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Srecko Sostar

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  1. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Haiti Ten Years Later—Is Nothing Fixed?   
    I am glad that someone helping people in need. But, because of your unappropriate way of how involving our names here, i will give you back (you ask for this) in this way: That doesn’t surprise us, for even Satan transforms himself to appear as an angel of light! - 2.Cor.11
     
  2. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Well at least the plaintiff could be miserable in luxury  ..  But I agree with you that millions of $$$ in payouts are too high. So who is it that decides on the amount ? Because as you seem to be saying, it disputes the genuineness of the claim.  But is there ever an apology on behalf of the Watchtower / JW Org ? 
    One other point of course is, would a qualified lawyer be prepared to fight a case for a Victim if there was no financial reward for the lawyer. Lawyers are part of the devil's world, and money seems to be what drives them. You cannot expect an experienced lawyer to work for no pay. And it needs very experienced lawyers to fight the GB and their lawyers, because the GB's lawyers play dirty.  
    Also, you cannot expect the devil's world to work toward preventing child sexual abuse can you ?  Its kinda funny how @Arauna follows 'world conditions' and uses them as signs of the times, whereas you seem to be expecting signs of improvement to worldly moral standards. But you know things will get worse not better. This is why JW Org should be compared to God's high standards, not compared to the devil's world. It would be too easy to say JW Org is better than the devil's world, but it would prove nothing. 
    ========================================================
    New comment. 
    @the Sower of Seed  Said :  A person may imagine sexual scenarios, is this the Christian thing to do?
    @Arauna   said : He was giving an example.... so what are u getting åt? 
    Members of the Governing Body, it seems, were Homosexual.  It also seems, if information is correct, that a member of Bethel was sexually assaulted by such a one.  There have been other reports on here, of immoral behavior at Bethel.
    Those GB members would have contributed to Watchtower articles. Also it gives reason to believe that the Writing department personnel might not be exactly worthy of producing information on God;s behalf.  With 'pillowgate' and other examples it does not look good for the GB / Org / Bethel in USA. 
    Unfortunately i don't keep all the info i read on this forum, and those that have given info' might not wish to confirm the info they originally gave, so I only have the remnants of the knowledge in my head.  But the information I have read on here was obviously given voluntarily by those that had worked / possibly do work at Bethel, so there is no reason for me to disbelieve it.  
  3. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Just the fact that child abuse exists in an organization that declares it is inspired by Holy Spirit – “spirit-directed” -  is evil. (Rev 13:15)  For any JW leaders and members as well, who believe this outcome as beneficial - "good" -  toward upholding the governmental procedures of “God’s organization”,  is also evil. 
    Woe to those who call evil good
    and good evil,
    who substitute darkness for light
    and light for darkness,
    who substitute bitter for sweet
    and sweet for bitter.
    21 Woe to those who are wise in their own opinion
    and clever in their own sight.
    22 Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine,
    who are fearless at mixing beer,
    23 who acquit the guilty for a bribe
    and deprive the innocent of justice.
    24 Therefore, as a tongue of fire consumes straw
    and as dry grass shrivels in the flame,
    so their roots will become like something rotten
    and their blossoms will blow away like dust,
    for they have rejected
    the instruction of the Lord of Hosts,
    and they have despised
    the word of the Holy One of Israel.  Isa 5:20-24
  4. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in 1914   
    Right, so maybe they mean that with God's help, Christ's battle tactic from heaven, is to situate garrisons all over the earth? (1 Cor 15:25)  
    What an impudent statement the man made in the video!
    It reminds me of this guy:
    The devil took him to a high place and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in an instant. 6 The devil said to him, “I will give you all the power and glory of these kingdoms. All of it has been given to me, and I give it to anyone I please. 7 So if you will worship me, all this will be yours.”  Luke 4:5-7
     
    "The God who made the world and everything in it—He is Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in shrines made by hands. 25 Neither is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives everyone life and breath and all things. 26 From one man He has made every nationality to live over the whole earth and has determined their appointed times and the boundaries of where they live. 27 He did this so they might seek God, and perhaps they might reach out and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. 28 For in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ 29 Being God’s offspring then, we shouldn’t think that the divine nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image fashioned by human art and imagination.  Acts 17:24-29
    http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-kingdom-when.html 
  5. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    But if the GB / Bethel / Circuit Overseers / Elders et al, are allowed to tell half the Org and still pretend it is confidential then that is the biggest immoral / dishonest / unloving / merciless thing ever.  It is a loophole of the worst kind.  
    The case may be ten years old, but that does not make it any less important in God's / Christ's opinion surely. Surely THEY would want justice and mercy done ? 
    As JTR (I think it was ) said, the W/t / JW Org is run by the accountants and lawyers .
    It is not God's Organisation because it proves to be man's. 
    @Srecko Sostar  The best option, for Corporation, would be some sort of problems and persecution toward members, without reaching too much for money of  organization, without doing financial harm to the corporation. 
    Sadly there is much persecution in Russia. There may be persecution elsewhere but I'm not aware of it. In Russia though it has been financial as well as physical. 
    But it annoys me when JWs pretend that the CSA problems are part of persecution, because in truth they are caused by the dishonesty in the Org itself. 
    In my opinion, whatever is printed in the W/t or in the Shepherding the Flock book, nothing has changed. It will still be hidden, and victims will still be shunned and called liars. JWs will still believe the Elders above the victims. Contacting Bethel / Head Office etc, where those brothers do not really know the people involved / the Elders involved / or the true situation, but can only go by their book of rules, will not bring about justice and mercy that God and Christ require.
  6. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Haven't you heard from the video Srecko posted under "1914"?  God's Kingdom is ruling!  Apparently he has chosen these lawyers and accountants to fight the fine fight!  The funny thing is, this "Jehovah" is not powerful enough to keep his members out of prison in countries that fight against him.  He's not powerful enough to win all the court cases that arise against his Kingdom rule.   He's not powerful enough to "hold down the fort", but he is an expert at building them.    
  7. Like
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Witness in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    .... to protect financial assets, if  i may say.
    Because there is no more need to protect Organization in sense of dignity and "to not drag God's name through the mud". CSA problem is strong in so many Institutions, religious and non-religious.
    In that,  from secular point of view, JW organization is like every other organization. And they (world) have no need to pay more attention to WTJWorg than to every other religion or institution of any sort.
    What problem is : JW members and Management are worried about how worldly/secular people will look at them and what they will think about them - and that is, in JW' minds as: Only True Religion and God's Earthly Organization.
    In this aspect , from JW point of view,  JW leaders found it very important to "protect organization" as the most holy in the world. Image of Organization have to be without spot, mainly in the view of members, who have to bring themselves into thinking how World have to see WTJWorg as only true and clean organization, in one hand, and because of that, this same World have to want to destroy and persecute WTJWorg, in second hand.
    One part of JW mind need some sort of "recognition"  made by satan' World, and other part of JW mind in the same time wish to be "persecuted" in some form, as proof that they are and belong to only true religion. 
    It comes to the point where self-realization (individual and as organization) about the correctness of one's own path is not enough. A dose of martyrdom is required. But again, not so high a dose as to cause harm in the financial stability of the Corporation. The best option, for Corporation, would be some sort of problems and persecution toward members, without reaching too much for money of  organization, without doing financial harm to the corporation. 
  8. Haha
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in 1914   
    Jesus: "The kingdom of heaven  ...." ??!!
  9. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    .... to protect financial assets, if  i may say.
    Because there is no more need to protect Organization in sense of dignity and "to not drag God's name through the mud". CSA problem is strong in so many Institutions, religious and non-religious.
    In that,  from secular point of view, JW organization is like every other organization. And they (world) have no need to pay more attention to WTJWorg than to every other religion or institution of any sort.
    What problem is : JW members and Management are worried about how worldly/secular people will look at them and what they will think about them - and that is, in JW' minds as: Only True Religion and God's Earthly Organization.
    In this aspect , from JW point of view,  JW leaders found it very important to "protect organization" as the most holy in the world. Image of Organization have to be without spot, mainly in the view of members, who have to bring themselves into thinking how World have to see WTJWorg as only true and clean organization, in one hand, and because of that, this same World have to want to destroy and persecute WTJWorg, in second hand.
    One part of JW mind need some sort of "recognition"  made by satan' World, and other part of JW mind in the same time wish to be "persecuted" in some form, as proof that they are and belong to only true religion. 
    It comes to the point where self-realization (individual and as organization) about the correctness of one's own path is not enough. A dose of martyrdom is required. But again, not so high a dose as to cause harm in the financial stability of the Corporation. The best option, for Corporation, would be some sort of problems and persecution toward members, without reaching too much for money of  organization, without doing financial harm to the corporation. 
  10. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Witness in 1914   
    Jesus: "The kingdom of heaven  ...." ??!!
  11. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    You should speak with some of the Watchtower attorneys. I don't think you will ever again claim that they would like to give the victim compensation.
  12. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Witness in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    THE ZALKIN LAW FIRM, P.C.  (facebook)
    We have received inquiries and concerns about a Montana Supreme Court's decision to reverse a $35 Million judgment against the Jehovah's Witnesses. What people should know is that this opinion is limited to the facts of that case and to that court's interpretation of the law of Montana and does not establish precedent in other jurisdictions. We know the lawyers who represent the victim in that case and in our opinion they did a fine job. Unfortunately, based on our reading of the Montana Supreme Court's opinion, the Court was mislead by testimony offered by the JWs in house expert in their child abuse policies and practices. The case hinged on whether the way in which the JWs handle reports of child sexual abuse falls within an exception to Montana's clergy mandated reporting law. Relying heavily on the testimony of Dave Chappel from the Service Department, the Montana Supreme Court concluded that the policies and practices of the JWs is to keep such information confidential, even if it is shared between elders of the congregation and elders of the Service Department, and even if elders are free to disclose that information to law enforcement should they decide to do so, thereby entitling the JWs to the confidentiality exception to the obligation of clergy to report suspicions of child sexual abuse. In essence, the Court's conclusion is that where a religious organization says it is required to keep such information confidential as a tenant of its religion, despite evidence to the contrary, the court is going to accept what it says as controlling.
    The JWs also argue that civil courts should not second guess how they deal with reports of child sexual abuse because doing so violates the JWs 1st Amendment right to the free exercise of its religion. That argument has failed in dozens of cases. The U.S. Supreme Court has recognized that civil courts can enforce neutral laws that are intended to apply to everyone equally. Laws that protect children from child abusers are neutral and not targeted to any one religion.
    Over the course of the past decade of litigating cases against the JWs we have obtained numerous court opinions that have found the opposite of what the Montana Supreme Court determined to be the case.
    We feel very badly for the victim in this case. What this case shows very clearly, is that the JWs continue to place secrecy and protection of known child molesters above the safety of children. Shame on them.
  13. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to JW Insider in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    That "third" person appears (to me) to be someone who helped write or translate a letter for the penitent, or who helped translate the person's voice or words from another language (including sign language).
    It was interesting that the same site you quote also included:
    It’s important to understand the difference between clergy privilege and the duty of confidentiality. Privilege simply means the information cannot be shared in court. The duty of confidentiality applies in all contexts and is an ethical matter every minister must navigate carefully. A minister’s duty of confidentiality is breached when they disclose confidences to anyone, anywhere. However, there may be times when it is appropriate to share confidential information, under extreme circumstances where people may be killed or severely injured. There are only nine cases in the history of this country where a minister was sued for breaching the duty of confidentiality. Of those, only three of the cases found the minister civilly liable for sharing confidences. In the other six cases, the courts concluded there was no duty under the circumstances for the minister to keep the confidentiality. So it can be concluded that ministers who decide to share confidential information should not in most cases be held personally liable from a legal standpoint, but they certainly won’t be held legally liable for not sharing. The exception to this rule is child abuse. In 41 states clergy are mandatory reporters of suspected or known child abuse.
    It gives the impression that it's rare that a minister would ever get in trouble for revealing a confidentiality, but that they would never get in trouble for breaching the confidentiality of child abuse by letting the authorities know.
    When these laws are invoked to say it was OK for Witness ministers to keep the child abuse secret, it's contrary to the spirit of these current laws about privilege and confidentiality in child abuse cases. They are intended to protect the child, and make sure that the minister does not get in trouble for revealing confidentiality. But we still seem to be asking for these rules to be invoked to protect the organization.
  14. Thanks
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Anna in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Confidentiality: "There are two views held by state courts regarding confidentiality as it pertains to clergy privilege. In two-thirds of the states, a communication is considered confidential if made privately and not intended for further disclosure except to other persons present for the purpose of the communication. In one-third of the states, privileged communication means a communication made in confidence only to the minister, with no third person present".
    Taken from: https://www.agfinancial.org/blog/bid103391church-liability-clergy-privilege-confidentiality-and-reporting/
     
  15. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    If Montana have such law than that is obviously lawful how Supreme Court of Montana found elements that released elders and WT and Congregation from responsibility of such report. I am not expert to read documents in such a way and to see what is what into details.
    What is interesting, again, from several cases and Court documents known to public, is very strong interest of WT Society and JW elders to be considered in front, before secular authorities, as clergy, priesthood with all legal rights as Catholic clergy. In fact WT lawyers using Catholic clergy as example, how they want to be treated in the exactly same way.  
    WT Society, elders and regular members have history of preaching against all religions and theirs priesthood who are instruments of satan, and how these churches and their priesthood lies to people and teach falsehoods. But now WT Society asking, in fact demands to be treated exactly in the same way, to be in same level of "spiritual position, authority" that have Catholic clergy. That is something disgusting, for observers. When taking such position, JW elders drinking "same wine of adultery" with their Catholic "colleagues".      
    JW church has not "confession" doctrine  as Catholic church has. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989217 Why? Because, JW church had not clergy ....until now :))) 
  16. Upvote
  17. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Quote @TrueTomHarley "..  because the pattern elsewhere is that the leaders of organizations, religious or otherwise, are the abusers themselves, something rarely true with the Witness organization, .. "
    Tom you would not know. Because the GB and their lawyers are withholding over 20 years worth of Child Sexual Abuse details in America. How can you possibly know who names are in there ? 
    For you to state that it is rare amongst the JW Org for its 'leaders' to be involved, you would need to have access to those files. 
    Some on here have even said that GB members were homosexuals. And it was also said that a GB member had been accused of sexually abusing someone in Bethel.  I think this information came from JWI. My apologies to JWI if I'm wrong.
    Oh and I read the rest of your comment which I knew would be a total waste of my time, and it was. You go of on a tangent talking about world affairs and then you go 'gay-bashing' but pretend not to be. Then you do your normal JW thing by blaming those that tell the truth about your GB and JW Org.  You try to turn the tables on those people that have found true faults in your Org. You use that stupid old pretence that all people that find fault must be d/fed JWs. Sorry Tom that idea died long ago. Although you don't admit it, there are REAL VICTIMS of CSA  that have PROVEN that Elders and others have misused their 'authority' in the Org and hidden the truth and/or lied about CSA in the JW Org. 
    But keep up your story telling Tom, some naive ones might believe you. 
  18. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    If Montana have such law than that is obviously lawful how Supreme Court of Montana found elements that released elders and WT and Congregation from responsibility of such report. I am not expert to read documents in such a way and to see what is what into details.
    What is interesting, again, from several cases and Court documents known to public, is very strong interest of WT Society and JW elders to be considered in front, before secular authorities, as clergy, priesthood with all legal rights as Catholic clergy. In fact WT lawyers using Catholic clergy as example, how they want to be treated in the exactly same way.  
    WT Society, elders and regular members have history of preaching against all religions and theirs priesthood who are instruments of satan, and how these churches and their priesthood lies to people and teach falsehoods. But now WT Society asking, in fact demands to be treated exactly in the same way, to be in same level of "spiritual position, authority" that have Catholic clergy. That is something disgusting, for observers. When taking such position, JW elders drinking "same wine of adultery" with their Catholic "colleagues".      
    JW church has not "confession" doctrine  as Catholic church has. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989217 Why? Because, JW church had not clergy ....until now :))) 
  19. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in 1914   
    I think there is a scripture that says Jesus was seen by up to 500 people. 
    1 Corinthians 15 v 6. 
    New International Version
    After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.
    New King James Version
    After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep.
    We know that Jesus 'took on human form' when he was resurrected, so as to 'prove' his resurrection. We have the account of Thomas too. But we know that Jesus was resurrected as a spirit and merely 'used' human form to show himself to humans. 
  20. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    @TrueTomHarley  I read half of it Tom, but you do tend to go over the top. 
    One thing i find quite funny is the FACT that the GB / JW Org change the use of their conscience when it affects their bank account.
    In many countries JW Preaching is AGAINST THE LAW.  But as the apostles said 'We must obey God as ruler rather than men'. So in many countries Witnesses deliberately break the law to preach. 
    BUT, the GB / JW Org won't 'break the law' to protect young children from being Sexually Abused. 
    Even if it it not a legal requirement' to report, SURELY it IS a requirement from GOD through CHRIST to report all forms of Abuse, Child or Adult, to those authorities which GOD HAD PUT IN PLACE.  
    Berean Study Bible  James 1 v 27 
    Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
    New International Version Romans 13 v 1
    Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
    Christian Standard Bible
    Let everyone submit to the governing authorities, since there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are instituted by God.
    Your GB and its Org have no excuse. 
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Church stands by its decision
    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints said it considers protecting victims a top priority, and has a 24-hour help line to report abuse. "   It seems that they have more of a conscience and better morality than the GB and JW org. They may have broken man's law but they obeyed God's law.  And no I do not want to be a Mormon.  But I think there is a scripture somewhere that says something like, 'when those without law do the things of the law' And of course it is talking about God's law not man's.
  21. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    JW elders are clergy and WT Lawyers have said so! The JWorg website for the public has "erroneous" information about this subject. :))
    When will this "new light" about the WT Society Management structure come out titled, 
    "What exactly are the elders in fact?", and will this be announced and presented during meetings to members, as a "clarification"?
  22. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?   
    Did Jehovah’s Witnesses Lie to the Montana Court About Confidentiality?
    by Alexandra James As many activists know, the Montana Supreme Court reversed a $35 million judgment against Jehovah's Witnesses recently, in a case involving the religion's failure to report child sex abuse to the authorities. (See this news story.)
    Confidentiality Trumps Mandatory Reporting Laws
    The court noted when religious authorities are exempt from the state's mandatory reporting laws; from page 14 of their ruling:
    In other words, if someone communicates something to their clergy and expects that information to remain confidential, that clergy member is not required to report that information to authorities or anyone else.
    Jehovah's Witnesses Promise Confidentiality to Congregants
    The decision by the state justices referred to statements made by Dave Chappel,¹ "a Jehovah’s Witnesses Service Department elder designated by the Watchtower and CCJW [The Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses] boards of directors to serve as their representative in this litigation":

    In short, Chappel argued that congregants in the religion are promised that things discussed with elders remain strictly confidential. Chappel used this promise of confidentiality as a legal argument against requirements of reporting child sex abuse to the authorities.
    The Deception Over "Confidentiality"
    There is a problem with this so-called promise of confidentiality, however. The 2010 edition of "Shepherd the Flock of God," the handbook used by Jehovah's Witness elders, chapter 7, paragraph 15, says:

    These instructions are repeated in the 2019 versions of the "Shepherd" book, in chapter 15, paragraph 15.
    In other words, these so-called promises of keeping things confidential are rubbish. Elders are outright instructed to share things said during judicial committee cases with other elders, the circuit overseer, and the branch office as they see fit, without informing the "wrongdoer."
    I'm not a lawyer so I have no input as to how this information affects any legal case, if at all. However, set that aside; from a moral point of view Jehovah's Witnesses were, at the very least, downright deceitful in their arguments. They don't ensure confidentiality during the judicial committee process, even instructing elders to use someone's name in certain discussions and to not tell that person that they'll be sharing their supposed confidential information.
    Whatever anyone's legal arguments and outcome of any court case, there is no doubt in my mind that Jehovah's Witnesses continuously fail child sex abuse victims in their religion. They keep the secrets of molesters, fail to warn parents, fail to notify authorities, fight victims in court, and say whatever they can to protect their assets over their children.
    I'm heartbroken over how the court's decision must make those victims feel, and knowing that the case was reversed based on a dishonesty obviously doesn't make things any easier to accept.
    *** ***
    ¹It's my understanding that the person's name was Douglas, not Dave.
    *** ***
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This came through to me today, so I thought I'd share it. 
    Whilst I don't fully agree with massive payouts to victims (or lawyers), I do agree with a payout of a reasonable amount accompanied with an apology from the Org. It never puts the wrong, right. It never can. But it would give the Victim a closure and a sort of 'contentment' of actually being believed. 
    Yes i know that lawyers and solicitors rub their hands greedily for their financial gain, but that must be on both sides i would think. Or do the GB's lawyers do it out of love ? 
    One thing this article does point out for sure, is that there is no confidentiality within JW Org, they just share the secrets amongst themselves. Hopefully more brothers and sisters will gain a better conscience and report any wrongdoings to Police and Authorities as it still seems that Elders are exempt from doing so. 
  23. Like
    Srecko Sostar reacted to Kosonen in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.   
    @Arauna I know that some amount of members of "christian" and muslim religions practise spiritism and sorcery, just as some amount of their members are stealing, sexually immoral and commiting other various sins. But the point is that both those religions in general condemn those sins including spiritism. 
    But who is the biggest proponet of moral decay in today's world? Which organized group or society has been directly promoting sin the past 100 year? That would be the mother of all disgusting things. Can you tell which society has been spearheading to normalize homosexuality and other disgusting sins the past 100 years? 
    It is surely not the religions. But they have to different degrees also fallen for the presure from Babylon the Great.
    So the religions are not the source of all the disgusting things but, they have fallen victims to Babylon the Great to different degrees. 
     The Bible talks about many different symbolic prostitutes. So we have to figure out what each represent. Individual christians are also warned in James 4:4:
    Adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is making himself an enemy of God.
    An other characteristic of Babylon the Great is according to Rev. 18:24 that it is the cause of wars and killings of christians: "Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.”
    Well during our life time we have not seen any serious mass killings of christians in the Western world. But the Revelation book warns that an hour of testing will finally come over the whole earth. Rev 3:10. Then it will become more evident who and what Babylon the Great represent. 
    But knowing who are stoking war today help us already to identify Babylon the Great. Check this article published  yesterday on a news site for private investors. That contains clues to identify Babylon the Great.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/war-pigs-are-finally-revealing-themselves-and-just-beginning
     
    Acts 26:14 "And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice say to me in the Hebrew language: ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? To keep kicking against the goads* makes it hard for you.’ 15  But I said: ‘Who are you, Lord?’ And the Lord said: ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16  But rise and stand on your feet. This is why I have appeared to you, to choose you as a servant and a witness both of things you have seen and things I will make you see respecting me.+ 17  And I will rescue you from this people and from the nations, to whom I am sending you+ 18  to open their eyes,+ to turn them from darkness+ to light+ and from the authority of Satan+ to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins+ and an inheritance among those sanctified by their faith in me.’"
    Tom Herry what do you say about that?
    Here some more interesting things conserning apostle Paul.
    Galatians 1:11  For I want you to know, brothers, that the good news I declared to you is not of human origin;+ 12  for neither did I receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it was through a revelation by Jesus Christ.
    Galatians 2:8 for the one who empowered Peter for an apostleship to those who are circumcised also empowered me for those who are of the nations
  24. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in 1914   
    Physical appearance of angels (in various cases that Bible described) was supernatural, or?
  25. Upvote
    Srecko Sostar got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in 1914   
    I also agree with this reality. 
    But I also think it is then necessary to separate the idea that WT promotes. Again we need to ask ourselves: How does "true knowledge of God" multiply?
    Through "progressive knowledge"? In other words, this may mean that errors and accuracy occur through attempts. And so the results change.
    If one can describe the "progressive knowledge" of the Organization in this way, then it has nothing to do with their claim that the "holy spirit leads" GB and Organization with the same method, "progressive knowledge."
    If the holy spirit uses the "progressive knowledge" method, what is it different from the human "progressive knowledge" method? 
    Human using "progressive knowledge" from the beginning. Somehow we can tell it is "invention" made by God when he created human brain.  In Eden, Adam and Eve and their children accumulate their knowledge with years and experience. And in similar way WT Society done about Bible. I found interesting quote:
     “We tend to think human knowledge as progressive; because we know more and more, our parents and grandparents are back numbers. But a contrary theory is possible - that we simply recognize different things at different times and in different ways.”
    No matter what is the case, I am not sure how we should involve "holy spirit" in our mathematics. WT Society and GB claims how they are "guided by spirit", is just moving ordinary human try to understand something with various methods of thinking ("progressive knowledge") on "higher level" to put impression on members, who want to believe how exactly that what WT publications bring them, is/are "God's truth". 
    Change of methods how to gain "progressive knowledge" is visible in "changed approached about type and antitype". Your article say:  In times past, it was more common for our literature to take what might be called a type-antitype approach to Scriptural accounts. The Bible narrative was considered the type, and any prophetic fulfillment of the story was the antitype.... Additionally, it has been found that some of the older explanations about types and antitypes are unduly difficult for many to grasp. The details of such teachings—who pictures whom and why—can be hard to keep straight, to remember, and to apply. Of even greater concern, though, is that the moral and practical lessons of the Bible accounts under examination may be obscured or lost in all the scrutiny of possible antitypical fulfillments. ....Should we conclude that Bible narratives have only a practical application and no other meaning? No. Today our publications are more likely to teach that one thing reminds us of or serves to illustrate another. They are less likely to present many Bible accounts in a rigid framework of prophetic types and antitypes. For example, we can rightly say that Naboth’s integrity in the face of persecution and death reminds us of the integrity of Christ and his anointed. However, we can also be reminded of the faithful stand of many of the Lord’s “other sheep.” Such a clear and simple comparison has the hallmark of divine teaching.* - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015202
    ..hallmark of divine teaching..  What is "divine teaching"? When WT Society had "divine teachings"? Before or after "changed approach"? Who caused "progress"? God, or human need to change what is old and making problem for WT GB theology?
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