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Kosonen

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  1. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in You can be Jesus' friend   
    You can be Jesus' friend. 
    John 15:14  You are my friends if you do what I am commanding you. 15  I no longer call you slaves, because a slave does not know what his master does. But I have called you friends, because I have made known to you all the things I have heard from my Father.
    And the previous verses prove that Jesus wishes that we are his disciples:
    John 15:4 Remain in union with me, and I will remain in union with you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you unless you remain in union with me. 5  I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever remains in union with me and I in union with him, this one bears much fruit; for apart from me you can do nothing at all. 6  If anyone does not remain in union with me, he is thrown out like a branch and dries up. And men gather those branches and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7  If you remain in union with me and my sayings remain in you, ask whatever you wish and it will take place for you. 8  My Father is glorified in this, that you keep bearing much fruit and prove yourselves my disciples. 9  Just as the Father has loved me, so I have loved you; remain in my love. 10  If you observe my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have observed the commandments of the Father and remain in his love. 11  “These things I have spoken to you, so that my joy may be in you and your joy may be made full.
     
    Though Jesus is King of kings and Lord, he is personally interested to help us and he does that according to the scriptures:
     
    Rom 8:34 Christ Jesus is the one who died, yes, more than that the one who was raised up, who is at the right hand of God and who also pleads for us.
    Hebrews 2:17 Consequently, he had to become like his “brothers” in all respects, so that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in things relating to God, in order to offer a propitiatory sacrifice for the sins of the people. 18  Since he himself has suffered when being put to the test, he is able to come to the aid of those who are being put to the test.
    Hebrews 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tested in all respects as we have, but without sin. 16  Let us, then, approach the throne of undeserved kindness with freeness of speech, so that we may receive mercy and find undeserved kindness to help us at the right time.

    Hebrews 6:20 where a forerunner has entered in our behalf, Jesus, who has become a high priest in the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek forever.
    Hebrews 7:25 So he is able also to save completely those who are approaching God through him, because he is always alive to plead for them.
    Hebrews 9:24 For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, so that he now appears before God on our behalf. 
    1 Timothy 2: 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all

    2 Thessalonians 3:3 But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen you and protect you from the wicked one. 4  Moreover, we have confidence in the Lord regarding you, that you are carrying out and will go on carrying out our instructions. 5  May the Lord continue to guide your hearts successfully to the love of God and to the endurance for the Christ……. 16 Now may the Lord of peace himself give you peace constantly in every way. May the Lord be with all of you.17  Here is my greeting, Paul’s, in my own hand, which is a sign in every letter; this is the way I write.18  The undeserved kindness of our Lord Jesus Christ be with all of you.
    1 Corinthians 1:7 so that you do not lack in any gift at all, while you are eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ. 8 He will also make you firm to the end so that you may be open to no accusation in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    1 Thessalonians 3: 12 Moreover, may the Lord cause you to increase, yes, to abound in love for one another and for all, just as we do for you, 13  so that he may make your hearts firm, blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the presence of our Lord Jesus with all his holy ones.
    Jesus affirmed that he would be with his disciples after he ascended to heaven.
    Matthew 28:20 ….And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”
    Matthew 18:20 For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst.”
    And Jesus' prayer in behalf of his disciples extends to his disciples today:
    John 17:20  “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word, 21  so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. 22  I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. 23 I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, so that the world may know that you sent me and that you loved them just as you loved me. 24  Father, I want those whom you have given me to be with me where I am, in order that they may look upon my glory that you have given me, because you loved me before the founding of the world. 25  Righteous Father, the world has, indeed, not come to know you, but I know you, and these have come to know that you sent me. 26 I have made your name known to them and will make it known, so that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.
     
    Hebrews 5: 9  And after he had been made perfect, he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him, 10  because he has been designated by God a high priest in the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek.
     
    Ephesians 1:2 May you have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
    3  Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for he has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in union with Christ, 4  as he chose us to be in union with him before the founding of the world, that we should be holy and unblemished before him in love. 5  For he foreordained us to be adopted as his own sons through Jesus Christ, according to his good pleasure and will, 6  in praise of his glorious undeserved kindness that he kindly bestowed on us by means of his beloved one. 7 By means of him we have the release by ransom through the blood of that one, yes, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his undeserved kindness.8  This undeserved kindness he caused to abound toward us in all wisdom and understanding 9  by making known to us the sacred secret of his will. It is according to his good pleasure that he himself purposed 10  for an administration at the full limit of the appointed times, to gather all things together in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth. Yes, in him ….
     
    1 Corinthians 3:11 For no one can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
     
  2. Haha
    Kosonen got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in The range of political beliefs among Jehovah's Witnesses   
    With some exaggeration it could be said the whole book of Daniel is about Donald Trump.
    The horn that has eyes and a mouth that speaks arrogantly (Daniel 7): Donald Trump is accused of speaking arrogantly and bluntly.  A fierce looking king (Daniel 8:23-25): Donald Trump has a fierce look. The king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt himself and magnify himself above every god; and against the God of gods he will speak astonishing things. And he will prove successful until the denunciation comes to a finish; because what is determined must take place. (Daniel 11:36): Donald Trump already fit some of these characteristics, he does as he pleases and brags openly and against all odds proves to be successful in staying in power and he has had success in domestic politics. The latest victory for him was of course the aquittal from impeachment. It really looks like Donald Trump is going to fulfill a lot more prophecies.
  3. Haha
    Kosonen got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in The range of political beliefs among Jehovah's Witnesses   
    This NBC commentator makes valid points about President Donald Trump. And unintentionally this would fit to the Anti-Christ King some American preachers have warned would come.
    Those preachers in USA have explained that the "man of sin" or "man of lawlessness" in 2 Thessalonians 2 is a coming world ruler, the Anti-Christ.
    I just wounder how Donald Trump will take the criticism he just got. He could turn against Christianity as a revenge. 
  4. Upvote
    Kosonen reacted to Melinda Mills in The range of political beliefs among Jehovah's Witnesses   
    King does not necessarily refer to one person.  Check Daniel and see that it can refer to a world power/powerful kingdom.
    (Daniel 7:17, 18) 17 “‘These huge beasts, four in number, are four kings who will stand up from the earth. 18 But the holy ones of the Supreme One will receive the kingdom, and they will possess the kingdom forever, yes, forever and ever.’
    Media-Persia, Greece, Rome, Britain-America (Anglo-American)
     
    But I agree it can also refer to the King of a great world power.
    *** it-1 p. 70 Alexander ***
    “A male of the goats . . . proceeded to strike down the ram and to break its two horns.” “The ram that you saw possessing the two horns stands for the kings of Media and Persia. And the hairy he-goat stands for the king of Greece.” (Da 8:5, 7, 20, 21)
    After defeating the Medo-Persian forces twice in Asia Minor, Alexander’s army pushed first to the S and then to the E, completely conquering the Medo-Persian Empire
     
     
     
  5. Like
    Kosonen got a reaction from Melinda Mills in The range of political beliefs among Jehovah's Witnesses   
    We can learn something from what apostle Paul said in Philippians 1:15:
    "True, some are preaching the Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16  The latter are proclaiming the Christ out of love, for they know that I have been appointed to defend the good news; 17  but the former do it out of contentiousness, not with a pure motive, for they are intending to create trouble for me in my prison bonds. 18  With what result? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being proclaimed, and I rejoice over this. In fact, I will also keep on rejoicing,"
    The Governing Body should not limit spiritual progress on earth. Jesus told that he gives talents to each of his slaves and sends them to increase his assets here on earth. So one slave should not put limits on other coslaves of their Master Jesus Christ. We are free to examine scriptures and believe them and preach about them. 
     
    Do not ordinary JWs agree that USA plays an important role in Bible prophecies?
    I should not compromise with what I believe is true. 
    Jesus said that we should not bother if we gain people's approval or not in a such case:
    John 5:44 "How can you believe, when you are accepting glory from one another and you are not seeking the glory that is from the only God?
    John 12:42 "All the same, many even of the rulers actually put faith in him, but they would not acknowledge him because of the Pharisees, so that they would not be expelled from the synagogue; 43  for they loved the glory of men even more than the glory of God."
    And Jesus' apostle Paul said a similar thing:
    Galatians 1:10 "Is it, in fact, men I am now trying to persuade or God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still pleasing men, I would not be Christ’s slave."
  6. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in The range of political beliefs among Jehovah's Witnesses   
    We can learn something from what apostle Paul said in Philippians 1:15:
    "True, some are preaching the Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16  The latter are proclaiming the Christ out of love, for they know that I have been appointed to defend the good news; 17  but the former do it out of contentiousness, not with a pure motive, for they are intending to create trouble for me in my prison bonds. 18  With what result? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being proclaimed, and I rejoice over this. In fact, I will also keep on rejoicing,"
    The Governing Body should not limit spiritual progress on earth. Jesus told that he gives talents to each of his slaves and sends them to increase his assets here on earth. So one slave should not put limits on other coslaves of their Master Jesus Christ. We are free to examine scriptures and believe them and preach about them. 
     
    Do not ordinary JWs agree that USA plays an important role in Bible prophecies?
    I should not compromise with what I believe is true. 
    Jesus said that we should not bother if we gain people's approval or not in a such case:
    John 5:44 "How can you believe, when you are accepting glory from one another and you are not seeking the glory that is from the only God?
    John 12:42 "All the same, many even of the rulers actually put faith in him, but they would not acknowledge him because of the Pharisees, so that they would not be expelled from the synagogue; 43  for they loved the glory of men even more than the glory of God."
    And Jesus' apostle Paul said a similar thing:
    Galatians 1:10 "Is it, in fact, men I am now trying to persuade or God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still pleasing men, I would not be Christ’s slave."
  7. Upvote
    Kosonen reacted to Patiently waiting for Truth in What Makes Jehovah's Witnesses Unique?   
    In fact many of you have admitted that JW Org is not unique, by saying that all religions have problems such as Child Sexual Abuse and immorality etc. So most of you admit that JW Org is just like all other religions. 
    JW Org also DOES have a clergy class, the Elders. Those Elders run the meetings, give Public talks and do the Watchtower study. They are the leaders in Field Service. They also act as policemen in the congregations. They listen to the confessions of the congregants.
    Those Elders also claim Clergy Penitent Privilege. How could they do so if they were not clergy ?
    There are collection boxes at every Kingdom Hall and they do ask for donations at assemblies. 
    Not so united when it comes to CSA problems. Some countries hand over files, USA refuses to hand over files.
    There seems to be plenty of politics mentioned on here . 
    Fully integrated ?  Um, I suppose that means they will sit in the same KH or assembly together.
    I suppose the question should be
    What makes JWs think they are unique ?  
  8. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in What Makes Jehovah's Witnesses Unique?   
    WT organization has indeed what in practical terms is a clergy class. The Govering Body requires absolute submission to its beliefs, similar or even more strict than other clergies. And the WT organization has a very strict hierarcy to enforce Governing Body control including elders, circuit overseers, branch commitees etc. 
    If that is not a clergy, what is then a clergy?
    But the Bible says about the anointed: 
    "As you come to him [Jesus], a living stone rejected by men but chosen, precious to God,  you yourselves as living stones are being built up into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, in order to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 2:4,5).......9 But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies”of the One who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10  For you were once not a people, but now you are God’s people once you had not been shown mercy, but now you have received mercy."
  9. Haha
    Kosonen got a reaction from James Thomas Rook Jr. in The range of political beliefs among Jehovah's Witnesses   
    Tv reporter explains that President Donald Trump does not understand what love is. Or what to love enemies means.
    End time king?
  10. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from Arauna in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.   
    Yes, that is interesting to do and should just get clearer as time goes on. Really various end time prophecies should become more and more easy to understand thanks to events in the end time. 
  11. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from Arauna in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.   
    @JW Insider I have seen that there are always those who do everything to discredit whistleblowers, no matter the subject. Plus, all this confirm that there is an entity that has power over the kings of the earth. (Revelation 17:18) Different people that have investigated the subject point to what they call 'Wall Street'. It is a 3D chess. These "secret power-brokers" travel around the world and meet with presidents and primeministers and party secreterians. I was amazed about 2 years ago when I learned that Kissinger had visited Putin 26 times. 
    I can't say if everything all these whistleblowers say are pure facts, some of what they say are their opinions based on their intuition. But in general they are right.
  12. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in More Russian Jehovah’s Witnesses get asylum in Norway   
    Matthew 10:16: "Jesus said that it is a good idea to flee.  Look! I am sending you out as sheep among wolves; so prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves. 17  Be on your guard against men, for they will hand you over to local courts and they will scourge you in their synagogues. 18  And you will be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a witness to them and the nations. 19  However, when they hand you over, do not become anxious about how or what you are to speak, for what you are to speak will be given you in that hour; 20  for the ones speaking are not just you, but it is the spirit of your Father that speaks by you. 21  Further, brother will hand brother over to death, and a father his child, and children will rise up against parents and will have them put to death. 22  And you will be hated by all people on account of my name, but the one who has endured to the end will be saved.23  When they persecute you in one city, flee to another; for truly I say to you, you will by no means complete the circuit of the cities of Israel until the Son of man arrives.
    And when Stephen was killed the Bible says: "Saul, for his part, approved of his murder. On that day great persecution arose against the congregation that was in Jerusalem; all except the apostles were scattered throughout the regions of Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a. (Acts 8:1)
    So, it is wise to be cautious and escape when possible. But if one is caught despite all, then it is important to be courageous and firm in the faith. 
     
     
  13. Thanks
    Kosonen got a reaction from Srecko Sostar in 1914-1919 Debunked   
    The WT organization puts much importance on 1918 and 1919. But those beliefs are farfetched applications on Bible prophecies obscuring the urgent need to understand the true meaning of those prophecies. Because it will affect all Jehovah's witnesses. Let's see why those explanations are untrue. For example the publication Daniel's prophecy dp gives some explanations that can quite easily be debunked. Here is the explanation from jw.org:
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101999037#h=25
    10 Has there been such a spiritual revival of God’s anointed servants in the time of the end? Yes! It is a historical reality that in 1918 a small remnant of faithful Christians were subjected to an extraordinary attack that disrupted their organized public ministry. Then, against all likelihood, in 1919 they returned to life in a spiritual sense. These facts fit the description of the resurrection foretold at Daniel 12:2. Some did “wake up” spiritually at that time and thereafter. Sadly, though, not all remained in a spiritually alive state. Those who after being awakened chose to reject the Messianic King and who left God’s service earned for themselves the ‘reproaches and indefinitely lasting abhorrence’ described at Daniel 12:2. (Hebrews 6:4-6) However, the faithful anointed ones, making good use of their spiritually revived state, loyally supported the Messianic King. Ultimately, their faithfulness leads, as the prophecy states, to “indefinitely lasting life.” Today, their spiritual vitality in the face of opposition helps us to identify them.
     
    16 Daniel’s account continues: “And I began to hear the man clothed with the linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he proceeded to raise his right hand and his left hand to the heavens and to swear by the One who is alive for time indefinite: ‘It will be for an appointed time, appointed times and a half. And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish.’” (Daniel 12:7) This is a solemn matter. The angel raises both hands in an oath, perhaps so that this gesture is visible to the two angels on opposite sides of the broad river. He thereby emphasizes the absolute certainty of the fulfillment of this prophecy. When, though, are these appointed times? The answer is not as difficult to find as you might think it is.
     
    17 This prophecy is remarkably similar to two other prophecies. One, which we considered in Chapter 9 of this publication, is found at Daniel 7:25; the other, at Revelation 11:3, 7, 9. Note some of the parallels. Each is set during the time of the end. Both prophecies concern holy servants of God, showing them to be persecuted and even temporarily unable to carry out their public preaching activity. Each prophecy shows that God’s servants revive and then resume their work, foiling their persecutors. And each prophecy mentions the duration of this time of hardship for the holy ones. Both prophecies in Daniel (7:25 and 12:7) refer to ‘a time, times, and half a time.’ Scholars generally recognize this to mean three and a half times. Revelation refers to the same period as 42 months, or 1,260 days. (Revelation 11:2, 3) This confirms that the three and a half times in Daniel refer to three and a half years of 360 days each. But when did these 1,260 days begin?
    18 The prophecy is quite explicit as to when the 1,260 days would end—when there is “a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces.” In the middle of 1918, leading members of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, including its president, J. F. Rutherford, were convicted on false charges, sentenced to long terms of confinement, and imprisoned. God’s holy ones did indeed see their work ‘dashed to pieces,’ their power broken. Counting back three and a half years from mid-1918 brings us to the end of 1914. At that time the little band of anointed ones were bracing themselves for the onslaught of persecution. World War I had broken out, and opposition to their work was mounting. For the year 1915, they even based their yeartext on this question that Christ asked his followers: “Are ye able to drink of my cup?” (Matthew 20:22, King James Version) As predicted at Revelation 11:3, the 1,260-day period that ensued was a mournful time for the anointed—it was as if they were prophesying in sackcloth. Persecution worsened. Some of them were imprisoned, others were mobbed, and still others were tortured. Many were disheartened by the death of the Society’s first president, C. T. Russell, in 1916. What, though, was to happen after this dark time concluded with the killing of these holy ones as a preaching organization? (End of quote)
     
    These claims of severe persecution are unfortunately exaggerated and does not nearly correspond to the prophecies. 
    That is because the WT organization did not cease to continue its work despite some 8 leading brothers sent to prison. The Proclaimers book does not at all give a such grime picture of the years 1914-1919 conserning the WT organization.
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101993007 Proclaimers book jv:
    "Through the close of 1917 and into 1918, the Bible Students energetically distributed the new book, The Finished Mystery. By the end of 1917, the printers were busy on the 850,000 edition. The Watch Tower of December 15, 1917, reported: “The sale of the Seventh Volume is unparallelled by the sale of any other book known, in the same length of time, excepting the Bible.”
    "But not everyone was thrilled with the success of The Finished Mystery. The book contained some references to the clergy of Christendom that were very cutting. This so angered the clergy that they urged the government to suppress the publications of the Bible Students. As a result of this clergy-inspired opposition, early in 1918, The Finished Mystery was banned in Canada. Opposition soon mounted against the Bible Students in the United States." (End of quote)
    During the time the leading brothers were in prison the activity continued at the WT organization. The Proclaimers book goes on to tell: 
    "Back in Brooklyn an Executive Committee was appointed to take charge of the work. A chief concern of the brothers appointed was to keep The Watch Tower in circulation. The Bible Students everywhere certainly needed all the spiritual encouragement that could be given them. In fact, during this entire “testing season,” not one issue of The Watch Tower failed to appear in print!*"
    (.......)
    Nevertheless, a good spirit prevailed. Martha Meredith recalled: “We in Pittsburgh got together and decided we were going to keep ‘the home fires burning’ until the brethren got out of prison. At that time the Brooklyn office was moved to Pittsburgh, so the brethren got busy writing articles for The Watch Tower and had it printed. When The Watch Towers were ready to be sent out, we sisters wrapped them and sent them out to the people.”(End of quote)
    So where was the dashing in to pieces in 1914-1919? According to Daniel 12:7 ‘It will be for an appointed time, appointed times and a half. And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish.’” (Daniel 12:7)
    And because evidently this prophecy had no relation to 1914-1919 we should ask ourselves if that is instead something the WT organization will soon experience. And not only the WT organization but the anointed in general?
     
  14. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in 1914-1919 Debunked   
    The WT organization puts much importance on 1918 and 1919. But those beliefs are farfetched applications on Bible prophecies obscuring the urgent need to understand the true meaning of those prophecies. Because it will affect all Jehovah's witnesses. Let's see why those explanations are untrue. For example the publication Daniel's prophecy dp gives some explanations that can quite easily be debunked. Here is the explanation from jw.org:
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101999037#h=25
    10 Has there been such a spiritual revival of God’s anointed servants in the time of the end? Yes! It is a historical reality that in 1918 a small remnant of faithful Christians were subjected to an extraordinary attack that disrupted their organized public ministry. Then, against all likelihood, in 1919 they returned to life in a spiritual sense. These facts fit the description of the resurrection foretold at Daniel 12:2. Some did “wake up” spiritually at that time and thereafter. Sadly, though, not all remained in a spiritually alive state. Those who after being awakened chose to reject the Messianic King and who left God’s service earned for themselves the ‘reproaches and indefinitely lasting abhorrence’ described at Daniel 12:2. (Hebrews 6:4-6) However, the faithful anointed ones, making good use of their spiritually revived state, loyally supported the Messianic King. Ultimately, their faithfulness leads, as the prophecy states, to “indefinitely lasting life.” Today, their spiritual vitality in the face of opposition helps us to identify them.
     
    16 Daniel’s account continues: “And I began to hear the man clothed with the linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he proceeded to raise his right hand and his left hand to the heavens and to swear by the One who is alive for time indefinite: ‘It will be for an appointed time, appointed times and a half. And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish.’” (Daniel 12:7) This is a solemn matter. The angel raises both hands in an oath, perhaps so that this gesture is visible to the two angels on opposite sides of the broad river. He thereby emphasizes the absolute certainty of the fulfillment of this prophecy. When, though, are these appointed times? The answer is not as difficult to find as you might think it is.
     
    17 This prophecy is remarkably similar to two other prophecies. One, which we considered in Chapter 9 of this publication, is found at Daniel 7:25; the other, at Revelation 11:3, 7, 9. Note some of the parallels. Each is set during the time of the end. Both prophecies concern holy servants of God, showing them to be persecuted and even temporarily unable to carry out their public preaching activity. Each prophecy shows that God’s servants revive and then resume their work, foiling their persecutors. And each prophecy mentions the duration of this time of hardship for the holy ones. Both prophecies in Daniel (7:25 and 12:7) refer to ‘a time, times, and half a time.’ Scholars generally recognize this to mean three and a half times. Revelation refers to the same period as 42 months, or 1,260 days. (Revelation 11:2, 3) This confirms that the three and a half times in Daniel refer to three and a half years of 360 days each. But when did these 1,260 days begin?
    18 The prophecy is quite explicit as to when the 1,260 days would end—when there is “a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces.” In the middle of 1918, leading members of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, including its president, J. F. Rutherford, were convicted on false charges, sentenced to long terms of confinement, and imprisoned. God’s holy ones did indeed see their work ‘dashed to pieces,’ their power broken. Counting back three and a half years from mid-1918 brings us to the end of 1914. At that time the little band of anointed ones were bracing themselves for the onslaught of persecution. World War I had broken out, and opposition to their work was mounting. For the year 1915, they even based their yeartext on this question that Christ asked his followers: “Are ye able to drink of my cup?” (Matthew 20:22, King James Version) As predicted at Revelation 11:3, the 1,260-day period that ensued was a mournful time for the anointed—it was as if they were prophesying in sackcloth. Persecution worsened. Some of them were imprisoned, others were mobbed, and still others were tortured. Many were disheartened by the death of the Society’s first president, C. T. Russell, in 1916. What, though, was to happen after this dark time concluded with the killing of these holy ones as a preaching organization? (End of quote)
     
    These claims of severe persecution are unfortunately exaggerated and does not nearly correspond to the prophecies. 
    That is because the WT organization did not cease to continue its work despite some 8 leading brothers sent to prison. The Proclaimers book does not at all give a such grime picture of the years 1914-1919 conserning the WT organization.
    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101993007 Proclaimers book jv:
    "Through the close of 1917 and into 1918, the Bible Students energetically distributed the new book, The Finished Mystery. By the end of 1917, the printers were busy on the 850,000 edition. The Watch Tower of December 15, 1917, reported: “The sale of the Seventh Volume is unparallelled by the sale of any other book known, in the same length of time, excepting the Bible.”
    "But not everyone was thrilled with the success of The Finished Mystery. The book contained some references to the clergy of Christendom that were very cutting. This so angered the clergy that they urged the government to suppress the publications of the Bible Students. As a result of this clergy-inspired opposition, early in 1918, The Finished Mystery was banned in Canada. Opposition soon mounted against the Bible Students in the United States." (End of quote)
    During the time the leading brothers were in prison the activity continued at the WT organization. The Proclaimers book goes on to tell: 
    "Back in Brooklyn an Executive Committee was appointed to take charge of the work. A chief concern of the brothers appointed was to keep The Watch Tower in circulation. The Bible Students everywhere certainly needed all the spiritual encouragement that could be given them. In fact, during this entire “testing season,” not one issue of The Watch Tower failed to appear in print!*"
    (.......)
    Nevertheless, a good spirit prevailed. Martha Meredith recalled: “We in Pittsburgh got together and decided we were going to keep ‘the home fires burning’ until the brethren got out of prison. At that time the Brooklyn office was moved to Pittsburgh, so the brethren got busy writing articles for The Watch Tower and had it printed. When The Watch Towers were ready to be sent out, we sisters wrapped them and sent them out to the people.”(End of quote)
    So where was the dashing in to pieces in 1914-1919? According to Daniel 12:7 ‘It will be for an appointed time, appointed times and a half. And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish.’” (Daniel 12:7)
    And because evidently this prophecy had no relation to 1914-1919 we should ask ourselves if that is instead something the WT organization will soon experience. And not only the WT organization but the anointed in general?
     
  15. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Is it really necessary to preach as much as the WT organization urges?   
    The WT organization claims that they follow the example of the first christians in the first century. But they did not have in the first century monthly reports of hours spent on preaching. One could ask why? Well I have not found evidence in the Bible that they preached repeatedly on their surroundings after once they had gone through their territories.
  16. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Is it really necessary to preach as much as the WT organization urges?   
    Yes, it is strange that they have added unnecessary baptismal questions. Especially about if we acknowledge the WT organization. The elders asked me accusingly at the judicial commitee: "Did you not get baptised to be a Jehovah's witness and to be obedient to the WT organization?" May be the wording was not exactly that, but the sense was that. But I did never consider my dedication and baptism to be to the WT organization. Because the WT clearly says that our dedication is a personal thing. We dedicate ourselves to God, and not to an organization and that our baptism is a public declaration of our dedication to Jehovah God. 
  17. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Is it really necessary to preach as much as the WT organization urges?   
    @TrueTomHarley Thanks Tom for your kind reply. It is conforting that you have thought so much about me and my situation. And it is true that my family goes regularly to the meetings. I was ministerial servant and I had been pioneer for 5 years. And I have mostly been very zealous for God's will. But then 15 years ago I felt that the WT literature and meeting programs do not help me to make any new spiritual progress. A whole year went, and I looked back and I saw that I had not progressed in anything. But one WT article suggested that we pray to Jehovah God so that he might teach us more. I thought that would help, because I wanted to make spiritual progress. So because I knew the literature so well already, I decided instead to read the Bible and hope that Jehovah would lead my thoughts and let me understand something new while I read the Bible. Often, sometimes everyday I learned something new. I remarked scriptures I had previously just not payed attention to. 
    So after 3 years after I had understood so much new, I was enough courageous to speak about those things to brothers and sisters. And I reasoned that I should not hide a more accurate knowledge, because Jesus said  "and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."(John 8:32) I thought that brothers and sister would understand, because I based all that on scriptures I had found. And I thought that this would be a beginning of a reajustment of the Jehovah's witnesses, and that Jehovah and Jesus would make it succeed. Because all this was for the sake of the truth. And God and Christ love truth. 
    Sadly it did not go as planed. I got disfellowshipped. The elders did not refute my arguments. One even said, "you might be right, but this is not allowed. We have to obey the Governing Body." I thought what? Because the WT organization had taught how important it is to follow the principle apostle Peter told: "In answer Peter and the other apostles said: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men." (Acts 5:29)
    When we can see clearly in the Bible that something the WT organization teaches is not right, we should be allowed to speak out. 
    So I sticked to the principles I had learned. And the elders disfellowshipped me. 
    So I have nothing to repent for, for what I was disfellowshipped. So I will not be reinstated as long as the WT organization continues like this.
    But I am hopeful. Jesus said: "Happy are you when people reproach you and persecute you and lyingly say every sort of wicked thing against you for my sake. 12  Rejoice and be overjoyed, since your reward is great in the heavens, for in that way they persecuted the prophets prior to you."(Matthew 5:11,12)
     
  18. Upvote
    Kosonen reacted to Isabella in Truth by Tie Bros   
    The idea above was submitted by a patron. (The 1995 7/1 Watchtower “What is Truth” covers this topic well.)
    Bonus point: Suppose the room is 75 degrees, but the two men feel it’s too cold or too hot. The cold man decides to change the temperature by adjusting the thermostat so that it’s more comfortable for him, but now the man who feels it is too hot is suffering.  This frustrates the hot man, so he adjusts the temperature to cool himself down. Now the cold person is suffering. This is similar to how religions treat the Bible. 
    Christendom’s Churches keep adjusting and changing what the Bible teaches to try to make people more comfortable in their church. For example, they lower the temperature on God’s commands against the practice of homosexuality. Doing this doesn’t actually work. Their efforts to appease some ultimately ends up offending others. Bothered by the lies and hypocrisy people leave the “room” altogether.
    The Bible should not be adjusted to make people feel more comfortable with their behavior. The temperature has been set by Jehovah. If someone is too cold, they can adjust and put on more clothes. If someone is too hot, they can adjust and remove unnecessary items of clothing. 
    Instead of adjusting God’s standards to Make people more comfortable with immoral choices, people need to be encouraged to make personal adjustments to line up with God’s standards. 
  19. Sad
    Kosonen got a reaction from Leander H. McNelly in Is it really necessary to preach as much as the WT organization urges?   
    Yes, I agree, Jesus our Master and Lord expects that we increase his belongings here on earth. And different disciples of Jesus are able to do that in different measures. And that is okey, as long we do our best. A bad thing would be to know Jesus and God and never talk about that to anybody. That would really amount to burying the mina.
    We can have a lot to do in the Lord's work in different ways. After the territories have been worked out where we live, we have to find other productive ways to increase Jesus' belongings here on earth. Some few are able to move to a place where it has not been preached. But if you are not among them, then you can in a balanced way witness about Jesus informally to people you are aquinted with. Just a little not to annoy them. Personally I have done that a regularly. I have tried to find interest, but nobody has taken it seriously.
    Then there is apostle Paul's recommendation to have children. Every believing child will add to Jesus' belongings on earth.
    1 Timothy 5:14 Therefore, I desire the younger widows to marry, to bear children, to manage a household, to give no opportunity to the opposer to criticize.
    1 Timothy 2:14 Also, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and became a transgressor. 15  However, she will be kept safe through childbearing, provided she continues in faith and love and holiness along with soundness of mind.
    Yes, that is a way to make disciples. I have because of that 5 children. 4 still living with us and the youngest is 7 years old. I try to make disciples to Jesus out of them. 
    An other way is to make the congregation grow spiritually. There is surely a lot of work to do for everyone. And most important is to make personal spiritual growth, and as a by-product we will be much more productive in making spiritual growth around us. 
    Then there is a possibility to contribute to a spiritual growth on the internet.
    Also contributing funds to spiritual things furthers spiritual growth on earth. 
    And we should believe in the power of prayer. We can contribute to spiritual growth by praying that it would happen more abundantly. I think that will give more work for angels.
    So, there is very much we can do to cause spiritual growth without doing unproductive door-to-door witnessing in places where people are already familiar with us and not interested in serving God.
    If we feel that we have little to do in the Lord's work, then we should pray to Jehovah God in the name of Jesus about that. And I am sure Jehovah will through Jesus find for us ways to be productive in causing spiritual growth on earth, to increase the mina. About that we can pray everyday, so that we get constantly productive work to do in the Lord.
    1 Corinthians 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always having plenty to do in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in connection with the Lord.
  20. Upvote
    Kosonen got a reaction from Patiently waiting for Truth in Is it really necessary to preach as much as the WT organization urges?   
    Is it really necessary to preach as much as the WT organization urges?
    Haven't we all felt that it is quite unproductive to go back to territories that we have worked through many times already? In a such case, could we not just focus on doing fine works and working on to put on the new personality? And make progress in becoming one with God and Christ and our brothers and sisters?
    John 17:22 I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. 23 I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, so that the world may know that you sent me and that you loved them just as you loved me. 
    What does the Holy Christian Greek scriptures really say?
    First of all we should be reasonable. That is a quality that is strongly endorsed in the Christian Greek Scriptures. Philippians 4:5: Let your reasonableness become known to all men.
    According to this quality of reasonableness it is said that wives with unbelieving husbands should not constantly preach to their husbands. 1 Peter 3:1: "In the same way, you wives, be in subjection to your husbands, so that if any are not obedient to the word, they may be won without a word through the conduct of their wives."
    And what did apostle Paul say about going back to old territories? Romans 15:20: "In this way, indeed, I made it my aim not to declare the good news where the name of Christ had already been made known, so as not to build on another man’s foundation;  21 but just as it is written: “Those who received no report about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand.”
    So we see that apostle Paul was not interested in preaching there where somebody already had preached. We should see that preaching is not a limitless activity. To the contrary when a territory has been worked through, then it is finished. 
    Also Jesus told to enter a city and find the deserving ones. And that was it. He did not tell to come back to people that refused to receive the good news. Instead he instructed to show them that we are finished with them by saying: "Further, he said to them: “Wherever you enter into a home, stay there until you leave that place.  11 And wherever a place will not receive you or listen to you, on going out from there, shake off the dirt that is on your feet for a witness to them." -Mark 6:10
    So in this way in the first century the territories were quickly covered and finished. 
    Have you ever wondered why there is so little push for preaching activity in the letters to the congregations in the Christian Greek scriptures? That must be the reason. They had already covered their territories and the apostles did not see any need to push first century christians to go back to uninterested persons. Actually that would be against Jesus' instructions and that would be unreasonable.
    Instead the letters to the congregations are filled with instructions on how to become a good and acceptable person for God. That is the thing the letters to the congregations are focused on.
    Then there are also scriptures telling that the first century christians should always be bold to confess their faith in Jesus. But confessing faith in Jesus is understandably not the same as preaching. 
    We understand that confessing faith means only that when we are asked if we believe in Jesus, we confess and say "Yes, I believe in Jesus". 
    Philippians 2:11 "and every tongue should openly acknowledge [confess, Kingdom Interlinear] that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."
    Romans 10:9 "For if you publicly declare [confess, Kingdom Interlinear] with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved."
    1 John 4:15 "Whoever acknowledges that Jesus is God’s Son, God remains in union with such one and he in union with God"
    Luke 12:8 “I say to you, everyone who acknowledges [confess, Kingdom Interlinear] me before men, the Son of man will also acknowledge[confess, Kingdom Interlinear] him before the angels of God."
    1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have, but doing so with a mild temper and deep respect.
    Hebrews 10:23 "Let us hold firmly the public declaration [confession, Kingdom Interlinear] of our hope without wavering, for the one who promised is faithful.24 And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works,
    Hebrews 13:15 Through him let us always offer to God a sacrifice of praise, that is, the fruit of our lips that make public declaration [confessing, Kingdom Interlinear] to his name.
    16 Moreover, do not forget to do good and to share what you have with others, for God is well-pleased with such sacrifices.
    Revelation 2:13 ‘I know where you are dwelling, that is, where the throne of Satan is; and yet you keep holding fast to my name, and you did not deny your faith in me even in the days of Anʹti·pas, my faithful witness, who was killed by your side, where Satan is dwelling.
    Is it not evident, that where the territory once has been covered, there is no requirement to go back. But every time we are asked about our faith we confess that we believe in Jesus as our Lord and also that we believe that Jehovah is the True God.
    What can we focus on instead? Hebrews 13:16 says: "Moreover, do not forget to do good and to share what you have with others, for God is well-pleased with such sacrifices."
    Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works,
    Matthew 5:16 Likewise, let your light shine before men, so that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens.
    Ephesians 2:10 We are God’s handiwork and were created in union with Christ Jesus for good works, which God determined in advance for us to walk in them.
    Titus 3:8 that those who have believed God may keep their minds focused on maintaining fine works…...14 But let our people also learn to maintain fine works so as to help in cases of urgent need, so that they may not be unproductive.
    1 Timothy 5:4 But if any widow has children or grandchildren, let these learn first to practice godly devotion in their own household and to repay their parents and grandparents what is due them, for this is acceptable in God’s sight. 5 Now the woman who is truly a widow and left destitute has put her hope in God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day.
    9  A widow is to be put on the list if she is not less than 60 years old, was the wife of one husband, 10  having a reputation for fine works, if she raised children, if she practiced hospitality, if she washed the feet of holy ones, if she assisted the afflicted, if she devoted herself to every good work.
    2 Thessalonians 1: 11 To that very end we always pray for you, that our God may count you worthy of his calling and with his power perform completely all the good that he pleases and every work of faith. 12  This is so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you and you in union with him, according to the undeserved kindness of our God and of the Lord Jesus Christ.
    2 Thessalonians 3:12 To such people we give the order and exhortation in the Lord Jesus Christ that they should work quietly and eat food they themselves earn.13  For your part, brothers, do not give up in doing good.
    1 Thessalonians 4: 11 Make it your aim to live quietly and to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we instructed you, 12  so that you may walk decently in the eyes of people outside and not need anything.
    Colossians 1:10 so as to walk worthily of Jehovah* in order to please him fully as you go on bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the accurate knowledge of God;+
    Philippians 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste,* whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well-spoken-of, whatever things are virtuous, and whatever things are praiseworthy, continue considering* these things.+ 9  The things that you learned as well as accepted and heard and saw in connection with me, practice these,+ and the God of peace will be with you. 
    John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. 
    Yes, we can have lot of things to do in the Lord's work, without preaching on our territories after we have gone through them and found the worthy ones.
    And have you thought about that nobody preached in Jerusalem the final 3 and half years before its destruction, because all christians had fled. 




     
  21. Thanks
    Kosonen reacted to TrueTomHarley in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.   
    I did read the book ‘The Creature of Jekyll Island,’ and yes, it was one of the most intriguing books that I have ever read.
    I also read a book ‘The Rockefellers’ covering 4 generations. No going into conspiracies here, but if focused on how the first generation made the money, the second softened the image of the first and founded the charity, the third expanded the power base (David of Chase, Nelson of NY, 3 others i think) and the fourth went to psychiatrists and laid very low, even renouncing the name in a case or two.
    Anti-pharma people loathe one of them—I think it is David—for essentially buying out the medical profession and converting it to drug salesmen.
  22. Thanks
    Kosonen reacted to JW Insider in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.   
    I would agree, but I also should have included the idea of distortion of facts as TTH did. (And with an excellent illustration, I might add, which I read while picking my nose.)
    But then again, I consider any purposeful distortion of facts to be a lie. It serves the same purpose, but even more nefariously. The "lie" is there, but it's in a hidden agenda.
    Of course, it's a sword that can cut both ways. For example, our publications "dredge up" bits of historical information in every few issues of the Watchtower or every couple of years that will usually have the purpose of showing that prophecies from Ezekiel, Daniel, Isaiah, Revelation, etc were fulfilled among the leadership of this very organization. Sometimes the publications or broadcasts will include ideas about just how much better the leaders of our organization were at predicting 1914 decades in advance, or how much better we were than the Federal Council of Churches, or how we predicted the going off into the abyss of the League and its rise as the United Nations.
    Sometimes it will then add the point that we should therefore 'trust the leaders of this organization, if we want to survive the great tribulation and Armageddon.' The point will sometimes be made that these predictions are 'proof of guidance by Jehovah's unerring spirit.'
    So the problem for persons who have done their due-diligence and looked up these "controversial" items for themselves --to see if these things were so-- is that some of those persons will come back with the idea that these are actually only 10 percent lies, but that still doesn't equate to 90 percent "true."  (See TTH's post.)
    We know that the counsel by the GB is actually intended like a father to his children to help us stay out of danger. It might even be based on an exaggeration: "Don't go near those people because they always lie!" It doesn't mean every word is a lie, but the overall message probably is a lie. Their overall apostate message is probably "Don't trust the leaders of this organization, if you want to survive the great tribulation and Armageddon." Or, "These mistakes are proof of NO guidance by Jehovah's unerring spirit."
    Obviously there are some here who are anxious to immediately twist anything said as quickly as possible into those apostate messages. And then there are those who might assume that anyone who continues to dredge up mistakes from the past is subtly trying to create those overall apostate messages which can be a by-product of dredging up past error -- without ever even making those apostate statements overtly. 
    It's pretty clear that this is what Allen Smith's henchaccounts think I am doing on purpose. This is why I don't blame him for calling out what he thinks I am doing. It's also why I welcome his input, because it reminds those who have not done their due-diligence that this is NOT something to just accept because someone is stating it. It's just an opinion. Just because I will offer the reasons for my own opinion, and just because I personally accept my own opinion, doesn't mean that it couldn't be mistaken. I've been fooled before and I'll likely be fooled again. 
    Sooner or later, though, people who do their Beroean due-diligence will end up facing some uncomfortable ideas that they may not be prepared for in the least. It's bad to have the rug pulled out from under you with nothing to fall back on. I personally believe we need a faith that doesn't rely so much on human leaders for validation. We can still appreciate the reasons for respecting human leadership, and for following direction from those taking the lead in the most important work, announcing Jehovah's Kingdom through Christ. But we don't need 2 out of 100 past predictions to come true. We don't even need prophecies that predicted events among the Watchtower's leadership in 1919, for example.
     
  23. Thanks
    Kosonen reacted to Arauna in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.   
    Royal family members were taken in by Him. One must understand the period to understand why people accepted certain things.  The Pope made the konkordat with Hitler.......even Russia trusted him..... untill he turned on it. 
    People can see things right under their noses and not realize what they are looking at.  Most Jews who experienced kristal nacht never thought it could suddenly turn much worse.  Those who did not leave in time were caught in the trap.
  24. Upvote
    Kosonen reacted to JW Insider in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.   
    That's a very bad question if you are trying to exonerate JFR here.
    I'm sure you already know this, but Hitler didn't come out of the blue. The goals of the Hitler's Nazi party had already been made clear in the 1920's. Hitler was actually becoming important in internal political and military circles in 1918/9, when the first swastika flags were seen even at the tail end of WWI. He had been an intelligence officer in WWI. Also as a political operative he was not speaking just for himself, but amassed more political power by standing for popular ideas about remilitarizing to prove the true superiority of the Teutonic race, and that they would have won WWI, except for the UK and of course Jewish Bolshevism. Even before 1920, the foundations of the Nazi party were already "coming into their own."
    Because the Nazi party was very anti-Socialist (in spite of its name), it also grew in parallel with Italian fascism under Mussolini, whose party also gained power from the end of WWI. Mussolini was a "social Darwinian" racist (white supremacist), but not nearly as anti-Jewish as Hitler's party. Still it was a clear that Italy fascist party and Germany's fascist party (the Nazis) were trending in the same direction. Mussolini was breaking unions, was pro-capitalist, for privatizing businesses,etc. Both Nazism and Italian Fascism were seen as the "Anti-Revolution Revolution" or "Revolution of the Right" opposing the leftist Leninist style revolution of the left. The Russian revolution was spreading its ideology in some ways across Europe, as already seen in Finland and Romania and Ukraine, and Nazism was the cure. 
    When Hitler staged his premature coup to get power in 1925, of course, he was caught and sent to jail, where he wrote Mein Kampf. By the mid-to-late-20s, Mein Kampf had made very clear all the basic components of his ideology. His goals were to bring Germany back into WWI to win it this time. He also made clear that lying and backstabbing and false propaganda were going to be necessary "tools." The book along with his speeches promoted rabid anti-Semitism in the 1920's which he toned down only by the early 1930's to be more electable and respectable. He was visited by many Americans before he took power, being seen as a celebrity. Many others in the party did not control their anti-Semitic rhetoric in their political speeches. Not that it mattered, because it started to come back with a vengeance through Hitler himself within months of his election.  
    So his goals were clear from the 1920's. His party would be built on German imperialism, racial supremacy, fascism/nazism, and in his rise to prominence, he had used this rhetoric of revenge (over WWI, Treaty of Versailles) to push German even the socialist workers to the right. (Through inflitration and lying propaganda whenever necessary.)  He wanted to erase the shame of WWI, blaming the loss on Britain and Jews. German society saw the rhetoric rising but still assumed he could never become electable. But with rising industrialization, Hitler made fascism seem feasible. The premonitions in his rhetoric of the early and mid 20's made it seem realistic that that Germany should re-arm and conquer the world. The rationale for making war on the west was Jewish Bolshevism and the fact that they were blockaded by Britain, and obviously it was Russian-Jewish Bolshevism in the east since 1917.
    If I haven't repeated myself enough already above, he was already a scary, militaristic, fascist, anti-socialist, anti-British, anti-Jewish, white supremacist. So I don't know what goals Rutherford thought were identical, but he already would have known much of the above history because I'm sure he had been reading the writing of a Jewish person who had already reported this by early 1933. But this same Jewish man had also written in April 1933 that Hitler's party, even though ostensibly pro-Catholic, didn't care anymore and had been breaking up not just socialist and communist meetings, but Catholic meetings, too.
    Perhaps this is why Rutherford thought it was safe to include the following in his letter:
    The Brooklyn headquarter of the Watchtower Society is pro German in an exemplary way and has been so for many years. . . . These two magazines, "The Watchtower" and "Bible Student" were the only magazines in America which refused to engage in anti-German propaganda . . . . In the very same manner, in course of the recent months the board of directors of our Society not only refused to engage in propaganda against Germany, but has even taken a position against it. The enclosed declaration underlines this fact and emphasizes that the people leading in such propaganda (Jewish businessmen and Catholics) also are the most rigorous persecutors of the work of our Society and its board of directors. This and other statements of the declaration are meant to repudiate the slanderous accusation, that Bible Researchers are supported by the Jews.
    And the "Declaration" letter at the the same time included the following statements. The WTS was apparently not ashamed of them because they even printed them in English in the 1934 Yearbook, p. 134-138. The support for Hitler's Nazi principles are aligned with Hitler's propaganda against Jews and the British nation, and Rutherford admits his anti-Catholicism, too (which might NOT have aligned with Hitler's principles).
    It is falsely charged by our enemies that we have received financial support for our work from the Jews. Nothing is farther from the truth. Up to this hour there never has been the slightest bit of money contributed to our work by Jews. We are the faithful followers of Christ Jesus and believe upon Him as the Savior of the world, whereas the Jews entirely reject Jesus Christ and emphatically deny that he is the Savior of the world sent of God for man's good. This of itself should be sufficient proof to show that we receive no support from Jews and that therefore the charges against us are maliciously false and could proceed only from Satan, our great enemy. The greatest and the most oppressive empire on earth is the Anglo-American empire. By that is meant the British Empire, of which the United States of America forms a part. It has been the commercial Jews of the British-American empire that have built up and carried on Big Business as a means of exploiting and oppressing the peoples of many nations. This fact particularly applies to the cities of London and New York, the stronghold of Big Business. This fact is so manifest in America that there is a proverb concerning the city of New York which says: The Jews own it, the Irish Catholics rule it, and the Americans pay the bills.

    The present government of Germany has declared emphatically against Big Business oppressors and in opposition to the wrongful religious influence in the political affairs of the nations. Such is exactly our position.

    Instead of being against the principles advocated by the government of Germany, we stand squarely for such principles, and point out that Jehovah God through Christ Jesus will bring about the full realization of these principles and will give to the people peace and prosperity and the greatest desire of every honest heart.

    A careful examination of our books and literature will disclose the fact that the very high ideals held and promulgated by the present national government are set forth in and endorsed and strongly emphasized in our publications and show that Jehovah God will see to it that these high ideals in due time will be attained by all persons who love righteousness.
  25. Upvote
    Kosonen reacted to JW Insider in Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.   
    (Revelation 17:8, NWT 1984)  The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction. And when they see how the wild beast was, but is not, and yet will be present, those who dwell on the earth will wonder admiringly, but their names have not been written upon the scroll of life from the founding of the world.
    The NWT says above that some would "wonder admiringly" about this beast. The Watchtower in 1919 came out with an article that appears to be a commentary on that same phrase the Federal Council of Churches had used, but they also managed to use words that showed they "wondered admiringly" calling the ideals of this League both wonderful and admirable. But the Watchtower article also compared the League's ideals to show that they were essentially the same as the ideals of God's kingdom, and was even suggesting that this League might be involved in the initiation of the outworking of God's kingdom on earth. Just as the Federation of Churches had done, however, the Watchtower was not saying it was the same as God's kingdom, only that it was a "political" expression of those goals. Just like many in the Federation of Churches, it was realized that it would take more than political goals to actually achieve the full outworking of God's kingdom.
    Here are some snippets from the first, last and a middle paragraph of a short article in the Watch Tower,  February 15, 1919,  p.51, with a more complete text of the article below:

     

     
    We cannot but admire the high principles embodied in the proposed League of Nations, formulated undoubtedly by those who have no knowledge of the great plan of God. This fact makes all the more wonderful the ideals which they express. For instance, it has been made plain by President Wilson and the advocates of his ideas that the proposed League of Nations is more than merely a league to enforce peace. They would not have us consider it to exclusively from the standpoint of politics or of military relations. It should be considered as fully from the economic and social points of view. The President’s idea seems to be that the League of Nations which he proposes would stand for world service rather than mere world regulation in the military sense, and that the very smallest of nations shall be participants in its every arrangement. In other words, his idea undoubtedly is that the league shall not be established merely for the purpose of promoting peace by threat or coercion; but that its purpose, when put into operation, will be to make all nations of earth one great family, working together for the common benefit in all the avenues of national life. Truly this is idealistic, and approximates in a small way that which God has foretold that he will bring about after this great time of trouble.
    So the Watchtower claimed that the Peace Conference and the "virtual reality" of the League of Nations were not merely the evolution of human progress, but were were strides of Jehovah's divine providence. They were a part of Jehovah's day of preparation for the Messianic Kingdom. In a small way this idealistic League of Nations was a political expression of what God's Kingdom would complete on earth.
    In fact, one point of the article is that the wonderful and admirable League of Nations is more than just a political expression of God's kingdom, but a social and economic expression of the ideals of God's kingdom on earth, too.
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