Patiently waiting for Truth

So lets try to be a bit positive. A question. How is the GB and the JW Org moving forward SPIRITUALLY ? What progress has it made in the last fifty years ? I'm not talking about physical things, not buildings, not books, not meeting times........ I'm talking about purely spiritual matters. Spiritual guidance, true spiritual love from the top of the Org down, mercy, understanding of people, serving the congregants as a way of serving God Himself (as Jesus did), showing patience without having weakness, making true adjustments according to true scripture not according to man's guesses. You may of course comment as to what you feel would make for good spiritual progress within the JW Org too.

Quote @TrueTomHarley " No. You are preoccupied with this, and @4Jah2me lives and breathes it. But anyone else takes into account that there is no sizable organization on earth where CSA is not an issue, and no one that is not being sued—and in most cases, it is the leaders who are the abusers, something very rare with JWs, whose leaders are just accused of not reporting. " Lets break this down. Firstly Mr Harley (just like Aurana) likes to compare everything to the 'world'. We all well know that the 'world' belongs to Satan the devil. So in effect Mr Harley likes to compare the GB and it's JW Org to Satan the devil. Wow, great comparison. Secondly. Mr Harley has no idea whatsoever, just how many JW 'leaders' are involved in CSA. The proving point will come WHEN the Paedophile Database of 20 years + is 'opened up'. Whilst the GB and it's lawyers keep that 'can of worms' closed, then there is no way of knowing. I am of the opinion that Almighty God wants His name (or the name JWs use) made clean. Therefore all efforts by the GB and their lawyers will eventually fail. That 'can of worms' will be opened up, for all the earth to see. Then and only then, can Mr Harley truly decide, with full facts, exactly what percentage of JW Leaders are guilty of Child Sexual Abuse. It would also be interesting to know exactly whom Mr Harley is speaking of when he uses the term 'leaders' when applied to the JW org. For me it is from the GB right down to Ministerial Servants. But I hasten to add that I do not know all the ranks and titles and I think titles change on a yearly basis. I think @Srecko Sostar has already covered these above points but i needed to add my concerns. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Separate comment Quote @James Thomas Rook Jr. What if in many cases of the Bible, particularly in Genesis .... what we have translated as year or years ... should have been translated as EPOCH(S)? What excuse did the Society / JW Org come up with to suddenly wipe out the 7,000 year creative day theory ? And if NO ONE IN INSPIRED OF HOLY SPIRIT , then anything could be true or false. To the point that the 'All Scripture is inspired of God.. ' scripture, may only refer to the Hebrew writings, as it was written before the Greek writings were completed and certainly before the Greek writings were gathered together to form one 'book'. Hence we truly need a TRUE Anointed Class to be able to receive God's Holy Spirit to give us true 'Food at the proper time'

They won't have finished all the JW CSA court cases by then and victims would lose out. No, it will take years to try to repair the damage to the JW Org. And if only baptised JWs will get saved then the Org will have to be squeaky clean. Dream on.......

@Arauna you must really have OCD about sex. Quote " The signs read: "love does not shun". True, the liove of this world with its "practices" of fornication, LGBT does not shun. " The sign is about emotional family love, nothing to do with immorality. Reminds me of those on here taking about 'tight pants tony'... You JW's seem to have relate everything to sex or to this rotten world that belongs to the devil.

Quote @TrueTomHarley “Okay, let us accept as a given that the Witness organization is full of BS. " Please explain in simple terms what exactly BS means. Quote "see how 4Jah2Me complains that he cannot get his questions answered " Does that make me an opposer, just asking questions ? Quote "I will not patiently stay and “debate” those who oppose, because the organization prefers that we not... " My Harley, you are so brainwashed by the Org that you do not know an opposer from someone who gives facts about the GB and the JW Org. As an example, which as been used many times, the GB said it was opposers / apostates that had made up stories about CSA. And when anyone gives genuine details about faults in the GB and it's Org, the one giving the details (whistleblower) is called an opposer / apostate. So it gives you and the rest of the JW org an excuse not to talk to such ones. However if you do not debate then it is you that is losing out.

On topic. I have honestly known JW's that will not have a proper cooked dinned on Christmas day, as it looks like a Christmas dinner. 'For fear of stumbling others'. They just have a salad or soup or some other small meal. I remember when working with some brothers years ago (they were builders) and i took a box of mince pies for lunch. Not one of those brothers would eat a mince pie It was soooooooooo funny. When i think of what wicked things go on in the JW org, and then some JW's worry about christmas day dinner and mince pies. Where is the common sense ? Where is the sense of balance ?

Today is Friday. I haven't looked on here since Wednesday. There must be around 8 new pages. BUT it's full of rubbish ! People being personal about each other. My Harley being as stupid as usual. Mr Rook and Dilbert. Alan F filling up pages for the sake of it. Well, I'm glad I've spent my time doing more sensible things. Materialistic things, but sensible. When's Armageddon My Harley ? Ten years time I reckon. And @The Librarian I do feel sorry for you. Don't let the ba.. (no, i can't say that on here) Don't let people upset you. Maybe some topics should have a cut off point at 30 pages. (Just a suggestion).

My comment you quoted was only to show @Arauna how over generalised her comments are.

Quote @JW Insider " we really have nothing to lose and much to gain if our faith puts us on God's side. " Oh dear, deep breath. Surely this is ONE OF the MAIN points of all this forum. From your comment :- IF OUR FAITH PUTS US ON GOD'S SIDE. The whole point is, Does it put you on God's side ? Or, does it just put you on the side of the GB and JW Org ? For there is a very big difference.

I will admit I haven't yet read the Jan 2020 Wt but wanted to comment on this :- Quote "There is no difference between them as regards their anointing, and how they should be treated. " So if the GB can gather together then so can other Anointed. But not according to the GB 'rules'. Quote " but in my opinion the GB do not receive any more, or any "special" type of holy spirit or insight than any other anointed,..." So what gives them the right to call themselves the F&DS ? What puts them at the top of the tree ? And What stops them being removed from office ? Quote " The Bible does not say the FDS anointed know more, all it says is that they are to provide timely spiritual food, " You seem to be twisting things here. There are no F&DS anointed made known in the Bible. They have just called themselves as such. There is no proof of any appointment by God or Christ. Quote " all it says is that they are to provide timely spiritual food, .." BUT THEY HAVEN'T. They have supplied LIES. They have also made 'man made rules', burdens for congregants to carry. Heavy loads as mentioned in God's word. They make threats. One such being that a person HAS TO BE a Baptised JW to survive Armageddon. And they add to that, that Armageddon is 'just around the corner', so close now etc. I'm sure if you were realistic you could understand that as a threat. It is not a warning, because they have no proof of either.. Quote " Also they are not the only spokesmen for God. Anyone speaking the truth about God and Christ are also his spokespersons. " So one doesn't need to be a JW to be a spokesperson for God then? And the GB and it's Org cannot be spokespersons for God, if they DO NOT speak TRUTH. So we could go back over all the lies / mistakes / false predictions from the Bible Students and JWs, and we could say that they were never spokespersons for God. Quote @Arauna Those without conscience will also murder if they can get away with it and many other immoral things if society let's them get away with it too!...... So because society allowed JW Elders to get away with it Earthwide, they committed Child Sexual Abuse and kept it hidden in the ORG. And the GB, because society allows them to get away with it, are holding back a twenty year database of Paedophile accusations.

I can see the likeness

Quote "Their time for ruling and being together is not now " Says who ? ( @Arauna we can all play your silly game) Your GB are ruling right now, 8 mainly American men, with American thoughts and personalities. Whereas God through Christ has anointed people from ALL the Earth. But your GB domineer them. Will God and Christ allow that to continue ? I think not. Why anoint them if they are not allowed to make full use of it ? Why not just chose faithful people from amongst the dead. Can you imagine the disciples receiving Holy Spirit then being told to go home and keep quiet about it. Being told not to teach others. Being told not to gather together.

I don't think anyone is saying that disfellowshipping or shunning is totally wrong. I think the argument / debate, is about when those things should be used. I also think it has been proved that JW Elders have disfellowshipped people for unjust reasons. And that people are shunned for unjust reasons. As you will know scriptures can be misused by anyone. So I think what some of us here are looking for is justice, mercy and love. I'm sure there must have been many times that Jesus could have turned some of his disciples away, but Jesus showed love and patience and mercy. I quite often think about Matthew 12 v 9 through 12. ...' so it is lawful to do a fine thing on the Sabbath'.

A couple of points here :- 1. In times past the whole of the anointed here on earth were classed as the F&DS Then the GB in their selfish 'wisdom' decided that ONLY THEY are the F&DS. So who is exalting themselves above others here? Who is separating themselves from the Body of Christ ? Who are the ones that are trying to domineer ? 2. For the Anointed to contact each other does not mean literally gathering in one place. Or do you live so much in the past. We have internet, we have mobile / cell phones. Even prior to this we had fax machines and landline phones. So using the excuse that the Anointed would have to gather in one place is rather pathetic. I do honestly hope that members of the Anointed DO CONTACT EACH OTHER. Those of the Anointed will have more spirituality and guidance from God. Otherwise why would God even have an Anointed here on Earth. God could just as easily use Christ to chose a person after they have died, and then resurrect them in the spirit. Why would God anoint someone and then tell them (through the GB) to be inactive as an Anointed ? Of course you GB worshippers don't like the scripture of 'Ten men clinging to the skirt of a Jew' because you know the Jew represents the whole of the Anointed. The Org needs Anointed people from around the Earth, to be the leaders of the Organisation. They need not be permanently in one location together. Internet is quite fast you know . But the GB would lose their power to dominate 8.5 million people, and to also dominate and lie to another possible 8 million so called Bible studies.

So wow, you found one person to fit your purpose, congratulations. If ex JW's can prove how wrong the GB and JW Org are, then they are serving God's purpose to either clean up that Org or to get rid of it, so that God through Christ can use it or replace it with true worshippers. If your GB tell Anointed brothers and sisters not to contact each other, then that is obviously wrong, as those brothers and sisters are of the same BODY OF CHRIST. Did God use the Romans to destroy Jerusalem ? Or did God just remove His protection from Jerusalem ? Is God using ex JW's or just allowing them to do HIS work ?

I'm opposed to CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE. Is that dumb ? I'm opposed to religions telling LIES. Is that dumb ? I'm opposed to a Governing Body that give themselves that name so that they can Govern instead of Serve. Now you will probs think that is dumb too.

Mr Harley it looks like you are laying a road not writing a comment and IMO it is to hide half of what you have actually written, because you know yourself it is complete tosh. So you have made it difficult for anyone to comment on it by writing for five miles long. However, quote . ' It used to be announced from time to time that “so and so has been disfellowshipped.” For several years now—what is it? maybe 10? it is “so and so is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.” It gets the job done, and it avoids the problem of being attacked over the fact that “disfellowship” is not a word that appears in the Bible.. ' Oh dear, how sad you are. Was it ever announced that 'so and so has left the JW's ? Because the obvious reason for this 'newish' way of telling it, is purely to hide the FACT that many JW's are actually LEAVING the JW Org. The GB wishes to hide the numbers of those disassociating themselves from JW Org. Add to this that may Victims of CSA have said they were d'fed for either complaining to the Elders or to outside authorities. So now the GB can, through it's 'police dept' (elders), d'fed someone who has suffered CSA but does not have enough proof, but that still complains to the elders. The elders can still threaten d'fed action with or without the new 'rule book'. Quote " They think of “treat him as a tax collector and man of the nations,” that Jews had “no dealings” with. " Are but we are not Jews, we are NOT under Mosaic Law. JESUS would eat meals in the homes of Tax Collectors. Wasn't Matthew a Tax Collector ? And the disciples / apostles went out to the people of the nations to gather them to God. Quote " They think of “not even eating with such a man, " BUT you have forgotten the whole scripture here. New International VersionBut now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people. So tell me o worshipper of the GB, what is the case if a person leaves the JW Org, and no longer calls himself / herself a brother or sister ? That scripture cannot applyote " Quote " it is indisputably the Bible that directs congregation members. It is the Bible that tells them what to do, " You are having a laugh Mr Harley. Congregants know who are pulling the strings, but congregants love being puppets. It means they do not have to think or have a conscience. If they go wrong they can blame the Org for it's misdirection. They, like you, worship the GB. Quote "The only “sin” that the “corporation” has committed is educating members as to what the Bible says on all aspects of life. " Oh if only it was the only sin. You are so blinkered. GB / Org sins include, CSA, disfellowshipping for false reasons, Telling the Anointed not to contact each other, pretending to be the F&DS, telling lies to congregants and to the world by false teachings, Telling lies in Courts and probably many more. But i won't be so selfish as to take up as much space as you did My Harley.............

Who cares about worldly views. JW's are supposed to be NO PART OF THIS WORLD. Why would you need to compare worldly views then ? Oh yes, just to make an excuse for the GB and it's Org.

It's quite funny in KH's Watchtower studies. People answer like puppets. No one is allowed to ask any questions, just answer from the paragraph. And even funnier when parents tell answers to young children. It's so obvious that the children don't know what they are talking about, but parents try to make the kids look knowledgeable.. You think the GB would dare to let real people ask questions ? I think not. It would all be pre-planned script.

Yes how wonderful JW's are when a D'fed person walks into the KH. Everyone stares at the D'fed. 'Oh look a D'fed, lets not talk to them, not encourage them to be here, but just look down on them'. Wow, and Jesus said Love was most important. When Jesus was on the cross/stake, he said, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"... But JW's are not even allowed to talk to a D'fed person, not even in the KH. BUT, when it's announced from the platform that the Elders have reinstated the D'fed, then wow, magic, the barrier is lifted, JW's can go and hug the D'fed. Hypocrisy and rules of men at it's greatest.

And again totally off topic.

Persecuted Jesus to the point of death. And, some would say, the GB persecute the Anointed by saying that the rest of the Anointed are not the F&DS and by telling them not to contact each other, even though they are ONE BODY with Christ as head..

I presume @admin has given up on keeping things on topic

Quote " But we don't IGNORE most forms of bad conduct. The elders are to watch over the flock, and give good counsel when they learn of bad forms of conduct. " @JW Insider But WE don't ignore ... Is JW Insider actually admitting to be an Elder here ? And @The Librarian whom Mr Harley refers to as 'she' and 'the old hen', has actually admitted to being a Man, I believe. So probably another Elder. One more point though. Some of you guys tell stories of working with members of the GB and in the Writing Dept etc... . So you are not just ordinary 'run of the mill' JW's. A person doesn't go from being a 'member of a congregation' to being assistant to the GB. And it had me thinking that if you've worked at the HQ in America, then maybe some of you know each other personally way before ever joining this forum. Some of you, if you are to be believed, have such deep information that could only come from first hand experience at HQ Bethel USA, so I would presume some of you that defend the GB and the Org, know far more than you will ever make known on here.

I'd love them to knock my door. I haven't been to a meeting for a long while and would love to ask them what new things they have learnt. I've asked on here but there doesn't seem to be any important news.