Patiently waiting for Truth

@JW Insider No disrespect but you didn't actually answer my questions, unless I'm a bit blind Quote "The need to step down as an elder if your kids go to college is not enforced consistently,.." NEED to step down, seems to show a dictated instruction. In my opinion it is a Man Made rule, not a direction from God. I would lump it into the 'traditions of men' category. What do you think on that ? Also I asked how old your 'child' was when they went to a college a long way away. Surely if they are of a certain age to make their own decisions then it was out of your hands. And why should the newspapers get knowledge of it ? The latter half of you last paragraph made me laugh. Quote " I have a lot of difficulty navigating platform assignments that promote .... " etc, Um, a tactful way of saying 'I don't believe half of what the GB say but I'll stick with it anyway' And the, Quote "on which we might well be right .." Fact is it's not WE that might well be right, it's following the GB's interpretations. There is no WE. There is only THEM ( at the top) and congregants (at the bottom) . And the congregants go out and preach exactly what they are told to preach (Workbook). Smiley faces as I'm trying not to be too serious about all this. No offence meant on any of it.

So the rules of men stopped you serving God as much, in what you would describe as a good capacity (Elder). How old was your youngest when they chose to go to that college / uni ? I would ask again. Where did the GB's Lawyers get their qualifications from ? Where did the planners / designers of the 'new' HQ get their qualifications from ? But no, GB = dictatorship.

If blood is soooo sacred in the eyes of the GB / Org, they why do the GB 'allow' JW's to accept fractions of HUMAN BLOOD ? I would have thought the mere 'messing about' with / disecting of, human blood would be seen as wrong. That blood has been removed from someone's body. Shouldn't all blood removed be 'pored out on the ground' ? On this subject, can someone tell me exactly how many different types of blood fractions JW's are 'allowed' to use ? I have tried to research it but it get confusing to me. On a wider scale of things though,it definitely shows that the GB are the GOVERNING BODY, dictating rules of men,doesn't it ? Didn't Jesus say how wrong that was ? Lording it over the congregation. God is going to judge us through Christ, so do we really need to be dictated to by men ? Are we not allowed to have a conscience ? Guidelines, yes, but man made rules dictated to servants of God, no. Especially as failures of those in charge are easily seen. It seems like some here want to go back to the lie told about the 'Superior Authorities' just to gain more power over the earth wide congregation..

Yes I've noticed that some JW's dig themselves into big holes with their words. They think they are defending the GB and it's Org but they make it quite clear of the faults in both. Don't they actually think about what they are writing

@Anna Sorry but i think you are being naive on this point or deliberately not wanting to see the truth of it. I have to agree with @Witness (above post) on this issue, on two points. 1. If it is offered as spiritual food from 'Jehovah's table' then it should be fact not speculation. 2. If a person makes mention of disagreeing with the GB / Org's 'teachings' they can be disfellowshipped for 'causing a division in the congregation'... A question though. If "It's not as if "the Generation" is a fundamental teaching required for salvation is it? " Then, if they have no 'proof' of their claim, why can't they just say "We don't know" Why do the GB / Writing Dept' et al have to pretend that they know more than they actually do know ? It only shows people that those at the top are 'running ahead' and not waiting on Jehovah / Jesus Christ for true guidance.

Who is he and what do we have in common ?

If you have a 'household' of 4 people that are all non JW's then you have communication and friendship amongst you. There are probably two things that keep people in the Org. 1. It is like a social club where people spend time together when not in 'service' or meetings. They go shopping, have parties, visit each other, hence they are UPBUILT, not by the false spiritual food from the GB / elders, but by the day to day activities of a kind of friendship with other JW's. 2. The fear of losing everyone that they had associated with, thereby having no contacts / friends, and possibly family. Also as has been mentioned in another topic, the fear of loss of business when one does lots of business with brothers and sisters. I think some call it, physically in / mentally out or spiritually out. So just using the 'contacts' inside, not using the fake spiritual blurb...

I wonder what 'trade school' the GB's lawyers went to

4 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right. Maybe it is that God is not partial but gives everyone a change to serve Him. If a person is in the military because they think it is right to be there then they are maybe not sinning in God's eyes. But once they find out that war is wrong, and that killing people is wrong, then God will expect them to change their ways. Look at those words from Peter. God accepts those that fear Him and 'does what is right'. That means 'Does what is right in God's viewpoint, not man's. We all know how wrong war is, how wrong man's inhumanity to man is. The Nation of Israel had a totally different purpose, that of bringing Jesus Christ onto this Earth, so God made them or allowed them to go to war, to keep their nation as clean and safe as possible. God's way is different now, it's to show love to as many as we can and be peaceable with all where possible. We know that God is not partial, so it would be wrong for us to be.

@Anna Yes of course Christianity is right, but that does not follow that JW Org is right. Please see my new topic on this. @Tom Henry Was taking about mansions and I'd seen this about JW Org selling mansions, so I thought I would link it in. If they are selling private and business properties her in UK ,i do wonder what they are selling in USA. I also wonder where they are getting the money to restore these properties and where the profit goes. It also seems to me to be part of the world that they do not need to be involved in, but that's just my viewpoint. I wonder who lives in such properties before they are sold. I can't imagine the Org leaving those houses empty whilst they are on the market for over one million pounds each. Contacted London Bethel 'HQ' once only. Totally unChristian response, I will never contact them again.

Point 1. I really do laugh at this term "Only game in town" As I've said before the JEWISH RELIGIOUS LEADERS would have said that serving God by obeying THEM and the Mosaic Law, was the only game in town. Jesus however proved those Religious leaders to be wrong. Jesus and his disciples carried over the good points of the Mosaic Law and discarded the bits no longer needed. (Such as animal sacrifices, circumcision etc). Russell & Co came out of former religions. I presume they must have carried over some good points from those former religions, then made adjustments or changed doctrines. So why would it not be possible for people that have left the JW Org to form a new religion ? Carrying over the good and disposing of the bad, of which there seems to be plenty.... I'm not saying it will happen but it does dispose of this idea of 'the only game in town' brainwashing. JW's seem to be taught that there cannot be anything else ever. What if Russell had believed that, the Bible Students would have never been formed. Point 2. The 'Truth' / JW Org. As I read more and more on here I am finding out that the Governing Body / Writing Dept' / Legal Dept' et al, have deliberately told many lies. The latest I'm reading (on a new topic on here) but the info stems back a while, seems to contain information whereby the 'Org' / those in charge at the time, implied, that children cannot get baptised, and that blood transfusions were acceptable to the Organisation. It seems that this was written in order to get favours from a certain government. Both of those things are lies but seem to be deliberately used for some form of dishonest gain. Then of course we have lawyers telling lies in court about shunning. And C.S.A court cases have proved that elders and others have deliberately lied. And the American 'section' of the JW Org deliberately withholding information regarding such matters. Link this to misuse of scriptures, such as, Superior Authorities, which deliberately took away people's conscience / freedom of choice, in WW2. And I'm sure people here can come up with lots more examples of lies, deliberate wrongdoing, mistakes, misinterpretations, 'new light' corrections et al. Why am i writing all this ? Well I am proving two points. 1. If it's your 'only game in town' then it's not a good one. 2. That calling it 'The Truth' is totally deceptive. I do not think you would like it if I gave you a meal that was three quarters yummy, but a quarter poison. The poison might well contaminate the good food ! So, saying that the Org / GB are three quarters right does not help.

This silly expression "only game in town" does make me laugh. The Jews would have told Jesus and his disciples that the Jewish way / Mosaic law, was the only game in town. I'll make a new topic soon I'm learning quickly here.

@TrueTomHarley I think it would be very difficult, impossible in fact, to be an honest whistle blower and stay inside JW Org. If a person wishes to be totally honest in giving warning / making others aware of serious problems in the Org, then they would need to use their real name. Once the elders of his/her congregation became aware of what he/she was doing, then disfellowshippping would closely follow. Once a person becomes disfellowshipped their input is discredited by many. The only way to truly whistle blow about JW Org would be to leave the Org first, giving valid reasons for doing so. It is remarkable however that you @TrueTomHarley turn whistle blowers into apostates with just a flick of your fingers on your keyboard. I care not that you've put it in inverted commas, the accusation is still there. Who knows, if enough of these whistle blowers got together, they could form another 'religion'. After all didn't Rutherford & Co come from former religions and then build a new one ? These whistle blowers could simply carry over the good and discard the bad points of JW Org. Come to think of it, Jesus' disciples did much the same. Carry over the good points from the Mosaic Law and discard the bits no longer needed, thereby forming the new way of serving God properly. And they would have been seen as 'mentally ill' by the Jews.

Thank you @Anna I totally agree with this point.

A few questions please, if i may. Were the GB / Watchtower Soc' actually saying here that children cannot get baptised as JW's ? Were they also saying that full blood transfusions were permissible within JW Org ? Were that saying this in order to get money from somewhere ? Or were they saying it in order to get permission to preach ? @James Thomas Rook Jr. To quote you , if i may. "THIS is what will drive any change .... not love ... not justice ...not fairness .... MONEY!" Are you here talking about the 'Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses' ? Or are you talking only about it's Governing Body ? Whichever it may be, you seem to be saying that this is not God's chosen organisation. I fear that God no longer has any earthly organisation. However, as usual, off topic . Do you have an answer to your original question yet ?

@Anna Well if the GB are right and only those baptised JW's will survive the Judgement time at Armageddon, then one would have to be thinking in line with the Org's thoughts. And as I said originally the 'information' or misinformation was given to me by an elder. Elders are supposed to be up to date with all the latest thoughts coming forth from the top HQ, the GB. As it matters to me personally because I have hopes of some that have committed suicide getting a resurrection, then I am interested to know how those 'taking the lead' feel on this subject. I do find it strange that when i ask such a straight forward question, I cannot get a straight answer. Many here seem to be long standing JW's, some probably are elders, so all I was wanting was a clear answer on the subject. I must say Anna that your last comment does not show warm Christian love.

Um, what has happened to me ? Well I think my head has come out of the clouds and I am now seeing reality.

I was only asking the present view of suicide from the Organisational point of view.

Going back to original topic here. The man should not have 'put all his eggs in one basket' it seems.. It is sad that his business suffered though (if true) as his being shunned might have been 'punishment' enough. I would have thought he would have had legal contracts for his business which would mean that customers would be under legal contract to continue business as usual. It does show the lack of love from JW's though, if they deliberately caused problems to his business.

Um mansions you say. The Org not having money people say. So tell me what this is all about please ? IBSA = JW Org / Watchtower soc' Do ya wanna buy a mansion for over a million pounds ? https://ibsaproperty.com/

Wow, Having missed only two hours on here, I am now 3 pages behind. Makes it rather difficult to keep up and even more so when the subject changes so much on each topic. I do think there is a vast difference in what the 'early Christians' said and did as opposed to what the J W Org / GB say and do now. Someone mentioned about 'those not with us now that were formerly with us', as part of a scripture (you see i do find it difficult to relate to it all ) . But the scripture was concerning those 'early Christians' which were inspired of God and of the Anointed. They would have known 'pure' truth from the Hebrew scriptures, and also have been guided directly by God through Christ and through Holy Spirit. How can anyone relate that to a Governing Body that admit that they are not inspired of God ? How can you relate that to an Organisation that is so big, that the Governing Body is totally out of touch with it ? A Governing Body that admit that they do wrong (err), as well as make mistakes. Having followed this 'blog' for a long time, I've seen / read, many here that have given proof of 'mistakes' / wrong doing by the Governing Body, the Writing Department, Elders et al. So how can a person compare a scripture which relates to the pure worship of God through Christ, of those first century Christians. It makes no sense. In the time of the disciples/ apostles, true worship was direct, because the 'group of people' involved was small. The Greek scriptures were written directly by those actually hands on, doing daily work, and having direct guidance. What can we say now ? No one is inspired by God. No one is pure. The Governing Body give themselves the tittle of F & D S, but it proves nothing, because they get so much wrong. We've also seen by written examples here on this blog , that the elders do not show the love and care for the 'flock'. I do however like the idea of the 'Apostasy spectrum' because the word apostate is banded about by those in the J W org just as an excuse not to talk to or mix with someone, even if said J W knows nothing about the reason someone is no longer attending meetings or has left the Org. I would talk personally with Arauna when she says, a person can only be an apostate to the truth. My answer is, But truth changes week by week in J W Org. Mr Rook, I thought the Charity Commission here in the UK were thinking of stopping the 'allowances' too, but it hasn't happened yet.

The Governing Body are often compared to Moses. *Though why is anyone's guess, as GB are not inspired) However, I tend to think on this. Although Moses did many good things in line with God's instructions, he did disobey God. If my thinking is correct, Moses was told to 'speak to the rock' not to hit it. Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the congregation to the entrance of the Tent of Meeting and fell on their faces. The glory of the Lord appeared to them. The Lord spoke to Moses and said, "Take the staff, and then with Aaron your brother assemble all the community and, in front of them all, speak to the rock and it will yield water. You shall bring forth for them water from the rock, for them and their livestock to drink." Moses took the staff from before the Lord, as he had commanded him. Then he and Aaron gathered the assembly together in front of the rock, and said to them, "Listen to me, you rebels. Shall we bring forth water for you from this rock?" Moses raised his hand and struck the rock twice with his staff. Water gushed forth in abundance, and they all drank, men and beasts. But the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, "Because you did not believe in Me to sanctify Me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore you shall not lead this assembly into the land which I promised to give them." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think there is a lesson here to be learnt. It seems that Moses jumped ahead of following God's instructions. It seems as if Moses was putting himself in the place of God. "Shall WE bring forth water.. " Instead of saying God will give you water. Does the Governing Body jump ahead of God's instructions ? Moses also called God's people 'rebels'. Does the Governing Body judge God's people as rebels ? We know for FACT that the Governing Body 'are not inspired of God' and that they 'make mistakes and err'. So do they in fact deliberately run ahead of God's instructions ? This topic is about Apostates. But could not the Governing Body become apostates if they run ahead of God's instructions and deliberately make things up to suit their own needs ? (the overlapping generations as one example). Mentally diseased. Who are we to judge ? Are the Governing Body using that term to their own advantage ? Remember that Moses took it into his own head to take control "Shall WE bring forth water .. " Jesus spoke of water as a 'living water' 'life giving water', I believe. But we know Jesus was highly approved by his heavenly Father. Is the water coming forth from the Governing Body, 'life giving water' from above ? Or is it man made 'water' and of no real use ? Therefore if a person genuinely believes that the 'water' coming forth from the Governing Body is not approved of by Almighty God, and if then that person chooses to leave the Organisation, are they really 'mentally diseased apostates ? I think Almighty God will decide through Jesus Christ as judge..

Um, empty K H's when the Governing Body say we are so close to the 'end of this system'. I thought there was supposed to be a massive influx near the end, not empty K H's. Actually it is quite difficult for a private person to get insurance for a minibus here in the UK. The government seem to think it has to be for business use. And congregations will not support the running of a minibus, and elders make that clear. As for 'true Christians' travelling as far as it takes. That is not a loving thought. I know of older brothers and sisters that cannot drive in the dark. I think that here in the UK half of every congregation is old people. So where is this love that should abound in the 'truth' ?

So why do those in charge decide to close Kingdom Halls, which then make it more difficult for many people to get to the 'new location' ? And why does the Org forbid the idea of having minibuses in congregations to take the elderly and perhaps the poorer families to meetings ? (And the use of such might also be good for the environment). I think this shows a lack of love toward the 'flock'. Don't the scriptures tell us to 'look after widows and orphans' ? And shouldn't that be on a regular basis ? Not everyone has a seven seater car to pick people up in . I also think that making people travel further to meetings does not encourage the new ones to go to meetings.

Does this way of thinking actually come from the 'world' ? It seems to be a away of taking away the credibility of people. I'm sure it's the type of thing you see in films, when someone wants to make another person feel insecure, or wants to make a person doubt themselves. If in fact the Governing Body are NOT inspired, then how would they actually know if someone else was ? And i do think their attitude is passed down to the elders. A bit off topic but I had a funny thought. Sometimes the Organisation is compared to Noah's Ark. However there were only EIGHT humans in that Ark and the rest were dumb animals that were controlled by those EIGHT humans. Um how many members of the Governing Body are there ? Oh yes EIGHT. And who in control of the Org ? Those EIGHT humans. Does make a person wonder exactly what the Governing Body thinks of all the rest in their Ark.