Patiently waiting for Truth

Um, so maybe some of us people outside the Org would surprise you then Tom. We still sit as a family and eat dinner together, in the evening, though there is only three of us now, all others having left home. You do have a way with your ideas of a typical family. In your opinion they don't eat together and they are one parent families that know nothing about marriage. Any more ideas for your 'typical family' ? As for riches, um W/t / JW Org have plenty, and real estate.

I think the worst type is family politics, especially mother in- laws @JW Insider Yes what you have written there about Russell, in my opinion, would show that he was not inspired of God, nor did he have God's guidance. I believe I've read on here that he wrote unkind things about 'people of colour' too.

Well at least this topic gives signs of truth, to admit that there is immorality within the JW Org. I would imagine that some people might think the JW Org was a safe place to be. As Tom would tell us, immorality happens everywhere. It's just that most congregants and interested ones do not expect it in the Org. Unfortunately I've seen many cases of adultery and divorce here in the South of England JW Org. In honesty i could cry for some of them. Life is difficult and demanding in or out of JW Org. One example :- My wife was invited out for coffee by a sister the other day (yes they still talk to my wife), and they were talking about ( in a constructive way) another sister who has many problems. This sister, was a single mum, was once D/fed, but would bring her two teenage children to the hall for Sunday meetings, just drop them off and pick them up afterwards. Then she got married to a man that had a son (and possibly other children) and she was also reinstated... She would then attend meetings with her children but her new husband was not interested in the JW Org / meetings. In fact her new husband, it seems, was not a pleasant man. So this sister then separated from this new husband. But unfortunately, not long after they split up, her new ex-husband's son, committed suicide.... How this sister is feeling now, who knows. I am wondering, are the Elders visiting her. Is anyone visiting her. She isn't attending meeting it seems... I know her, though not closely, but her situation is very sad. People are individuals and live in different ways, have different thoughts, different needs. Quote "Finally, in some instances (see WT 1991 11/15 p.22 par 15), even Non-Witnesses in the community may find out. This reflects poorly on the very first person who was effected by all of this...Jehovah. " I think this is twaddle. It is a C. O. trying to protect JW Org, not trying to help people. I think in reality the more that the community know the better. This relates to all immorality in the JW Org. Let people know the ups and downs of the Org and that people inside it are just human. It's the hiding of things in the Org that bring the shame on the Org itself.

Is this real ? Who is giving away chocolates with pretend Bible covers ?

SEATTLE — The youngest victim in Wednesday's downtown mass-shooting had successful surgery on a shattered femur at Harborview Medical Center, according to a close family friend, and he may be cleared to go home sometime Friday. The family--who asked that the boy only be identified by his first name--said 9-year-old Judah was shot in the upper thigh when the family was caught in a hail of gunfire. They say Judah had just spent the day with his family and friends on an outing with fellow Jehovah’s Witnesses visiting the Pacific Science Center, and they were all walking through downtown to take a ferry home to Port Orchard. “He remembers walking down the street with his friends, his little sisters and his parents,” said Erik Hanson, a close family friend. “They started to hear gunshots, and the next thing he knew he was on the ground.”

I think American JW's get more wound up with politics that here in the UK. For all the time I was a JW we never spoke about politics, apart from one single brother that I will mention later, but that was just his personal 'theory'... For my part I have no interest in politicians or political parties. I don't vote for any of them. But I did vote to leave the EU. My feelings were that leaving the EU was an action. It wasn't about the political party or the PM, it was about an action that the UK could take. A bit like the W/t outlook on climate change. Do your bit to make things better whilst still being 'no part of the world' But sorry @Arauna I do think you get very 'involved' in worldly affairs. Your own business of course. To me it does not take such a deep look to see how bad the 'world' is getting, and we know it's Satan's world anyway. @JW Insider Maybe you could start off by saying why JWs actually need to look into world politics and worldly affairs ? OK, now this one brother that has a 'theory'. He is a young man, single, probably has too much spare time to think on things. His idea is that the Russians have the remains of Noah's Ark. He has some video footage of what he says are Russian troops breaking up the remains and transporting it to Russia. His idea is that the remains would make more people believe in God and that Russia as a whole wants to remove all beliefs from people. Is that political ? Is it even important ? I only mentioned it as you were writing about folks having crazy thoughts and beliefs.

Press statement concerning sexual abuse report januari 23, 2020adminNieuwsberichten We are relieved that the judge has decided to allow the investigative report to be published. We hope that this report will give a sense of recognition to victims of sexual abuse within the community of Jehovah’s Witnesses. We would like to take the time to read the report thoroughly and hope that we can discuss the conclusions and recommendations with those involved, including the board of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the Netherlands. The report offers opportunities for Jehovah’s Witnesses to improve their approach to sexual abuse within the congregation. Our hope is that individual members of Jehovah’s Witnesses would also take note of the content of this report. Our concern remains that Jehovah’s Witnesses still do not recognise the seriousness of the problem. The summary proceedings instituted to prevent publication of the report underline our concern. Every child deserves to grow up in a safe environment where it feels seen and safe, even within a religious community. Board of Directors Reclaimed Voices Foundation

It is true that I no longer go door to door teaching others about God or about His Kingdom. However i do a bit of what might be classes as 'witnessing' on Facebook and at other opportunities. So I found this quote online and I thought, that it is probably better than I could write it myself. Quote : - Anguish of Nations not knowing the way....Out ? Out of What? “Anguish of nations, not knowing the way out . . . Men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth.” (Luke 21:25, 26) Crime, violence, drug addiction, family breakups, economic instability, unemployment—the list is long and growing. One prominent scientist wrote: “We will eat fear, sleep fear, live in fear and die in fear.” “In the last days critical times hard to deal with.” (2 Timothy 3:1) The apostle Paul spoke of people “having come to be past all moral sense.” (Ephesians 4:19) He elaborated, however, on the moral breakdown he foretold for “the last days.” It sounds like today’s newscasts: “Know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.”—2 Timothy 3:1-5. “In the last days there will come ridiculers.” (2 Peter 3:3) Newspapers, newscasts, magazines, books, and movies scornfully dismiss the Bible and replace it with their own freethinking propaganda, saying, as Peter foretold: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as from creation’s beginning.”—2 Peter 3:4. " : End of quote. But this quote was written a decade ago. TEN years ago. And things are much worse now. I think I've mentioned earlier that I'm into reading all the 'word news' but i did get a topic come up on my FB, page from the Telegraph, about 'some big climate change meeting of top knobs', so I just tried to give it some balance from God's viewpoint. I will of course get a blasting from folks on FB but i can handle that. It helped me also to gain a bit of balance. But then it also creates so many questions. God needs a true, faithful and clean collection of humans for when He decides to 'sort out the problems' down here on Earth. There is indeed much work to be done. Only time will tell how it all plays out, and who HE uses.

Quote @TrueTomHarley " PS: the good guys have all migrated for now to Anna’s new thread on the closed site. You’re welcome to join them. Leave 4Jah, Srecko, and Witness here to talk among themselves. They’ll soon discover that they can’t stand one another. " Yes, @Srecko Sostar it seems that Tom has a slight sickness. Tom seems to have a need to be sarcastic and try to cause trouble. Tom has a need to incite hatred in people and he seems to need to put us down. In honesty @Srecko Sostar you are a person I would like to meet face to face and to have deep discussion with, because your comments seem sincere and sensible and you can reason well on things. There are not many on here I would like to meet with. It would also seem that they have a fear of us, as they need to hide in their 'closed site'. If Tom believes that serving the GB makes them 'good guys' well so be it. Only time will tell. To my own surprise I sort of did a bit of witnessing on Facebook today. Not on behalf of JW Org of course, but on behalf of God. I will put it on a new topic now. Srecko I wish you well and your family also. @Witness I wish you well also. I tend to agree with much that you say, but a lot of your comments are too deep for me to fully understand.

Having just looked at @The Librarian topic about the name Jesus I noticed this The name "Jesus" has a long, long history. The origin of this name is the Hebrew name ????? (yehoshu'a, Strong's #3091 [Latinized as Joshua]), which means "Yahweh saves." Then in another of @The Librarian topics we have this The name Jesus (Gr., I·e·sous′) corresponds to the Hebrew name Jeshua (or, in fuller form, Jehoshua), meaning “Jehovah Is Salvation.” Um, someone cannot make up their mind here. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry @Srecko Sostar I've gone totally off of your topic . Would be good if the @The Librarian could move my comments (except this one) to a new topic, please. To return to @Srecko Sostar 's topic : " After the death of the apostles, professing Christians left off pronouncing the name". Now if that is saying that anyone not using God's name is not a true Christian, then it would of course be important to get God's name right Quote : Notwithstanding, it is almost certain that the name of God was originally pronounced “Yah·wehʹ.” But to quote from Srecko's original topic. In addition, some professing to be a part of the congregation have succumbed to perverted fleshly desires and have sexually abused children. But some of those are Elders. So they must have been quite convincing in their 'professing to be part of the congregation'.

This type of action is understandable from a government or legal system that has no true spiritual guidance. They are physical thinking and only understand things of this world. But it would seem as if that is how it is supposed to be for scripture to be fulfilled. At least the man wasn't physically harmed or imprisoned, but he might find life a bit more difficult as it says being branded extremist, it might put some restrictions on work. I wonder how JWs all around the globe will hold up if these restrictions and laws spread earthwide.

Jehovah’s Witnesses go to court to block sex abuse report publication https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/01/jehovahs-witnesses-go-to-court-to-block-sex-abuse-report-publication/

What if you actually knew what an apostate was ? That would help you both. Not the GB / JW Org meaning of course , but the true meaning as below. apostate /əˈpɒsteɪt/ noun a person who renounces a religious or political belief or principle. "after fifty years as an apostate he returned to the faith" adjective abandoning a religious or political belief or principle. Apostasy is the formal disaffiliation from, abandonment of, or renunciation of a religion by a person. It can also be defined within the broader context of embracing an opinion that is contrary to one's previous religious beliefs. One who undertakes apostasy is known as an apostate. Tom tries so hard to pretend that Apostates do not love God or Christ. Why Tom ? Apostates of JW Org are just that. Apostates of JW Org....... It simply means that a person has left the JW Org and no longer wants to be one of them. It does not mean that a person does not want to believe in or love God and Christ. Unfortunately though Tom and Anna, you have both been duped into believing what your GB and writing dept' tell you. Tom says, " “What discourages me most,” I said, “is that apostates are taking public shots at the God and the community that I hold dear, " So do you think all those ex JWs are taking a shot at Almighty God ? Or are they just taking shots at the GB and JW Org ?

From the Watchtower Library link @Srecko Sostar provided above. “This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel: ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name to eternity, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation.” (Ex. 3:13-15) We, therefore, have the Creator’s own words for it that his name is Jehovah. Um, not exactly, because the name Jehovah would not have been used. YHWH does not translate to Jehovah. Whenever they came across the tetragrammaton, JHVH, they studiously substituted the Hebrew words Quite funny as when I studied with JWs I was told it was YHWH but this W/t link says JHVH. Um, which is actually right I wonder ? The Tetragrammaton is the four-letter Hebrew word יהוה, the name of the biblical God of Israel. The four letters, read from right to left, are yodh, he, waw and he. While there is no consensus about the structure and etymology of the name, "the form Yahweh is now accepted Jehovah (/dʒɪˈhoʊvə/) is a Latinization of the Hebrew יְהֹוָה, one vocalization of the Tetragrammaton יהוה (YHWH), the proper name of the God of Israel in the Hebrew Bible[1] and one of the seven names of God in Judaism. The consensus among scholars is that the historical vocalization of the Tetragrammaton at the time of the redaction of the Torah (6th century BCE) is most likely Yahweh. The historical vocalization was lost because in Second Temple Judaism, during the 3rd to 2nd centuries BCE, the pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton came to be avoided, being substituted with Adonai ("my Lord"). The Hebrew vowel points of Adonai were added to the Tetragrammaton by the Masoretes, and the resulting form was transliterated around the 12th century as Yehowah.[2] The derived forms Iehouah and Jehovah first appeared in the 16th century. "Jehovah" was popularized in the English-speaking world by William Tyndale and other pioneer English Protestant translations such as the Geneva Bible and the King James Version.[3] The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops states that in order to pronounce the Tetragrammaton "it is necessary to introduce vowels that alter the written and spoken forms of the name", resulting in "Yahweh" or "Jehovah".[4] It also remains in use by the Watchtower Society translators of the New World Translation, and appears in the still-popular translations of the American Standard Version (1901) and the Young's Literal Translation (1862, 1899), but it does not appear in current mainstream English translations, some of which use Yahweh but most continue to use "Lord" or "LORD" to represent same.[5 Food for thought. Would the true Anointed use Jehovah or Yahweh ?

Perhaps you and Tom are actually the same person. you are both quite ......., well I don't want to get banned so I'll just let it go........ But actually I don't think you are capable of a worthy answer, hence you never give one .

One quote I found. " If the meaning of baptism could be boiled down to one word, that word would be identification. Baptism speaks primarily of a personal, public identification with Jesus Christ. " Matthew 28 v 19 NWT "Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations,o baptizing themp in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, " J W baptism. Baptisms are usually held at assemblies and conventions of Jehovah’s Witnesses. At the conclusion of the baptism talk, the speaker will ask the baptism candidates to stand and answer the following two questions in a loud voice: 1. Have you repented of your sins, dedicated yourself to Jehovah, and accepted his way of salvation through Jesus Christ? 2. Do you understand that your baptism identifies you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with Jehovah’s organization? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ So where are the words in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, " ? And where in the Bible does it say that a person gets baptised into an 'Organisation' ? Should the JW Org use the words that Jesus instructed to be used ? Now a puzzling question. What actually is a JW Org baptism ? Sound like a stupid question ? Um. If a baptised JW leaves the Org or is disfellowshipped, they are then shunned. So are they still a Christian ? Does their baptism still count for anything ? In the first century it would have been anointed ones that did the baptising. A baptised one, would become a Christian serving God through Christ. There was no IBSA, and no JW Org. (Although some on here try to pretend that the 1st Century Christians were JWs) So who now has the right to baptise ? Should it be Anointed one's that baptise ? Therefore should it be made clear who are the Anointed ones ? I suppose it would be difficult to know who they are, and to have so few Anointed baptise so many earth wide. But, by what authority do the Elders baptise ? And is it a true baptism as it is 'into the Org' not as Jesus first directed ? Does anyone else have the right to baptise and would it be recognised as such by God and Christ ? Add to this that if a person is reinstated into JW Org and then, wow, everyone can talk to them again, their original baptism into JW Org is ok, and they don't need to do it again. How does any of that match up with God's written word ?

Oh how lovely it is to read @TrueTomHarley & @Arauna hype each other up so well. But of course they have to, as do all JWs, to hide the truth from themselves. Quote Tom "In the same way, the verse says: “Taste and see that Jehovah is good.” Some have tasted and seen that he is bad. It’s not something that does anyone any good to argue about. " No Tom, you are deliberately misleading people here. Some of us know that Almighty God is not only good, but Almighty. We know that God will put all things right. We know that Christ gave his life so that as many as would put faith in God and do good in God's eyes, woulds be saved. BUT, what we have tasted as BAD, is the GB / JW Org / W/t. Unfortunately JWs have been brainwashed into believing that 'only baptised JWs will be saved'. Hence, JWs cannot separate Almighty God from JW Org. I will start a new topic on Baptism in a moment. Now let's examine this quote from Tom, "So it is with the ‘sugar’ of the Bible’s message. This is what does it for Jehovah’s Witnesses—that unique combination of accurate Bible teachings along with the united brotherhood that comes with it—a unity and love unparalleled " 'Accurate Bible teachings', Tom says... Well in FACT we know that the JW Org was an offshoot from the IBSA. Brother Russell, whom the JW Org sometimes love and sometimes hates, stated that an organisation was not necessary. Bro Russell also stated many other things, most of which did not come true. There seems to be mixed 'truth' about Bro Rutherford, whether Russell said Rutherford should not run the IBSA, whether Rutherford was actually a break away (apostate) from that original 'religion' by forming the JWs. Then we fast forward to other predictions via the Org and we come to 1975, or at least the early 1970's, and more failed predictions. We also have the teaching that was part of the doctrine of the Org for many years, the 7,000 year creative days, but that doctrine has now been forsaken. You could add to this the blood issue, no blood, blood fractions, what next ? But Tom would say that is taking things tooo far. So 'Accurate teachings' Tom ? I think not. 'United brotherhood'. Need we even bother to think on this ? 'A unity and love unparalleled' ? You are kidding us Tom. Man made rules dictated by the GB down through the ranks to the Elders who rule over the congregations. Child Sexual Abuse, Earth wide in JW Org. Shunning earth wide in the JW Org. Dishonest disfellowshipping in the JW Org. Dishonest lawyers mistreating Victims in JW org. No love, no mercy, no compassion in the JW Org. 'Look after widows and orphans' does not even come up into the minds or hearts of your GB or the Elders. Your 'sugar' seems to be you getting hyped up on the hype from the meetings, and from the hype on here from Arauna. But sensible people know that sugar, whilst it tastes nice and can give hype, is not good for humans. Your meetings 'tickle your ears' and are your sugar. It seems you actually don't care if it is truth or not. This week's 'truth' might be next week's lies, but it is your sugar hype at the time.

And i think JWs make it pretty clear that they do not serve Almighty God. They serve the GB and JW Org. Quote @Colin Browne Jehovah doesn't want us to lay charges against our brothers. "Does any one of you who has a dispute with another dare to go to court before unrighteous men, and not before the holy ones? Or do you not know that the holy ones will judge the world?" (1Cor. 6:1,2) Unfortunately Colin, justice is not done within the JW Org and there is no love, so some congregants or ex-congregants have to go to Superior Authorities of the world that God himself puts in place or allows to be in place. If it were only five or ten cases then it could be seen possibly false or fake, but it is hundreds of cases Earth wide ( possibly thousands ), so surely it is thereby proven to have some true foundation. A couple of scriptures from the NWT. If only JWs including the GB would live by these things. Galations 6 v 2 and v 10 Go on carrying the burdens of one another,d and in this way you will fulfill the law of the Christ. So, then, as long as we have the opportunity,* let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to us in the faith Work good towards all. I honestly do not see that happening at all in the JW Org. Mr Harley i do not want your stupid opinion. You show yourself as totally self centred and only wanting attention.

Quote @TrueTomHarley You could desist, you know. It is inherently more noble to defend something than to attack it. Um, Pharisees to Jesus "You could desist, you know. It is inherently more noble to defend something than to attack it." Oh Tom, you and @Arauna are just so true to your GB & Co, and I expect you will remain that way. So be it. The blind leading the blind. Faults that are so clear to some of us seem hidden from you both. I'm hungry and it's nearly 7.30 pm here in UK. As it seems pointless conversing with you, i will go and eat. I may return later. Meanwhile have fun y'all

UM Does anyone see the difference between, being conned into doing restoration showy work on an old building, because you've been told it is for the 'glory of God' As opposed to, doing voluntary work, such as EMERGENCY WORK FOR A FIRE DEPT' OR HOSPITAL which actually serves a good purpose. It seems that Mr Harley doesn't know the difference. Mr Harley, the difference is, the one's that do the Emergency work actually volunteer to HELP OTHER PEOPLE. The congregants, that should have been preaching the Good News of God's Kingdom', because it is so urgent as the 'End' is so close (in JWs opinion), were actually misled into believing that the restoration work on that theatre was for God. In God's eyes and Christ's I would have thought the preaching work was much more important. One thought, Jesus knew that Jerusalem was about to be destroyed, 0 “However, when you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies,v then know that the desolating of her has drawn near.w 21 Then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains,x let those in the midst of her leave, and let those in the countryside not enter into her, .... " I don't see any instruction to go and build a big fancy assembly hall some place.

I don't pay rent either, nor council tax (money to UK government). I am quite 'no part of this world'.

New International Version Acts 17 v 23For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: to an unknown god. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship--and this is what I am going to proclaim to you. Call me John if it makes you happy.

And still old @TrueTomHarley twists things that he has no real answer for. Keep it up Tom, keep showing your disrespect for God. I didn't buy and don't own my house. It's just a place to live for now. And that theatre wasn't a 'fixer-upper' was it ? It was a show piece to show off to the world of mankind. Rebuilt by slave labour of congregants, because those congregants were fooled into believing that it was 'for God'. But it was for the GB to show off to the world of mankind. Obviously for the word of mankind, the devil's world, because no one with true love of God and Christ would consider it as being the right thing to do. Once again it could just be the American way. And the GB being mostly American and living the American way have got caught up in this showy display of life. Assembly Halls that I've visited here in UK do not look anything like that place. A / H here in UK are functional not showy. K/H that I've visited too are functional not showy. All of them are very neat and always tidy, but i remember helping with the vacuuming in some .

I don't own it, it isn't mine to give. I was never into real estate, being no part of this world.

https://gothamist.com/news/inside-the-lost-jehovahs-witnesses-tunnels-under-brooklyn-heights I thought this article was quite interesting and slightly funny too :- "It was a little creepy" in the tunnels, Gregory Hall, "I've heard of some real strange things that happened down there" in the tunnels, Hall said, without going into detail. He did recall seeing "chain-link cages that they had their offices in. It felt weird. It was not real comfortable." Since the tunnels were largely secluded, some elders reportedly saw them as an opportunity to corner members away from the rest of the community. Once, Hall said, an older JW man took him into the tunnels, then started talking to him about masturbation. (In a recently released video entitled "Pillowgate," two JW leaders are shown inveighing against masturbation; Hall said the Witnesses are infuriated about the video and are searching for a mole they believe leaked it.) [I thought] 'I don't even know you, I feel creepy down here, and you're bringing that up to me?'" Hall recalled. "When those doors closed down in those areas, I didn't feel comfortable. Some of those guys, they lose touch with reality." Read the whole article if you have time