Patiently waiting for Truth

Dear Elder @TrueTomHarley it appears that @James Thomas Rook Jr. has just proven YOU to be LIAR. So now YOU are showing YOURSELF to be the MORON. This quaint idea of 'memory loss of convenience' for you, does not convince anyone that you speak truth. What is obvious though Tom, is that my speaking truth upsets you greatly. The proof of that is your continuing insults of me. You call me a moron, you reply to Anna, that I know knowing at all. It is a continual bombardment of insults from you, an (ex) Elder. I think it was James that said 'De nial isn't just a river in Egypt' How right he was. Tom, you push this idea as a pretence, quote " All as reported by those who would be happy if JWs were to vanish off the planet. " You try to use this idea as a way to discredit people and reports, that tell the truth about the GB and the JW Org. In fact Tom, some of those you try to discredit are your Brothers.

Elder Tom you are so funny. But yes I know it is all just click bate. But I have nothing better to do right now, apart from the washing up from dinner, which can wait a bit longer. I'm bored tom and you are good for a laugh. An elder and a story teller. Everything a JW needs to be. You might say that you are an ex elder, but just like police officers, never off duty. ‘Unity of belief means brainwashing?’ Well if the things believed are lies then yes. 1975 definitely seemed like brainwashing and can be proven as such by the reports of those that were there in the JW Org at the time. People were convinced to do all manner of things because the 'end was nigh' And the blood issue. People were convinced to let loved ones die just because the GB / leaders said so. " How bad can the ‘manipulation’ be, someone else observed, if it results it results in people unselfish, with good family values, respectful of laws, honest, peaceable, and so forth? " Tom you are joking of course. There is just as much child abuse, adultery, fornication, lies, deceit and dishonesty in JW Org, as there is in any other religion. And as in all religions, it stars at the top and works it's way downward. GB say 'Lies = spiritual warfare'. Wouldn't it be nice if this were true. " simply translate it as “Jehovah’s Witnesses believe the Bible” " Congregants do not even understand the Bible. What congregants understand is the GB's view of the Bible. What congregants are told to believe is the GB's interpretation of the Bible, which of course is so often wrong. Examples : Superior Authorities, This Generation, Jesus prayed to his Father. His prayer was something like this 'I thank you heavenly Father for giving understanding to these ordinary men and for keeping things hidden from intellectual ones'. But in those times those people were inspired of holy spirit. The boots on the ground congregants now are mainly 'uneducated people'. Hence the greater increases in such lands of lower intelligence or least knowledge.. Such people do not understand the deeper things of God's word, so they can be easily manipulated / brainwashed / convinced, to believe things that sound nice at the time. The tickling of people's ears Tom. You would say it happens in other religions. I'll finish on one point. It is obvious that you have been convinced / manipulated / brainwashed, into believing your GB's viewpoint about loving and serving God. You always write as if God belongs to JW Org. Quote : Witnesses are no more than the modern counterpart of Joshua, famous for his Declaration of Dependence: “Now if it seems bad to you to serve Jehovah, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve...but as for me and my household, we will serve Jehovah.” You cannot get it into your head that JW Org DOES NOT SERVE GOD PROPERLY. That proves manipulation / brainwashing because you are blind to truth.

Do you have an underground shelter with a lock down lid ? Full of food and a radio and cell phone and wiring from a generater located in a strong metal shed and radio controlled starter. And somewhere safe for the chickens ? Um, just one more reason for loving living here in the UK No guns no tornadoes, no GB, no Warwick HQ.

@Isabella Thank you for this information which has been discussed on this forum previously but it's nice to have a refresh. There are many things that I don't quite understand about the GB / their lawyers and JW ORG. (An interesting side note here is this :- Mr Tom Harley, the very sarcastic story teller, tells me that I know nothing. However I do wonder if his attitude was the same toward people when he was an Elder. ) To continue : This American GB / JW Org Database was, so we believe, started in 1997. = 23 years ago. However the Australian Royal Commission, that found 1006 CSA accusations in JW Org Australia, went back 50 years. Now JW Org is an American based religion. It started in the USA. So, if Australia Bethel has Paedophilia reports going back over 50 years. WHY does American Bethel only have a database going back just 23 years ? Next point : I do not have knowledge of how the ARC obtained the 50 plus years of information. Did the Aus Bethel offer the information or did the ARC demand the information ? Either way and even if, court proceeding occurred, the information was obtained by the ARC and was used to make a full investigation. Now here in the UK, I understand that when the Charity Commission asked for similar information from the UK Bethel, that the UK HQ refused to hand it over. I understand that a court case occurred and that the UK Bethel lost the case and had to hand over the information. That is how I understand it, and I've never dug deep into it. But in both case, Australia and UK , the records of Child Sexual Abuse were handed over to those people in authority that were investigating the JW Org. The scripture relating to being in submission to the Superior Authorities would fit well here. It should also be noted, or so my information has it, that the Charity Commission has not closed it's investigation but it is ongoing. Add to this that the IICSA investigation is also in progress here in the UK. So where does that leave the GB and it's Lawyers in America ? We could ask many questions about God's role in all this, and the role of Christ Jesus. In my opinion, God and Christ have washed their hands of it all. How can that which is Holy be involved with that which is not holy. We now know that the GB and their Lawyers are not inspired of God. We also know that the GB has given permission or instruction for the Elders to deliberately tell lies. They are calling it 'spiritual warfare'. Is that really God's viewpoint ? It seems though that there is now a big divide in the different Bethels / JW HQs around the earth. Each country is no longer living 'as one organisation earthwide' all serving God. But each Bethel is 'doing it's own thing' when it come protecting itself against the courts and media coverage concerning Child Sexual Abuse within the CCJW. It seems as if the GB are losing control. The news about the UK congregations money and their properties being taken over by an outside source seems to fit in well here.

Um, I remember saying that this forum was full of elders. And now i also know why Mr Harley is so bitter toward the truth about JW Org.

And do you have proof of that Tom ? i doubt it very much.

The GB gives orders to hide it and it seems it is the Elders that still do not see it as a crime. When Elders knew about a situation in 2016 but kept it hidden until 2019 then the Elders must have considered it was just a conflict within that time period. But I'm learning more and more each day Tom. And each day more and more truth about JW Org is being made public. I see HQ are grabbing all the money and property from the UK Kingdom Halls now.

So the suggestion here is that it is the devil that causes the 'discouragement' in JW Org. So wow, everyone in the Org is happy but it is only the devil that causes discouragement. The Devil is working well through JW Org then isn't he.

Where can you find security in this world?" That is almost funny in the current situation of Child Sexual Abuse earthwide in JW Org. But it's not funny because of the seriousness of it. Quote " But if you keep quiet, then all will be safe." Quote "So next time a conflict arises between you and any of your brothers or sisters, WILL YOU SHOUT ?@ Another topic is talking about manipulation. Well here is a great example of it. Telling congregants to keep quiet and put up with it all. Telling congregants that they will be safe if they keep quiet. Have you not heard ? This child sexual abuse is still happening now in JW Org. DON'T KEEP QUIET, TELL EVERY ONE ABOUT IT, THEN YOU MIGHT EVENTUALLY BE SAFE FROM THESE PAEDOPHILES .

Yes, it reminds me of a scripture about building a house on sand and it gets washed away. The JW Org was definitely built on very poor foundations. Each Creative day being 7,000 years long ? I think that idea got washed away. But i know nothing about the pyramid and the eye. ????

Quote @Arauna " So the argument that the children are 'victims' of JWs is just another ploy or a 'manipulation' of the truth......." Everything I wrote above is true. Unfortunately Arauna and Tom do not want to see the truth. The JW Org makes people accountable to them, not to God. Remember 'You must be a baptised JW to gain salvation', IN THEIR OPINION And a person has to get baptised into JW Org, because they DO NOT use the proper words at Baptism. Now that is manipulation.

Ah is that where those poor GB members used to live, poor guys.

Following on from above comment. A quote from the link :- "It is incontrovertible from these documents that the elders of the congregation knew about (the girl's) allegations since at least December 2016 - when (she) was aged nine.They did not report those allegations to the police until July 2019. To ALL those JWs that say it is all old cases that happened years ago. This is NOW. And shows it is still happening. Get your heads out of the sand and stop denying it. Elders deliberately protect paedophiles. For whatever reasons, JW Org is still protecting / hiding Paedophiles.

It's not going to stop whilst the GB are in charge. Time for proper Anointed to step in, but it won't happen unless God through Christ makes it happen.

Um, Children of JW parents. @TrueTomHarley are manipulated. Didn't a member of the GB say something like 'Don't let them have their driving licence until they get baptised'. I do know, having known the JW Org for over 50 years, that children of JW Parents are bribed / manipulated. A child raised as a JW has to go to the meetings, has to mix with mainly JWs and other JW children. And had to go on the ministry at weekends. They do not get an option. They have to go where their parents take them. Then there is the competition that you don't believe in, about getting them baptised. At 6 or 7 years old ? Well maybe the child gets to be 10 before the real pressure in put on, or the bribery. Then of course if a child hasn't been allowed to mix with 'people of the world', because 'the world is so wicked', then that is a form of manipulation. Why ? Because it has formed a wrong opinion in the child's mind. The child will actually believe it's parents. The child will be frightened to mix with 'people of the world' and won't trust anyone outside the Org. Totally unfair. And then you have the 'You don't need higher education'. Now that again is manipulation. If you stop your child getting higher education, you have changed the direction of that child's life. That is manipulation. In my opinion, manipulation isn't just pushing a person in a direction, it can also be, putting up a barrier to make a person change direction, especially if that new direction is the deliberate intention of the person in control. And of course once a child is baptised the manipulation gets worse as the Elders now have control. The threat of shunning and disfellowshipping, and thereby being thrown out of home, is the new fear a child has. I've seen it all take place. I've seen a young man made to live in the family garage as he had nowhere else to live, but they would not let him live in the house. Manipulation is alive and well in the JW Org. It's not in people's mind. There is proof of it happening.

@James Thomas Rook Jr. Um, I remember you writing about marking your cheque 'For Local Needs' or something like that. So what do you think then ? " Five documents were leaked, including a private letter to all elders, a separate letter to be read to congregations, ............ " So sly but why ? What do they need to hide ? And some say this religion is 'the truth' " The language used cleverly suggests that the merger is optional: " " It may be of interest to the Charity Commission that congregational compliance to central directives is not optional. All resolutions placed before congregation members from the Jehovah’s Witness governing entities are passed without contest. " " ...the latest directive appears to give the Kingdom Hall Trust the ability to extract funds normally marked for local use only, and allocate them for use by Jehovah’s Witness leadership anywhere in the world." The next move is to to take all the money and whatever land documents, and take it all to the USA HQ. UK JWs will own nothing. Well I've said it before, the GB are a dictatorship.

And made a lot of money for 'some people' too

Um, I'll just go with the fact that you are American. And each to their own ways.

@James Thomas Rook Jr. Quote "Never ONCE have they been right about anything in the real world. If they did not have an unlimited and constantly flowing waterfall of "Free Money", they would have imploded, years ago. " (end of quote) And have they been right about much spiritually ? But James, you and many others still follow them, still go to conventions, still put money in their pot. Still listen to the words of the GB and read the words of the Writing Dept. Why ? If, as you know, they are not guided by God's Holy spirit, then isn't it all just a waste of your time ? Of every JWs time ? And those people in Russia are suffering for nothing. Just because they serve the GB and it's Org. Well in my opinion the GB have much blood on their hands and have no chance of being Anointed servants of God at all.

Didn't you open the PDF file on the very first comment of Jack's ? It open clearly enough. And if it's lies then I would think it could be regarded as fraud or slander. You know how much the GB's lawyers would make of it if it was fake.

I could not imagine you running away if persecution came your way. But seriously, if this is the expected thing to happen to JWs earthwide, then what is the recommended course of action from your 'leaders' ? Personally I'm a coward and it would take a lot of answered prayers for me to stand firm against physical persecution. So should JWs pray and stand firm, or turn and run ?

That is not a large amount considering what she went through. And it proves that the Elders were either useless or deliberately dishonest. And to think the GB / Org used to say that Elders were chosen by holy spirit.

Quote @Kosonen " And just like Jesus came and ended the old covenant and started a new organization, the christian congregation, so something new will come out of Jehovah's witnesses." I'm in agreement with you on this. but the 'something new' needs to be now. World conditions are bad and getting worse, but could last another ten years, but there has to be a large in gathering before the 'end comes'. And I'm convinced in my mind that the true Anointed will play a bigger part, not the GB. But if the GB / Org are right (and I don't think they are) about being baptised then the baptism has to be the right one, 'in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. NOT in the name of JW Org. I also think that a Bible background is needed but not a JW interpretation. My other feeling is that Yahweh is correct not Jehovah, but some might say that is just a technicality. Maybe a new org, 'Yahweh's Servants'........... just a thought.

I think Joseph and family acted under instruction from God, not man. It was for obvious reasons too. Matthew 2 v 13 & 14. After they had departed, look! Jehovah’s angel appeared to Joseph in a dream,h saying: “Get up, take the young child and his mother and flee to Egypt, and stay there until I give you word, for Herod is about to search for the young child to kill him.” 14 So Joseph got up and by night took along the young child and the child’s mother and went into Egypt. BUT I'm sure I've seen at JW assemblies this idea of facing the 'enemy' What's that scripture about 'Stand up tall and see the destruction of your enemies' (something like that) However Did first century Christians RUN AWAY ? Should JWs run away ? Isn't it about being able to suffer persecution for your faith in God and your love of God ? Or were they 'inspired of God' to flee to Norway ?

A great example of how wrong the GB / Elders and JW Org are And remember that they teach that a person MUST BE a BAPTISED JW to be SAVED. So it is as if they have deliberately killed you @Kosonen Not just spiritual murder, but if Armageddon came it would physical murder. Those Elders and / or Circuit Overseer would be blood guilty. And one even said We have to obey the Governing Body. Most JWs here probably will not believe you, or at least don't want to believe you. Some even say that you don't have to obey the GB. But proof of the pudding .....