Patiently waiting for Truth

@Anna said that the buildings / Kingdom Halls were sacred and holy. But in truth they are just real estate for the GB to make profit from. What adds to that insult is that Congregants spent many hours building those Kingdom Halls and maintaining them, and those congregants received no wages. So it shows that the GB use congregants as slave labour to build and maintain, so that the GB can reap a profit. More K/H are being closed and more Congregants are having to travel miles to meetings, so money is going somewhere. But I think you should remember that Jesus didn't even have a place to call his home. Matthew 8 v 20 NWT version. . But Jesus said to him: “Foxes have dens and birds of heaven have nests, but the Son of man has nowhere to lay down his head But your GB live in luxury, buying and selling real estate.

@TrueTomHarley proves his lack of love and respect for God and Christ by each and every comment he makes. Tom you are so well trained / brainwashed by the GB and it's Org. Quote Mr Harley " It so happens that the “thing of the world” under discussion is the building that they meet in " BUT IT WASN'T. It was a wreck that needed millions spent on it, and should have been pulled down. It is only the worship of such buildings that make people waste time and money on them. So because your GB & Co worshipped that building, hundreds of naive congregants worked hard on it to restore it, for no pay. But when your GB sell it, who gets the money ? None of those congregants will get a dime. Were those congregants told it would bring praise to God ? Could those congregants not see that it was just a showy display of GB / JW Org wealth through donations. It does not bring praise to God by any sincere worshipper of God. It is just a showy building. It was originally built as a showy building by people 'of the world'. The building has not changed. It is just real estate for the GB to play with and make money from.

So copy and paste someone else's comment suddenly makes it right. @Anna you get worse in your answers.... Quote "As for idol worship, Witnesses do not worship any building " "When something is sacred that means that it is viewed as being holy ......... even our places of worship " And then Kingdom halls are sold off to other religions or to any one that will buy them, just to bring the $$$$ in.

A time of rebellion indeed and it's easy to see that the GB are rebelling against God and Christ. Idolatry in the extreme. The GB worship money, power and position, and even buildings. One building the GB and others at the top of the JW Org worship is this one. Scroll down on that link and see the idol worship and money wasted. I wonder how much of congregants donations were wasted on the restoration of this monstrosity. https://jerseydigs.com/look-inside-the-historic-stanley-theater-journal-square-jersey-city/ But they won't give money willingly to Victims of Child Sexual Abuse, that were abused in JW Org. Much of the abuse was carried out by Elders. And the GB continue to keep the secret data base of over 20 years, whilst wasting money on the worship of buildings. Please show me how this is serving God properly ?

@the Sower of Seed " They have God's view of war, of murder, of abortion, of headship, of voting, of trusting in men, of the use of blood, of immorality,etc.... " The GB have no idea. 1. The GB say that God and Christ trust them, so then the GB tell people to trust them. Trusting the GB is 'trusting in men', when the bible says 'Put not your trust in earthling man' 2. How many more of you JWs will pretend that the GB and its Org have God's view of immorality ? Look around this Earth. See the hurt and pain the JW Org has caused people through Child Sexual Abuse. Then look at all the court cases where your GB are using dishonest lawyers to tell lies in courts, just to save your GB money. JW Org has big businesses in the world earning millions of pounds / $, but they do not want to pay compensation to Victims of CSA. The GB have even made rules of shunning to deliberately push people away from their families and friends. The misuse of scripture is horrid. The only 'seed' you are sowing is one of lies. I'll repeat this scripture :- Matthew 5 38 “You heard that it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’a 39 However, I say to you: Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him.b 40 And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment;c 41 and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one asking you, and do not turn away from one who wants to borrow from you." Direct instruction from Jesus to the Anointed. To give and not hold back. Why are your GB doing exactly the opposite to the instructions of Jesus Christ ?

Quote @TrueTomHarley Sigh......Maybe they will someday turn over a new leaf and I will see on the webpage: ”Watchtower—home of the polite lawyers, the reasonable lawyers, the Christian lawyers.......anybody representing anything can roll them.” Quote God's Word at Matthew 5 v 38 through 42. NWT version. “You heard that it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ 39 However, I say to you: Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him. 40 And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment 41 and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one asking you, and do not turn away from one who wants to borrow from you." @TrueTomHarley you prove by your own words that you do not serve Almighty God. The GB and their Lawyers prove exactly the same thing. The JW Org is run by people that do not want to serve God properly. Why ? Because those that run JW Org are puffed up with their own pride, and worry about their own status and position and power, and money. Read that scripture above 3 times, repetition for emphasis as the Org used to say in the 70's. Get it through your head, what is important. If the GB and their lawyers were serving God properly they would not care about the loss of money. Remember that scripture above is direct instruction from Jesus Christ to the Anointed. Your GB say they are Anointed and that they follow Christ. But BY THEIR WORKS WE SHALL KNOW THEM.

And meanwhile the Child Sexual Abuse continues in the JW Org, and the court cases continue around the Earth. And God's name is insulted continuously. And you tell people to put up with it and nurture it. You know how to create a pearl from being sexually abused as a child do you ?

@Anna I was hoping the investigation was going to look at each 'religion' separately, but by my understanding it looks as if it is just a blanket / overview of all those 'religions' pushed in together. It mentions having more than one person in the witness box at a time and looks like it will just gloss over things. For instance it is about Jews, Islam / Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses and many more.... How is it possible to mix all those people into one investigation ? Some of those 'religions' mutilate (FGM) girls private parts, some marry off very young girls to very old men, but they say it IS part of their 'religion' or 'custom'. They are not denying it. Whereas, Jehovah's Witnesses say “Jehovah's Witnesses abhor child abuse in all its forms and do not shield wrongdoers from the ... " So here we see a totally opposite attitude. A denial rather than admittance........ It is known, whether you wish to believe it or not, that the JW Org hide paedophiles and have hidden CSA in it. (Otherwise there would not be court cases and investigations Earthwide ). It is known that the JW HQ here in UK did not want to hand over information to the Charity Commission. So it seems to make it obvious that the JW Org does not want to cooperate with any investigation... (Hence their choice in whose statement they are using, see lower down) As I read it also, the investigation WILL NOT look at past 'happenings and actions'. They only want to know what is happening now. So how will the investigation have any information on the procedures that have been used in the past ? I think it is always good to have a bit of the history to examine whether an organisation / religion has a past record of 'doing things properly'. It might help to establish whether that org / religion can be relied upon to 'get it right' in the future. Whose statement they are using. The CCJW (JW Org) are using a statement by Mr Paul Gillies who WAS (past tense) a member of the Britain Branch Committee. That man is now safely tucked away in American HQ it seems, as Director of Public Information at 'World HQ'. So, he will not be available for personal face to face questioning. How convenient. We know that the GB have given permission to people in 'authority within the Org' (including Elders) to TELL LIES. We know the GB call it Spiritual Warfare. So, I am quite sure in my own mind that Mr Paul Gillies' statement could easily be full of lies and have GB approval. And as I say he cannot be cross examined / questioned. ( Please note at this point : I am NOT a fan of Lloyd Evans, and I don't think he will be helpful to the investigation at all. ) All in all it looks to me like a very weak pretence of 'investigating' Child Sexual Abuse. It looks too frightened to 'ruffle feathers' in NON White / NON British religions such as Jews and Muslims. It is obvious that those Non White / Non British religions / organisations would scream racism or some such excuses, or use the idea of ' freedom of religion' to continue doing harm to children. BUT Jehovah's Witnesses are, whether one likes it or not, basically a White Mans religion. ( We needn't go into the past about depicting Jesus as white etc, but point proven. ) By that I mean that JW Org, can't or won't scream racism as an excuse for anything. I also doubt that here in the UK JWs would cry 'religious discrimination' either. And the way this investigation is being carried out they could not I suppose, because they are just being lumped in the pot with all the rest. So what do we have ? We have JW Org lumped in with all the rest, which impairs an investigation into CSA in the JW Org itself. We have, not being able to discuss / show previous processes / procedures of particular cases from the past, which would have been good evidence of wrongful use of scripture and wrongful action by men. We have a statement from a man who no longer resides in the UK (and hasn't done for 18 months at least ) and cannot be cross examined on his statement. We have a GB that gives their permission to tell lies to protect JW Org. So a 'false' investigation, a 'fake', a pretence. It will cost a fortune, it will probably upset many in 'those other' 'religions', it will not serve a good purpose to clean up the Org, it will not bring any justice to Victims of CSA, AND, most importantly, it will not bring any praise to Almighty God. It would be wonderful if I am wrong and I'd be happy to admit it if I am. And if it could bring praise to God in any way, that would be the best ever result. Have a good day.

Elders are supposed to be equal ? And there is no hierarchy ? Um some man on here 'sower of the seed ' or something, seems to think different. When he talks about the GB working their way up 'through the ranks'. Of course there are ranks and hierarchy. Ministerial Servant, Elder, Circuit Overseer, et al. Right up to the GB and their lawyers. And who is it does the judging in the congregations ? The Elders judge, mark, report on people. If a member of the congregation did that it would be seen as 'causing a division in the congregation' or trouble making, or gossip. But the Elders are given that authority to judge, mark, report, and be involved in disfellowshipping people by giving evidence to the C.O. I think that shows that Elders have rank / position. If all were equal they would not use the term 'brother / sister', because they would be on first name terms within the congregation. I have a brother and a sister by blood relation, and i use their first names. Why not in a congregation. I really can't imagine the Apostles using last names. We have, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Peter, ............. No last names there. Also, Elders write their own talks to give from the platform. True they may have a basic outline from the GB but the Elder has quite a free reign to write his talk. Now that Public Talk is given as said to the Public, so that Elder has a responsibility to give correct information in such a talk. So is that not very similar to church clergy ? @Anna, i think, mentioned the word church. The church is NOT the building, it is the congregation, specifically the Anointed, as it would have been in the Greek Scriptures. @Srecko Sostar mentioned Inside JW circle word "clergy" has bad connotation. Because, as word "Christendom" too, it is always about, those other people, those other churches, those other religions. The GB down to the Elders have always tried to frighten congregants with some false idea about everyone 'outside' the JW Org being wicked. As Srecko mentions 'clergy' 'Christendom' and others have been 'torn apart' 'dissected' and given bad reports on. So now the table has turned and it is the GB and the JW Org that are being dissected and inspected, and investigated, and given bad reports on. It would seem they are receiving back what they threw at others.

I still repeat that JWs break the law of the land when it suits them, but obey the law of the land when its convenient to them. Suit yourselves though. It's so clear to see that the GB, their lawyers, and most JWs have no love, nor even any feelings for Victims of Child Sexual Abuse within JW Org. The Victims are just Collateral Damage, pushed aside as being inconvenient.... So your GB and it's Org saved themselves some money. Wow. But what is much more important is, the feelings of God and Christ on these matters. I'm sure that God, Christ and the scriptures would be on the side of the Victims here. But that of course does not matter to your GB, sitting high in their new home.

Update from IICSA today 14th January 2020 https://www.iicsa.org.uk/key-documents/17283/view/preliminary-hearing-transcript-14-jan-2020.pdf It's UK of course so may not be of interest to most of you. I've just read the full 70 pages and it looks like a whitewash.

You have the right to disagree with scripture of course, but then it seems insulting to the one whom inspired its writing.

The Elders are clergy and Policemen, and judges and decision makers, and dictators et al.

@TrueTomHarley " It’s called updating. People have done this since the beginning of time. The printing presses they use didn’t even fit in the NYC buildings, they became so large. " Septuagint bible w/ Apocrypha Ecclesiastes 12:12 (LXX) And moreover, my son, guard thyself by means of them: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. The Message Bible Ecclesiastes 12:12 (MSG) But regarding anything beyond this, dear friend, go easy. There's no end to the publishing of books, and constant study wears you out so you're no good for anything else. So why would your GB want to be spending so much money on new buildings and new equipment, if 'THE END' IS SO CLOSE NOW ? Surely all that money could have been put into preaching the Good News Earthwide. After all, surely bringing in more people and getting them baptised is the priority ? Your GB is telling the world that no one will be saved unless they are a baptised JW. But they used the brothers and sisters to do the building, when they could have been preaching, and they used the money for the buildings when it could have been used better in the earthwide preaching work, and possibly to help those bros & sis that need extra support financially to survive. But no, your GB chose to build it's 'Tower to the sky', just to show off its wealth.

I don't have the concentration span for it thank you. But isn't the jist of it, that the GB / JW Org use of 'confidentiality' is totally different to what normal people would think of confidentiality ? Isn't it that JWs can tell Elders, Circuit Overseers, HQ, et al, but still say that is is confidential. Whereas, Catholics use confidential to mean between one person and one priest. And Doctors use it to mean between one patient and one doctor. I would certainly use it to mean only two people, the one offering the information and the one hearing that information. But if your GB and in fact you JWs are happy to accept the 'spiritual warfare' used by GB lawyers then so be it. I'm sure God or Christ will judge you all in time. Especially the GB, that pretend they are Anointed, but, 'by their works' we know are not.

How you try to deceive. You know why people don't help each other. You know why the world is as it is. You know who the governments belong to, (and even the 'charities' belong to)... Satan offered them to Jesus and Jesus did not say that they didn't belong to Satan. Once again you are comparing the GB and JWs to 'the world', that 'wicked world of mankind'. Because you dare not compare the GB and JWs to God's standards, as your GB and most JWs fall far short. You really must lack faith if you need to compare your GB and the Org to the devil's wicked world.

Quote @Anna unless one was physically removed from society all together, Then so it should be.... JW or otherwise.... But as i tried to say to Tom, its the devil's world so they will be allowed to carry on with their disgusting ways. Quote "In most cases, children won’t be removed from a home without clear indications the child is in danger. ' Child welfare services have hard decisions both ways, but cost would be a big problem and places to re-home children. And those working in 'Child welfare' are still part of that 'wicked world' that JWs warn everyone about. So who can be trusted ? The whole world is in such a mess. JWs say that anything outside of JW Org, is part of the 'wicked world'. But then we can see that a lot of things 'inside JW Org' are wicked things too. Not one human can be trusted. Its obvious why the scripture says 'Put not your trust in earthling man'. King James Bible Psalm 146 v 3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

Twisting words again Mr story teller. You will only impress the naive ones. Sensible people laugh at you. The GB and it's org probably has enough money to feed physical food to the population of the whole world, but do they do it ? The Org may 'look after their own' which is good of course, but they could do much more if they wanted to. It seems that Jesus fed physically as well as spiritually. But your original point previously was for me to take action against the devil's world, to 'fix the world', thereby becoming part of that world. But now you twist it to be something different. How sad you really are Tom.

Quote @TrueTomHarley " But whoever stumbles one of these little ones who have faith in me, it would be better for him to have hung around his neck a millstone that is turned by a donkey and to be sunk in the open sea.” Matthew 18:6 " Quote @Anna " But if one doesn't have that kind of faith, then money is the next best thing. " There you are Anna, the answer to why those ones lost their faith. They were stumbled by Paedophiles, then stumbled by their Elders not acting properly to sort it out. AND WHAT FOLLOWED WAS :- Quote @Anna So what has happened is pedophiles have been in positions where re-offending was made possible. And that has been the problem all along. You and Tom have proven the point for me, Thank you. But Anna, why were those paedophiles allowed to be ' in positions where re-offending was made possible.' ? That seems to be the whole point of the court cases. To establish, who new the facts, and who allowed the paedophiles to have those positions where re-offending was made possible.'

How funny your story telling is Tom. It's really good for a laugh. BUT you miss the true point as usual. IT ISN'T MEANT TO BE FIXED BY HUMANS, IT IS THE DEVIL'S WORLD. ONLY GOD THROUGH CHRIST CAN AND WILL FIX IT. BUT THAT DOES NOT HAVE TO INVOLVE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES. At least not in the state of the Org right now. One point of there being NO RELIEF NOW is that people should be looking for God to 'fix it' in the future. Unfortunately many have died and many more will die, but we have the faith of the resurrection in God's New world, here on Earth.. "And people need relief right now ". If God or Christ thought it was SOOOOOO important right now, then THEY would fix it now. Are you blaming God for not fixing it right now ? It seems so as you demand 'people need relief now', and you know that humans cannot fix it. Think on things this way Tom. IF, JW Org is God's 'tool' for bringing together all those worthy of surviving Armageddon, and IF Armageddon is 'so close now' as you people say, then JW Org will be 'made clean' very soon, by a miracle from God through Christ. Why ? Because God and Christ CANNOT work through an unclean Organisation. Be 'no part of the world'. Be 'without spot from the world'. 'Have love amongst yourselves'. 'Remove the wicked ones from amongst you'. So there is room for action from you Tom. Will you 'rise to the occasion' ? Will you help God and Christ clean up your JW Org ? Or are you too busy writing books ?

Well at least the plaintiff could be miserable in luxury .. But I agree with you that millions of $$$ in payouts are too high. So who is it that decides on the amount ? Because as you seem to be saying, it disputes the genuineness of the claim. But is there ever an apology on behalf of the Watchtower / JW Org ? One other point of course is, would a qualified lawyer be prepared to fight a case for a Victim if there was no financial reward for the lawyer. Lawyers are part of the devil's world, and money seems to be what drives them. You cannot expect an experienced lawyer to work for no pay. And it needs very experienced lawyers to fight the GB and their lawyers, because the GB's lawyers play dirty. Also, you cannot expect the devil's world to work toward preventing child sexual abuse can you ? Its kinda funny how @Arauna follows 'world conditions' and uses them as signs of the times, whereas you seem to be expecting signs of improvement to worldly moral standards. But you know things will get worse not better. This is why JW Org should be compared to God's high standards, not compared to the devil's world. It would be too easy to say JW Org is better than the devil's world, but it would prove nothing. ======================================================== New comment. @the Sower of Seed Said : A person may imagine sexual scenarios, is this the Christian thing to do? @Arauna said : He was giving an example.... so what are u getting åt? Members of the Governing Body, it seems, were Homosexual. It also seems, if information is correct, that a member of Bethel was sexually assaulted by such a one. There have been other reports on here, of immoral behavior at Bethel. Those GB members would have contributed to Watchtower articles. Also it gives reason to believe that the Writing department personnel might not be exactly worthy of producing information on God;s behalf. With 'pillowgate' and other examples it does not look good for the GB / Org / Bethel in USA. Unfortunately i don't keep all the info i read on this forum, and those that have given info' might not wish to confirm the info they originally gave, so I only have the remnants of the knowledge in my head. But the information I have read on here was obviously given voluntarily by those that had worked / possibly do work at Bethel, so there is no reason for me to disbelieve it.

I'm English not American and I try to be no part of that world. Congress means nothing to me.... The Charity Commission did an investigation here in UK and the IICSA will be doing a deeper investigation as well. https://www.iicsa.org.uk/investigation/child-protection-religious-organisations-and-settings Next Steps: A preliminary hearing took place at 2pm on 23 July 2019 and a further preliminary hearing will be held at 10:30am on 14 January 2020. Two weeks of public hearings will begin on 16 March 2020. The Inquiry is encouraging all victims and survivors of child sexual abuse to share their experience via our Truth Project.

What are you trying to prove by dragging up old topics ? Cases cannot be proven unless names are given for police or others to investigate, that is obvious. By hiding over 20 years of information it shows fear in the GB and it's lawyers. If your GB had any faith at all in God or Christ, it would 'go the extra mile', and try its best to clean up the JW Org. But no, they continue to hide the information.

@the Sower of Seed A person may imagine sexual scenarios, is this the Christian thing to do? What is sexual sin in God's eyes. To arouse sexual desire in someone who is not your wife or husband. @Arauna the issues involved which originate inside the person - the desires Well then maybe you can both explain how two past members of the Governing Body were Homosexuals. Jesus words at Matthew 5 v 28 Berean Study BibleBut I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So how did brothers in Bethel know that GB members were homosexual. After all if that GB member even had thoughts of homosexuality then they were committing homosexuality in their hearts. Now surely as Anointed ones that would be sinning against the spirit. Some of you joke about 'tight pants Tony' of the GB, but is any of that really funny concerning the supposedly Anointed of God. Not one of you JWs seem to realise any seriousness in any thing I write. I do think it is because many of you are American and as such you have become hardened of heart. (I would think it is harder emotionally to live in USA) And @Arauna can easily be seen as hard hearted, also Mr Harley. Yes the world is horrid and we do need to toughen up of course, otherwise we will 'sink', but I do definitely see a lack of love and fellow feeling on this forum. To think that your 'guidance' comes via the Watchtower which is not inspired of God and which is written by ordinary men who also have wrong desires it seems, having read lots of things on here which seem to go on at Bethel. And that your GB are more interested in their own position and the 'money in their bank accounts', than they are in people who have been wronged by your Org. But JWs still serve the Org blindly. Still putting their money in, and still trying to encourage others to be part of it. But, if you put all your effort into walking 100 miles to a destination, you will not reach that destination if you are walking in the wrong direction because you have been misguided. So, is your GB and it's Org really guiding you in the right direction ? An important question is, 'Are your GB / Writing Department / management / elders, really qualified to guide you?' Well the scriptures say 'By their works you will know them'. And it's a poor show right now.

Oh American Jehovah's Witnesses how wonderful you are. I thank you for making it known to the world that God's laws and Jesus Christ's instruction are different in each and every state of America. That God's standards are different in every state of America. I do hope you are so pleased with your GB and their lawyers. I'm sure that you are all glad that your GB have saved themselves some money. I'm sure you have not one shred of feeling for any Victim of Child Sexual Abuse in the JW Org. It is the teachings in the JW Org to lose all 'emotion', to rid ones self of fellow feelings and to give praise to the Org and it's GB. So be it. Your GB tell you that you MUST be a Baptised JW to gain salvation, and you believe them. Your GB said that those Victims of CSA were actually apostates telling lies, and you believed your GB. Your GB tells you that Armageddon is 'so close' 'its just around that corner', and you believe the GB. Your GB tells the Elders that it is right to tell lies as it is part of spiritual warfare, and you continue to believe it all. But you then pretend that you don't serve your GB. John Butler had a favourite phrase 'Collateral Damage'. Well some of you think (and say) that I am John Butler.. You are truly welcome to have your own thought as to who I am.... However maybe it is a British way of thinking, to have thoughts and feelings for others. I'm afraid I do not think it is an American way of thinking at all. So America is probably not the best place to have the HQ of what you think is God's Organisation. Having an all American GB or American influenced GB, is proving to be not good. They seem more worried about the money and their OWN positions, than they are about serving God properly. And the GB certainly have no love for CSA Victims in the Org.