathering since that time. He has told us that the “generation” of 1914—the year that the sign began to be fulfilled—”will by no means pass away until all these things occur.” (Matthew 24:34) Some of that “generation” could survive until the end of the century. But there are many indications that “the end” is much closer than that! >> -- March 1, 1984 Watchtower, pp. 18-19
    << The Time for a Change Is Near!
    Carole, from France, has a “marvelous hope” and foresees, for the near future, “something marvelous—not at all like the world we live in.” Samuel, a 15-year-old youth from the same country, also believes in a complete change: “For the year 2000, I visualize a world transformed into a beautiful paradise! But I don’t think that either the present world or its rulers will live to see that day. . . We are living in the last days of the system of things.” Ruth, a German girl of 16, also expresses her confidence in these changes: “I know I’m not smart enough to change the world and make things run right. Only Jehovah, our Creator, can and will do that soon.” >> November 8, 1986 Awake!, pp. 7-8
    The Watchtower Society has been making claims like that since its beginning. Not one claim has come true. It taught that 1914 would bring "the end". It taught that 1918, 1920 and 1925 would bring Armageddon. It taught that Armageddon would come shortly after 1942. Then 1975 was really going to be "IT". Then 2000. After that, virtually every year after 2000.
    But you're deliberately missing my point: A long history of failed predictions of specific dates for "the end" (1914, 1918, 1925, 1975, 2000) plus a history of generally false predictions prove that JW leaders have no actual understanding of whatever the Bible really says or of world events. By the same token, neither do you.
    Let's see: we have 1914, 1918, 1920, 1925, 1941, 1975, 2000, and Real Soon Now.
    Um, I was alive for 1975, 2000 and Real Soon Now. My mother was alive for them and 1941. Old Freddie Franz was alive for all of those false predictions.
    The prediction for 2000 was made at various times from the 1970s through 2000 itself. Real Soon Now started about 1914 and continues.
    I heard several JWs in the 1980s talking about 2000. In online forums in the late 1990s, many JW apologists threatened: "You'll get yours when 2000 rolls around!"
    The point, Einstein, is that these JWs did not make this nonsense up for themselves, but read the predictions for 2000 in Watchtower publications. Do a little looking on the jwfacts website and you'll find some quotes. Or read some in my response to Anna above.
    Are you really this stupid? 1941, 1975, 2000 and Real Soon Now are certainly within peoples' lifetimes. 1975 is NOT arguable, as the links I posted prove.
    Unfortunately, JW leaders' counsel on that has often been accompanied by predictions of specific years to watch out for: 1914, 1918, 1920, 1925, 1941, 1975, 2000.
    I don't believe I said in 2000, but by 2000. If not, that's what I should have said, because that's what the first two references explicitly say: "a work that would be completed in our century" and "within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin". Can't get any clearer than that.
    >>>>
    Nope. I already posted two links proving my claim:
    https://www.critiquesonthewatchtower.org/old-articles/2006/02/part-3-statements-concerning-1918-1925.html
    https://www.critiquesonthewatchtower.org/old-articles/2006/02/1975-new-info.html
    Didn't you read them? Probably not, so I present here some information drawn from them.
    The quotes below prove that the Society dogmatically taught that Adam and Eve were created at the end of the 6th creative day in 4026 BCE, that the 7th creative day began then, that 6,000 years of human history would end in 1975, and that the Millennial rule of Christ would be the last 1,000 years of the 7th day. These dogmatic statements lead only to the conclusion that the Battle of Armageddon would have to be over by late 1975.
    More graphically, after the 6th creative day ends with Adam and Eve's creation in 4026 BCE, the Society's timeline is:
    |4026 BCE + 6000 -> 1975 CE + 1000 = 7000 years| ...-------/\--------------------------------------------/\--------------- 6th day-->||<----------------- 7th day ---------------->||<--Millennium--> What the Watchtower Society said:
    The October 8, 1966 issue of Awake! contained the article "How Much Longer Will It Be?" In answer to the question "when will God bring an end to wickedness?", under the subheading "6,000 Years Completed in 1975", it reasoned that the millennium would be the last 1,000 years of a 7,000-year rest day of God. On pages 19-20 it said:
    << The Bible shows that when God began to shape the earth for human habitation, he worked for six "days," or time periods. From the indications in God's Word, each was apparently 7,000 years in length. Then Genesis 2:22 states, Jehovah "proceeded to rest on the seventh day from all his work that he had made." This seventh day, God's rest day, has progressed nearly 6,000 years, and there is still the 1,000-year reign of Christ to go before its end. (Rev. 20:3, 7) This seventh 1,000-year period of human existence could well be likened to a great sabbath day, pictured by the sabbath day God commanded ancient Israel to keep after working for six days. (Ex. 20:8-10; 2 Pet. 3:8) After six thousand years of toil and bondage to sin, sickness, death and Satan, mankind is due to enjoy a rest and is in dire need of a rest. (Heb. 4:1-11) Hence, the fact that we are nearing the end of the first 6,000 years of man's existence is of great significance.
    Does God's rest day parallel the time man has been on earth since his creation? Apparently so. From the most reliable investigations of Bible chronology, harmonizing with many accepted dates of secular history, we find that Adam was created in the autumn of the year 4026 B.C.E. Sometime in that year Eve could well have been created, directly after which God's rest day commenced. In what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of God's rest day come to an end? The year 1975. This is worthy of notice, particularly in view of the fact that the "last days" began in 1914, and that the physical facts of our day in fulfillment of prophecy mark this as the last generation of this wicked world. So we can expect the immediate future to be filled with thrilling events for those who rest their faith in God and his promises. It means that within relatively few years we will witness the fulfillment of the remaining prophecies that have to do with the "time of the end." >>
    The above material was not dogmatically certain about 1975 being the date for Armageddon, but it was nearly so. Later material became more dogmatic.
    The Watchtower, May 1, 1968, said on page 271, paragraph 4:
    << Thus, Adam's naming of the animals and his realizing that he needed a counterpart would have occupied only a brief time after his creation. Since it was also Jehovah's purpose for man to multiply and fill the earth, it is logical that he would create Eve soon after Adam, perhaps just a few weeks or months later in the same year, 4026 B.C.E. After her creation, God's rest day, the seventh period, immediately followed. >>
    The study question for this paragraph then asked, "When were Adam and Eve created?", not "When were Adam and Eve possibly created?"
    Paragraphs 5 and 6 then said:
    << After [Eve's] creation, God's rest day, the seventh period, immediately followed. Therefore, God's seventh day and the time man has been on earth apparently run parallel. >>
    Apparently run parallel? Based on what? That's a fully dogmatic claim. Continuing:
    << To calculate where man is in the stream of time relative to God's seventh day of 7,000 years, we need to determine how long a time has elapsed from the year of Adam and Eve's creation in 4026 B.C.E...
    The seventh day of the Jewish week, the sabbath, would well picture the final 1,000-year reign of God's kingdom under Christ when mankind would be uplifted from 6,000 years of sin and death. (Rev. 20:6) Hence, when Christians note from God's timetable the approaching end of 6,000 years of human history, it fills them with anticipation. Particularly is this true because the great sign of the "last days" has been in the course of fulfillment since the beginning of the "time of the end" in 1914. >>
    The October 8, 1968 Awake! dogmatically stated on page 14:
    << According to reliable Bible chronology Adam and Eve were created in 4026 B.C.E. >>
    The 1969 book Aid to Bible Understanding dogmatically indicated that Adam and Eve were created in the same year. On page 333, under the subject "Chronology," it said that the time from Adam's creation to the birth of Seth was 130 years, and on page 538, under the subject "Eve," it said that at the age of 130 Eve gave birth to Seth. Since this book was published as an authoritative, encyclopedia-like reference (Insight on the Scriptures is mostly identical), these comments again assured the reader that the Society was certain that Adam and Eve were created in the same year, and implied that it was certain that "everything would be over" by 1975.
    The 1969 booklet The Approaching Peace of a Thousand Years was also definite about 1975. On pages 25-26 it dogmatically said:
    << More recently earnest researchers of the Holy Bible have made a recheck of its chronology. According to their calculations the six millenniums of mankind's life on earth would end in the mid-seventies. Thus the seventh millennium from man's creation by Jehovah God would begin within less than ten years...
    In order for the Lord Jesus Christ to be "Lord even of the sabbath day," his thousand-year reign would have to be the seventh in a series of thousand-year periods or millenniums. >>
    The 1974 book God's "Eternal Purpose" Now Triumphing for Man's Good shows that the idea that the 7th "creative day" began in 4026 BCE was by this time a well-established doctrine. Without reticence, page 51 displays the subtitle "'Evening' of Seventh Creative 'Day' Begins, 4026 B.C.E."
    The December 15, 1974 Watchtower (pp. 764-766) dogmatically states, not that 1975 may be a critical year, but that it is a critical year:
    << Now, as the critical year of 1975 enters, it may well be asked: Has the Most High God of prophecy made a name for himself? The answer is self-evident, Yes! By whom? Not by Christendom or by Jewry, but by Jehovah's Christian witnesses!' >>
    The Watchtower, August 15, 1968, spoke at length about the significance of 1975 on pages 488-501. The article "The Book of Truthful Historical Dates" discussed details again, on page 488:
    << Do we know that the seventh year from now will conclude the 6,000th year since Adam was created? And if we live to that year 1975, what should we expect to happen? >>
    In this Watchtower, the article "Why Are You Looking Forward To 1975?" raised a good deal of anticipation when it said on page 494:
    << What about all this talk concerning the year 1975? Lively discussions, some based on speculation, have burst into flame during recent months among serious students of the Bible. [which students, and who started the fire?] Their interest has been kindled by the belief that 1975 will mark the end of 6,000 years of human history since Adam's creation. The nearness of such an important date indeed fires the imagination and presents unlimited possibilities for discussion.
    ... of what benefit is this information to us today?... why should we be any more interested in the date of Adam's creation than in the birth of King Tut?... in the fall of the year 1975, a little over seven years from now... it will be 6,000 years since the creation of Adam. >>
    Since the Society had already dogmatically stated that Adam and Eve were both created in 4026 BCE -- the end of the 6th creative day and beginning of the 7th -- the 6,000 years since then have all been during the 7th creative day, and per the above quotes, the Millennial Reign of Christ must begin in 1975.
    In the following, note the sense of urgency, and the implication that 6,000 years is a figure of special significance. Continuing on page 499:
    << Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man's existence coincides with the sabbathlike thousand-year reign of Christ. If these two periods run parallel with each other as to the calendar year, it will not be by mere chance or accident but will be according to Jehovah's loving and timely purposes. [What can we say of this from the perspective of 2019?] Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man's existence on earth. It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah's seventh creative "day." Why not? Because after his creation Adam lived some time during the "sixth day," which unknown amount of time would need to be subtracted from Adam's 930 years, to determine when the sixth seven-thousand-year period or "day" ended, and how long Adam lived into the "seventh day." And yet the end of that sixth creative "day" could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam's creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years. >>
    While this quote contains some cautionary language, the last sentence harks back to the Society's dogmatic statements that Adam and Eve were both created in 4026 BCE. Naturally, the attentive JW would interpret "may involve" as "will involve".
    But one thing is clear: such a combination of dogmatic and cautionary statements is sure to produce confusion in the minds of listeners, and in the JW mind, such confusion is resolved in favor of the dogmatic statements.
    By 1967 expectations about 1975 were high. The following is taken from a talk entitled "Serving with Everlasting Life In View," given at a circuit assembly in the spring of 1967 in Sheboygan, Wisconsin by an official of the Society, a District Servant named Charles Sinutko (see https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/1975.php for audio). The speaker emphasized the nearness of Armageddon and specifically said that it would come before 1975. Speaking of the world to come after Armageddon, he said:
    << Well, now, who will be there, of us here tonight? For the Society has made application of this scripture, in pointing out that those of us among Jehovah's Witnesses that are not regularly associating with his people, without good cause, such as being flat on our back, will not be in the new order. And we're the ones that are going to come around when the doors close, and say 'I want in now. Sir, open to us!' And Jesus will have to say, 'I'm sorry, I don't even recognize you.' Now wouldn't that be an awful thing. Do you see now why the Society implores us, year in and year out, the same old thing, 'Brothers, get in the flock. Don't let any excuses get in our way. Nothing of any nature. There's only one thing that's going to count when that time comes, and that's that we are inside.' And we hope that all of us here tonight are going to listen to the Society's imploring. We're going to listen to the agonizing entreaty, 'Brothers get in!', because they know what's coming. And it's coming fast -- and don't wait till '75. The door is going to be shut before then. >>
    The May 1, 1968 Watchtower continued this stimulation of anticipation. Using much the same arguments as above, it dogmatically said on page 272:
    << The immediate future is certain to be filled with climactic events, for this old system is nearing its complete end. Within a few years at most the final parts of Bible prophecy relative to these "last days" will undergo fulfillment, resulting in the liberation of surviving mankind into Christ's glorious 1,000-year reign. What difficult days, but, at the same time, what grand days are just ahead! >>
    Similarly, the October 8, 1968 Awake!, on page 13, dogmatically emphasized the shortness of the time:
    << The fact that fifty-four years of the period called the "last days" have already gone by is highly significant. It means that only a few years, at most, remain before the corrupt system of things dominating the earth is destroyed by God. >>
    How many years are "a few"? When this was said, it was seven. Today, in 2019, we're already 51 years 'few'.
    Nope. I'm interpreting what they said as they meant it to be interpreted.
    Why do you think the Society quoted rank and file JWs about the year 2000 as it did? Just for the hell of it?
         
    So far so good. But being alert is quite different from making specifc predictions, as if you know for certain some date or short time period. And you've ignored Jesus' warning against trying to figure out when the end was to come or was about to come.
    Matthew 24 is explicit that those who claim to know when “the time of the end” has arrived or will arrive, in advance of the appearance of “the sign of the Son of Man in heaven”, are false teachers:
    << 42 Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming ... 44 Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. >>
    Obviously, anyone who claims he knows, when Jesus specifically stated that his disciples could not know, cannot honestly claim to be one of Jesus’ disciples. Luke 21:8 confirms this with the admonition, “do not follow him”.
    You and the Society disagree with the Bible on this. Why?
    You're neglecting what "sign" means in the Gospel accounts. It does not mean what Watchtower tradition claims. Read Matthew 24 and see if you can find where Jesus' answer to his disciples says anything about a sign. It's not until verse 30 that he mentions a sign:
    << 29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity. >>
    So Jesus said that the sign the disciples asked about was "the sign of the Son of man" that appears "in heaven". It will not be invisible, but will be so spectacular that "all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." Therefore no one would need preachers to tell them that this sign was about to appear -- its appearance would be plainly evident.
    This sign was not the appearance of war, earthquakes, famine and pestilence mentioned in verses 6-7, and in the parallel accounts in Mark and Luke. Rather, those things were what Jesus warned not to interpret as signs that "the end" was about to happen.
    Following 24:31 we read this:
    << 32 “Now learn this illustration from the fig tree: Just as soon as its young branch grows tender and sprouts its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 Likewise also you, when you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors. >>
    What are "all these things"? Obviously, the "sign of the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" -- not the earthquakes, etc., that Jesus warned against interpreting as signs. Obviously, then, when this heavenly sign appears, Jesus' followers would clearly know that "he is near at the doors", whatever that means.
    Next, emphasizing that it was impossible for anyone to know in advance, by calculation or by signs, when "the sign of the Son of man" was to appear "in the heavens", Jesus said (English Standard Version😞
    << 36 “But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. 37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. 42 Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. >>
    I don't see how all that could be any clearer: don't try to predict when the end will come, because you cannot know it.
    The Society claims that its prophetic speculations have been proved true by various events after 1914, such as a supposed 20x increase in earthquakes, and unprecedented increases in war, famine and pestilence. All of those claims have been individually disproved.
    And as I have repeatedly pointed out, and you and all the other JW defenders on this board have ignored, we have today an unprecedented population explosion. Had the supposed huge increases in worldwide killers taken place, we would have had a population implosion after 1914. Yet we see an increase from about 2 billion to 8 billion. How do you explain that?
    You'll have to argue with Jesus about this. I did not write the words of warning above.
    No matter what you believe, Jesus' words warning against trying to predict "the end" still apply.
    Nope. You didn't hear the fear and upset in his voice. He was trying to excuse the JW organization for its long history of false prophecy in predicting "the end".
  23. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Anna in Jehovah’s Witnesses never made a direct prediction that the end would come in 2000?   
    Yes, I think that's the idea.
  24. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to The Librarian in JUST HOW BIG OF A DEBACLE, WAS THE PROPHESY OF 1975?   
    That is not how the law works in the USA. If there was a plea bargain, arraignment or even a plea entered there would be a record of that. 
    You are making stuff up out of thin air at this point. All that can be seen at this point is the arrest and the charges.
  25. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in CCJW established 21st August 2000.   
    Religious Order of Jehovah's Witnesses, New York, incorporated in 2000 for administration of full-time preaching activities.
    I learned one detail just now while searching internet. WT Society is Company, Business, Corporation. And as such they uses all possible ways to do business as optimally as possible. Creating new corporations under the management of the Mother Corporation is part of the business.
    IRS using this and other terminology and WTJWorg accepts it. In the same manner as GB and Elders speaking about themselves how they are CLERGY :))) In  JW congregations, Christendom is Clergy, and they are Elders, but in the Courts they are Clergy too, because they want "secular government" to see them as CLERGY. And to have same status as Christendom Clergy.
    - https://www.irs.gov/publications/p517#en_US_2016_publink1000255884
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