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Kosonen

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  1. Upvote
    Kosonen reacted to Witness in Gerrit Lösch   
    Gerrit Losch:  "I do not direct and have never directed..."
     
    Wikipedia:  Following a leadership dispute in the Bible Student movement, the Watch Tower Society remained associated with the branch of the movement that became known as Jehovah's Witnesses. In 1955, the corporation was renamed Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. In 1976, all activities of the Watch Tower Society were brought under the supervision of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses.
    In 1976, direction of the Watch Tower Society and of the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide came under the control of the Governing Body, reducing the power of the society's president. The society has described the change as "one of the most significant organizational readjustments in the modern-day history of Jehovah's Witnesses."
    Following the death of Knorr in 1977, subsequent presidents of the Watch Tower Society have been Frederick W. Franz (June 1977 – December 1992); Milton G. Henschel (December 1992 – October 2000), Don A. Adams (October 2000 – 2014) and Robert Ciranko (incumbent). Adams and Ciranko are considered "helpers" to the Governing Body, which retains authority over the corporations.
     "Keep Holding Men of That Sort Dear".  The Watchtower. 15 October 2015. p. 3. The Governing Body members make the final decisions, but the helpers implement the committee's direction and carry out whatever assignments they are given. The helpers accompany Governing Body members to special and international conventions. They may also be assigned to visit branch offices as headquarters representatives. ... Helpers to Governing Body Committees ... Publishing Committee—Don Adams ... Writing Committee—Robert Ciranko...
     
    Sounds like Mr. Losch is just plain lying.  
     
     
     
     
  2. Like
    Kosonen got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in ARE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES IDOLATERS?   
    Isaiah 66: 5  Hear the word of Jehovah, you who tremble at his word:“Your brothers who hate you and exclude you because of my name said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!’ But He will appear and bring you joy, And they are the ones who will be put to shame.”
    The WT organization wrongfully excludes sincere believers in Jehovah God and his word. Looks like this prophecy in Isaiah is just about that.
  3. Like
    Kosonen got a reaction from Matthew9969 in Elders instructed by Bethel to hide murderer from police.   
    So sad that Jehovah's witnesses do not follow the direction in God's word where openly confessing sins is the pattern. I mean no confidential sins.
    For example Matthew 35  Then the people of Jerusalem and all Ju·deʹa and all the country around the Jordan were going out to him,+ 6  and they were baptized* by him in the Jordan River,+ openly confessing their sins.
    So this brother should have openly before the whole congregation confessed of his murders before getting baptized.
  4. Upvote
    Kosonen reacted to JOHN BUTLER in Open Club, Private Club, JW club   
    @JW Insider I think you put your faith in the Gb and it's Org, not in God.   And when the message from that org keeps changing to suit the GB then how can anyone put faith in it ? 
    When the legal dept can be seen as telling lies in courtrooms, the elders can be seen acting as policemen and just obeying the GB, and the congregations being frightened not of God but of the Gb and the Elders, then how can anyone even trust such an organisation ? 
  5. Upvote
    Kosonen reacted to JW Insider in FOUR problems with latest "GENERATION" teaching   
    There are evidently FOUR basic problems in the latest explanation of the "GENERATION" teaching. Of course, this is the teaching based on Jesus' words in Matthew 24:34 where he says that "This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur." The latest update to the explanation is that Jesus was referring to two groups of anointed persons: the first group who could discern the meaning of the sign they witnessed in 1914, and a second group of anointed persons, whose lives overlapped with that first group.
    #1. It creates a set time limit for Armageddon to occur. #2. It is based on the idea that the date 1914 was predicted in the Bible. #3. It is based on a false definition of the word "generation." #4. It is based on a false premise about a supposed belief in 1914 that didn't even exist in 1914. If we're serious about:
    paying constant attention to ourselves and our teaching, (1 Tim 4:16) handling the word of God aright, having nothing to be ashamed of, (2 Tim 2:15) not paying attention to false stories, (1 Tim 1:4-7) making sure of all things, (1 Thess 5:21) knowing that teachers will receive heavier judgment, etc., (James 3:1) then we would not be very good Christians if any of us taught something that we were not sure about.
    On this forum, participants have already dealt extensively with #1 and #2 above, but there has not yet been a thorough discussion and focus on points #3 and #4.
  6. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in Geoffrey Jackson: Questions and Answers   
    And so much he tried to deceive the officials that the Governing Body are not in control of the Jehovah's witnesses. Already the thing that they call themselves the Governing Body makes it clear.
    But it is true that the GB has no formal registered authority within the WT corporation. Because the president of the WT corporation is a non anointed brother. 
    Seems that is a tactic to protect the GB from lawsuits. Instead it is the WT society that faces the law suits. 
    It would be fun if the non-anointed President of the WT corporation would stop obeying the GB and would instead choose to take directions from other anointed.
  7. Downvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from Foreigner in RECLAIMED VOICES new letter to JW brothers and sisters.   
    That about Russia can not be true neither with arguments presented in the WT literature. Because in Daniel 11 there is a chronological order of events. The WT rightly puts Daniel 11:31 in to the future. So the following scriptures should also be in the future. Look at this statement for example: 
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1999323#h=22:0-28:761
    "16 Since the start of the great tribulation is yet future, is the “standing in a holy place” still ahead of us? Evidently so. While “the disgusting thing” made its appearance early in this century and has, thus, existed for decades, it will take a position in a unique way “in a holy place” in the near future."
    We see that the WT teaches that "the disgusting thing" will be standing in a holy place in the future. But in the same time they want to say that the "disgusting thing" has already been standing on the holy place. Can they not decide how they want to have it? Apparently not, because they feel they have to in some way tie all prophecies as close down to 1914 as possible. 
    And the same time they understand that "the disgusting thing standing on the holy place" should follow the pattern of the events in the first century, as stated here:
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001193#h=11:0-12:484
     "Additional prophecies of a disgusting thing. It should be noted, however, that Daniel 11:31-35 and 12:9, 11 connect a ‘disgusting thing causing desolation’ with “the time of the end.” It is reasonable that the development of this latter expression of ‘the disgusting thing causing desolation’ in the time of the end should follow the general pattern of that in the first century C.E., though not being restricted to the land of Israel."
    And then WT literature explains :
    18 Immediately after coming to power, Hitler launched a vicious attack against “the holy covenant,” represented by the anointed brothers of Jesus Christ. (Matthew 25:40) In this he acted “effectively” against these loyal Christians, cruelly persecuting many of them. Hitler enjoyed economic and diplomatic successes, acting “effectively” in those fields also. In a few years, he made Germany a power to be reckoned with on the world scene.
    "20 Hitler soon went to war, as the angel had correctly foretold: “There will be arms that will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will actually profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature.” (Daniel 11:31a) The “arms” were the military forces that the king of the north used in order to fight the king of the south in World War II. On September 1, 1939, Nazi “arms” invaded Poland. Two days later, Britain and France declared war on Germany in order to help Poland. Thus began World War II. Poland collapsed quickly, and soon thereafter, German forces occupied Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, and France. “At the end of 1941,” says The World Book Encyclopedia, “Nazi Germany dominated the continent.”" 
    22 “They [Nazi arms] will actually profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature,” said the angel. In ancient Judah the sanctuary was part of the temple in Jerusalem. However, when the Jews rejected Jesus, Jehovah rejected them and their temple. (Matthew 23:37–24:2) Since the first century C.E., Jehovah’s temple has actually been a spiritual one, with its holy of holies in the heavens and with a spiritual courtyard on earth, in which the anointed brothers of Jesus, the High Priest, serve. From the 1930’s onward, the “great crowd” have worshiped in association with the anointed remnant and are therefore said to serve ‘in God’s temple.’ (Revelation 7:9, 15; 11:1, 2; Hebrews 9:11, 12,24) In lands under his control, the king of the north profaned the earthly courtyard of the temple by relentlessly persecuting the anointed remnant and their companions. So severe was the persecution that “the constant feature”—the public sacrifice of praise to Jehovah’s name—was removed. (Hebrews 13:15) Despite horrible suffering, however, faithful anointed Christians together with the “other sheep” kept on preaching during World War II.—John 10:16.
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101999035#h=15 (The obove quote)
    But this is so wrong, Germany did not cause the profanation of the "sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature" in  USA. And the scripture is talking about arms not against nations like Poland but arms against the sanctuary, the fortress associated with the sanctuary and the constant feature or sacrifice.
    Shortly, the WT should rewrite all the explanations to prophecies they have applied to the last 100+ years. And come up with the true explanations. 
    Even most churches are wise enough to understand that the 1260 etc days belong to the final years before Christ Jesus' return. How stupid can the WT leadership really be?
  8. Haha
    Kosonen got a reaction from Foreigner in RECLAIMED VOICES new letter to JW brothers and sisters.   
    Hi dear sister Arauna, 
    I understand that the information I provided overwhelmed you. At the meetings during 2 decades there would not be as much new light as I just posted.
    And I see that you as all other witnesses feel very unsure about how to understand, let alone explain all the scriptures about 1260, 1290, 1335 days and 42 months and time, times and half a time.
    I think you would appreciate what I wrote today if you first really tried to fully comprehend the WT literatures explanations. I know you will come into a dead end because those explanations do nor add up. But give it a serious try and pray Jeahovah to make you understand. And see if you will be able to understand. 
    But a simple alternative  I will present here:
    Daniel 12:6 “How long will it be to the end of these marvelous things?”.........“It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time.* As soon as the dashing to pieces of the power of the holy people comes to an end,+ all these things will come to their finish.”
    11  “And from the time that the constant feature*+has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place,+ there will be 1,290 days.12  “Happy is the one who keeps in expectation*and who arrives at the 1,335 days!
    Daniel 11:31  And arms* will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary,+ the fortress, and remove the constant feature.*+“And they will put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation.+
    Daniel 7:25  He will speak words against the Most High,+ and he will continually harass the holy ones of the Supreme One. He will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.*+ 26  But the Court sat, and they took away his rulership, in order to annihilate him and to destroy him completely.+27  “‘And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One.+ Their kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,+ and all rulerships will serve and obey them.’28  “This is the end of the matter. 
    So Aruna where do you see the 1260, 1290, 1335 days/time, times and half a time are placed in these scriptures? Is it not right before Christ's millenial rule?
     
  9. Upvote
  10. Like
    Kosonen got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in RECLAIMED VOICES new letter to JW brothers and sisters.   
    That about Russia can not be true neither with arguments presented in the WT literature. Because in Daniel 11 there is a chronological order of events. The WT rightly puts Daniel 11:31 in to the future. So the following scriptures should also be in the future. Look at this statement for example: 
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1999323#h=22:0-28:761
    "16 Since the start of the great tribulation is yet future, is the “standing in a holy place” still ahead of us? Evidently so. While “the disgusting thing” made its appearance early in this century and has, thus, existed for decades, it will take a position in a unique way “in a holy place” in the near future."
    We see that the WT teaches that "the disgusting thing" will be standing in a holy place in the future. But in the same time they want to say that the "disgusting thing" has already been standing on the holy place. Can they not decide how they want to have it? Apparently not, because they feel they have to in some way tie all prophecies as close down to 1914 as possible. 
    And the same time they understand that "the disgusting thing standing on the holy place" should follow the pattern of the events in the first century, as stated here:
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200001193#h=11:0-12:484
     "Additional prophecies of a disgusting thing. It should be noted, however, that Daniel 11:31-35 and 12:9, 11 connect a ‘disgusting thing causing desolation’ with “the time of the end.” It is reasonable that the development of this latter expression of ‘the disgusting thing causing desolation’ in the time of the end should follow the general pattern of that in the first century C.E., though not being restricted to the land of Israel."
    And then WT literature explains :
    18 Immediately after coming to power, Hitler launched a vicious attack against “the holy covenant,” represented by the anointed brothers of Jesus Christ. (Matthew 25:40) In this he acted “effectively” against these loyal Christians, cruelly persecuting many of them. Hitler enjoyed economic and diplomatic successes, acting “effectively” in those fields also. In a few years, he made Germany a power to be reckoned with on the world scene.
    "20 Hitler soon went to war, as the angel had correctly foretold: “There will be arms that will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will actually profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature.” (Daniel 11:31a) The “arms” were the military forces that the king of the north used in order to fight the king of the south in World War II. On September 1, 1939, Nazi “arms” invaded Poland. Two days later, Britain and France declared war on Germany in order to help Poland. Thus began World War II. Poland collapsed quickly, and soon thereafter, German forces occupied Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, and France. “At the end of 1941,” says The World Book Encyclopedia, “Nazi Germany dominated the continent.”" 
    22 “They [Nazi arms] will actually profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature,” said the angel. In ancient Judah the sanctuary was part of the temple in Jerusalem. However, when the Jews rejected Jesus, Jehovah rejected them and their temple. (Matthew 23:37–24:2) Since the first century C.E., Jehovah’s temple has actually been a spiritual one, with its holy of holies in the heavens and with a spiritual courtyard on earth, in which the anointed brothers of Jesus, the High Priest, serve. From the 1930’s onward, the “great crowd” have worshiped in association with the anointed remnant and are therefore said to serve ‘in God’s temple.’ (Revelation 7:9, 15; 11:1, 2; Hebrews 9:11, 12,24) In lands under his control, the king of the north profaned the earthly courtyard of the temple by relentlessly persecuting the anointed remnant and their companions. So severe was the persecution that “the constant feature”—the public sacrifice of praise to Jehovah’s name—was removed. (Hebrews 13:15) Despite horrible suffering, however, faithful anointed Christians together with the “other sheep” kept on preaching during World War II.—John 10:16.
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101999035#h=15 (The obove quote)
    But this is so wrong, Germany did not cause the profanation of the "sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature" in  USA. And the scripture is talking about arms not against nations like Poland but arms against the sanctuary, the fortress associated with the sanctuary and the constant feature or sacrifice.
    Shortly, the WT should rewrite all the explanations to prophecies they have applied to the last 100+ years. And come up with the true explanations. 
    Even most churches are wise enough to understand that the 1260 etc days belong to the final years before Christ Jesus' return. How stupid can the WT leadership really be?
  11. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in "As the clay in the hand of the potter, so you are in my hand, O house of Israel."—Jer. 18:6 ~⚱️   
    @Bible Speaks  It is a good thing to be maellable in God's hands instead of being stiff-necked as the Isrealites were.
    And as long as the elders really give advise strictly according to the scripture it is good to listen to their advice. But unfortunately a whole lot of their advices based on the WT and elders' letters are commandments of men and  WT org traditions and falsely applied scriptures. The same old things happens as when Jesus was on earth. Those who were responsible of the spiritual education in Israel and those who served at God's temple had gone astray in many aspects. And when Jesus tried to correct them, majority of them refused to be corrected. 
    So how will it be this time when the judgement will begin with the house of God as apostle Peter wrote? Hopefully a majority will not refuse to be corrected. But who knows? 
     
     
  12. Like
    Kosonen got a reaction from Jack Ryan in Predestination ? Life planned before birth ? Chosen before birth ?   
    @JOHN BUTLER  could be that God sees the genetics and the circumstances a person is born to and can then largely see the path of a person. 
  13. Upvote
    Kosonen reacted to JOHN BUTLER in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    Quote @BillyTheKid46  "It seems you’re the one that is an organizational-pleaser just like Srecko, Butler, Witness, and whoever opposes the teaching of Christ .."
    Kid you said and i quote "Let’s look at things in a rational realm of realism ..." 
    Well I left the JW Org because of all the Child Abuse within it. Now you either believe that it has happened and is still happening, or you don't.  But I think it has been proven to be in the 'rational realm of realism' that you are looking for..  If you think it is all lies of course then I suppose we have no basis for conversation. But i think many cases have been well proven to be true.
    So please tell, with proof of course, exactly what organisation you think i am trying to please. I am opposing the rulers of an earthly organisation, and  'in a rational realm of realism' I am opposing those leaders of an earthly organisation, namely the Governing Body of the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses. That same Governing Body rules over the Watchtower Soc'. So you may say that i am opposing the rulers of that Watchtower Soc'.  Because in a rational realm of realism, you cannot oppose an inanimate object. I am also opposing anyone that blindly serves the Governing Body of those two 'organisations', which will of course include the Elders of congregations within the JW Organisation, and any others, such as the people of the Writing department, Bethel workers, and some ordinary members of congregations too. My opposition is not fierce, not aggressive, it's assertive. 
    As for opposing the teachings of Christ, that is a strong accusation. What proof do you have that i oppose the teachings of Christ ?
    I believe as much of the Bible as i can understand. I think that is an honest statement. I don't pretend to be able to interpret all scripture. I am a sinner as is everyone here on this earth. But my reason for leaving the JW Org was a genuine one and since leaving i have done further research into the GB / writing dept' / Watchtower / JW Org, and have found it desperately failing to do God's will. 
    It seems that you " compare the teachings of false religion with that of the Watchtower " I prefer to compare the teachings of the Watchtower to that of God's written word the Bible. Why would i even be interested in the teachings of false religion ? 
    I would ask that if you reply please keep your answer within the 'rational realm of realism' that you seem to want to view things through. In doing so you would need to give proof of any accusations against me. 
  14. Haha
    Kosonen got a reaction from Foreigner in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    Billy, you wrote that you understand my argument in a post above. So what is your problem?
    And I suppose you agree that Jesus' brothers are the anointed.
    And what good would it make to answer your question if God has personally revealed the truth to me? To understand the word of God we don't need to hear literally God's voice. It is enough that we study his word and tie the prophecies to events that we see happen. God's invisible spirit can just make us see and understand what is really happening. 
    And I am really not a man pleaser. I got disfellowshiped from the organization because I tried to show the elders and members of the congregation several things that were false in the WT teaching.
    And I am not worried if I am popular or not. It is more important for me to give spiritual food timely than to be late.
     
     
  15. Haha
    Kosonen got a reaction from Foreigner in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    Look here for example how the GB wants that local anointed would be treated. 
    You are not even allowed to ask the anointed about their anointing!!! I guess you could get disfellowshipped for that? How crazy is not that?
    And paragraph 11 insinuates that the local anointed could well be "false brothers" and imposters. GB just says that to make sure you don't trust your local anointed. That is wicked! 
    Now the GB really discourages to do anything specially for the local anointed. Just the opposite what Jesus told. I wonder how many Jehovah's witnesses will continue that fatal course until the end?
    Here are the recent instructions from GB:
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2016046#h=18:0-21:581
    10 How can we show appropriate respect for those whom Jehovah chooses to anoint? We would not ask them personal questions about their anointing. We thus avoid meddling with what does not concern us. (1 Thess. 4:11; 2 Thess. 3:11) We should not assume that the parents, spouse, or other relatives of one of the anointed would also be anointed. Genetics or marriage play no part in the process. (1 Thess. 2:12) We should also resist the urge to quiz spouses of anointed ones about how they feel knowing that they will live without their mate in the future earthly Paradise. Rather than raise questions that may cause pain, all of us can have full confidence that Jehovah will open his hand and “satisfy the desire of every living thing.”—Ps. 145:16.
    11. How do we protect ourselves if we avoid “admiring personalities”?
    11 Those who treat anointed Christians in a proper manner protect themselves from an insidious danger. The Scriptures tell us that “false brothers” can slip into the congregation. (Gal. 2:4, 5; 1 John 2:19) These impostors may even claim to be anointed. In addition, some anointed Christians might fall away from the faith. (Matt. 25:10-12;2 Pet. 2:20, 21) If we avoid the trap of “admiring personalities,” we will not be drawn away from the truth by such ones; nor will our faith suffer a crippling blow if a prominent or long-serving Christian becomes unfaithful.—Jude 16, ftn.
  16. Haha
    Kosonen got a reaction from Foreigner in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    @BillyTheKid46 please Billy look what the WT taught in 1995. And compare that to what the current Governing Body/"Sanhedrin" teaches. There is a huge difference. The GB has in fact apostatized from the earlier more correct understanding of the truth. And especially in the subject how anointed individuals should be regarded and treated.
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1995765#h=8:73-9:746
    7 We read concerning the judging of the sheep: “[Jesus] will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I got thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; naked, and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty, and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked, and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to you?’ And in reply the king will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, To the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’”—Matthew 25:34-40.
    8 Obviously, the sheep judged worthy of being on Jesus’ right side of honor and favor represent a class of humans. (Ephesians 1:20; Hebrews 1:3) What did they do and when? Jesus says that they kindly, respectfully, and generously gave him food, drink, and clothing, aiding him when he was sick or in prison. When the sheep say that they had not done this to Jesus personally, he points out that they did support his spiritual brothers, the remnant of anointed Christians, so in that sense they did it to him.
    9. Why does the parable not apply during the Millennium?
    9 The parable does not apply during the Millennium, for the anointed will not then be humans suffering hunger, thirst, sickness, or imprisonment. Many of them, though, have experienced such during the conclusion of this system of things. Ever since Satan was cast down to earth, he has made the remnant a special object of his fury, bringing on them ridicule, torture, and death.—Revelation 12:17.
    10, 11. (a) Why is it unreasonable to think that the sheep include everyone doing a kind deed to Jesus’ brothers? (b) Whom do the sheep fittingly represent?
    10 Is Jesus saying that everyone doing a small kindness to one of his brothers, such as offering a piece of bread or a glass of water, qualifies as one of these sheep? Granted, rendering such kindnesses may reflect human kindness, but really, it seems that much more is involved with the sheep of this parable. Jesus was hardly referring, for example, to atheists or clergymen who happen to do a kind act to one of his brothers. On the contrary, Jesus twice called the sheep “righteous ones.” (Matthew 25:37, 46) So the sheep must be ones who over a period of time have come to the aid of—actively supporting—Christ’s brothers and have exercised faith to the extent of receiving a righteous standing before God.
    11 Over the centuries, many such as Abraham have enjoyed a righteous standing. (James 2:21-23) Noah, Abraham, and other faithful ones count among the “other sheep” who will inherit life in Paradise under God’s Kingdom. In recent times millions more have taken up true worship as other sheep and have become “one flock” with the anointed. (John 10:16;Revelation 7:9) These with earthly hopes recognize Jesus’ brothers as ambassadors of the Kingdom and have therefore aided them—literally and spiritually. Jesus counts as done to him what the other sheep do for his brothers on earth. Such ones who are alive when he comes to judge the nations will be judged as sheep.
    12. Why might the sheep ask how they had done kindnesses to Jesus?
    12 If the other sheep are now preaching the good news with the anointed and aiding them, why would they ask: “Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty, and give you something to drink?” (Matthew 25:37) There could be various reasons. This is a parable. By means of it, Jesus shows his deep concern for his spiritual brothers; he feels with them, suffers with them. Jesus had earlier said: “He that receives you receives me also, and he that receives me receives him also that sent me forth.” (Matthew 10:40) In this illustration, Jesus extends the principle, showing that what is done (good or bad) to his brothers reaches even into heaven; it is as if it is done to him in heaven. Also, Jesus here emphasizes Jehovah’s standard for judging, making it clear that God’s judgment, whether favorable or condemnatory, is valid and just. The goats cannot offer the excuse, ‘Well, if only we had seen you directly.’
    13. Why might goatlike ones address Jesus as “Lord”?
    13 Once we appreciate when it is that the judgment shown in this parable is rendered, we get a clearer view of who the goats are. The fulfillment is when “the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming . . . with power and great glory.” (Matthew 24:29, 30) Survivors of the tribulation on Babylon the Great who have treated the King’s brothers despitefully may now desperately address the Judge as “Lord,” hoping to save their lives.—Matthew 7:22, 23; compare Revelation 6:15-17.
    14. On what basis will Jesus judge the sheep and the goats?
    14 However, Jesus’ judgment will not be based on desperate claims from former churchgoers, atheists, or others. (2 Thessalonians 1:8) Instead, the judge will review the heart condition and past actions of people toward even “one of these least ones [of his brothers].” Admittedly, the number of anointed Christians left on earth is declining. However, as long as the anointed, making up “the faithful and discreet slave,” continue to provide spiritual food and direction, prospective sheep have an opportunity to do good to the slave class, just as the ‘great crowd out of all nations and tribes and peoples’ have done.—Revelation 7:9, 14.
  17. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from Witness in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    Look here for example how the GB wants that local anointed would be treated. 
    You are not even allowed to ask the anointed about their anointing!!! I guess you could get disfellowshipped for that? How crazy is not that?
    And paragraph 11 insinuates that the local anointed could well be "false brothers" and imposters. GB just says that to make sure you don't trust your local anointed. That is wicked! 
    Now the GB really discourages to do anything specially for the local anointed. Just the opposite what Jesus told. I wonder how many Jehovah's witnesses will continue that fatal course until the end?
    Here are the recent instructions from GB:
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2016046#h=18:0-21:581
    10 How can we show appropriate respect for those whom Jehovah chooses to anoint? We would not ask them personal questions about their anointing. We thus avoid meddling with what does not concern us. (1 Thess. 4:11; 2 Thess. 3:11) We should not assume that the parents, spouse, or other relatives of one of the anointed would also be anointed. Genetics or marriage play no part in the process. (1 Thess. 2:12) We should also resist the urge to quiz spouses of anointed ones about how they feel knowing that they will live without their mate in the future earthly Paradise. Rather than raise questions that may cause pain, all of us can have full confidence that Jehovah will open his hand and “satisfy the desire of every living thing.”—Ps. 145:16.
    11. How do we protect ourselves if we avoid “admiring personalities”?
    11 Those who treat anointed Christians in a proper manner protect themselves from an insidious danger. The Scriptures tell us that “false brothers” can slip into the congregation. (Gal. 2:4, 5; 1 John 2:19) These impostors may even claim to be anointed. In addition, some anointed Christians might fall away from the faith. (Matt. 25:10-12;2 Pet. 2:20, 21) If we avoid the trap of “admiring personalities,” we will not be drawn away from the truth by such ones; nor will our faith suffer a crippling blow if a prominent or long-serving Christian becomes unfaithful.—Jude 16, ftn.
  18. Thanks
    Kosonen reacted to Srecko Sostar in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    Kosonen, thanks for your efforts in searching for WT quotes and presentation of same materials!
    This reveals how GB operates. "Blind" people have one more chance to see The Real Truth. 
  19. Thanks
    Kosonen got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    Look here for example how the GB wants that local anointed would be treated. 
    You are not even allowed to ask the anointed about their anointing!!! I guess you could get disfellowshipped for that? How crazy is not that?
    And paragraph 11 insinuates that the local anointed could well be "false brothers" and imposters. GB just says that to make sure you don't trust your local anointed. That is wicked! 
    Now the GB really discourages to do anything specially for the local anointed. Just the opposite what Jesus told. I wonder how many Jehovah's witnesses will continue that fatal course until the end?
    Here are the recent instructions from GB:
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2016046#h=18:0-21:581
    10 How can we show appropriate respect for those whom Jehovah chooses to anoint? We would not ask them personal questions about their anointing. We thus avoid meddling with what does not concern us. (1 Thess. 4:11; 2 Thess. 3:11) We should not assume that the parents, spouse, or other relatives of one of the anointed would also be anointed. Genetics or marriage play no part in the process. (1 Thess. 2:12) We should also resist the urge to quiz spouses of anointed ones about how they feel knowing that they will live without their mate in the future earthly Paradise. Rather than raise questions that may cause pain, all of us can have full confidence that Jehovah will open his hand and “satisfy the desire of every living thing.”—Ps. 145:16.
    11. How do we protect ourselves if we avoid “admiring personalities”?
    11 Those who treat anointed Christians in a proper manner protect themselves from an insidious danger. The Scriptures tell us that “false brothers” can slip into the congregation. (Gal. 2:4, 5; 1 John 2:19) These impostors may even claim to be anointed. In addition, some anointed Christians might fall away from the faith. (Matt. 25:10-12;2 Pet. 2:20, 21) If we avoid the trap of “admiring personalities,” we will not be drawn away from the truth by such ones; nor will our faith suffer a crippling blow if a prominent or long-serving Christian becomes unfaithful.—Jude 16, ftn.
  20. Upvote
    Kosonen reacted to JOHN BUTLER in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    16 Not all who have the heavenly hope are part of “the faithful and discreet slave.”   
    (From the same 2016 Watchtower as quoted above by Kosonen) 
    Who has the right to say this ?  Who has the right to put that in print ?  Note is does not say 'those that might think they have the heavenly hope'. It actually says  Not all who have the heavenly hope ... 
    The GB of the JW org approve of this being written and used at meetings of JW's. So the GB themselves are judging the other MEMBERS OF THE BODY OF CHRIST'S BRIDE. The GB are judging those of the 144,000 chosen ones. 
    Has God or Jesus Christ given the GB the right to do the judging ?  I would not think so. 
  21. Thanks
    Kosonen got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    Look here for example how the GB wants that local anointed would be treated. 
    You are not even allowed to ask the anointed about their anointing!!! I guess you could get disfellowshipped for that? How crazy is not that?
    And paragraph 11 insinuates that the local anointed could well be "false brothers" and imposters. GB just says that to make sure you don't trust your local anointed. That is wicked! 
    Now the GB really discourages to do anything specially for the local anointed. Just the opposite what Jesus told. I wonder how many Jehovah's witnesses will continue that fatal course until the end?
    Here are the recent instructions from GB:
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2016046#h=18:0-21:581
    10 How can we show appropriate respect for those whom Jehovah chooses to anoint? We would not ask them personal questions about their anointing. We thus avoid meddling with what does not concern us. (1 Thess. 4:11; 2 Thess. 3:11) We should not assume that the parents, spouse, or other relatives of one of the anointed would also be anointed. Genetics or marriage play no part in the process. (1 Thess. 2:12) We should also resist the urge to quiz spouses of anointed ones about how they feel knowing that they will live without their mate in the future earthly Paradise. Rather than raise questions that may cause pain, all of us can have full confidence that Jehovah will open his hand and “satisfy the desire of every living thing.”—Ps. 145:16.
    11. How do we protect ourselves if we avoid “admiring personalities”?
    11 Those who treat anointed Christians in a proper manner protect themselves from an insidious danger. The Scriptures tell us that “false brothers” can slip into the congregation. (Gal. 2:4, 5; 1 John 2:19) These impostors may even claim to be anointed. In addition, some anointed Christians might fall away from the faith. (Matt. 25:10-12;2 Pet. 2:20, 21) If we avoid the trap of “admiring personalities,” we will not be drawn away from the truth by such ones; nor will our faith suffer a crippling blow if a prominent or long-serving Christian becomes unfaithful.—Jude 16, ftn.
  22. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    @BillyTheKid46 please Billy look what the WT taught in 1995. And compare that to what the current Governing Body/"Sanhedrin" teaches. There is a huge difference. The GB has in fact apostatized from the earlier more correct understanding of the truth. And especially in the subject how anointed individuals should be regarded and treated.
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1995765#h=8:73-9:746
    7 We read concerning the judging of the sheep: “[Jesus] will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I got thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; naked, and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty, and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked, and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to you?’ And in reply the king will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, To the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’”—Matthew 25:34-40.
    8 Obviously, the sheep judged worthy of being on Jesus’ right side of honor and favor represent a class of humans. (Ephesians 1:20; Hebrews 1:3) What did they do and when? Jesus says that they kindly, respectfully, and generously gave him food, drink, and clothing, aiding him when he was sick or in prison. When the sheep say that they had not done this to Jesus personally, he points out that they did support his spiritual brothers, the remnant of anointed Christians, so in that sense they did it to him.
    9. Why does the parable not apply during the Millennium?
    9 The parable does not apply during the Millennium, for the anointed will not then be humans suffering hunger, thirst, sickness, or imprisonment. Many of them, though, have experienced such during the conclusion of this system of things. Ever since Satan was cast down to earth, he has made the remnant a special object of his fury, bringing on them ridicule, torture, and death.—Revelation 12:17.
    10, 11. (a) Why is it unreasonable to think that the sheep include everyone doing a kind deed to Jesus’ brothers? (b) Whom do the sheep fittingly represent?
    10 Is Jesus saying that everyone doing a small kindness to one of his brothers, such as offering a piece of bread or a glass of water, qualifies as one of these sheep? Granted, rendering such kindnesses may reflect human kindness, but really, it seems that much more is involved with the sheep of this parable. Jesus was hardly referring, for example, to atheists or clergymen who happen to do a kind act to one of his brothers. On the contrary, Jesus twice called the sheep “righteous ones.” (Matthew 25:37, 46) So the sheep must be ones who over a period of time have come to the aid of—actively supporting—Christ’s brothers and have exercised faith to the extent of receiving a righteous standing before God.
    11 Over the centuries, many such as Abraham have enjoyed a righteous standing. (James 2:21-23) Noah, Abraham, and other faithful ones count among the “other sheep” who will inherit life in Paradise under God’s Kingdom. In recent times millions more have taken up true worship as other sheep and have become “one flock” with the anointed. (John 10:16;Revelation 7:9) These with earthly hopes recognize Jesus’ brothers as ambassadors of the Kingdom and have therefore aided them—literally and spiritually. Jesus counts as done to him what the other sheep do for his brothers on earth. Such ones who are alive when he comes to judge the nations will be judged as sheep.
    12. Why might the sheep ask how they had done kindnesses to Jesus?
    12 If the other sheep are now preaching the good news with the anointed and aiding them, why would they ask: “Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty, and give you something to drink?” (Matthew 25:37) There could be various reasons. This is a parable. By means of it, Jesus shows his deep concern for his spiritual brothers; he feels with them, suffers with them. Jesus had earlier said: “He that receives you receives me also, and he that receives me receives him also that sent me forth.” (Matthew 10:40) In this illustration, Jesus extends the principle, showing that what is done (good or bad) to his brothers reaches even into heaven; it is as if it is done to him in heaven. Also, Jesus here emphasizes Jehovah’s standard for judging, making it clear that God’s judgment, whether favorable or condemnatory, is valid and just. The goats cannot offer the excuse, ‘Well, if only we had seen you directly.’
    13. Why might goatlike ones address Jesus as “Lord”?
    13 Once we appreciate when it is that the judgment shown in this parable is rendered, we get a clearer view of who the goats are. The fulfillment is when “the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming . . . with power and great glory.” (Matthew 24:29, 30) Survivors of the tribulation on Babylon the Great who have treated the King’s brothers despitefully may now desperately address the Judge as “Lord,” hoping to save their lives.—Matthew 7:22, 23; compare Revelation 6:15-17.
    14. On what basis will Jesus judge the sheep and the goats?
    14 However, Jesus’ judgment will not be based on desperate claims from former churchgoers, atheists, or others. (2 Thessalonians 1:8) Instead, the judge will review the heart condition and past actions of people toward even “one of these least ones [of his brothers].” Admittedly, the number of anointed Christians left on earth is declining. However, as long as the anointed, making up “the faithful and discreet slave,” continue to provide spiritual food and direction, prospective sheep have an opportunity to do good to the slave class, just as the ‘great crowd out of all nations and tribes and peoples’ have done.—Revelation 7:9, 14.
  23. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from JOHN BUTLER in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    Billy, have you not remarked that GB manipulates the scripture? Jesus told people to do good in practical ways to his brothers, the anointed. But GB says you should not. Instead you should only preach.
    Can't you see that they discourage to do exactly what Jesus told you should do? And Jesus even warned that if you will not do good to his brothers by taking care of them you will be condemned to death. 
    In reality if you obey GB in this aspect till the end you will be condemned by Jesus.
    Matthew 25:45  Then he will answer them, saying: ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of these least ones, you did not do it to me.’+ 46  These will depart into everlasting cutting-off,*+ but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”+
  24. Confused
    Kosonen got a reaction from Foreigner in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    Billy, have you not remarked that GB manipulates the scripture? Jesus told people to do good in practical ways to his brothers, the anointed. But GB says you should not. Instead you should only preach.
    Can't you see that they discourage to do exactly what Jesus told you should do? And Jesus even warned that if you will not do good to his brothers by taking care of them you will be condemned to death. 
    In reality if you obey GB in this aspect till the end you will be condemned by Jesus.
    Matthew 25:45  Then he will answer them, saying: ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of these least ones, you did not do it to me.’+ 46  These will depart into everlasting cutting-off,*+ but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”+
  25. Haha
    Kosonen got a reaction from Foreigner in Governing body (self) praise and (self) deceiving on global level   
    @BillyTheKid46 The Governing Body is a temporary arrangement like the Jewish Sanhedrin in the first century. Then Jesus came with new light. And the Sanhedrin just went darker. Like GB that contradict Jesus when GB tells Jehovah's witnesses not to apply Matthew 25 about Jesus' brothers to other anointed than GB it self. And Jesus told people to literally practically help Jesus' brothers. But GB distorts this by saying that you need only to help Jesus' brothers in taking part in the preaching work. 
    Every thing will soon change when the final 1260 days begin with the attack on the holy place.
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