Patiently waiting for Truth

I re-read what i wrote and stand by it. But if you wish to disagree that is your choice. (Free will) (As a side note, some folks don't like the word 'wrote' so replace with had written) As for your burblings about radioactive materials, um, trying to justify something here ? Great Britain was built on blood and slavery, as was America. But being no part of this world it does not give me a guilty conscience. I am a Christian that happens to live in England, and whilst I'm alive I have to live somewhere. I was also part of an Organisation that causes misery to hundreds or possibly thousands of children and adults. So I got out of that Organisation as soon as I had enough proof to satisfy myself that is wasn't all lies. So now I am no part of this world, and no part of that Organisation. It does leave me somewhat 'homeless' but it also gives me a clean conscience. Whereas you James, seem to be part of both the world and the Org. I think you call it reality ?

Any ideas why Aus info' went back 50 years but American database only goes back 23 years ?

Yes, tom is certainly not a 'spiritual man'.

In view of this it’s hard to deny that “the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place” is something directed against or directly affects God’s “holy people” in the manner described by Daniel's prophecy. (Mt 24:15) Well then it would appear to be the GB and JW Org, as they are acting against the true Anointed ones of the remnant. They have put the Elder body in place of the Anointed and have 'advised' the Anointed not to contact each other and not to have Bible studies together. The GB are a false prophet. All the things they have prophesied have not happened. They continue to change the interpretation of scripture and admit to not being inspired of God. They are indeed a 'disgusting thing.. standing in a holy place'.

So, is the individual killings by a soldier, that trespasses on another persons land to take possession of it, murder ? Surely it is premeditated killing. In Bible times the Israelites were told to give the enemy a chance to surrender before going in for the kill. But if an army of soldiers go straight in for the kill, just to take the land belonging to others, surely that is murder. Those soldiers know that they will be deliberately killing people. That is premeditated. And, it is also racist. For an army of soldiers to deliberately steal land from another nation, that army of soldiers must think they have more right to own that land. Therefore it shows that the army of soldiers are of a mind that their race is superior and has more rights than the other nation. That has to be racism. James there has to be a reason you are pushing your point of view on this so much. It brings forth the question, are you American or are you a Christian ?

But because you are all 'physical people' not 'spiritual people' you still all see it as a nothingburger as Mr Harley puts it. People have been 'killed' spiritually by being stumbled either by being abused, being a relative of the one abused, being disfellowshipped because of complaining of abuse, being shunned for complaining of abuse, but it's just a 'nothingburger' to you JWs, because you worship your GB and it's Org. Anna talks about legal rights. Tom dismisses it a a 'nothingburger'. It seems that none of you are seeing the spiritual wickedness (as well as physical wickedness) within JW Org. @JW Insider your comment comes closest to being balanced and showing what 'could have happened' from both sides. To quote "Some things seem very unlikely to us because we all have preconceived ideas about what such data would look like." I'm glad you can see that from both sides. But still it's just 'data' whereas the truth is it's REAL PEOPLE that have had their lives ruined. Anna says ""Evidence" is a lot more forgiving ". Um, evidence can be true or false. And in JW Org, using 'spiritual warfare', it is more likely to be false.

Well it shows Tom's view of the victims of CSA in JW Org. "a relative nothingburger". And poor old tom is still trying to twist things for his own advantage. Where is you honesty @TrueTomHarley ? Where is you truthfulness ? Where is you love and mercy ? Where is your true service to Almighty God ? Oh how you show your true colours, but then Christ knows your true intentions of the heart anyway. Quote @JW Insider " But it's not likely true that an ex-JW will automatically have a more balanced view. " Prejudiced or what ? And then you go on to list your reasons that Ex-JWs are not balanced . So be it, but Ex-JWs are not under the pressure that JWs are under from the Elders, Circuit Over seers et al. Now going back to the CSA, one of my points has always been not only who committed the dreadful crime of abuse, but also THOSE THAT COVERED IT UP.

Quote Anna " it seems the issue here is the American database. We are under NO obligation to hand over this database to lawyers, and if for some reason Lawyers do get a hold of them, then they are forbidden to make them public." Oh dear, the physical man verses the spiritual man or woman. Have you no idea what Jesus said about anything ? I'm not at all interested in the legal obligation. I'm interested in the spiritual things. What would Jesus want the GB to do, if you really think the JW Org belongs to God through Christ. ? ANNA burbles on about what the 'lawyers' want, but she forgets about what the GB Lawyers are doing and what they want. Quote "Most JW survivors are not interested in filing lawsuits.." JW's are told what to do and what not to do. There is a threat of retaliation by shunning or being disfellowshipped under false accusation. JWs are told to hide their feelings and 'leave it to Jehovah'. Quote Anna "In contrast, many ex-JW survivors want to sue the organization because they hate it and want to see it "burn". That's a Tom Harley line right there. I think you are taking lessons from Elder Tom. The truth is ex-JWs are not restricted by threats from the Elders of the congregation, they have found a relative 'freedom' outside the JW Org. So they have a more balanced viewpoint. But hard core JWs such as TTH and yourself do not want to see it that way. If they have a hate, it would probably be toward the paedophile that abused them and the Elders that hid the paedophile in the congregation. And it might possibly be that it was an Elder that was the paedophile. And, it might be that the paedophile abused more than one person because the Elders did nothing to prevent it. But then if the Elders were acting upon instruction from HQ then HQ would be to blame. As for the JW Org burning, it is already. It's burning slowly, but John Butler got d/fed from this forum for saying more, so I will stop here.

It seems it will never ever go away. https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/jehovahs-witnesses-sexual-abuse-wales-17700382 Ex-Jehovah's Witness elder describes how he was abused by fellow worshipper as a boy John Viney was a church elder when his own daughter revealed she had been assaulted by her uncle. Now the 67-year-old has described how he himself was systematically abused for five years.

Um, sick me thinks. But everyone's 'real world' is different. Even the members of a family all living in one house. My 'real world' is very simple. because i make it that way. Therefore my 'real world' is quite peaceful and relaxing. No longer living by man made fake religious rules has made my 'real world' very different. Whilst I watch others still worrying and frightened of breaking those man made rules. But spiritual thinking is above the devil's real world. And why would i even want to be thinking about that world. All earthly governments / politicians / news media / protest groups et al, all belong to the devil's real world. The internet in bombarded with it all. It's almost unavoidable to see but no one needs to dwell on it. Just one point though : To quote you " Although I try to live my life according to Bible Standards, " But whose version of Bible Standards do you try to live by ? Is it the GB's / JW Org version, or your own version ?

You play the same old record but you have no proof at all. Tom you do not know who has or is committing the abuse in JW Org. 1. Because it is hidden in congregations around the Earth 2. Because the GB / Lawyers are still hiding that 23 year American JW Database. So how can you know Tom ? You just make it up as you go along, and most times it's just to promote your own books. Very selfish Tom.

Yes James but I'm trying to think from a spiritual aspect. But I'm beginning to wonder James, are you one of Jehovah's Witnesses or not ? And what do think the real 'time of the end' will be like ? Do you think all God's people will be sat in their homes drinking coffee whilst all the 'wicked' are being 'removed' outside ? I do remember the JW video of all the bros and sis hiding in the basement when the soldiers come looking for them. I'm hoping to be dead and buried before the Judgement Day arrives.

I'm just glad I live in England. I hope this is far enough away from James and his house full of weapons. Hope he doesn't get his hands on missiles. But seriously though, a country that starts a war for greed and power and is willing to kill other people. If the idea is to take land, goods, riches, people, livestock et al. Then it is premeditated killing that should not be happening. I do not think God approves of any of that. I would think that God would class it as murder. Whether as a whole, or as each individual killing. And I would think the ones doing the attacking and killing would be judged differently to those doing the defending. I have mixed feelings about killing for defence. But if someone was attacking my wife then I would think natural defence mechanism would come into play. However, the time will come, as i think @Arauna mentioned, when true servants of God will be attacked and killed. I have my doubts that God is gong to defend everyone of His servants. So, will God's true servants just allow themselves to be killed ? Allowing the stealing of our possessions is easy enough, but allowing someone to kill you / me, i don't know............

I wonder if we should look for a direct scripture that says "You must not transfuse blood from one human to another human".

Quote " Apparently you do NOT know the difference between homicide ... and murder .... and have ONLY your opinion to offer " Apparently you do not know either. And you have only your opinion, oh yes, and your agenda. 4 Classifications of Homicide Capital Murder. Manslaughter. Criminally Negligent Homicide. Murder.

In the final part of the days,*The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains,bAnd it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream.c 3 And many peoples will go and say:“Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah,To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways,And we will walk in his paths.”eFor law* will go out of Zion,And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.f 4 He will render judgment among the nations And set matters straight* respecting many peoples.They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears.gNation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore. Luke Chapter 10 v 29 But wanting to prove himself righteous,h the man said to Jesus: “Who really is my neighbour?” v 36 Who of these three seems to you to have made himself neighbour to the man who fell victim to the robbers?” 37 He said: “The one who acted mercifully toward him.” Jesus then said to him: “Go and do the same yourself.” Matthew 5 v 43 through 48 “You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbore and hate your enemy.’ 44 However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens,h since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous.i 46 For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? 47 And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? 48 You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/wp20151101/is-war-ever-justified/ Today, warring nations often appeal to God for support. But God does not take sides in today’s wars. Instead, in his Word, the Bible, he clearly states: “Return evil for evil to no one,” and, “Do not avenge yourselves.” (Romans 12:17, 19) Moreover, he has made known that mankind should “wait patiently for him” to take action, which he will do at Armageddon. (Psalm 37:7, footnote) When the nations fail to wait for God to act and instead resort to warfare, he views such wars as presumptuous acts of aggression that bring his displeasure. Thus, at Armageddon, God will express his indignation and settle the nations’ disputes once and for all by “bringing an end to wars throughout the earth.” (Psalm 46:9; Isaiah 34:2) Indeed, Armageddon will be the war to end all wars. This whole Watchtower article make it clear that humans have no right to go to war. It makes it very clear that only God has the right to decide when and how war should take place. James, your own org' are showing you that human warfare is murder. When the nations fail to wait for God to act and instead resort to warfare, he views such wars as presumptuous acts of aggression that bring his displeasure. If it's presumptuous acts of aggression, then it is premeditated. And war is always premeditated because it takes planning. Premeditated killing in this way (acts of aggression) is murder. But more importantly it is in opposition to Almighty God. Romans 12 v 21 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good.n

James, what your above comment shows is that you are a physical man not a spiritual man. I note that you have a need to keep referring to earthly things, not spiritual ones Therefore, as on the door to door ministry, I will just walk away and let you believe what you need to believe at this point. In six months time your attitude may be different, but right now you have that need.

Tom, you are unfortunately suffering as JTR Jr is, by lacking in spiritual thinking. You also seem lacking in love. Both you and he are JWs, which you both seem to think is the only true way of serving God. But you both prove by your attitudes that you do not serve God well when compared to scripture. I'm a bit concerned about James, him having a house full of guns and then him trying to justify war. He does not seem as if he is a spiritual man at all. Likewise yourself. You have a need to call me names. I thought you might like a quote from a Watchtower mag' w06 2/15 p. 31 What, then, did the expression “despicable fool” signify? The word used here sounded similar to a Hebrew term that means “rebellious,” or “mutinous.” It designates a person as morally worthless, an apostate and a rebel against God. So the person addressing his fellow as a “despicable fool” is as much as saying that his brother should receive a punishment fit for a rebel against God, everlasting destruction. From God’s standpoint, the one uttering such a condemnation against another could merit that severe sentence—everlasting destruction—himself.—Deuteronomy 19:17-19. Do you think I am 'fit for destruction' Tom ? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote "With JWs it is almost never those who would correspond to clergy.. " Two reasons you might think that. 1. Because when it is Elders or higher ranks committing CSA in JW Org, it is kept hidden in the congregation, anywhere around the Earth.. 2. Because that 23 year Database, of CSA accusations in America, has not yet been OPENED UP to the public. There is another reason but it is a bit debatable. That of a father committing CSA on his own children when the father is an Elder. You might not consider that to be JW Org related even though the father is an Elder. Another quote "because hardly anyone other than JWs tried to do anything about the CSA problem." How is, hiding information from the Police, the Authorities, the congregations, trying to do something about the CSA problem ? It is only trying to 'wash the dish or pot' on the outside, to make it appear clean.

It's not your judgement I need be concerned about. But a spiritual man will know that war is still murder in the eyes of Almighty God.

Bad news, and NOT the way to send any message, but I expect tom harley will just add her to all the rest of the campaign of anti-witnesses around the earth. tom thinks we are all wicked people that belong to the devil.

To quote tom harley once more "Constantly we read of individuals arrested over CSA allegations. The one detail that never accompanies such reports is that of the individual’s religious affiliation or lack thereof. Yet with Jehovah’s Witnesses, that detail is never lacking. Why? " Just to prove what rubbish tom writes here are three examples i've found to disprove his lies. https://abc7news.com/tag/priest-sex-abuse/ https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/church-england-child-sex-abuse-charles-gordon-dickenson-cheshire-vicar-paedophile-a8812131.html https://fox13now.com/2017/06/23/lds-bishop-arrested-for-sexual-abuse/

Maybe my spiritual thinking advises me when to stop reading certain things. I had read enough on this topic to know what you were saying, I don't need to know more.

Mr Harley knows full well that my response is toward the individual comment. His individual comment was :- " The online hate campaign against JWs is indirectly—in some cases even directly—responsible for their persecution, even with torture, as in the above story. " That one sentence of tom's is what my laughing emoji was and still is for. tom knows that and all of you also know that, so tom trying to twist things is just showing him as a true JW Elder. Not to be trusted here or anywhere.

I note how tom has twisted the facts here. My laughing face emoji was towards tom's long and boring comment, making excuses for JW Org. You may note that tom was quoting from one of his books again, which in NO WAY related to the tortured JWs in Russia. Then tom goes on about CSA etc, which again is not about the Russian torture.

You have a problem that only you can deal with James. I didn't even bother to read the above. You seem to have a need for warfare to be ok, just as you seem to have a need to have a house full of firearms. I think both are part of the American Dream, so as I suggested but you ignored, it is better to be no part of this world. Being no part of this world would mean having no need for warfare or firearms.