JOHN BUTLER

So, to those that would criticize me for only talking about the JW Org, then it seems what i am doing is correct. 
As to whether you agree with my comments that is another matter. 
Thank you Admin for your comment especially this line.
"This club is about JW’s and @The Librarian is the main moderator."  
So, with no disrespect to a certain 'space traveller' my only interest in the issues I raise are JW's, JW Org, the Governing Body of same, the Child abuse problem within that Org and some of its teachings.
Those are the reasons I visit this forum. I do not wish to know what Muslims do, what Catholics do or what the rest of the world does.  
I do like it that Tom recognises that the JW Org 'bosses' are not happy with the congregants investigating / researching / enquiring for information or discussion outside of JW material. 
I would like to make something clear however. I do think the teaching programme / bible studies / door to door ministry are good ideas when done properly. So I am not wholeheartedly anti-JW Org as some may think. 
The problem begins when the GB / Org starts to misinterpret Bible teachings, and adding things to it. When it changes a meaning of a scripture three of more times over a few years, then it not only makes the GB and Org look silly, but it lessons the confidence that a person has in the GB being guided by God. And when it completely changes a viewpoint on something then one has to question any authority of the GB.
It would not have helped Noah if he was half way through building the Ark, then God said to him,  'Hang on Noah, something is wrong here, dimensions need altering, take it all apart and start again'. .... This is what the GB do, and they call it 'new light'.  
Hankulan, from what i have seen here, there are people that defend the JW Org as well as people that find fault with it.  And if you find that there are many others that criticize the JW Org, then ask yourself why are they doing so. Also, look deep into the allegations that i and others make, you may find that these allegations are true. Then you will have your reason as to why we make our comments.  
 

Yes, this type of report will come up time and time again but the JW puppets will not believe it, ever.
Of course the Elder puppets know it's all true but they keep it all secret as far as possible. 
People like Tom tom, and others that think the GB and the Org are wonderful. 
Let's get to the nitty gritty. THE GOVERNING BODY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING THE RULES. THEREFORE THE GOVERNING BODY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THIS ABUSE BECAUSE OF THE RULES THEY HAVE MADE. 
Unless that GB are removed and replaced then the JW org has no chance in being clean. 
What does the scripture say.  That Wicked slave will be thrown out into the street and that is where the gnashing of his teeth will be. 
Well soon may it happen to them. 
 

So, to those that would criticize me for only talking about the JW Org, then it seems what i am doing is correct. 
As to whether you agree with my comments that is another matter. 
Thank you Admin for your comment especially this line.
"This club is about JW’s and @The Librarian is the main moderator."  
So, with no disrespect to a certain 'space traveller' my only interest in the issues I raise are JW's, JW Org, the Governing Body of same, the Child abuse problem within that Org and some of its teachings.
Those are the reasons I visit this forum. I do not wish to know what Muslims do, what Catholics do or what the rest of the world does.  
I do like it that Tom recognises that the JW Org 'bosses' are not happy with the congregants investigating / researching / enquiring for information or discussion outside of JW material. 
I would like to make something clear however. I do think the teaching programme / bible studies / door to door ministry are good ideas when done properly. So I am not wholeheartedly anti-JW Org as some may think. 
The problem begins when the GB / Org starts to misinterpret Bible teachings, and adding things to it. When it changes a meaning of a scripture three of more times over a few years, then it not only makes the GB and Org look silly, but it lessons the confidence that a person has in the GB being guided by God. And when it completely changes a viewpoint on something then one has to question any authority of the GB.
It would not have helped Noah if he was half way through building the Ark, then God said to him,  'Hang on Noah, something is wrong here, dimensions need altering, take it all apart and start again'. .... This is what the GB do, and they call it 'new light'.  
Hankulan, from what i have seen here, there are people that defend the JW Org as well as people that find fault with it.  And if you find that there are many others that criticize the JW Org, then ask yourself why are they doing so. Also, look deep into the allegations that i and others make, you may find that these allegations are true. Then you will have your reason as to why we make our comments.  
 

Bite back!
Think of it as playing a game of "Whack-A-Mole".
Except for those people that are always wrong about EVERYTHING, seeing the world from the inside of a frosted glass bubble, I don't think the Admin, or any other sane person would object to you lambasting stupid ideas.
It would be a mistake to shrink from the insane. ( No pun intended ... )
With stupid people, it is necessary to be obtuse, and diplomatic.
Sometimes Snowflakes pile up into snow drifts ... and you need a snow PLOW to progress.
They will eventually melt all by themselves, as Reality is a harsh taskmaster, and cares not at all.

obviously your not from the US. In the US, the evangelicals elected Trump and put the newly elected Supreme Court judge on the bench. This is modern Christianity at its worst. You are correct, Christ made it a point to separate church and state. None of which the majority of Christendom is not doing across the world.

Yes, this type of report will come up time and time again but the JW puppets will not believe it, ever.
Of course the Elder puppets know it's all true but they keep it all secret as far as possible. 
People like Tom tom, and others that think the GB and the Org are wonderful. 
Let's get to the nitty gritty. THE GOVERNING BODY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING THE RULES. THEREFORE THE GOVERNING BODY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALL THIS ABUSE BECAUSE OF THE RULES THEY HAVE MADE. 
Unless that GB are removed and replaced then the JW org has no chance in being clean. 
What does the scripture say.  That Wicked slave will be thrown out into the street and that is where the gnashing of his teeth will be. 
Well soon may it happen to them. 
 

damn typical fashion!!!! UGH, distracted this from the main topic by means of the shell game. 
You're good mr gone away, very good. I bit. 
 
Back to our regular scheduled program. 
 
 
So which is it? Alliance with the Bible on who is still here after Armageddon or the wt and its publications? 

Oh my, so much has gone on while I've been away.
One thing that I noticed @JOHN BUTLERyou mentioned how Witness youths don't really want to go to meetings and assemblies. I agree, sometimes they would just rather do something else. But those who do it for the right reason, even though they don't really want to at the time, don't leave the minute they leave home. You can "suffer" anything if it's for the right reason. Conversely, if you do something for the wrong reason, then that usually has no staying power.

This forum is entitled JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES PUBLIC CLUB. Does that not mean it is about JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ? 
I don't 'live' on here so I don't know, but have 'some voices' not been allowed to be heard ?
Admin is very kind to me I feel and have allowed me to express my feelings freely. 
And if I'm the 'one individual' you are talking about then just look at the heading of this topic. It's about me, though not of my making, but I'm not running away from it. 
Can we get something straight. Jehovah's Witnesses Organisation, governed by its Governing Body, say that they are the ONLY true Organisation that God is using to gather people together to be saved through Armageddon. The ONLY ARK like Org, the ONLY hope.
The GB therefore have to pretend that the JW Org is clean and pure. Well I'm proving that the JW Org is not clean and pure and that the GB do not have direction from God. 
What you or anyone else say about any other religion is not important here on this JW Forum.  JW's are not supposed to be compared with 'people of the world'. JW's are supposed to be as pure as they can be and serving God to the best of their ability. 
The only way JW's and the JW Org should be compared is to God's very high standards, NOT TO STANDARDS OF THE WORLD. 
You know, I will admit to not being the brightest light in the street but even i can understand what God is looking for. 

Biblehub tells me nothing as I never even look at it, and basically I have no idea what it is. 
You seem to think you are the only one that knows anything and that you are always correct. 
If a man can see things with his own eyes does he need to do research ?  
This forum is enough and I have my own thoughts and don't need you to try to correct my every thought. 
Let's make this simple for you. The Governing Body are 8 men. Mostly American, mostly white. All the Elders of all the JW congregations serve the Governing Body to the extent of worshipping them.  The Elders have proved this by acting like puppets, following orders without question. 
The JW Org say that a person cannot serve God without being part of that Org. Where does the JW Org get this information from ? It gets it from the Governing Body.  Now I would think even you disagree with the Governing Body on that issue ?
So, I would be happy if you stopped trying to 'correct' me every time I comment. Please realise we have totally different opinions on most issues. Thankyou. 
 

You are entitled to your opinion and thank you for adding it. 
I suppose all the Victims of Child Abuse in the JW Org are cry babies to you also. 
If all JW's 'tried to live according to the bible' then there would not be over twenty years worth of CHILD ABUSE  within the Org. 
I see you are using the devil's tactics, working on emotions. 

Srecko, never say never. Do not shut any doors and do not burn any bridges. Just imagine if the JW Org did get cleaned up by God. Imagine that God removed the GB for misconduct. Imagine that  God removed all the wicked Elders and replaced the GB and the bad Elders with honest hearted ones. You and i could return to the Org with a clear conscience. And with God's mercy and guidance of his holy spirit, we may even make it through Armageddon. Never give up hope Strecko. No one knows who will live or die. 

If you have plenty of bucks...what are you beefing about?   Let and let...that is all.  Peace, Man.  Simmer down.  
         

All dedicated servants of God know that Jehovah's Eyes are Everywhere.  The GB is just doing the best they can.  Really...they are Not immune to the ills of this wicked system, especially as it is escalating in badness.   Why not Pray for mere humans who are TRYING to determine Gods will.   
     Money is needed.   Money talks...other "stuff...er, "walks".    
       As this earth is growing more and more angry as the Mother is injured.  Natural Disasters are pandemic, and the Governing Body, as is fashioned after the First Century Model....is keeping ME....(just speaking for myself now)  in good viewing, and dramas and encouragement and literature, and lights on at the meetings and ect.ect. and it takes Money to function at all in this society.   I do not mind forking over some dough.   It is Worth it~

Srecko, never say never. Do not shut any doors and do not burn any bridges. Just imagine if the JW Org did get cleaned up by God. Imagine that God removed the GB for misconduct. Imagine that  God removed all the wicked Elders and replaced the GB and the bad Elders with honest hearted ones. You and i could return to the Org with a clear conscience. And with God's mercy and guidance of his holy spirit, we may even make it through Armageddon. Never give up hope Strecko. No one knows who will live or die. 

I think you deliberately misquote or miss the point of my comments.
The point wasn't that Jesus 'was' offensive. The point was that the Pharisees didn't like the truth from Jesus, so the Pharisees found the truth from Jesus to be offensive.
However Paul, keep on keeping on as you seem to enjoy it. 

Mr Tom you are a comedian through and through. But of course you do it to undermine the points i make.
Turn something serious into a joke and some people may just follow you and dismiss my comments as not important.
Well I'm not affected by it as I am pleased with myself for making things known.
What people do with true information is up to them. 

Srecko, never say never. Do not shut any doors and do not burn any bridges. Just imagine if the JW Org did get cleaned up by God. Imagine that God removed the GB for misconduct. Imagine that  God removed all the wicked Elders and replaced the GB and the bad Elders with honest hearted ones. You and i could return to the Org with a clear conscience. And with God's mercy and guidance of his holy spirit, we may even make it through Armageddon. Never give up hope Strecko. No one knows who will live or die. 

....
 

Lost_.mp4 The Muppet Movie (1979)_ 13_40 - 14_15 (1080p).mp4  
In my own way, I understand where John Butler is coming from .. as I have a deep love for humanity.
It's PEOPLE I can't stand.
 

In hindsight I spoke too sharply to @admin. I apologize to him.
He is our host after all. I appreciate it that he puts up with us.

I loved her singing and have many of her records. I'm a Soul, Motown and Reggae fan. Well my teens were the 1960's.
How worldly of me  

I quite love how, even though I explain my self fully in English everyone should be able to understand, people still love to misquote me or to pretend that I've said something. 
An example here. 
This would mean, you are personal holding Christ responsible for the things people do. That has become your rallying cry.
What utter nonsense. I have love for God and His son Jesus Christ. I would not blame either for the way people act. 
However, I do question people that pretend to be receiving direct instruction from either of those, from above. Especially when they get things all wrong, and also mistreat the ones they are supposed to be helping. 
 "...they find your attacks offensive... " Well the Pharisees found Jesus offensive too. Truth very often hurts. 
The Russians must have found the Witnesses offensive, they banned them and stole all of their property I believe. 
So it is, life goes on. 
 

Very well written, Fabulous comment. Thank you. 

Words you mentioned as "pejorative" and "labels" are just words. With words we differentiate things and we give them meaning. In reality, there are no bad words or pejorative, insulting words. There are people, groups of people who give their own new meaning when they apply it to other people or groups of people.
Some word is not obscene or insulting because it consists of certain letters. There is a street words for a sex organ, and there is a medical word for the same thing. None of them is rude. Because they actually mark the same thing.
An example is the word "apostate". It is used in certain circles (such as WTJWorg) to mark people who are members of the JW community but have different religious ideas. And some of these "apostates" remain within the JW community and some leave.
This forum meets people of different religious thoughts, beliefs, belongings. This group on this forum could be called the "interfaith group". :)))
The intention here is not to unite all of these people into a multi-faith community, but to represent, defend, challenge religious ideas. 
Many of the used words are not the fabrication of the one who writes them, but are in use for a long time. Those involved in the discussion know what they are talking about.
Of course, the words that was apply in text can hurt the feelings of the other. But sometimes this can not be avoided no matter how much an author of the text seeks to be objective .... or unwilling to be.
The fact we living in 21 century does not exclude, not canceled, does not delete important fact that is reason for division - there are always Us and Them. Unfortunately, Nobody can Change This "Primitivism". (even this word "primitivism" has at least two different labels, connotations  :))))

Shepherd the Flock of God:
Apostasy:
Apostasy is a standing away from true worship, a falling away, defection, rebellion, abandonment. It includes the following: ˙ Celebrating false religious holidays: (Ex. 32: 4-6; Jer. 7:16-19) Not all holidays directly involve false religion and require judicial action.
˙ Participation in interfaith activities: (2 Cor. 6:14, 15, 17, 18) Apostate acts include bowing before altars and images and sharing in false religious songs and prayers.—Rev. 18:2, 4.
˙ Deliberately spreading teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah’s Witnesses: (Acts 21:21, ftn.; 2 John 7, 9, 10) Any with sincere doubts should be helped. Firm, loving counsel should be given. (2 Tim. 2:16-19, 23-26; Jude 22, 23) If one obstinately is speaking about or deliberately spreading false teachings, this may be or may lead to apostasy. If there is no response after a first and a second admonition, a judicial committee should be formed. —Titus 3:10, 11; w89 10/1 p. 19; w86 4/1 pp. 30- 31; w86 3/15 p. 15.
˙ Causing divisions and promoting sects: This would be deliberate action disrupting the unity of the congregation or undermining the confidence of the brothers in Jehovah’s arrangement. It may involve or lead to apostasy.—Rom. 16:17, 18; Titus 3:10, 11; it-2 p. 886.
˙ Continuing in employment that makes one an accomplice to or a promoter of false worship would subject one to disfellowshipping after being allowed a reasonable amount of time, perhaps up to six months, to make the needed adjustments.—w99 4/15 pp. 28-30; km 9/76 pp. 3-6.
˙ The practice of spiritism.—Deut. 18:9-13; 1 Cor. 10:21, 22; Gal. 5:20. ˙ Idolatry: (1 Cor. 6:9, 10; 10:14) Idolatry includes the use of images, including pictures, in false religious worship.