Patiently waiting for Truth

I really am glad I'm not American, sorry folks. Do we get this type of problem here in UK ? I've no idea, I've never been that deeply involved in worldly thinking. But really, misuse of material that is for public use anyway ? Sorry it makes no sense to me. John Butler got D/fed. I wonder if he was about to get sued for some made up story about 'threat to human life' ?

You need to learn the difference between serving God through Christ, OR serving the CCJW through the GB. I don't think people question scripture, but they do question how your GB misuse scripture.

James, you make me laugh. As TTH has said, you do have a way with words. But still you seem to support the 'cause'. To quote Jesus words at Luke 9 v 50 “Do not try to prevent him, for whoever is not against you is for you.” So if you are not against the Governing Body of CCJW, I presume you must be for them. Or are you 'sitting on the fence' ? Playing both sides.

It is not I that has "rejected" scripture, it is you that has done so, and for what, to find an excuse to further your personal cause. A cause riddled in ignorance. My 'cause' is to get closer to God through Christ and through God's written word, not through men. My search is for truth. The CCJW does not seem to have truth.

It's obvious that Billy the Kid / Allen / Mc Nelly, does not want to live by God's standards, and does not want the GB and CCJW to live by God's standards either. No point in repeating scripture as he doesn't have faith or belief in it.

The same "due process" is afforded to all that enter into a legal challenge. Therefore, what's good for opposers is also good for the Watchtower. BUT JESUS SAID Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him.b 40 And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment;c 41 and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one asking you.. What part of that do you not understand ?

Quote ' If not, what's the point in wanting to be Christian if obedience is not is one's heart. Baptism is a direct pledge to God. ' Obedience to God through Christ is what is required. And baptism is to God through Christ too. Neither requires obedience to men or an organisation.

"There is a generation that is pure in its own eyes, but has not been cleansed from its filth.” Thanks @TrueTomHarley that fits your GB and CCJW very well. I did read it all as you knew I would, and I laughed all through it. Thank you for giving me something to laugh at. As I've mentioned before though, it seems your only purpose for being on this forum is to promote your own writings/books. I see that as selfish but you probably see it as opportunity. If Australia (CCJW) started recording CSA accusations over 50 years ago then America being the starting point of the religion, would surely have started recording CSA before that. So the leaders, even prior to there being a GB, would have known about the problem. Besides which, if the CCJW was in any way inspired by God, they would have been well prepared to sort it out when it first started. If God gave the Nation of Israel guidelines, why would he not give His so called 'chosen organisation' guidelines ? And of course TTH deliberately fails to mention that, in the 1st century, Christians WERE INSPIRED OF GOD. Hence 1st century Christians were given guidance by God's Holy Spirit. THEY DID NOT DO IMPORTANT THINGS, OF THEIR OWN ABILITY. Whereas the leaders of CCJW, the GB, are NOT inspired of GOD, so are not capable of doing important things, such as guiding God's people. And as TTH seems to like going on about CSA. One more important point is this. IT IS NOT ONLY THE CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE ITSELF, THAT IS THE CRIME AND SIN, BUT IT IS THE HIDING OF PAEDOPHILES IN THE CONGREGATIONS, AND KEEPING SECRET THE INFORMATION OF SEXUAL ABUSE, THE TELLING LIES, THE REFUSING TO COOPERATE WITH THE 'SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES' (who are set in place by God), THE DESTRUCTION OF HARD COPY PAPERWORK, AND THE ATTITUDE OF THE GB AND OTHERS IN 'AUTHORITY' WITHIN THE CCJW. ONE PAEDOPHILE IN ONE CONGREGATION CAN ABUSE 5 OR 10, OR 20 CHILDREN OVER A NUMBER OF YEARS. So TTH, it's not the number of paedophiles in CCJW that is the only issue.

Oh how these followers of MEN are showing their hurt and pain at being exposed. Dear TTH is trying so hard to put me to shame, and for what ? Asking someone's opinion on matters. Where as what does TTH offer in spiritual thoughts and words ? To quote TTH " The very idea is so preposterous—a true anointed to appear out of who-knows-where at the final moments of this system of things, with just enough time for the true sheep of the earth to recognize, grab hold of them, and thereby save themselves at the final day. It’s just too ridiculous. " Firstly I never said 'at the final moments of this system of things'. I said that 'in my opinion' it would be another 10 years before Judgement Day, and the true Anointed would be known long before that. As for 'the true sheep of the earth' that is the expression of TTH not me. And as for thereby save themselves, um, I always thought it was God through Christ, that did the 'saving' not the people saving themselves. My feelings are that TTH thinks all miracles are just too ridiculous. to actually believe. Showing a complete lack of faith. As for LHMcN I think he needs to re-read scripture about worshipping. Quote "Are you saying, witnesses are actively worshiping the GB?' Yes they are worshipping the GB and the writing dept and JW Org. JWs have been worshipping the Organisation since it's birth. The early 1970's was proof positive of such. When GOD'S WRITTEN WORD makes it so clear that humans will not know the day or the hour, BUT an Organisation's leaders tells its congregants that Armageddon will be in the early to mid 1970's, and so those congregants obey the instruction of their leaders against the instructions of GOD'S WORD, then those congregants are worshipping the leaders of that Organisation. Further more the name Jehovah seems to be less relevant now to that Org as the JW Org logo seems to take precedence.

A federal judge in San Francisco ruled a Redditor’s posts citing Watch Tower’s copyrighted works were fair use but that online free speech “is a developing area where the standards are far from settled.” Reddit will not have to turn over the identity of a user to the organizational body of the Jehovah’s Witness faith after a judge ruled Monday in a copyright dispute with major potential implications for online free speech. In a 16-page order, U.S. District Judge James Donato of the Northern District of California found that a Reddit contributor’s posts critiquing the church and its administrative body, Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, were a non-infringing fair use of the group’s copyrighted works. Rejecting a magistrate judge’s prior recommendation, Donato granted a motion to quash a subpoena from Watch Tower seeking identifying information of a Redditor known as Darkspilver. The subpoena, issued to Reddit last January, sought Darkspilver’s subscriber information, name, telephone number, address, email and IP addresses, under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Reddit declined to respond to the subpoena, and the Electronic Frontier Foundation intervened on behalf of the anonymous user. “The only authorized purpose for the subpoena under the DMCA was to discover his identity as an alleged copyright infringer to protect Watch Tower’s copyrights,” Donato said. “If Darkspilver establishes that he made fair use of the copyrighted works, no claim of copyright infringement could plausibly be alleged against him, and the subpoena would not be authorized under the DMCA.” Last May, U.S. Magistrate Judge Sallie Kim of the Northern District of California ruled that Reddit must reveal the identity of the user, but only to attorneys involved in the case. Donato said Kim’s approach of applying the First Amendment to anonymous online speech was problematic. “It is a developing area where the standards are far from settled,” he wrote. Donato also said that Kim’s invocation of the two-part test for anonymous speech the Northern District of California developed in 2005 in Highfields Capital Management v. Doe did not involve the key elements of copyright or the DMCA. “Highfields, the source of the test, involved claims sounding in trademark and unfair competition, but not copyright law or fair use,” he said. When it came to the fair use arguments, the judge said that Watch Tower failed to challenge any of the evidence. “Instead, it offers the general challenge that the inquiry is ‘woefully premature’ because fair use is an affirmative defense that can’t be considered unless and until a complaint is on file,” according to the opinion. “This is a surprising proposition given that Watch Tower was required to evaluate fair use before sending its take-down notice to Reddit, and that Watch Tower and its attorney represented they had done that. They are not well situated to say now that the inquiry should wait.” Reddit and Alex Moss of the Electronic Frontier Foundation did not respond to a request for comment Monday evening. Watch Tower’s counsel, Paul D. Polidoro, an in-house lawyer for Watch Tower in Warwick, New York, and Anthony Smith of the Law Office of Anthony V. Smith in San Mateo, California, also did not respond to a message requesting comment late Monday. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I seriously cannot under why the GB / Watchtower are spending Congregant's money on such court cases. Matthew 5 v 38 through 42 states quite clearly “You heard that it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’a 39 However, I say to you: Do not resist the one who is wicked, but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other also to him.b 40 And if a person wants to take you to court and get possession of your inner garment, let him also have your outer garment;c 41 and if someone in authority compels you into service for a mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one asking you, and do not turn away from one who wants to borrow from you.d The GB and their Lawyers obviously do not live by this scripture.

It is very sad to see those people that pretend to serve God, but are making is so so clear on this forum that they serve an Organisation run by men. That they have to take a serious subject and mock it purely because they cannot stand truth, or are too frightened to examine their own personal reasons for serving men instead of serving God through Christ. It would be so easy to pull apart everything they say, but I'm sure the scriptures tell us not to argue with such ones. They have set themselves in a comfortable position whereby they just follow the rules and teachings of 8 men and a writing department, even though they know that those 8 men and writing department are not inspired by God's holy spirit. It reminds me of millions of people following a young girl, Greta something or other. Some people just have to follow another person or group of people. They have to have a physical person or object to see and serve with their human eyes. Did they never have a spiritual 'eye' ? Could they never see with their hearts the things set before us by God. I suggest that those people spend more time reading the scriptures. Rebuild your faith in God. Remember that ALMIGHTY GOD CAN DO MIRACLES. And that HE CAN SUPPLY HOLY SPIRIT for whatever purpose HE chooses. If Gods wants to put new leaders in place, or if God wants to have a new Organisation, can you stop Him? Are you so proud of the GB and what it has done ? Are you proud of all the failure in JW Org ? Do you honestly think God and Christ are proud of the GB and JW Org ? And the main question I suppose for each of us is, Would YOU make adjustments in YOU OWN life to serve God properly through Christ and not through men ? Time will tell. And God's plans will move forward with or without any of us. Soon may God's name be sanctified. Soon may God's will be done here on this Earth as it is being done in heaven.

@JJJ-AUSTRALIA I agree with you, but my point was that God can use His holy spirit to cause miracles to do anything He wants to. Therefore, IF God wanted to use the CCJW / Watchtower / JW Org then God is able to make those organisations useful for Himself. Otherwise God will need to either use another org' or start a completely new 'religion' / Org. There are different opinions but in some form or another the International Bible Students Association / Bible Students, changed and became the Jehovah's Witnesses, which i think is now called the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses CCJW. So it has already changed names a few times, though still not serving God properly. But it could change name again and be led by true Anointed ones that are inspired of holy spirit and then it could be brought inline with God's purposes through Christ. Or do you think God will start a completely new organisation / religion ?

Thank you, and I agree with you on many of those. I'll quote you though ".... by some miracle....." And I Will quote @James Thomas Rook Jr. " You are living in a fantasy world of unreasonable expectations ". Now lets think back to Bible times. A large group of people arrive at a large body of water, and these people are being chased by a nasty enemy. And you can hear one of these people say "It would take a miracle to get across that water and away from our enemy. God, Moses, Red Sea = miracle. And then lets think of a man, the most wonderful man ever to have walked this Earth. But wait he's been killed, hung up to suffer and die. And you can imagine His followers thinking that it's all over and that they will never see Him again. But then the miracle, Jesus is resurrected. Tell me, where is your faith ? Have you all stopped believing in miracles.

More excuses for not answering simple questions. Most of what is written on this and many other forums is only opinions. Most conversation in the real world is only opinion. Global warming / climate change for one example. So many opinions not so many true facts. The use of blood and blood fractions in the JW world is another. But then it's called conscience not opinion. Even to the point, as the GB are not inspired, neither is the Writing Department, then all they say and write is only their opinions. BUT JWs live their lives by the opinions of the GB and Watchtower magazine. Those opinions are regularly wrong, proven by the FACT that they have to keep changing their opinions and writings.. Your using the excuse of being a Barbarian, to pretend that your 'reality' is more real that anyone elses, is only your opinion. But each person's reality is different. But never mind James, if you do not wish to answer a few small basic questions, so be it.

But as the GB and JW Org are not inspired of God how will they ever know ?

I notice that those people who think they are serving God properly through the CCJW cannot or will not answer the questions I've asked. I do hope in fact that I am judged by God's standards through Christ. And i don't know of anyone that expects perfection in any human. But I don't use the world's standards as an excuse to drop my standards, and i wouldn't expect an organisation that says it is God's only means of salvation, to drop their standards either. My feeling is concerning the two 'brothers' above, that they are almost frightened to think about the changes needed to bring the CCJW up to God's expected standards. I know God does not expect perfection from humans but I think He does expect people to make a strong effort. (Watchtower online library) “Exert Yourselves Vigorously”! “Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able.”—Luke 13:24. However, my point of 'changes needed' relates to time left to make such changes before the coming judgement. And to, what i presume would be, a 'great influx' of people, into 'God's chosen organisation'. I still think it will be a few years before the whole CSA problem is sorted and with the possibility of the CCJW losing charitable status in some countries, there could be great financial losses ahead. But if a true Anointed are 'raised up' within the CCJW then things could move forward quicker, as the org would be more likely to receive God's holy spirit. On the other hand, God might just build another organisation through Christ, using Anointed ones that are not wanted by the CCJW. .

This comment did not answer the question and may just as well have been a comment about the flavour of bananas

Quote @Leander H. McNelly " Maintain the spiritual stance of obedience to the almighty. " The obedience to Almighty God is through Jesus Christ, not through CCJW / JW Org / GB. If a person honestly feels, through prayer and deep study and meditation on God's word, that the GB and the Watchtower / JW Org are wrong, then that person has to take action to break away from that 'bad association'. As to the promise in baptism, the JW Org baptism is not done in accordance to scripture. You will know that of course.

If the CCJW is going to be God's / Christ's chosen Organisation to bring humans through Armageddon / Judgement Day What serious changes need to take place in it first ? As you know my feelings are that neither God nor Christ can use the CCJW as it is. But I am seriously trying to think on a more spiritual level so I'm trying not to be biased. By reading many comments on this forum I've noticed that even those JWs that resolve to stay firmly in the 'Org', still have some feelings of discontent. So the question I'm asking is more to those JWs who are remaining 'faithful' to the CCJW and it's GB. Do you see the need for big changes in the way the CCJW is run ? Do you really believe that God & Christ are happy with the CCJW as it is ? I am not deviating from my belief of a 'true Anointed' being 'raised up' in these 'last day', but as I've said before that 'true anointed' could well be within the CCJW. I'm keeping my mind 'open' to all manner of thoughts, whilst trying to, hopefully with God's guidance, find truth. However, I am of the opinion that 'new light' via the GB, will not provide the answers or right direction that is needed. But that is just my personal opinion, and I may be proven wrong................

@Kosonen Your research here and topic is well timed for me. Thank you I am praying more each day and always ask for forgiveness of my sins. But of course some days feel better than others. There always seems to be too many 'physical things' to do each day, so sometimes spiritual things / thoughts get pushed to one side... The 'Sunday meetings' (and the evening meeting) at the Kingdom Hall did have / or should have had, that opportunity to rid one's mind of all other thoughts and just think on a spiritual level. However the 'food' on offer was not spiritual food from God through Christ and the underlying 'goings on', were not good, so I classed it as bad association. Now I have to try to take time out and make myself think on a spiritual level. This is one of the things I ask God for, for direction toward serving Him.

Perhaps some of us are thinking on more spiritual matters. And of course some of us do not live under the GB's CCJW rules. Have a good day James.

Thank you. I've just read it. It is very encouraging.

ACTS 2 V 16 , 17 & 18. On the contrary, this is what was said through the prophet Joel: 17 ‘“And in the last days,” God says, “I will pour out some of my spirit on every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy and your young men will see visions and your old men will dream dreams,l 18 and even on my male slaves and on my female slaves I will pour out some of my spirit in those days, and they will prophesy Jerusalem had the end of it's 'last days' in 70 C. E. But prior to that a 'miracle' happened. Acts 2 v 1 through 11. Now while the day of the Festival of Pentecost was in progress, they were all together at the same place. 2 Suddenly there was a noise from heaven, just like that of a rushing, stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And tongues as if of fire became visible to them and were distributed, and one came to rest on each one of them, 4 and they all became filled with holy spirit and started to speak in different languages, just as the spirit enabled them to speak.5 At that time devout Jews from every nation under heaven were staying in Jerusalem. 6 So when this sound occurred, a crowd gathered and was bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language. 7 Indeed, they were utterly amazed and said: “See here, all these who are speaking are Gal·i·leʹans, are they not? 8 How is it, then, that each one of us is hearing his own native language? 9 Parʹthi·ans, Medes,g and Eʹlam·ites, the inhabitants of Mes·o·po·taʹmi·a, Ju·deʹa and Cap·pa·doʹci·a, Ponʹtus and the province of Asia, 10 Phrygʹi·a and Pam·phylʹi·a, Egypt and the regions of Libʹy·a near Cy·reʹne, sojourners from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,j 11 Creʹtans, and Arabians—we hear them speaking in our languages about the magnificent things of God. We are again in 'the last days', so why would you be surprised if God should pour out some of HIS SPIRIT on a true Anointed group of humans. Where is your faith ? Do you no longer believe in God's power ? Do you no longer believe that God can do 'miracles' ? Your GB have admitted to NOT BEING INSPIRED OF HOLY SPIRIT. Yet here we have in scripture, God's promise that HE WILL POUR OUT SOME OF HIS SPIRIT in the 'last days'. Are we in those LAST DAYS or not ? Do you expect God to act or not ? Or are you just physical men ? Have you lost your 'spiritual eyes' ? Did you in fact even have 'spiritual eyes' ? Are you relying on men and not on God through Christ ?

I do not see myself worthy of anointing, not worthy of life in a paradise earth. I realise that my sins stack up to the heavens.. Only through God's mercy and Christ's judgement will I even get a resurrection. But if I can do even the smallest of things to help God's purpose move forward then I will have been blessed.

Oh @Anna you make me laugh. you really do. Are you so blind ? Do you not know of the perversions and immorality in your CCJW ? Do you honestly think that Almighty God and/or Christ is guiding your GB and its org ? I think that your GB are Christians in name only. I think that CCJW is Christian in name only. You only have to look at the way the GB's Lawyers treat Victims of CSA. And look at how they are still hiding Paedophiles in the American part of your Org. And there have been plenty of things mentioned on this forum, mentioned by JWs it would seem, that show up the CCJW for what it really is. Going back a couple of years we had JWs on here telling how many weapons they have stored up in their homes. and one of those JWs seems to think that God is not bothered by war. I'm sure you have heard many JWs say things that you are not happy with, so please don't be so quick to judge others outside of CCJW. As a non active one, i can say that my faith in God and Christ is much stronger. I feel 'free' to do my own investigating into God's word. i think in a more spiritual way. My prayers are not hindered. I am not putting my trust in men. I am not relying on being spoon fed every Sunday Watchtower which is only men's thoughts and words. Those thoughts and words which are not inspired of God. And you must remember too, that your GB and its org deliberately shun anyone that leaves the Org. So your GB and its Org members are also not showing love, mercy, mildness or kindness.