Patiently waiting for Truth

You and Mr Harley are quite often good for a laugh, and we all need a laugh at times.

It would appear that Mr Harley and JW Insider (I think) have a personal need to say that I am John Butler. Please remember that John Butler and I are from the UK, so probably have things in common. I followed his comments therefore with interest. I can tell you one thing. If John Butler was disfellowshipped from this forum, it was for, frightening the Elders that run this forum. Mr Harley would rant that the GB were almost indestructable and could not be removed. John Butler would say that if God wanted the GB gone, they would be gone. There followed a dispute between someone known as Billy the Kid, whom told John Butler that he was basically cursed and had sold himself to the devil, and had no hope of a resurrection etc. I think there was some sort of threat from this Billy the Kid, about sending John Butler's details to the FBI, or some such. Anyhow it seems that John Butler had suggested that the GB should be removed, and that was seen as a threat to the GB. Hence it would seem that the elders of this forum removed John Butler, as he was never heard of on here again. So, Mr Harley and JW Insider, if you need to think I am John Butler, then to you I am John Butler For those with more sense if you think I am not John Butler, then I am not. Your GB would call that Spiritual Warfare.

No, it's using the 'err' word as an excuse to tell lies. And I do wish I could find the quote whereby it seems that the GB say its ok to tell lies as it's 'Spiritual Warfare'. @JW Insider will probs tell me I've got that quote wrong as well. Quote @JW Insider " I agree that there should be a way to provide constructive criticism that isn't immediately seen as a kind of "running ahead" of the organization. " Surely the whole point is, that the Bible Students, GB, Watchtower, JW Org, have been RUNNING AHEAD of CHRIST or GOD ? Otherwise would not at least some of their 'predictions' have come true. @TrueTomHarley Quote ".. that were like when you miss the nail with the hammer, and in frustration, swing several times more, again missing each time. " Wow now that shows spiritual guidance, doesn't it ?

It would appear, as I've probably mentioned before, that Mr Harley, once found out to have made a devious wrong move, tries so hard to turn it into a joke. He's such a self centred man. He even seems to admit that he doesn't read comments properly.

@Arauna But your quote, which I highlighted in red, proves that the earlier, Bible Students / Russell, were not guided by Almighty God's holy spirit, AND also proves that your GB / JW Org are not guided by Almighty God's holy spirit. As for sports clubs / organisations closing down due to heavy fines or loss of membership, due to CSA within them. I don't care. I am no part of this world, so why would I care ? Quote "But as usual - the press will only single us out even though the injustice was not "planned" or tolerated." You know that isn't true. The ARC wasn't set up to deal with JW CSA was it ? Earthwide governments / official bodies etc are being set up to look into most religions, and all other places where children are possibly being abused. It is not just the JW Org. JW Org is singled out on here for the obvious reason that this is a JW org forum. Quote "There is nothing wrong with not having the full picture or making a mistake " BUT, it would be so nice, so honest in fact, IF the GB would say that they DON'T KNOW' rather that 'making a mistake' / telling lies.. Sometimes, when my children would ask me a question, I would have to answer that I didn't know. My children looked to me for answers. Some questions I could not answer. But I had the honesty to tell them 'I don't know'. Now if the GB were only humble enough to say 'I don't know' when they were asked some important questions. If the GB and their Writing Dept' were only honest enough not to make up things when they 'do not know'. The GB make themselves as bait for criticism due to 'mistakes' and dishonesty. One last quote here " We cannot remain in the truth without his spirit. " The Watchtower / JW org has misused this word 'Truth' as a gimmick, a trick, a sly misguiding. Because truth actually means truth. And TRUTH is in God's written word which never changes. But the 'beliefs / teachings' of the GB and it's Org constantly change.

Which reminds me of JW 'parties' here in the UK. I know of such parties where Elders dress up in costumes. One such Elder who's name is Andy, dresses up as Andy Pandy. Others dress us as the Incredible Hulk, Batman etc. No part of the world of course I do wonder what Jesus thinks as he looks down on them.

@Arauna Quote " My friend, this is only a wish these days - justice is becoming a thing for the rich only who can afford good lawyers and get off. " Not so with JW Child Sexual Abuse Victims. Some of them are not rich but they are getting justice at last. In many countries earthwide CSA victims from many 'walks of life' are getting some justice. Not just in JW Org of course, but it's good to see justice for all victims.

@Arauna Quote "Things are moving ...... not exactly in timing as mommy WT organization predicted BUT as the bible predicted." EXACTLY. The Bible is never wrong. Watchtower and GB and JW Org are OFTEN WRONG. Arauna, you are so helpful to us some times. When you actually admit that the W/t GB and JW Org are wrong. But go careful, because you could be accused of being Apostate by actually admitting your Org / W/t gets it wrong. After all that is why some of us are accused of being Apostate isn't it ? Because we believe God, working through Christ, as ruler, rather than men.

@Arauna I agree with you here, but the problem arises when, on thinking of spiritual things and reading the scriptures privately, we then find ourselves in disagreement with the teachings of the the GB / JW Org. I have always been encouraged to pray for guidance of holy spirit and read the scriptures. But I do find that on reasoning on the scriptures, I have been troubled by the way the GB / JW Org have dealt with and are dealing with things.

I'm stunned. We have some sort of agreement here. But some of those 'core' teachings I knew when i was around ten years old and had never heard of JW's. We used to have a man in a van drive around our council estate. He was from Scripture Union. I would have discussions with him for many hours over the months. I knew Jesus was not God. I knew the Trinity was rubbish. I knew there was a hope for the future of a paradise earth. I don't know how I knew those things.

Yes true. But Mr Harley has made it clear over the years why he is here, and it isn't to impart info' but to use other people's info for his profit. Arauna, well she probs' just as OCD

@TrueTomHarley I'm sorry to have to say this to you, but it appears to me that you and @Arauna are very selfish and actually offer nothing of use to any of the topics. Arauna very often talks about herself just as you talk about yourself. She will say 'I am not impressed' 'I do not fall for your bait.' She and you seem to be full of your own self importance. IMO you both waste space here.

That all seems a complete waste of space here on this forum. What are you actually writing about.

@TrueTomHarley Well you are always good for a laugh Mr Harley. Quote "When speaking with others of a different point of view, it is important to treat them with a modicum of respect. It is important not to taunt and ridicule and insult. " Well that was such a great joke. Because you then go into taunt, ridicule and insult as many folks as you can. I've found most of your comments to be useless hot air, or just references to your 'books'. And you need to link me to being a disciple of someone else ? Earlier you actually accused me of being someone else. Are you so insecure as to need to do these things ? Can you not just accept me as being ME ? On the other hand you accept your GB even with all their faults, and you don't seem to complain about them. You see how that looks like GB worshipping ? Oh yes your idea of " elevating self to godhood,", fits your GB well. And you burble on about my point of 'Armageddon being ten years away', and you seem to say this 'world' will not survive that long as it is. Well, my faith in God through Christ, tells me that it will take as long as it takes, and God/Christ can keep this 'world' ticking over for another 50 years if they wanted to. Do you not have such faith? Spot the contradiction here :- Quote "In that time, God will be able to raise up a pure anointed who represents him without flaw. I say, “Go for it!” Maybe you can start it up in your basement ... " Can you see the big difference ? 'God will be able to' as apposed to 'Maybe you can start it up' Mr Harley, I do not pretend to be God. I leave that stuff to your GB. God can do millions of things that I cannot do. Mr Harley has the same mindset / way of deception, as the GB and the Writing Dept. And if you cannot see my reasoning about the use of “make mistakes” and “errs, then it is because you are deliberately blind to it. Have a good day.

I suspect you don't like education. Is that the best you can do ? Walk on

Probs' because I'm British and don't understand American humour

@Arauna I wish you would bet, as I think you would owe me money Of course I have some idea of what goes on in the world. But it is the Devil's world, so should we expect anything different. In some ways it is encouraging to see the immorality in that 'world'. It is only proving God's word as correct. Critical times hard to deal with. Having no natural affection. Giving themselves over to lust and homosexuality. It shows the need for God through Christ to intervene.. I only used the OCD as you love to use it so much when talking of others. http://socialstudiesproject.org/

But you are allowed to use fractions of human blood that other people have donated . I thought blood was sort of sacred and belonged to GOD. If so then I would have thought NO ONE has the right to rip it into pieces. So in line with that thought I would think no JW would want to 'steal' blood fractions that actually belong to God. However it is possible that the scriptures actually meant not to literally drink blood, as it was the custom at that time.

Someone else, maybe @Witness (forgive me if I'm wrong) mentioned that the GB were putting themselves in the place of Jesus Christ. I think the idea was dismissed. However @AlanF comment here :- claiming to exercise the rights and prerogatives of Christ as his empowered representatives. >> This is fantastic. It proves the point beyond doubt. I don't link on to anyone, just individual comments. And that comment makes a lot of sense to me.

@JW Insider Thank you for this comical comment above. A few quotes "Witnesses are generally very comfortable with their leadership." Exactly how many people have you asked. Were they just elders that you asked ? Quote "Also, among JWs, there is a great appreciation for the good that comes out of association with others of like faith in the brotherhood. " Yes it is a social club. Well here in UK it definitely is a social club. Hence when a person is disfellowshipped they lose EVERYONE they would normally spend time with. Also hence, that is what keeps many JW's 'physically in', because of the fear of being totally alone if they left. Shunning keeps people in the JW Org, that is the way the GB / Org rules people's lives. So, no, many JW's are not 'very comfortable with their leadership', but they just don't have a good way out, without being totally 'cut off'. And judging by feedback I'm getting from within the Org, fornication and divorce is increasing here in the UK. But I will not enlarge on that due to where I get my information. The word Apostasy can be argued here for hours, and in fact often is. And the GB seem frighten to announce reasons from the platform for why a person is 'No longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses'. So no one knows if a person left of their own accord, or was d'fed. As for this 'because no one has offered a consistent acceptable replacement yet.' It is laughable. Just because you don't know exactly what is right, does that mean you don't know what isn't right ? And doesn't it tell you to wait on God through Christ, instead of burbling on with untrue information ? Quote " Of course, the Bible already gives us a guide that shows there are also very serious kinds of apostasy, " Give us examples please. And might your own GB be guilty of some of these ?

Another person that speaks twaddle ? lots of words that mean nothing / more smoke screen. @TrueTomHarley With all that I've been reading about 'those in power' in the Org from 1970 ish onward, it goes to prove without doubt that they were not inspired, nor were they even guided by Holy Spirit. Why do you people always have to relate everything to worldly things ? If I compared my house to a third world tin slum, then my home is almost perfect. But if i compare my home to one of those houses the JW Org is selling in London for over one million pounds, then my home isn't so cool. That is why you people love to compare your GB and it's Org to the world, so that your GB and it's Org always looks better. If you were brave enough to compare your GB and it's Org to GOD'S HIGH STANDARDS, then you see the many dangerous faults. And as for your scripture misquote “To whom else shall we go? I don't remember reading in God's word, that the answer was, Go to the JW Org. You see how you twist scripture to suit your own means ? Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life, The scripture is concerning JESUS CHRIST, NOT JW ORG. Quote "In this case, the “no Santa Claus” is learning that the GB is made up of men who can make mistakes." I think the Watchtower words were ' make mistakes and err' So in your eyes does that mean make mistakes and make mistakes (which makes no sense) Or, does it mean make mistakes and deliberately do wrong ? Please don't have the wrong kind of 'love' for your GB, that it becomes worship. Because if you do you will be too forgiving, and in so doing you will not 'search all things to see if they are true'. On this forum, we have seen this critique a few times. It was clearly claimed by @JOHN BUTLER, who sadly was "DF'd" from the forum. I just have to pick up on this point. Firstly it's good to know what happened to him. So the question is why ? And secondly @Anna and others, that @JW Insider directly says disfellowshipped, even if he uses the 'safe mode' of inverted commas. This, in my opinion, upholds my belief that this forum is run by Elders.

@TrueTomHarley That is the longest bit of self righteous advertising i have ever read on here. In fact it was so boring that i skipped lots. And once again a SMOKE SCREEN to get away for the REAL topic. So no one in the JW Org is appointed by Holy Spirit. No one in the JW Org is Inspired of Holy Spirit. Wow, that seems to say that the JW Org, and it's GB, have no Holy Spirit between all of them. And the proof is coming out in the court rooms every day

@Arauna I have to say very bluntly that you talk rubbish. Always going on ( OCD ) about the Devil's world. I think your understanding of English English (as opposed to American English) is very poor. Not the understanding of the words but the understanding of the meaning of what I write. I will give you the benefit of the doubt, that you do not understand me, otherwise it is that you deliberately misquote me. Oh @JW Insider what twaddle. Changing man made things / Traditions of men. That is not 'New Light' That is not God supplying Holy Spirit to reveal important things. That is not a F&DS supply 'food at the proper time'. It is showing that so many mistakes were made in the past, that it could not have had God's / Christ's guidance. Quote , We got back to the higher powers (superior authorities) being secular in the very early 60's. ....... But this was an ORIGINAL TEACHING of the Bible Students. Those in power changed it for their own purpose, and it would have caused many deaths or great suffering in WW2 I would presume. Quote Made smoking a DF offense, which has probably improved the health of thousands. But it was known in the late 1800's by the Bible Students that Smoking was wrong. However, to keep people in the Org, it was allowed until the numbers grew. I'm sure it was mentioned in the purple book. Is it the Kingdom book. Just as Christmas was allowed for years, until 1926 ?, even in Bethel ( I wish I had a better memory) . Quote. "We dropped the District Overseer. We reduced the quotas for various pioneer titles. We replaced the separate meeting for the "book study" to be replaced with personal/family study and more focus on field service." Traditions of men. or Man made ideas. NOTHING to do with serving God properly. Not NEW Important teachings. And then you go on about dates/ years, when the scriptures simply tell us we will not know the day or the hour. Those dates are once again Man made teachings, and God tells us 'Put not your trust in earthling man'. Proof positive with all the changes made. Quote "We now tell parents and guardians that they are free to inform authorities about child sexual abuse without concern for anyone's reputation. We now include elders informing authorities as part of the process wherever it is the law to do so. " The GB / Org has been forced to do this due to so many court cases . BUT You must be saying then that the GB / ORG told people they WERE NOT FREE TO REPORT BEFORE. Quote "I see nothing wrong with thinking of the GB as anointed " If the GB were anointed, would they seriously tell others of the anointed that the others are not the F&DS ? Just those 8 men Would an anointed GB tell others of the anointed, not to contact each other or to study God's word together ? Are they not ALL the BODY OF CHRIST ? Should they all not be united as one ? 10.30 pm UK time. Enough for now.

Sorry, I take the accusation back

" since American lawmakers are in bed with all of the larger religions " Well I've been wondering why America has been so slow in any form of action against JW Org. Australian investigation done and dusted, documents handed over etc... . UK Charity commission, documents handed over, done and dusted. Awaiting new investigation by I.I.C.S.A. USA, nothing. Only what seems to be private individuals taking the Org to court. why no big FBI or other investigation ? @Anna " I don't believe in upsetting the elderly " you do it to me