Patiently waiting for Truth

Quote @TrueTomHarley ( talking about me ) “the problem is that you are too stupid to read more than two sentences!” And " anything is over your head! " Tom doesn't stop does he Well I read both of the previous long comments you wrote, hence I know that they said nothing of importance. You were just bashing on at those people that have proof of how bad the GB and JW Org really is. But you and others tend to lump all those who find fault with the GB and the Org, together. You do it for convenience of course, as an excuse, because you cannot justify many things the GB and Org do. You tell me I'm too stupid. That's just you trying to make me appear stupid. Just like the GB tried to say it was apostates telling lies about CSA. You say the same thing about me, about anything on the web, about anything that shows up the GB and it's Org for what it really is. Another quote from dear Tom " if that statement is in the Shepherd the Flock book not meant for general distribution, then I would not quote from it even if I had read it. " No Tom, Elders love to keep secrets from the 'boots on the ground' congregants. It's the only way of keeping people in the Org. To tell them the truth would be like asking them to leave JW Org.

The point is though @JW Insider that people in the JW Org, general congregants that is, don't know much about CSA in JW Org. Because if they did I'm sure they would find Watchtower studies and Pubic Talks quite funny.... Those that do know, including JWs on here, don't want reminding of it. I suppose the closed club is a nice quiet place where you can all convince each other how wonderful JW Org is and what a great job the GB are doing. Enjoy it.

@JW Insider quote " 4J laughs at it, to be sure, .." I laugh at dear old Elder Tom because he is deliberately using thousands of words to say what could be said in two sentences. He is trying to blind people with words. Words that have no real meaning. Tom's words : " detractors, The anti-JW activists are only bellyaching, Opposers will always have limits to their efforts because they have nothing to replace what they would take away, " Why is Elder Tom so worried that he has to go on so much ? It's not as if he is being constructive. And you JW I, say "You have several recent posts here that would fit right in to the recent topic that Anna started in the closed club.." Well now we know what goes on in the 'closed club' then. So funny JWI. Can you not see why I laugh ? Dear Elder Tom. If i had the power and authority and the desire, and if the JW Org were the true servant of God I would replace the CSA in JW Org, with Child care and love. To look after widows and orphans as per scripture I would replace the GB with true Anointed Ones that would receive true guidance through Holy spirit. I would replace the wicked elders with true servants of God. I would replace the lies taught in JW Org with truth and true guidance. I would build a true united people to bring glory to Almighty God and to prepare those ones for the coming trials that of course will come before the Judgement. Now, Jesus Christ has the power and authority to do those things. But does he have the desire to do those things in JW Org ? If Armageddon is 'so close' why is JW Org in such a mess ? Is Jesus holding back for some reason ? Is Holy Spirit being blocked because of the sins of the GB and others of 'high rank' in JW Org ? But elder tom will call this belly aching, because he hates to face the truth about the poor poor Org.

CC I notice you only joined in November last year. I wonder what name you were using before that ? It's strange you need to join me to someone else to make yourself feel good. Does it boost your confidence or just give you a kick. However, yes, Kingdom Halls can be dangerous places if people are not aware of the CSA situation within the JW Org. Most victims will say that once Sexual Abuse has happened to them, it cannot be forgotten. And of course most JWs that have no idea about being Sexually Abused, will say that it can be easily forgotten. JWs are taught to have an emotional on/off switch. Such a drastic switch that it spends 90% of it's time turned off. Hence they have no fellow feeling, no love. As for Paedophiles, it only takes one in a congregation of 150 people, especially if that one is an Elder. No matter what the GB or the Org say, Elders and others do spend time alone with children from the congregation. Part of the 'way of life' in JW Org, is to trust one another. It is 'advertised' as a 'safe place' and the Elders are 'advertised' as 'rocks' or 'pillars of strength' to protect the congregants. That is how it is so easy for an Elder to abuse a child. In most other churches the people in the congregation hardly even talk to each other. They are not in their church chatting half hour before and half hour after the service. Hate. It seems to be a word that JWs on here love to use. Some JWs, including CC and TTH it seems, have a need, a longing, to form this opinion about anyone that dares to find fault with the GB and the W/t and JW Org. In my opinion, it only shows that the JWs using the word 'hate', are the ones that feel that way toward anyone that criticises the GB Org etc. As for me I have no hate toward any human in general. If a reason came up for me to hate someone it would need to be a very serious reason. CSA is global yes. And it is global within the JW Org. Otherwise why are so many countries now involved in doing investigations into JW Org and W/t. This forum is a JW forum, hence it concerns only JWs / GB / JW Org / W/t. Hence it is not 'picking on' the JW Org, it is all about the JW Org. As for law. I'm more interested in God's laws than man's. Quote "There is no redemption for these people" So, CC, has Jesus Christ made you the judge already You who talk of hate.

You have a list of WHAT ? Oh dear, HERO WORSHIP at it's best.

JW Org pretends not to have clergy - laity distinction. And some of the anointed are female whilst here on earth. It seems that spirit persons do not have a gender. However, were all angels that appeared as humans on earth, men ? Quote Srecko. " BUT all are (male and female) ordained ministers. :))" Um, but is this after they are baptised, or is it when they put in a Report sheet for doing ministry ? The plot thickens.

I suppose that's what happens when a person becomes part of the world and starts to dabble in politics Even the old Elder himself, Mr Harley, seems knee deep in politics.

Such lucky ones, that sleep in death, awaiting the resurrection. So peaceful, aware of nothing, no time no place. No worries, no concerns. But on a wonderful and peaceful day they will live again.

John 15 v 7 " If you remain in union with me and my sayings remain in you, ask whatever you wish and it will take place for you " Mark 11 v 24 This is why I tell you, all the things you pray and ask for, have faith that you have received them, and you will have them. Matthew 21 v 22 And all the things you ask in prayer, having faith, you will receive.” When did this stop and why ? Was it only for the 'Twelve' ? Was it only for the Anointed of the 1st Century ? The Governing Body say they are not inspired of God. But the Bible says the scriptures are inspired of God. So, when did this inspiration stop ? If the GB are, which they present themselves to be, a follow on from the '12 and the older men', the first Christians, then why is the CCJW and Watchtower in such a mess ? Why are they not inspired by God's Holy spirit ? It's such a simple question. Just reason on it. IF, God wants / needs to have / wants to use, an Organisation of humans, the why isn't he inspiring them with Holy spirit ? I'm not suggesting the 'laying on of hands', or 'miracles of material things'. But why not true guidance ? Just read those three scriptures at the top again. You can see Jesus' promises. But they are not being fulfilled. Why ?

Oh dear @TrueTomHarley I quote " Countless persons are arrested with regard to child sexual abuse. Their religious affiliation or lack of is never reported. But then I quote " Unlike virtually anywhere else, where the leaders of an organization are themselves the abusers.." Um, Catholic church comes to mind Tom. But Tom you said "Their religious affiliation or lack of is never reported." .... So if their 'religious affiliation' is never reported, then how come the Catholic church was being reported on long before the JW Org ? Quote : The current “gold standard” of child sexual abuse to “go beyond the law” will inevitably cause you problems with those who, not surprisingly, expect you to abide by law. Which law Tom, God's or man's ? Those people that love God and Christ would expect the GB and it's Org to obey God as ruler rather than men. Whose 'law' and 'rules' and 'principles' do you live by Tom ? God's or man's ? Quote " Therefore efforts to prevent it ought to be given at least as much creedence " TOM, wake up. It hasn't been efforts to prevent it. It has been efforts to hide it. Elders have been allowed to remain in their positions even though it was known that they had been and still were sexually abusing children. Tom you are back to your old trick, but it does not work. There is NO POINT AT ALL comparing the GB and it's rotten Org to the world which belongs to the Devil. You should compare them to God's standards required for His people. Quote: .Tragically, it happens, and when it does Jehovah's Witnesses follow the law. Which law Tom, God's or man's ? And which law should they be following ?

Thank you @Witness That was a lot of reading but well worth it. I'm sorry if I seem insulting toward Americans but there was such a big difference between calmly reading all that, or, listening to voices on video. Unfortunately the people on video look as if they are cheering a ball game not reporting on something serious. But keep it up Witness, the more information available the better. Thank you again.

Sorry I cannot watch American videos because they just have toooooo much hype. It's on both sides of the fence, the GB and the news media. It must just be the 'American way'. Is there a link to a news article which i can actually read instead of listening to this ? I do not understand Kosonen's comment at all. Quote " Former Jehovah's witnesses who turn to authorities to punish the WT organization " Um, how about, former JWs that have to turn to the 'Superior Authorities' (authorised to be in place by God) to get justice AND to warn others AND to show the hidden immorality and disgusting deeds of the GB and JW Org. It's not ex JWs punishing anyone, it's the legal system of the Superior Authorities doing their job..

And when the GB bark, all JWs jump. And every bark is a false alarm or a lie. Maybe the GB has as much intelligence as the dog. Certainly the GB has as much spiritual guidance as a dog. But hey, if the GB want to compare themselves with dogs, maybe they are waking up a bit. Um, an organisation, JW Org, run by dogs

I thought JWs were 'no part of this world'. Um so even that is a lie.

Quote @César Chávez " Does that mean, the government has FREE, reign in collecting information? NO! Many states are overstepping their authority to appease the masses, according to their own established laws. Those are the arguments being presented all around the world to the courts." But just read Jesus' words that God's servants SHOULD LIVE BY. Matthew 5 v 38 through 42. “You heard that it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’a 39 However, I say to you: Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him.b 40 And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment;c 41 and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one asking you, and do not turn away from one who wants to borrow from you. Do you see the huge difference in JWs attitude as different to Jesus' words ? So why oh why JWs, do you pretend to live by Bible 'rules' and principles ?

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said: " Tell the brothers that you’ll try to refrain from running ahead. " This is funny Tom. Don't you know that your organisation has been running ahead from it's beginning ? Russell ran ahead with his ideas of when Armageddon was coming and about the return to earth of the prophets. JW Org ran ahead in the 1970's screaming that Armageddon was here. And now you, dear elder, criticise a man for having his own thoughts.

This is good news. But I'm not one for wishing for massive payouts. I think it is clearly known by now that the GB and their Lawyers are dishonest, the Watchtower Soc and CCJW are run by those GB and lawyers, so are there by also dishonest. And Jesus said at Matthew 5 v 40 - 42 And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment; 41 and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one asking you, and do not turn away from one who wants to borrow from you. So, some balance is needed. The GB and their lawyers are greedy dishonest people. The lawyers of the victims are greedy and may be dishonest people. BUT, the victims are in the middle of it all. If the GB didn't use dishonest lawyers. If the GB served God and lived and acted and worked by Bible 'rules' and principles, as Jesus' words above, then this situation would not be here. The GB are the ones that bring shame on the Watchtower Soc' and on JW Org. So, unfortunately the whole W/t and CCJW will suffer because of the sins / dishonesty of the GB. Didn't the Nation of Israel suffer for the sins of King David ? It is quite obvious that if there is a Paedophile in a congregation, the whole congregation should be told who it is and should be on special alert. 1 Timothy 5 v 20 Reprove before all onlookers those who practice sin, as a warning to the rest. v 21 says " I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus and the chosen angels to observe these instructions without any prejudice or partiality ". Do you read this. Without any prejudice or partiality. The GB and it's Elders use verse 19 as an excuse to disbelieve CSA accusations, but do not use verses 20 and 21. Hypocrites.

In fact many of you have admitted that JW Org is not unique, by saying that all religions have problems such as Child Sexual Abuse and immorality etc. So most of you admit that JW Org is just like all other religions. JW Org also DOES have a clergy class, the Elders. Those Elders run the meetings, give Public talks and do the Watchtower study. They are the leaders in Field Service. They also act as policemen in the congregations. They listen to the confessions of the congregants. Those Elders also claim Clergy Penitent Privilege. How could they do so if they were not clergy ? There are collection boxes at every Kingdom Hall and they do ask for donations at assemblies. Not so united when it comes to CSA problems. Some countries hand over files, USA refuses to hand over files. There seems to be plenty of politics mentioned on here . Fully integrated ? Um, I suppose that means they will sit in the same KH or assembly together. I suppose the question should be What makes JWs think they are unique ?

@James Thomas Rook Jr. let's speak honestly here. Does anyone, 'boots on the ground' congregants, know any truth about what goes on in the upper regions of the Watchtower Soc' / JW Org / GB and their lawyers ? Especially here in the UK being so far away from the main HQ. There are rumours about them being involved in all sorts of businesses. I was a little surprised to find the IBSA London Properties, and still do not know truth about the 'original IBSA verses the JW IBSA etc ??? I do realise that of late i have been looking for faults in JW Org. But in honesty it does not take much effort to find the faults because there are so many.. Quote : I for one, have cut my contributions back to about 1/3 of what I normally intend to contribute. You must have your reasons for doing so.

However, because elders would no longer serve as trustees, your local donations would be administered by KHT as part of its general funds. This could mean that the Trustees decide to use your donations to support the Kingdom work elsewhere in our branch territory and throughout the world to meet the needs of our brothers and sisters.

Um, So if congregants here in the UK stop their contributions to the JW Org then the money taken will have to be returned. Quote : "This is in harmony with the equalizing explained at 2 Corinthians 8:14 “… that by means of an equalizing, your surplus at the present time might offset their need, so that their surplus might also offset your deficiency, that there may be an equalizing”.” "

Tom's view of James " Much of your presence is clearly vindictive. Much of your presence here is the plain wish to settle scores, the plain manifestation of the grudge to end all grudges. " That elder Mr Harley sure does love to judge others.

Yes, and trees do no harm.

Quote @James Thomas Rook Jr. " I think your judgement is premature or possibly wrong for any number of legitimate reasons." Well then I think it matches his judgement of me But I can also understand you defending a brother, even if he is wrong . And elders have been told they can tell lies as it's spiritual warfare Yes 3 smiley faces as I do think it's all so funny. James, you seem to have shown proof by providing photos of the letter where it actually says it. Unless that letter is fake ? But being as JWs can tell lies and seem to have a clear conscience about it, then there is no level playing field and no knowing truth from lies on here or anywhere else that JWs tend to comment.

I've replaced excitement with peace, calmness and happiness .