Patiently waiting for Truth

Are you saying this scripture is wrong? @Anna I think you know what I said, but I will repeat it. THE SCRIPTURE IS MISUSED. Anyone could use it. The Pope or an Archbishop. The scripture itself is not wrong, it is the use of the scripture by those not having authority from God or Christ. That includes the GB and Elders. A well known example of this is obviously the Elders telling victims of Child Sexual Abuse, NOT to go to the police or authorities 'because it would bring shame on God's name and the Org'. We could also show the misuse of this scripture, as at the time the congregation of JWs were told that the early 1970's was going to be Armageddon and they were told to be ready and to step up the preaching work. So congregants were obedient and submissive and sold their homes and left their jobs and preached full time. And then ................. oh dear. The opposite of submissive is domineering which seems suitable for the GB and the Elders. And the Greek word that is translated 'submissive', in the Interlinear is actually 'yielding'. And yielding means 'giving way under pressure'. So the GB / JW Org use that scripture to show congregants how to :- 'give way under pressure' to a domineering GB and their Elders. Now I hope that explains it clearly enough for you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote @Anna Ahh, the faults of the GB. Well this too has been brought out many times, that faults and mistakes will will happen, just as they did with Jesus’ disciples. Did Jesus or the disciples ever put a date on a prophecy and then it didn't take place ? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote @Anna Matthew 18:15-17 " “Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go and reveal his fault* between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.16 But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, so that on the testimony* of two or three witnesses every matter* may be established.17 If he does not listen* to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen* even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector" So when exactly do the Elders 'speak to the congregation' and when does the wrongdoer get to listen to the congregation ? Matt 18 v 17 If he does not listen* to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen* even to the congregation ........... The Elders form a committee and things are dealt with 'behind closed doors'. Now according to the Matthew scripture that is going against the things written, because it clearly states to take matters to the congregation, and, to let the wrong doer have conversation with the congregation over the matter. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Um, a suspicious silence from those who usually mock me. The Watch Tower Society opened overseas branches in London (1900),[40] Germany (1903), and Australia and Switzerland (1904).[41] The Society's headquarters were transferred to Brooklyn, New York in 1909.[42] International Bible Students Association[edit] In 1910 Russell introduced the name International Bible Students Association as a means of identifying his worldwide community of Bible study groups. He wrote: Russell explained that the Association would be directed and managed by the Peoples [sic] Pulpit Association which, in turn, represented the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society. All Bible Student classes using Watch Tower Society publications could consider themselves identified with the Association and were authorized to use the name International Bible Students Association in connection with their meetings. The name was also used when advertising and conducting Bible Students conventions.[46] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A number of schisms developed within the congregations of Bible Students associated with the Watch Tower Society between 1909 and 1932.[2][3] The most significant split began in 1917 following the election of Joseph Franklin Rutherford as president of the Watch Tower Society two months after Russell's death. The schism began with Rutherford's controversial replacement of four of the Society's board of directors and publication of The Finished Mystery. Thousands of members left congregations of Bible Students associated with the Watch Tower Society throughout the 1920s prompted in part by Rutherford's failed predictions for the year 1925, increasing disillusionment with his on-going doctrinal and organizational changes, and his campaign for centralized control of the movement.[2] William Schnell, author and former Jehovah's Witness, claims that three-quarters of the original Bible Students who had been associating with the Watch Tower Society in 1921 had left by 1931.[4][a][6] In 1930 Rutherford stated that "the total number of those who have withdrawn from the Society... is comparatively large." I haven't found any mention of any of this in the 'God's Kingdom Rules' book, but I'll keep looking.

I will agree that humans are ruining the Earth. But it seems to me that you are still looking for signs. We know that humans cannot destroy this Earth or the human race. We know God's intention from the beginning was to have perfect humans living on a perfect Earth, and God's intentions haven't changed. I used to take an interest in earthwide news articles but many are so depressing and upsetting and some would even make me angry. The suffering and cruelty earthwide is not something I want constant reminders of. I know, 100% am certain of, that God will put it all right when He is ready. And prior to that people will continue to suffer, but the human race and the earth will remain.

But there seems to be two IBSA 's. That's what i cannot understand. One seems to be the 'original' IBSA that say that, Rutherford / JW's broke away from them. Now that would make Rutherford and his new Org, (JW ORG) apostate to the original IBSA. The other IBSA seems to be part of the JW Org and is a big property business in London. The Original IBSA was, as it says, INTERNATIONAL. So it was preaching the 'Good News' Earthwide long before JW Org. So if Rutherford turned against the original IBSA then was he in fact turning away from God. As for the name Jehovah, the scriptures in English it seems, say YHWH. Now YHWH is much closer to Yahweh than it is to Jehovah. And wasn't the name Jehovah previously used by a Catholic monk ? I was always told, (way back in the 1960's when I first listened to JWs), that the name Jehovah was used because it was already known to members of the public. The leaders wanted to have a name that people already knew. Convenience it seems ? But back then I was naive and just accepted it as right. One more point. Russell and Co had the International Bible Students Association Earthwide before 1916. But the GB / JW Org is against having a Faithful and Discreet Slave Earthwide now. However NOW we have internet, mobile phones / cell phones, all manner of communication, and there must be Anointed earthwide, NOT just in America. It would seem that Russell was far more advanced than the GB and JW Org.

One word : - CONSCIENCE

Funny how you have to but in when I'm replying to someone else that has suggested something with logic. But you have no logic............. I've no idea what you are talking about concerning Facebook. But then FB and you are both Americans I presume so never mind. It's probably why i can't understand half of what most of you say. It seems Americans have a totally different perspective on life than us British folks. See my new topic about the 'original' IBSA. But God could cleanse JW Org in whatever time He chose. If He chose 5 years to make your Org clean, then another 5 years until Judgement Day. Plenty of time. Or if God chose to form a new Org He could easily do that. You seem to forget that 'boots on the ground' JW congregants know nothing of the CSA, or of the misuse of scriptures by your GB. If JW congregants were shown True new light by the True Anointed, that could easily be 8.5 million people that would change to a true way of worshipping God. Plus all those misled Bible studies could learn real Truth. It would not be a difficult thing for God to achieve. Most congregants already have a 'good heart' but they are just being misled. So, all it takes is God's Holy Spirit and a change in direction. You of little faith.

https://www.internationalbiblestudents.com/ https://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/2013/04/10/the-original-international-bible-students-association-still-alive-and-well/ https://ibsaproperty.com/ After the death of Brother Russell in 1916, J.F. Rutherford took control of the WBTS, contrary to the instructions in Brother Russell’s Will and the Watchtower Bylaws. By 1931 J.F. Rutherford had fundamentally transformed the WBTS into an authoritative theocratic organization. J.F. Rutherford renamed the group from Bible Students to “Jehovah’s Witnesses,” in order to distinguish itself from the various groups formed by the 75% of original Bible Students no longer associated with the WBTS. Hundreds of these Bible Student congregations worldwide have continued to the present, thus constituting a continuation of the original IBSA. The International Bible Students have always been actively engaged in witnessing the Truth to the world and our beliefs remain unchanged since the days of Brother Russell. We continue to treasure the Studies in the Scriptures, early Watchtowers and other writings of Brother Russell. We believe that the light continues to shine brighter (clearer), but that it never changes. If we agree that the Truth has changed, then it never was the Truth in the first place. Peter K. (admin) October 11, 2018 at 6:41 am · Reply George, The last thing the Governing Body and JW Organization would want to do is bring Bible Students to court over publishing rights. This would draw attention to the existence of the original Bible Students (who supposedly died out according to JW Org). Also, an investigation of the history would reveal a hostile and illegal takeover of the Watchtower by Rutherford and his supporters, which would be a public relations nightmare. The original Watchtower Directors eventually decided not to take legal action as some brethren pointed them to these Bible verses. So questions. Who are the ( ORIGINAL ) INTERNATIONAL BIBLE STUDENTS ASSOCIATION ? Because they seem to be in opposition to JW Org. BUT, IBSA London Properties says this :- About Us IBSA London Properties is part of IBSA (International Bible Students Association) a registered charity acting on behalf of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Britain and Ireland. For more information about Jehovah’s Witnesses please follow this link. On the one hand we have an IBSA that say " This would draw attention to the existence of the original Bible Students (who supposedly died out according to JW Org)." But then we have the IBSA London Properties that say that they are " a registered charity acting on behalf of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Britain and Ireland. @TrueTomHarley ridicules me about my idea concerning the True Anointed. So I'm just wondering if an International Bible Students Association could provide the answer. After all wasn't it them that first had the 'new light' ?

@Witness But what then do you see as the next move forward ? I can see some of what you are saying as sensible. NOTE to @TrueTomHarley If I see something as sensible it does not mean that i believe it all. It just means that I can see some common sense in it. I would have thought that any True Anointed person would have no part of JW Org as it is right now. Why would they stay in a false religion ? And some of them serving as Elders ? Wouldn't true Anointed Earthwide have the spiritual strength to 'gather together' via internet or other means ? Wouldn't God through Christ, give them the spiritual upbuilding ? You know that I do expect a true Anointed to 'come forward', to be made known, within a few years or even sooner. And I also think JWs fears of humans destroying the Earth if it goes on much longer, shows a lack of faith. However I do not pretend to know God's or Christ's ways of moving forward. I'm always interested in other people's sensible viewpoints. Sorry Tom Harley i said sensible..

Quote @JW Insider "Jesus meant for us to think about the more important things. A law should never get in the way of showing love or saving a life." What Jesus did at Matthew 12 v 9 through 12, was breaking the God given Law to the Nation of Israel. But Jesus proved that things can be more important than just following 'law'. We no longer live under that Law of course, in fact 'we' never did. At the time of Jesus and His followers in the first century, it seems to have been common practice for Romans to drink human and animal blood. So can you prove that the instruction to 'abstain from blood' was not referring to the drinking of blood ? However when you say "A law should never get in the way of showing love or saving a life." Do you mean a human law or God's law ? Quote "Therefore, if the Bible says "Abstain from blood" ("New Testament" not OT), then we need not dive too deeply into any science to understand the meaning. We merely abstain from blood." If Jesus had used that principle then as the scriptures said Not to do any work etc on the Sabbath, he wouldn't have cured that man. I'm sorry but you seem to be complicating the matter.

@JW Insider I am seriously concerned about your above comment. It all seems to be based around a few MEN making decisions for the lives of 8.5 million other people. BUT those few MEN are NOT INSPIRED BY GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT. It is only THEIR personal viewpoint. And it can take the lives of millions of people. What then did Jesus mean at Matthew 12 v 9 through 12. ? After departing from that place, he went into their synagogue, 10 and look! there was a man with a withered* hand!k So they asked him, “Is it lawful to cure on the Sabbath?” so that they might accuse him.l 11 He said to them: “If you have one sheep and that sheep falls into a pit on the Sabbath, is there a man among you who will not grab hold of it and lift it out?m 12 How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do a fine thing on the Sabbath.” Doing any work on that Sabbath could be punished by death. It was that serious in God's eyes. Yet here was Jesus telling them that it was 'lawful' to do a fine thing on the Sabbath. @Anna tells me that we should all read our Bible and have our own conscience. @Arauna tells me that all i do is misquote scripture. BUT, I listen to neither men (GB / Elders) nor women. My conscience tells me that Jesus was saying that there is a time, when what appears to others to be God's way, is in fact not God's way at all. How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do a fine thing on the Sabbath.”

I have pity for you @TrueTomHarley . You find the need to misquote and mock but you have nothing better to offer. The True Anointed will be known long before the ten years. But it seems that JW Org won't be cleaned of the Child Sexual Abuse problem for at least another 2 or 3 years if ever. So one question must be would God / Christ use an immoral organisation ? I think you are mixing me up with @Witness when you mention the anointed 'being trapped within the JW Org'. I think Witness has that line of thinking. But your first line of comment shows your stupidity. Quote "Have you gone back to celebrating Christmas yet? Did i ever celebrate Christmas, maybe not. No we did not celebrate your Christmas. Well it must be yours as you mentioned it. Christmas means nothing to me, neither does new year. Quote "You can’t help them because the present arrangement is not pure enough for you and you cannot look upon what is bad." How pathetic you are Tom. I know you are a story teller and therefore have to exaggerate but you go beyond being funny. Tell my Tom, is the " present arrangement " pure enough for God and Christ ? I think not Tom. Hence the Org seems to be being cleansed slightly by the 'superior authorities' of the world.. “Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.”—ROMANS 13:1. ( Watchtower online library ). Well it seems that God, through Christ, is using those 'superior authorities' to dig deep into your JW Org and maybe clean it up a bit. So maybe one day your JW Org might just turn around and recognise the True Anointed, and maybe your GB will be humble enough to step down, then let those True Anointed do their job. But all of that can only take place with the help and approval of God / Christ and through the use of Holy Spirit. By the way, that is Holy Spirit that your GB admit not having. But to you it seems, God and Christ can do nothing. Only your GB have power in your eyes. I'm sure it was you that once stated that no one can remove the GB. What a sad way of thinking. To give such praise to men instead of giving that praise to God through Christ. You choose whom you serve Tom, but do it carefully.

Proving my point about Mr Harley. He has nothing better to offer here, so he misquotes. Such a jealous man, because he gets no attention. Probably nobody is buying his books.

@Arauna I didn't even bother reading your complete comment because all you do is nit pick, just as My Harley does. My Harley doesn't have any truthful or any good answers so he mocks by taking tiny pieces of what I write. You have done the same here, to make it look as if I've said something which I obviously didn't say. So be it, if you cannot act honestly, then your comments mean nothing to me. I will only answer this bit. Quote : Be obedient to those taking the lead amongst you: what do YOU believe this scripture means. That scripture means exactly what it says. BUT that is why that scripture can be so dangerous. If those taking the lead should not be taking the lead, if they are standing in the place where others should stand, then 'followers' would be being obedient to the wrong ones. The Pope for instance could quote that scripture, as Archbishop could quote it. And the GB quote it. All being false teachers. Standing in the place where the True Anointed should be stood. Now, second quote, which had no connection to the first one. "Obviously because we can all have our own opinions as to what each scripture " - your quote. You will note this is only half a sentence, and taken out of context.. And I was stating fact, that we can all read a scripture and all get different meanings from it. This was in answer to @Anna who said I should read my Bible and make up my own mind (or something similar to that). If @Arauna wants proper conversation then I suggest she tries being more honest with her quotes from me, not just quoting half a sentence to suit her own agendas. What is it @Arauna OCD. ?

Quote @Anna But you still didn't answer my question. Bible in hand, what have you found that the GB are doing wrong? I think this question has been answered many times before on this forum and it seems you are just going around in circles. Not only me but others also have made mention of the faults of the GB. Besides which you and other JWs will only make excuses for the GB and the Writing Dept and the Elders at al. Quote "Blaming the GB et al for not using our brains is just another example of not using our brains. Each person is responsible for their own spirituality." Didn't one of the GB say 'God and Jesus Christ trusts us, so do you trust us?' Wasn't that a sly way of the GB saying to JWs 'You have to believe what we say'. Hebrews 13 v 17 Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among youz and be submissive,a for they are keeping watch over you* as those who will render an account,b so that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you. Quote "When we stand in front of the judgment seat of God, there isn’t going to be an elder holding our hand, or telling us how to think... " No not then but there are NOW. The GB say they are the F&DS and have said in W/t that they are the ONE channel that God is using (although denying it at ARC) and that congregants should trust THEM. The GB give 'authority' through the ranks, down to the Elders. Then the scripture at Hebrews mentioned above is used to enforce the Elders 'authority'. So, if a person is an obedient JW, they cannot choose to be responsible for their own spirituality if it goes against serving the GB and the JW Org. You and others cannot get this through your heads. If a congregant has thoughts that the GB and JW Org are wrong, and if they prove to themselves from scripture, they have to make a choice. Stay in the ORG, in which case then they are serving the GB / Org, or, leave. I think you suggested that a person should do their own research but keep quiet about it. Quote " If we discern it’s wrong direction then we act on our own behalf, and not tell others what to do, because everyone else has a Bible too." Now this is where @Arauna will start to say that i 'misuse' scripture. BUT you @Anna are saying use the Bible myself. And thereby lies a contradiction. I can pray for spiritual help and read my bible and come to a decision as to what a scripture means to me. BUT @Arauna will tell me I am misusing the scriptures. Hence, I've said on here so many times before that ONLY the true Anointed will know truth from the scriptures. Why ? Obviously because we can all have our own opinions as to what each scripture means. We can take for example @JW Insider 's explanation about the NON 'sign of the times'. Which @Arauna seems to totally disagree with. Quote " We already talked about why there is no need for the anointed to form some kind of special club, just for the anointed. " I think you've been listening to / reading toooooo much from @Arauna . This seems to be her crazy excuse. NO ONE is suggesting a 'special club' for the true Anointed. What i did suggest is that they could be in contact with each other Earthwide, which the GB do not want. My suggestion would NOT take those Anointed ones out of their congregations. Quote " The reason for that is because we are all one flock " New International Version John 10 v 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. The Anointed are not the same as the Earthly Class. The sooner people get this through their heads the better for everyone. The Anointed are the BODY OF CHRIST. Do you not understand that God has a special use for them even now. Otherwise God could anoint a person when they were on their deathbed. That Body of Christ has a right to communicate with each other. Your GB wants to stop that happening. This is enough for one comment. So ill stop here. If you insist on an answer to your original question @Anna I'm sure I could waste half an hour giving you answers that you already know.

I don't know if you are having a nervous breakdown, or if you are deliberately trying to cause trouble on here but what you seem to imply was that I was saying that to JWI, which of course i wasn't. If you had read it properly you would have noticed i was quoting what Jesus had said to the Pharisees. As for me following what JWI had said, do you have a problem with that ? If so make in known and plainly. I have realised for a long time that YOU like to be the centre of attention, well tough luck because you are not, so just live with it. JWI writes things that i find sensible, where as you, Mr storyteller, write utter rubbish. What I actually wanted from @JW Insider was simple statements that the GB / JW Org were getting it wrong, and therefore teaching false teachings. Why ? Well one reason is to answer you when you boast about your ministry. Serving your GB and its Org, whilst telling lies to people in the world. Have a wonderful day Mr Harley.

I kinda worry about Arauna, seriously. She seems to be looking for a sign when as already mentioned there will be no sign. We do not know the day or the hour. Like a thief in the night. Isn't that plain to read ? Why look for a sign when one is not needed ? It seems to show a 'physical man' approach, not a 'spiritual man' Do you think women cannot be of the Anointed then ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Of course you will, you're a story teller, it's your job.

@JW Insider It looks to me, in your last comment, that you are saying that the GB and JW Org teach false teachings by misusing scriptures. They teach 'Signs of the times' which in truth are not signs of the times, but are things NOT TO USE as signs of the times. Most JW congregants it would seem, believe that they ARE signs of the times, BECAUSE that is JW teachings. Quoting from your above comment. " But no one should be able to excite us with the idea that the day of the Lord is already here. (Yet, we have claimed that the day of the Lord already started, in 1914.) This is why the idea of a Governing Body believing they are the embodiment of the Faithful Slave can be so dangerous. Should also note that the Watchtower publications teach us that Kingdom was BORN in 1914, so all these birth pangs should have been in the years leading up to 1914. That's supposed to be 1914. So we have the birth pangs starting after the child is born. " I've said that I would not go door to door to teach lies. And I would not advise people to have a 'Bible Study' as it is not a true BIBLE study, but it is a book study, from a JW publication. What you have shown above proves my point exactly. @TrueTomHarley says he does the preaching work of God. But if he teaches from W/t publications and does a study from a JW publication it will have the lies / mistakes you have mentioned. SO, is it better to preach lies, or not to preach at all, until one knows truth. I know that I'm harsh. Jesus was also harsh. The things he called those Pharisees and other Jewish religious leaders. Whitewashed graves, hypocrites, sons of Vipers ? John 8 v 4 ( Jesus said ) You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father So, although i do not compare myself to Jesus, I do think i have good reason to be harsh. I am looking for truth.

Quote @TrueTomHarley "These types of comments from you are so frequent that it seems clear to me you are someone who wants to be told what to do—by a “true anointed,” of course—but you do want to be told what to do. " Coming from a man that asks if he is allowed to use blood fractions. Is it legitimate ? He asks. Well Tom it seems to be you that want to be given instructions from men. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are so naive @Arauna . Can you seriously not see that your GB are the ones forming an elite group. It is they that claim they, only those 8 men, are the F&DS. It is they that tell other Anointed not to gather together to study God's Word. Why would your GB tell the body of Christ not to gather together, to upbuild one another ? As for singling out the rich man. Anyone that supports the GB are in fact then 'singling out the rich man', by putting the GB above other Anointed.

Oh dear. The truth hurts you doesn't it Tom. All I did was give you a truthful and logical answer.

Does this mean that you rely on your GB to tell you it is a “conscience matter” ? Can you not decide from your own Bible reading what is right in God's eyes ? Quote "Does it mean that there legitimately are two different ways of looking at a matter, .. ? " Tom, who decides if it is 'legitimate' or not ? Are you not therefore just doing the things your GB tells you to do ? I would use the scripture at Matthew 12 v 9 through 12 myself. Verse 12 How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do a fine thing on the Sabbath. Was Jesus just allowing 'wiggle' room to do a fine thing on the Sabbath ? I don't think so. I think Jesus was setting a pattern for us to follow. For us to know in OUR hearts what is right. Not to rely on other men to decide for us.

Quote @TrueTomHarley " not to mention the most clever book interpreting the Book of Revelation, with connections too compelling not to take to heart. " Which could NOT be the Revelation book by JW Org because they said it basically wasn't all true, in fact it probably had mistakes in.. In 2016 ? Watchtower announced the discontinuation of multiple publications which were key doctrinal guidebooks for Witnesses, including the “Creation” book, the “Isaiah” books, and the infamous “Revelation” book. I think we were brainwashed into studying this book THREE times. Repetition for emphasis maybe, or just make them read over and over then they will HAVE TO believe it. Even though they didn't believe it all themselves and basically said so. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote @JW Insider " But these do NOT mean the END. If anything, these things will just be a BEGINNING, as things might get worse and worse between now and then. " Just the beginning ? Matt 24 v 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. or ' pangs of Birth' as the Interlinear reads. Beginning of pangs of birth, just the beginning. So then maybe my idea of another 10 years is not so silly after all.

NWT Matthew 24 from v 1. 24 Now as Jesus was departing from the temple, his disciples approached to show him the buildings of the temple. 2 In response he said to them: “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, by no means will a stone be left here upon a stone and not be thrown down.”a3 While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives,b the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”d4 In answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads you,e 5 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.f 6 You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.g7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom,h and there will be food shortagesi and earthquakes in one place after another.j 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress. or Birth ? @JW Insider So you are saying that Jesus was answering the question "When will the temple etc be destroyed ". Not giving a sign for OUR times. And are you then saying that this scripture tells us NOT to look at the wars etc as a sign of our times ? @Arauna Seems to use the wars etc as a sign of the times NOW. The scripture says 'but the end is not yet'. And verse 8, NWT says pangs of distress but Interlinear Translation of GREEK SCRIPTURES says "beginning of pangs of birth". Surely there is a big difference ?

Quote @Anna "Many JW's don't think beyond what is black and white, and need everything not only served up, but already digested." Yes, this is why the GB and Writing Dept' et al are so dangerous. Because JW boots on the ground have stopped thinking and just serve the GB and It's Org. You seem to admit it but when I put it in words you they deny it. You are kinda funny Anna. Quote "This is why many, like you, are under the wrong impression that the GB are supposed to make no mistakes, and cannot be questioned. " In my opinion, if God through Christ was guiding the GB then the GB would get things right. Why? Well firstly, it seems that in the eyes of the GB et al, Armageddon is 'so close'. So there is no time to loose. The preaching work and the congregation should therefore be spot on / almost perfect, so as not to stumble anyone. Why? Because it is PEOPLE'S LIVES AT RISK. It would seem that JW teaching is that if a person dies at Armageddon they do not get a second chance. Hence if a person is stumbled by GB /JW Org teachings, or by Elders in congregations then Luke 17 v 1 & 2 comes into play. Then he said to his disciples: “It is unavoidable that causes for stumbling should come. Nevertheless, woe to the one through whom they come! 2 It would be more advantageous for him if a millstone were hung from his neck and he were thrown into the sea than for him to stumble one of these little ones. Secondly. You know what would happen if a congregant started questioning the GB's 'guidance'. If a congregant started talking to others in their congregation, suggesting that the GB were giving false information. The said person would firstly be warned, secondly be disfellowshipped for 'causing a division in the congregation'. So how does one 'question the GB' ? Would they give me a personal invitation to visit them to question them ? I think not. (Apart from which i could never afford the air fare anyway). I am talking about questioning the GB not writing to Bethel, as the later does no good at all. Quote " What do you think the identifying mark of these "real anointed" is? " Zechariah 8 v 23 “This is what Jehovah of armies says, ‘In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nationsj will take hold, yes, they will take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: “We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people.” So how will those 'ten men' know exactly who that 'Jew' is ? Quote "The anointed of those days were baptized with holy spirit, the HS helped them to speak languages they never knew before, it helped them to perform miracles. All that was finished and done when the last of them died, and wasn't going to happen again." Are you sure it won't happen again ? Are not the Anointed today 'baptised' with Holy Spirit ? Are they not inspired of God ? How then, in fact, do they know they are the Anointed ? You of little faith. BUT your GB treads them down. Your GB slyly suggests that they might be 'mentally ill' and then to those that are Anointed it tells them they do not need to contact each other or to study God's word together. Why would your GB do that ? Why would your GB say that only they, those 8 men, are the F&DS ? Would not truly anointed ones actually want to meet together ? Would not a true F&DS want to gather all the Anointed (via internet / telephone / letter / etc) so as to confer / discuss / build up and share thoughts and blessings from God through Christ ? Quote Anna " b4ucuhear hit the nail on the head when he said regarding those taking the lead: " So I'll quote him " Also, that way we won't be stumbled when Jesus apparently gets dates and teachings wrong and has to back-track on what he directed/controlled before. You think JESUS gets it wrong ? Seriously ? So now you are prepared to blame Jesus for the faults of your GB. No hope it seems for those that put the GB and JW Org above God and Christ. Have a good day Anna.

Quote @JW Insider "You exaggerate a bit, in implying that the rest of the anointed might get nothing. " Sorry this may just be my British humour / sarcasm. But you must admit the true anointed are being kept in the background whilst the GB 'blow their own trumpet' and exalt themselves.

Not that Tom loves himself, no of course not. But he cannot resist a dig at others.