Thinking

Okay Billy  the kid...let me make one thing clear to you...I have not overlooked the massive amount of work the society has done in educating all about this problem...in fact I use it.......you are very self righteous and judgmental...and I can only assume still a bit of a kid...where you and I are different is I listen to these so called disgruntled women....and men.....who have been raped ......I cannot even beleive you made such a clearly chauvinistic comment...but that does show your immaturity..so I’m giving you some leeway to leave your short pants you are wearing and will offer you patience to grow Into long pants ..thus show a bit of emotional maturity...
Many are confused and have doubts....we need to speak consolingly to those who have doubts....I can see on this thread there are a lot of troublemakers who will not listen to reason...they are here to cause division and trouble....but you do not help a lot as you come over rather pious...and self righteous......and that’s only gives them fuel brother...
I advocate for trying to understand both sides of the coin..but always with Jehovah’s love and  compassion...but there does come  time where one has To draw a line in the sand With out right trouble  makers.
you have stated some good points in your comment brother...but you don’t have it all correct either..and nor do I....but at least I know that...
Those disgruntled women were once little girls who were raped...and angry men were little boys who were once raped...some over long periods of time...
They are in EVERY religion and organization world wide...most don’t even come to the attention of our elders...
I Thess 4,,,is good advice,,,for both of us ..so let us both stop continting with this activism.
 

Okay Billy  the kid...let me make one thing clear to you...I have not overlooked the massive amount of work the society has done in educating all about this problem...in fact I use it.......you are very self righteous and judgmental...and I can only assume still a bit of a kid...where you and I are different is I listen to these so called disgruntled women....and men.....who have been raped ......I cannot even beleive you made such a clearly chauvinistic comment...but that does show your immaturity..so I’m giving you some leeway to leave your short pants you are wearing and will offer you patience to grow Into long pants ..thus show a bit of emotional maturity...
Many are confused and have doubts....we need to speak consolingly to those who have doubts....I can see on this thread there are a lot of troublemakers who will not listen to reason...they are here to cause division and trouble....but you do not help a lot as you come over rather pious...and self righteous......and that’s only gives them fuel brother...
I advocate for trying to understand both sides of the coin..but always with Jehovah’s love and  compassion...but there does come  time where one has To draw a line in the sand With out right trouble  makers.
you have stated some good points in your comment brother...but you don’t have it all correct either..and nor do I....but at least I know that...
Those disgruntled women were once little girls who were raped...and angry men were little boys who were once raped...some over long periods of time...
They are in EVERY religion and organization world wide...most don’t even come to the attention of our elders...
I Thess 4,,,is good advice,,,for both of us ..so let us both stop continting with this activism.
 

Okay Billy  the kid...let me make one thing clear to you...I have not overlooked the massive amount of work the society has done in educating all about this problem...in fact I use it.......you are very self righteous and judgmental...and I can only assume still a bit of a kid...where you and I are different is I listen to these so called disgruntled women....and men.....who have been raped ......I cannot even beleive you made such a clearly chauvinistic comment...but that does show your immaturity..so I’m giving you some leeway to leave your short pants you are wearing and will offer you patience to grow Into long pants ..thus show a bit of emotional maturity...
Many are confused and have doubts....we need to speak consolingly to those who have doubts....I can see on this thread there are a lot of troublemakers who will not listen to reason...they are here to cause division and trouble....but you do not help a lot as you come over rather pious...and self righteous......and that’s only gives them fuel brother...
I advocate for trying to understand both sides of the coin..but always with Jehovah’s love and  compassion...but there does come  time where one has To draw a line in the sand With out right trouble  makers.
you have stated some good points in your comment brother...but you don’t have it all correct either..and nor do I....but at least I know that...
Those disgruntled women were once little girls who were raped...and angry men were little boys who were once raped...some over long periods of time...
They are in EVERY religion and organization world wide...most don’t even come to the attention of our elders...
I Thess 4,,,is good advice,,,for both of us ..so let us both stop continting with this activism.
 

Thanks for this question. Many years ago similar questions went through my mind, about what David's servants and people around him and Bathsheba feels and thinking when they had passively and actively participate in that scandal, affair. What power forces them to be involved in wrong deeds of prominent persons in their midst? Many levels in hierarchy, family members, counselors, personal servants, other servants, elders, military leaders, religiously important persons and many others. All of them knew something, heard something, witnessed to something, not done something, ....and many more to tell and to feel.
Live that  to your imagination, because it is not simple to me to express all thoughts and feels. Just to tell at the and -----draw some  parallels to modern time, and you will see how all is the same. Everything is repeated cyclically. :))

It's not on page 76. It's a document that is 76 pages long on the topic of how Jehovah's Witnesses have adapted their child abuse protection policies in different ways depending on the law in various countries. It appears to the author that this is inconsistent and unexpected in a religion that takes a stand as if Witnesses know better than the national laws, and that the Bible authority would allow Witnesses to stand above the law. But the author does not understand that such an outcome can actually be a sign of a consistent recognition of Romans 13:1-5. Still, it's a pretty fair assessment and presentation of the problem and doctrinal/historical response among Witnesses. A few things wrong, but more right than wrong.

I am very sorry to hear this John....I understand your reasoning but I would heavily ask you to consider the examples of Anna the prophetess and Simeon the Preist.....they lived amongst a lot of evil doings at the temple....yet they stayed and carried on with what they knew was required by them from Jehovah...
you are missing a lot of genuine love experienced among the brothers and sisters,,,having said that even brothers that give talks from the platform have stated that they are aware the love of the brotherhood Is cooling off.....but there is still a lot to be found...
John if you seen the apostles sitting at a table would you not be eager to join them...but would you turn your back on them if you seen Judas sitting there with full knowledge  about him...would you turn away from the good men for the sake of one bad man...
I wish you the best and I hope one day you can see where you learnt all about Jehovah’s kingdom and the wonderful hope that lies ahead...but you are being tested now...after all John....we serve Jehovah and not the watchtower.... but the watchtower/society is not perfect...we will always have errors and problems because ...well for many reasons.. but try for just a day...to look at the positives that Jehovah has fed us thru them....and be like Simeon and go about your business...

I think you have misunderstood my question brother...I just dont understand why Brother Jackson advised the Australian Government to make it mandatory in every state to report....why don’t we just do that ourselves..worldwide...
I also think we should be allowed to ask such honest question without being accused of engaging in conspiracy theories...
I totally back you as far as the great deceiver being at work on the internet..causing divisions and doubts amongs Jehovah’s people...there is no forum on the internet that is safe...

The GB have stated in true February 2016/2017 ..not sure of the dates ...that the FDS has not been appointed as of yet....and are yet to be judged...
They then went on in the last half of that article to state why they feel it is them and why they  feel Jesús will find in favour of them.....rather presumptuous of them I thought ....
Again..David was annoited and deliberately disobeyd Jehovah ...for his own selfish gain....just because you are annoited...or have been invited does not mean you are perfect...and besides many are invited and few chosen....
what would you have done if you knew about David’s sin....how would you have sorted that out????
 

I think you have misunderstood my question brother...I just dont understand why Brother Jackson advised the Australian Government to make it mandatory in every state to report....why don’t we just do that ourselves..worldwide...
I also think we should be allowed to ask such honest question without being accused of engaging in conspiracy theories...
I totally back you as far as the great deceiver being at work on the internet..causing divisions and doubts amongs Jehovah’s people...there is no forum on the internet that is safe...

But why do we need the law of the land to tell us to do the right thing?

Anyone who quotes pearl Doxcey as you have done ..is beyond understandimg  the big picture or Jehovah’s plan...sorry but I view you as a true apostate ...end of conversation !

But why do we need the law of the land to tell us to do the right thing?

Hey Brother Billie..your way out on this....it is undeniable if you watched the ARC...we as a people were found to have faulty policies...that’s a fact..we were forced to ammend them.
Kids suffered because elders did not report or advise them to go to authorities...we tried to handle it in house....because Jehovah’s name was involved...some of these kids were shoved aside by their spiritual elders...come on brother..we have to accept responsibility where we were wrong....
otherwise the Catholic Church can lay it all down on the parents as well...
we as a people would not handle cases of abuse as we once did....but back then we did shove it under the carpet in a number of cases.
The child suffered...having said that many were handled well as could be...but we dont hear about them.
The GB made the Policies brother...and now have amended the policies..
Keep in minds for those who will jump on this as proof we are not his people......the Catholic Church and Anglican  Chirch has a percentage of well over 50% ..I forget the actual number but I’ve quoted on the low side....Jehovah witnesses had a ratio of 1%
so this needs to be kept in perspective...
It was a era of naivety on our parts ..as parents and probably elders as well...it was a different time ....we trusted to much....but then again the apostles didn’t recognize Judas when he was amongst them either...
 
 
 
 
 
 

Hey Brother Billie..your way out on this....it is undeniable if you watched the ARC...we as a people were found to have faulty policies...that’s a fact..we were forced to ammend them.
Kids suffered because elders did not report or advise them to go to authorities...we tried to handle it in house....because Jehovah’s name was involved...some of these kids were shoved aside by their spiritual elders...come on brother..we have to accept responsibility where we were wrong....
otherwise the Catholic Church can lay it all down on the parents as well...
we as a people would not handle cases of abuse as we once did....but back then we did shove it under the carpet in a number of cases.
The child suffered...having said that many were handled well as could be...but we dont hear about them.
The GB made the Policies brother...and now have amended the policies..
Keep in minds for those who will jump on this as proof we are not his people......the Catholic Church and Anglican  Chirch has a percentage of well over 50% ..I forget the actual number but I’ve quoted on the low side....Jehovah witnesses had a ratio of 1%
so this needs to be kept in perspective...
It was a era of naivety on our parts ..as parents and probably elders as well...it was a different time ....we trusted to much....but then again the apostles didn’t recognize Judas when he was amongst them either...
 
 
 
 
 
 

Hey Brother Billie..your way out on this....it is undeniable if you watched the ARC...we as a people were found to have faulty policies...that’s a fact..we were forced to ammend them.
Kids suffered because elders did not report or advise them to go to authorities...we tried to handle it in house....because Jehovah’s name was involved...some of these kids were shoved aside by their spiritual elders...come on brother..we have to accept responsibility where we were wrong....
otherwise the Catholic Church can lay it all down on the parents as well...
we as a people would not handle cases of abuse as we once did....but back then we did shove it under the carpet in a number of cases.
The child suffered...having said that many were handled well as could be...but we dont hear about them.
The GB made the Policies brother...and now have amended the policies..
Keep in minds for those who will jump on this as proof we are not his people......the Catholic Church and Anglican  Chirch has a percentage of well over 50% ..I forget the actual number but I’ve quoted on the low side....Jehovah witnesses had a ratio of 1%
so this needs to be kept in perspective...
It was a era of naivety on our parts ..as parents and probably elders as well...it was a different time ....we trusted to much....but then again the apostles didn’t recognize Judas when he was amongst them either...
 
 
 
 
 
 

At a Circuit assembly we had a Bethel brother admit a number had been hurt by the organization...and were justified in their pain..he admited  we had problems with in the org..and even tho they are trying to fix them..he admitted they probably won’t  be fixed before the end comes....
when Jesus cleaned out the temple with whip etc...at no time did his apostles or any followers join him in doing that...so it will be when he returns....
He allowed Solomon and Saul to rule as kings for a long time after their falling away...
you honestly think any man..annoited or not can do what belongs To Christ...look at the pattern of his people....it’s not hard to work out....
There is a reason for him allowing things to be as they are.....

At a Circuit assembly we had a Bethel brother admit a number had been hurt by the organization...and were justified in their pain..he admited  we had problems with in the org..and even tho they are trying to fix them..he admitted they probably won’t  be fixed before the end comes....
when Jesus cleaned out the temple with whip etc...at no time did his apostles or any followers join him in doing that...so it will be when he returns....
He allowed Solomon and Saul to rule as kings for a long time after their falling away...
you honestly think any man..annoited or not can do what belongs To Christ...look at the pattern of his people....it’s not hard to work out....
There is a reason for him allowing things to be as they are.....

Hey Brother Billie..your way out on this....it is undeniable if you watched the ARC...we as a people were found to have faulty policies...that’s a fact..we were forced to ammend them.
Kids suffered because elders did not report or advise them to go to authorities...we tried to handle it in house....because Jehovah’s name was involved...some of these kids were shoved aside by their spiritual elders...come on brother..we have to accept responsibility where we were wrong....
otherwise the Catholic Church can lay it all down on the parents as well...
we as a people would not handle cases of abuse as we once did....but back then we did shove it under the carpet in a number of cases.
The child suffered...having said that many were handled well as could be...but we dont hear about them.
The GB made the Policies brother...and now have amended the policies..
Keep in minds for those who will jump on this as proof we are not his people......the Catholic Church and Anglican  Chirch has a percentage of well over 50% ..I forget the actual number but I’ve quoted on the low side....Jehovah witnesses had a ratio of 1%
so this needs to be kept in perspective...
It was a era of naivety on our parts ..as parents and probably elders as well...it was a different time ....we trusted to much....but then again the apostles didn’t recognize Judas when he was amongst them either...
 
 
 
 
 
 

Hey Brother Billie..your way out on this....it is undeniable if you watched the ARC...we as a people were found to have faulty policies...that’s a fact..we were forced to ammend them.
Kids suffered because elders did not report or advise them to go to authorities...we tried to handle it in house....because Jehovah’s name was involved...some of these kids were shoved aside by their spiritual elders...come on brother..we have to accept responsibility where we were wrong....
otherwise the Catholic Church can lay it all down on the parents as well...
we as a people would not handle cases of abuse as we once did....but back then we did shove it under the carpet in a number of cases.
The child suffered...having said that many were handled well as could be...but we dont hear about them.
The GB made the Policies brother...and now have amended the policies..
Keep in minds for those who will jump on this as proof we are not his people......the Catholic Church and Anglican  Chirch has a percentage of well over 50% ..I forget the actual number but I’ve quoted on the low side....Jehovah witnesses had a ratio of 1%
so this needs to be kept in perspective...
It was a era of naivety on our parts ..as parents and probably elders as well...it was a different time ....we trusted to much....but then again the apostles didn’t recognize Judas when he was amongst them either...
 
 
 
 
 
 

At a Circuit assembly we had a Bethel brother admit a number had been hurt by the organization...and were justified in their pain..he admited  we had problems with in the org..and even tho they are trying to fix them..he admitted they probably won’t  be fixed before the end comes....
when Jesus cleaned out the temple with whip etc...at no time did his apostles or any followers join him in doing that...so it will be when he returns....
He allowed Solomon and Saul to rule as kings for a long time after their falling away...
you honestly think any man..annoited or not can do what belongs To Christ...look at the pattern of his people....it’s not hard to work out....
There is a reason for him allowing things to be as they are.....

@Space Merchant2  In the final part of the days,The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, And it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream. 3  And many peoples will go and say:“Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.”For law will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.
Thank you S.M... Isaiah 2 v 2&3. 
  23  “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nations will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: “We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people. "    Zechariah 8 v23.    The Watchtower Study Edition April 12.  Life story by Leonard Smith :- THE Jewish man symbolizes anointed Christians, and the “ten men” represent the “other sheep,” or “Jonadabs,” as they were known back then. * (John 10:16)   Note he does not say the Jewish man symbolizes the Governing Body. He says the Jewish man symbolizes the Anointed Christians.  A big difference.     

I understand your points and you have expressed them very well. I will address each point you raised separately, but first I just want to mention a few general things which have perhaps shaped the perception of people like you and me. I grew up in the "truth" in the early 80's when the GB was mostly an anonymous mystery, at least to many who were living outside of America. The "truths" people like me assimilated during those years were turned into dogmatic doctrines by people like me. We always talked starting a phrase with "we KNOW....." as if we could never make a mistake. We had a general attitude of superiority. WE had the truth and therefor WE were somehow better than other people. WE had an answer for "everything".

And then came the age of the internet. It was a kind of "Internet enlightenment". It had been around for a while before that, but soon everybody had access to it, and was using it. Information that the ordinary person wouldn't have had before, became available to them at the touch of a button. There were things that were "discovered" by the ordinary brother and sister that were there all along, but that were only known by more prominent brothers and sisters, which included those involved with Bethel, but also ordinary brothers and sisters which happened to live closer to the "source" . But now the ordinary brother came to know things that at times "shocked" him, because in their little personal world they had built a picture, but that picture wasn't always correct. As I mentioned, dogmatic opinions on various subjects were formed, which actually were not intended to be understood that way. Here is an example of what I mean; I am sure you know of instances yourself, where a elder giving a talk would  expound on something he felt strongly about. A kind of "pet" subject of his. Most of the time the audience would take what he said as gospel truth, and talk about it like it was fact and part and parcel of "official" teachings. But all it actually was, was the brothers opinion. This happened many times  in the days of only a brief outline of a talk, giving the speaker much freedom to practically say anything he wanted.
A classic and famous example is that of Charles Sinutko giving the talk about 1975. He wasn't just an elder, but a district overseer, and he gave that misleading talk in front of an audience of thousands. Similar talks were given around the world no doubt. I was too young at the time but @Outta Here remembers such talks, and also the almost "fanatical" approach of some in the congregations. Was this all the GB's doing? It wasn't, but it shows the freedom that existed with regard to expressing ones opinion in an "official" setting, by means of talks etc. As you probably know, now there are strict outlines for talks. Not only that, but elders are instructed to Only give the Bible's advice when serving in a shepherding or judicial capacity, and never give their personal opinions. I am sure this new approach became a necessity because of the damage personal opinions had caused in the past.
One I want to focus on specifically  is the handling of child abuse. The congregation was well equipped to prevent child abuse on the surface. But it was all contingent on members actually reading and applying what was in the publications that discussed those issues. The JW congregation has always been very strict on upholding moral standards. In comparison, the rest of the world was in a moral decline (think "free love" that started in the 60's) and with it no doubt came problems associated with loose morals. Secular authorities were ill equipped to handle accusations of rape and child sexual abuse, as you yourself can testify.  In this environment Elders were trying to handle something that was disgusting and shocking and should have never occurred in the Christian congregation in the first place! Some Elders got confused and misapplied WT 1973/11/15 "question from readers" regarding the application of 1 Cor 6:1-7, and the interpretation of 1Timothy 5:19.  Many Elders were stuck between a rock and a hard place with regard to reporting to the police because of the way the police handled (or not handled) these cases, and because many victims and their families did not want to report to the police. It was almost like an attitude of: "this is our private problem, and we will handle it as our private problem". 
Finally today, secular authorities are educated and equipped enough to address these issues properly, and I would say we are at the pinnacle of "enlightenment" with regard to CSA, at least in the western world. Victims are at last able to come forward and be heard. Abusers are being tried and punished. This has also spilled into historic sexual abuse of women as in the #metoo brigade. BUT despite all this, CSA and the abuse of women is as rampant as ever unfortunately....

You have a good heart John and I feel you have unnecessarily thrown the baby out with the bathwater.
But I do want to address those issues individually that you mentioned, but I will have to do that tomorrow now as I am running out of time and have to go and cook dinner....
 

This is because people do not take into account the actions of those in the Bible, mainly those mentioned in the Old Testament, especially Moses, of whom there is a passage that prompts people to deny him and say they do not follow Moses, for they say this because they do not taken into context his actions, which was similar to that of King Saul.
For those who claim to read the Bible ignore these facts that is as clear as day, placed before them like the sun in the sky, for it is that obvious.
That being said, no Restorationist Christian in history, or ANY non-trinitarian, claim to be inspired, those who nullify by being spirit direct and or the holy spirit into the mix clearly have no idea of what the notion actually is - inspired and or not inspired prophets and or teachers.

Probably the same reason David got so much wrong and Peter, Samson,Moses..oh and Jonah 

Some probably thought these instructions were unreasonable (at the time):  
 “So Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves." John 6:53
Or this: "After these things the Lord designated seventy others and sent them forth by twos in advance of him into every city and place to which he himself was going to come." Luke 10:1.
Or even this :"Let the man on the housetop not come down to take the goods out of his house; and let the man in the field not return to the house to pick up his outer garment." Matt.24:17-18.