JOHN BUTLER

No disrespect but i do wish you would keep the topic on the Jehovah's Witnesses only when the topic is such. 
There is no point telling what other 'religions' do, or what the outside world does. Surely you would know that the JW's are supposed to be 'no part of this word' and should not be influenced by anyone other than God and Jesus Christ, and the Bible.  

Unfortunately, in my opinion as I've said before, and as the scripture says, the GB have become the 'wicked slave' that says the master is delaying, then the wicked slave starts to beat his fellow slaves etc etc.. 
"and keep the congregations morally and spiritually clean" you say. Then explain to me the whole situation of the Child Abuse / pedophilia problem in their Org. And why the GB refused to hand over the twenty years worth of documents pertaining to same, when the Supreme Court of California demanded it. After all the scriptures say to 'be obedient to the law of the land as long as it doesn't conflict with God's law. 
The Pedophilia problem has been hidden in the JW Org for much longer than i know. But in 1997 the GB started collecting all the USA accusations together. The 'orders' were given that the elders must keep quiet about it all and not reveal any Pedophiles within their own congregation. Congregants were ordered not to inform the police and not to go to any outside authority. Children and adults that didn't have 'two witnesses' were called liars. Those same people were disfellowshipped when they wanted justice. And you pretend that the GB were "just doing their job they feel they have been assigned by Christ". Hypocrisy at its best. 
 

Spoken like an elder or puppet of the GB.
This is my personal case : I left the Org after doing three months research into the Child Abuse accusations Earthwide in the JW Org. In my opinion the GB were responsible for most of it and the elders just acted as puppets for the GB. I could no longer see the GB as the 'faithful and discreet slave class' because of their actions and instruction to others. "By their works you will know them"... 
I did not spread any message in the congregation, so I did not cause division. I emailed as many elders as I could and told them I was 'resigning' from the JW Organisation. This does not mean I was or am turning against God or Jesus Christ. I just left the JW Org. ... 
The elders didn't ask me for a reason, they just called me in to 'do the paperwork'.  I had to sign a copy of the email that I'd sent which one of them had printed. 
Prior to me 'resigning' I had told a few 'brothers' that i intended to resign, not giving them a full explanation... This was so that those people that mattered to me would know I had not been disfellowshipped for sinning against God... 
Now we all know that the GB has told all elders how to announce it only one way from the platform. So and so 'is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses'. This is a deliberate ploy so that everyone will SHUN that person. No one would know if the person left of their own choice or was disfellowshipped for 'wrong conduct'. So of course no one would then speak to such a person. Total shunning.
Even those that knew I was 'resigning' do not speak to me. I repeat total SHUNNING. 
Why ? Not because of anything I've done, but out of fear of the elders and the thought of themselves being disfellowshipped. 
I am strong enough to cope and have a good wife. I can cope. Many cannot cope, they suffer badly.
But of course to the American mind, of which most of the GB are, it is just collateral damage... The same as is the Child Abuse victims. 

The problem with JW Org is the thing taught is Not To Think. Just Obey.  Don't ya know that the GB are the 'faithful slave' they get all the communications direct from God. They gotta b right en it.  That's how it taught. 
Don't think about what you can celebrate and what you can't because we will TELL you what to celebrate and what not to.
Don't think about how to do the ministry because we will TELL you how to do your ministry. 
Don't think about who you can talk to or mix with because we will TELL you who you can talk to and mix with.
Don't think about what clothes to wear because we will TELL you what clothes to wear.
Well I think you might just get the idea from those examples.
The thing that the GB hates is if congregants start to think for themselves. Because that's when the GB starts to lose their hold over people. They lose a little bit of power and control every time someone thinks for themselves. 
That's why people get disfellowshipped for asking too many questions. Oh dear that's 'causing a division in the congregation'. Disfellowship them. Off with their heads.

If you do not believe me then it seems you are calling me a liar. This is general practice for JW's that don't want to believe something. It starts with the GB and follows through with the elders. The Two Witness rule being a good example. Do you honestly think the Two Witness rule was meant to be used in a Child Abuse case ? And yet it is not used when a couple are accused of fornication. 
However, I shall say again. I left the JW Org because of the Child Abuse / Pedophilia problem Earthwide. I found out how serious the problem was by doing three months research online... It was impossible to talk about it in the congregation because it would have been a 'crime' worthy of disfellowshipment. 
Are you American ? (I never bother trying to dig into people's personal info'). The reason i ask is because Americans are raised on the thinking of 'Collateral damage' being ok. So it seems with you, if you are in agreement with the GB. However Jesus said ....
But whoever stumbles one of these little ones who have faith, it would be better for him if a millstone that is turned by a donkey were put around his neck and he were pitched into the sea. (Mark 9 v 42)
Your GB seem to think otherwise. They think it is ok to ruin lives by allowing pedophiles to be hidden in the JW Org. Oh, how many people have been stumbled by this ? How much blood does your GB have on their hands ? 
So you see, I honestly and sincerely could not go out and teach others, with the intention of bringing them into an Org, that allows such wicked things to happen. I did not want to be responsible for giving people a false sense of security, knowing the safety of their children could be at such risk.... 
Whether you believe me is of no importance of course. What is important is that God Himself knows the truth of the matter and either He or Jesus Christ will judge me on it. 

Spoken like an elder or puppet of the GB.
This is my personal case : I left the Org after doing three months research into the Child Abuse accusations Earthwide in the JW Org. In my opinion the GB were responsible for most of it and the elders just acted as puppets for the GB. I could no longer see the GB as the 'faithful and discreet slave class' because of their actions and instruction to others. "By their works you will know them"... 
I did not spread any message in the congregation, so I did not cause division. I emailed as many elders as I could and told them I was 'resigning' from the JW Organisation. This does not mean I was or am turning against God or Jesus Christ. I just left the JW Org. ... 
The elders didn't ask me for a reason, they just called me in to 'do the paperwork'.  I had to sign a copy of the email that I'd sent which one of them had printed. 
Prior to me 'resigning' I had told a few 'brothers' that i intended to resign, not giving them a full explanation... This was so that those people that mattered to me would know I had not been disfellowshipped for sinning against God... 
Now we all know that the GB has told all elders how to announce it only one way from the platform. So and so 'is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses'. This is a deliberate ploy so that everyone will SHUN that person. No one would know if the person left of their own choice or was disfellowshipped for 'wrong conduct'. So of course no one would then speak to such a person. Total shunning.
Even those that knew I was 'resigning' do not speak to me. I repeat total SHUNNING. 
Why ? Not because of anything I've done, but out of fear of the elders and the thought of themselves being disfellowshipped. 
I am strong enough to cope and have a good wife. I can cope. Many cannot cope, they suffer badly.
But of course to the American mind, of which most of the GB are, it is just collateral damage... The same as is the Child Abuse victims. 

The problem with JW Org is the thing taught is Not To Think. Just Obey.  Don't ya know that the GB are the 'faithful slave' they get all the communications direct from God. They gotta b right en it.  That's how it taught. 
Don't think about what you can celebrate and what you can't because we will TELL you what to celebrate and what not to.
Don't think about how to do the ministry because we will TELL you how to do your ministry. 
Don't think about who you can talk to or mix with because we will TELL you who you can talk to and mix with.
Don't think about what clothes to wear because we will TELL you what clothes to wear.
Well I think you might just get the idea from those examples.
The thing that the GB hates is if congregants start to think for themselves. Because that's when the GB starts to lose their hold over people. They lose a little bit of power and control every time someone thinks for themselves. 
That's why people get disfellowshipped for asking too many questions. Oh dear that's 'causing a division in the congregation'. Disfellowship them. Off with their heads.

When I first wrote that the point of this OP is not new and that a DF'd child should be shunned, I meant that this has been part of standard "policy" and therefore it is not an entirely "new point" that any Witness should be surprised at. I was also saying it's a rule that was evidently influenced by a different type of economic situation where children immediately moved away from the "roof" of their parents as soon as they could get steady employment. You have probably read some of the early discussions about disfellowshipping of family members in the Watch Tower publications and realize that the "rules" tend to map to the typical middle-class Anglo-American style of homelife that Bethel writers often imagined as an ideal target audience. What Brother Herd was saying was nothing totally new; we've said for years that children should be shunned.
So that was the context of my post that you questioned. But I thought you were putting it in a different context, where you were asking me personally if I thought that shunning a child could ever be "authorized" or scripturally defended. And to those questions I answered that there could be circumstances where shunning a child could be the right thing to do, personally, although I do not think that most shunning that goes on among us is thought through. For most of us, it's a congregational decision following a set of rules reinforced bureaucratically from a central legalistic authority: the WTS. But in reality each of us stands on our own. In this regard none of us should be under any central authority except God and Christ. We should not shun because we are told to shun. Even in the Corinthian congregation, Paul expected that a majority would rebuke this particular man, given the circumstances. He did not expect 100 percent agreement about the way a "disfellowshipped" person was treated. Note the words I highlighted when I quoted this verse above:
(2 Corinthians 2:5-11) 5 . . . not to be too harsh in what I say. 6 This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man, 7 so that, on the contrary now, YOU should kindly forgive and comfort [him], that somehow such a man may not be swallowed up by his being overly sad. 8 Therefore I exhort YOU to confirm YOUR love for him. 9 For to this end also I write to ascertain the proof of YOU, whether YOU are obedient in all things. 10 Anything YOU kindly forgive anyone, I do too. In fact, as for me, whatever I have kindly forgiven, if I have kindly forgiven anything, it has been for YOUR sakes in Christ’s sight; 11 that we may not be overreached by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his designs. Note also that Paul didn't expect to be the central authority for the Corinthian congregation, but that he would follow their lead in this matter. As they saw fit to forgive, Paul would obey their lead.
I think a lot of Witnesses would see another phrase in that passage as the one to highlight where Paul says "also I write to ascertain the proof of you, whether you are obedient in all things." A lot of Witnesses would see this as a congregational directive from a central authority like Paul or the apostles or a "governing body." But looking at it in the context of what Paul is saying here and several times elsewhere in 2 Corinthians, he is really saying that we should NOT get caught up in any hard fast rules that are inflexible and unbending. The overriding rule to be obedient to "in all things" is the fact that Jesus is the true Head watching over the congregation, and Jesus taught us to be forgiving. Satan wants us to forget that and lose our "fellow feeling" lose our "humanity" lose our "natural affection." And trying to legislate love and forgiveness is a sure way to lose touch with the entire idea of Christ's love and Jehovah's undeserved kindness. If we are only following rules instead of a desire to imitate Christ, then we are being overreached by Satan.
At any rate, this was my point, that we should not be expected to shun just to follow the rules imposed upon a congregation. We shun when it is appropriate, and the Bible tells us that there are times when this is appropriate. But it is our personal conscience telling us what we should do. Just because Lloyd Barry shunned Theodore Jaracz doesn't mean the rest of us should have, as it was probably based on the idea of Matthew 18 or 2 Thessalonians 3. When something is well known in a congregational setting then it is probable that many individuals will decide what to do, and most will do the right thing. If 5 people out of 100 are shunning a man for some reason, this does not necessarily the rest should. Even if a majority of a congregation has shunned someone this does not necessarily mean that the rest should either. (And I suppose this could occur in cases where family bonds should override the majority for certain individuals, too.) Shunning is a "rebuke" meant to say that Christians in the congregation do not approve of the way the conduct might reflect on the teachings of Christ. The reputation of the Christian congregation is the same thing, or should be. The congregation should reflect the teachings of Christ the Head. I know you thought I was overly concerned with the reputation of the congregation, but this is a scriptural concern, too. Note that in the same or adjacent context of how the Corinthians were handling an infamous case of incest, it appears that by not "shunning" the wicked one, it was giving the impression that the Corinthians were proud of putting up with such a thing. But just following this is another verse that appears to also speak to reputation:
(1 Corinthians 6:3-6) . . .Then why not matters of this life? 4 If, then, you do have matters of this life to be tried, is it the men looked down on in the congregation whom you assign as judges? 5 I am speaking to move you to shame. Is there not one wise man among you who is able to judge between his brothers? 6 Instead, brother goes to court against brother, and before unbelievers at that! Yes, this idea gets abused, so that in some churches, even murderers and extortioners and other criminals find sanctuary, and child sexual abusers have been hidden and shuffled around in these same churches. Unfortunately even in our own congregations certain such crimes have been hidden. I don't condone this. Crimes are for the government to punish, those who hold the sword. But the civil matters can surely be adjudicated by wise trusted brothers who could at least do as well as the TV-star "Judge Judy" and her ilk. (You might actually be surprised at how many such "cases" are worked out through congregational elders.) Of course, what's a "civil" matter in some countries might be a "criminal" matter in another country: adultery, for example. The "superior authorities" of Romans 13 have that say, unless they are overstepping God's rulership.
By the way, I don't mean to imply that shunning is only for the reputation of the congregation, looking at it from the outside. There are insiders looking at the reputation of the congregation, too. And another reason has nothing to do with reputation, directly, and that is the need to keep the congregation clean. The "spirit" or attitude of an entire congregation can be influenced, and specific individuals in the congregation could be improperly influenced. "A little leaven spoils the whole lump of dough." "One bad apple..." "Bad associations spoil useful habits." etc.
Note that in Revelation 2 and 3, that the congregations reported directly to Jesus as Head as to whether they properly shunned the teachings or prophecies of certain ones affecting those congregations.
Again, I'll repeat that our method of shunning can be based on our own personal conscience as individuals. But there is nothing unscriptural about it. There may be something unscriptural about the way many of us go about it, however.
 
 

Yes it is a mess caused by the GB inventing things 'beyond the things written'.  When i was still a brother it was announced from the platform that one of our daughters was 'no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses'. This daughter was actually acting as a foster parent to a child which was born to one of our other daughters, so it was a deeply involved situation. I made it known to everyone that i would not shun my daughter who was no longer a Witness because she needed our help in many ways. The GB should not make these blanket rules which only put burden on people shoulders. 

Yes it is a mess caused by the GB inventing things 'beyond the things written'.  When i was still a brother it was announced from the platform that one of our daughters was 'no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses'. This daughter was actually acting as a foster parent to a child which was born to one of our other daughters, so it was a deeply involved situation. I made it known to everyone that i would not shun my daughter who was no longer a Witness because she needed our help in many ways. The GB should not make these blanket rules which only put burden on people shoulders. 

We can love our disfellowshipped families and pray for them. There is a point obviously at which we will not ignore family. But that is left up to each person's discretion, since they know their situation, and the other person,  better than anyone else.

True, but I only pointed out one way that actually applies to our discussion. The classic family unit, where children, whatever age, are still subject to their parents. That is where disfellowshipping will have this affect: "The religious ties he had with his family change, but blood ties remain. The marriage relationship and normal family affections and dealings continue."
That is what we were discussing on here wasn't it?
Yes, so many different things. Which means that each person has to asses their unique situation and act accordingly. It is up to each individual in the end, the GB cannot make you do anything.
 

Anna, there are so many different families living in so many different ways that the GB has no right to give blanket orders as to what a person should or should not do. Where grandchildren are involved, old parents involved, so many different things.  
I still say that Jesus said we should 'Love our enemies and pray for them'. So why would Jesus want us to ignore or shun our families ? 

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_corinthians/5-20.htm
Very interesting indeed. 

What is known as a 'wind up merchant' then. 
 

Some on here say i go completely off topic. But this post is not about masturbation and pornography on the bigger scale of things, its about the Video the GB of JW Org may have made. So it seems you have gone off topic, and it could be said that you are using the topic to tell how much work you do concerning the subject. However, the topic is not about how seriously you take it, it is about the JW Video.  
So when you ask me what am i doing about it all, I give no reply, as it would be off topic. But in reality i don't go asking people if they masturbate and why. It is none of my business what others do in that respect. 

The GB and the elders have no right in doing this to you. They are putting a strain on your marriage.  Maybe you can ask her what scriptures the elders use when they tell her not to talk to you about such things. 
My wife is not baptised so she does not feel the pressure so much but still the elders try to cause a division in my household. 
Maybe you should have a lazy week and when your wife returns just say that as she was not home to work why should you do all of it :) 
 

Some on here say i go completely off topic. But this post is not about masturbation and pornography on the bigger scale of things, its about the Video the GB of JW Org may have made. So it seems you have gone off topic, and it could be said that you are using the topic to tell how much work you do concerning the subject. However, the topic is not about how seriously you take it, it is about the JW Video.  
So when you ask me what am i doing about it all, I give no reply, as it would be off topic. But in reality i don't go asking people if they masturbate and why. It is none of my business what others do in that respect. 

Ah but is it the GB's thinking or God's thinking, this is the whole point ? 
Can they give direct scripture where God states such ?  If there is no scripture then are they going beyond the things written ? If so they are adding burden to God's word. 
Surely there is enough pressure for any true servant of God to deal with, without making them feel guilty in an extra way. And as I've said before it might just make some younger people stumble, by thinking that the GB is putting on pressure whilst allowing 'other things' to go unpunished. 
They may see double standards and be stumbled to the point of quitting the JW Org. 
 

Best way to shun your kids completely is to stone them, according to Bible Principles.
So much wisdom

Strange how he doesn't quote a bible verse, he just states that the Bible "clearly says" you should shun your family members, your own children.
If the Bible clearly says you should do that, why can't you quote any scriptures? Because there are none. Nowhere in the Bible does it say anything like that.

(Eph 5 v11)  So the scriptures tell us to 'make things known', but for anyone that does they get disfellowshipped for 'Causing a division within the congregation'. And the GB has made its own 'rules' telling congregants not to report Child Abuse to the police or outside authorities. But if a member of a congregation reports child abuse to an elder nothing gets done about it, especially if the pedophile is and elder.... This has been proven in court rooms many times now..  Well as the scripture at Luke 8 v 17 says " For there is nothing hidden that will not become manifest, nor anything carefully concealed that will never become known and not come out in the open".  Its good to see so much being revealed. Maybe the GB will answer for their crimes. 

WT magazine quote:
"The religious ties he had with his family change, but blood ties remain. The marriage relationship and normal family affections and dealings continue." source: https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/
WT and JW members having real problem that coming to be bigger and bigger with every day.
Training Video on JWorg Convention very clear highlighted important point/lesson for JW members, when mum not want to respond on dfd daughter phone call (this act has been presented (showed) as role model that is need to be imitate). Also, there is/are more examples in publications and in public talks in congregations to support what is going on.
So, it is question; What GB means when say -  "blood ties remain and normal family affections and dealings continue."???  
What is "normal family affection" in this ???? when mum not want pick up phone to her flesh and blood?????!!!!!
I am so hurt when see this hypocrisy (not because my family not want speak with me), but because i feel the pain that is inside those (ex) JW people rejected by their families and friends!! because of WT policy.  

Ah but is it the GB's thinking or God's thinking, this is the whole point ? 
Can they give direct scripture where God states such ?  If there is no scripture then are they going beyond the things written ? If so they are adding burden to God's word. 
Surely there is enough pressure for any true servant of God to deal with, without making them feel guilty in an extra way. And as I've said before it might just make some younger people stumble, by thinking that the GB is putting on pressure whilst allowing 'other things' to go unpunished. 
They may see double standards and be stumbled to the point of quitting the JW Org. 
 

Here is a thought I just had ... different races are affected differently by different practices .... could it be that this is a very severe problem for some races, leading them to criminal activity and degradation, yet other races it does not affect in an adverse way at all?
I mean .... white people are very susceptible to cystic fibrosis, and malaria, but black people have more of a natural immunity to malaria, and as far as I know, cystic fibrosis is completely unknown (?) in black people. American Indians are said to be completely made crazy by "firewater", or whiskey as known today, but other races , not so much. Jewish people have Tay-Sachs disease, but white people and blacks, and Indians do not (presumably ... I may have gotten some facts mixed up ...)
All people and races are NOT the same .... this is a liberal fantasy.
I did math for 45 years for a living, but I probably could not compete with the average Asian teenager. There is a REASON why the best basketball players are black,  and the best Physicists are Jewish and India Indian ( ...long story there ...).
All people are all equal in the eyes of Jehovah and the Christ.... but NOBODY is equal to anybody else ... and there is a reason why there are NO Japanese Sumo Ballerinas, or 6'-7" Fighter Pilots.
There is a famous joke, with several variations floating around,  that sums this up .... about "Heaven", and "Hell", and the reason it is funny is that there is a basis in truth to it.
Heaven:
The police are British The cooks are French The engineers are German The administrators are Swiss The lovers are Italian Hell:
The police are German The cooks are British The engineers are Italian The administrators are French The lovers are Swiss   Perhaps the reason Jehovah God NEVER mentioned this subject at all, with a view to prohibition.... EVER ... was that with the Jews, it was a simple matter of stress relief ... like a boiling tea kettle letting off  steam ..... or like after a large Mexican Dinner, a round of flatulence, later.
( Think about this ... the human body is 90% water, and when full of digesting food and fermentation or gas pressure builds up ... the gas pressure relief valve is at the BOTTOM of a tank of liquid.  WOW! )
I do not know , but I suspect that like a drunk American Indian, masturbation among some individuals and/or races can be devastating mentally and socially, while for others merely a form of very private relaxation.
Whatever the case is, or perhaps some version I did not think about .... there is ONE THING that ALL CHRISTIANS ARE ABSOLUTELY AND UNAMBIGUOUSLY ORDERED NOT TO DO, UNDER PENALTY OF DEATH!
"Do not go beyond the things Written"