Patiently waiting for Truth

@César Chávez Where you go totally wrong is by comparing your GB to Moses. And by comparing the CCJW and Watchtower to the early Christian congregations. You seem to fail to understand basic truth. The 1st century Christian congregations were set up by Jesus and the Apostles. Jesus and the Apostles were inspired of God's Holy Spirit. Many of those 1st Century Christians were Anointed ones, maybe all of them. You will remember the 120 in the 'upper room' that received Holy Spirit and began speaking in different languages. No one in the CCJW or Watchtower is inspired of Holy Spirit. The GB are the leaders of both organisations and the GB admit that they are NOT inspired of God's Holy Spirit. I do have the right to judge, as do we all. Otherwise why are 8½ million people JWs ? Many of them came out of other religions. They judged their former religion and then left their former religion. Everyone makes judgements every day. That's how people make decisions. The scriptures you quote had more meaning when they were actually spoken because they were spoken either by Jesus or by Anointed men. They were spoken to Anointed ones. The Greek scriptures are for the Anointed. Luke 12 v 48 Berean Study BibleBut the one who unknowingly does things worthy of punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and from him who has been entrusted with much, even more will be demanded. The True Anointed have been given much and entrusted with much, so much more is demanded of them. I can take judgement from any man and laugh it off, because i know I will be judged by Christ in the end. And as I'm not Anointed then maybe not so much will be demanded of me. I have not forsaken God or Christ, I have only judged an immoral organisation that pretends to serve God. The same way that the CCJW judges the Catholic church and other organisations. I could tear your comment apart bit by bit but i see no point. You and I have totally different opinions which we are both entitled to. If God through Christ wants to use the CCJW, then God through Christ will cleanse that organisation. If not then God, through Christ, will build another organisation using the True Anointed. But right now the GB are a cause for stumbling, and they are restricting the True Anointed from doing their work. Ref; Luke 12 v 48, How can the True Anointed do what's demanded of them if they are not even allowed to meet together for prayer and Bible study ?

@César Chávez Quote " Don't you think, secular authority need to understand the kind of bias they are dealing with or have you related that to them, the hatred you feel about the Watchtower GB. " My dislike of the GB was not involved in this case. But a good point, and yes I have related to the Police the circumstances of me leaving the CCJW. At the bottom of my email to the Police I wrote a paragraph entitled 'Background'. It helped to explain why i could not get more information due to 120 people in the congregation no longer talking to me. It also stated that if my name were mentioned in their enquiry then they would probably be met with untruth about me and about the 'incident' concerned. I also mentioned that it would probably be difficult for them to gain any information from any of the Elders of the congregation. I did also mention that I am not sure if the Elders were actually informed of the incident. So hopefully the Police can bypass the congregation and go directly to the people concerned.

Quote C. C. "since you are taking the judgment of God and telling him, his structure of government doesn't meet the requirement your heart desires." Oh dear, more burbling. You still mix up God with the CCJW. God and Christ are not related to the GB and the CCJW. My 'judgement' is of a dishonest disloyal group of 8 men, known as the Governing Body of CCJW, that have given themselves power over others. These 8 men have judged the True Anointed and have placed themselves above the True Anointed. These 8 men have judged that they are the F&DS and that no one else is worthy of that title. My 'judgement' is also of the CCJW as I needed to judge them for the sake of my Christian conscience. How could i have left them if I didn't judge the organisation as immoral ? Anyone that just follows a life of habit in any religion is not being true to God, Christ, or themselves. Each person has to judge everything they do to be able to make use of their conscience. If a person has a good Christian conscience then they will judge fairly and honestly, as I did. I am surprised that millions of people have not left the CCJW. It only proves to me that JWs are puppets. It seems that JWs are quite happy to live with the immorality in the CCJW as it serves JWs as a social club. They seem to have no Christian conscience.

I don't think so. I think Tom is too sly. Tom implies things. As an example here, i quote Tom "And, the other person called a “sex beast” from another thread— This implies that the 'other person' was only 'called' a 'sex beast'. Whereas all Paedophiles ARE sex beasts.

I'll have to break your comment down here. Quote These are arrangements which help run things in an organized way in a congregation. Organised yes. Through the Elders, fair and honest and showing love, no. The elders are not guided by God's Holy Spirit. Quote because everyone was annointed! Were they ? Jesus said, recorded at John 10 v 16 “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd. Actually the Greek says 'other sheep i am having'. But was Jesus saying that he already had other sheep ? I think there are other scriptures which could lead one to believe that not all of those followers of Christ were anointed ones. Quote Or are you suggesting there should be no organanized way of doing things? I'm suggesting that an Earthwide organisation that is trying to serve Almighty God properly, through Christ, should be run by the True Anointed from around the Earth. That True Anointed would be Inspired by God's Holy Spirit. They would be from different countries from different tribes and tongues. To add to this point the scripture from Revelation 5 v 9 & 10 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.” Jesus bought the True Anointed with His blood, and those True Anointed are from every tribe and tongue and people and nation'. Therefore the remnant of them should be running the True Organisation that is trying to serve Almighty God properly. But the GB tell those of the True Anointed, not to gather together, and even worse, the GB tell those True Anointed that they would be 'working against the holy spirit' if they did gather together. So now you decide @Anna. Does it really matter ? What does your Christian conscience tell you ?

I am wondering if @TrueTomHarley is slyly suggesting that Paedophiles within the CCJW that did their awful deeds in the past, should be let off. And is he also suggesting therefore that the 20 + year database of Child Sexual Abuse concerning the American part of the CCJW, should be discarded ? I too would not have posted the arrest report about JTR. I have no idea what the outcome was but as I've said I hope he gets treated fairly and honestly by the Superior Authorities. I do wonder about his position within the CCJW now, but it's not my business. Tom's last paragraph above does not take into account the Victims that suffered the abuse. As I've said before the Victims get treated as 'Collateral damage'. It seems that Tom is saying that if a person commits Child Sexual Abuse and does not get reported or found out for twenty years, then the accused should just be let off. No feeling for the victims. I can understand why people have said that the CCJW is a Paedophiles paradise. Paedophiles are kept hidden within the CCJW for many years. It is only the last 5 years that so many investigations have taken place Earthwide into all religions, that all this information has now come to light. Surely ALL Paedophiles should pay the price for their Crimes ? I still bring up the point though, if the Australian Bethel had 50 years worth of records regarding CSA, then why does the USA only have 20 years worth of information ?

This story did bring tears to my eyes. https://www.stabroeknews.com/2020/08/21/news/regional/jamaica/jamaican-woman-loses-seven-of-eight-sons/ Latisha greeted the news team with a welcoming smile when THE WEEKEND STAR visited her at her Corporate Area home. However, behind that smile is anguish and pain. Not only is she mourning the death of her son who passed away from cancer last Wednesday, but she lives with the burden of losing six other boys, all tragically. She said that it is her faith that has kept her going. “I am not yet baptised but it is my Jehovah Witness’ faith that keeps me going,” Latisha said. “I cry a lot for them because they are my children and I love them. I am still grateful that Jehovah kept me alive. People always say that I am very strong to endure all of this, but trust me, I am not the one doing it, it’s Jehovah.” Latisha is suffering from occasional memory loss, and had to seek the assistance of her only remaining son to give the names of all her deceased children. She exhaled deeply as she recalled her sons’ deaths. Dave, who was 15 when he died, drowned in 1985 after he was allegedly pushed into the water by someone with whom he went out to sea. A few years later, her second boy Tony was killed at his gate by gunmen. His murder was followed by the disappearance of Ray and Leroy, who were both shot in the 2000s, but their bodies were never recovered for burial. The tears were still flowing when another son, Maurice, was killed. And then in 2018, Al succumbed to injuries he received in an explosion at work. Now, Wayne, her eldest son, has succumbed to cancer. Her only living son listened as she shared the stories. He said that although he has two sisters, he badly misses his brothers and often wonders if he is next. “Mi worry about it sometimes and the thought of death crossed my mind a lot because it is like my family is marked for death,” he said. “I tend to brush it from my mind every time the thought comes across because I have three children to live for.” Latisha says this son is now left with the burden of burying Wayne, who had no savings. She said she is also financially challenged, as her only earnings come from recycling plastic bottles. “I can’t even buy a shirt to bury him, much less a pants. I don’t know how I am going to bury him. I really can’t afford it,” she said. ----------------------------------------------- I presume this is a true story and I hope she receives help from her Congregation.

“What we have here is a failure to communicate,” Wasn't that in a film about murdering the Native Americans ? And I think I remember @TrueTomHarley saying something like 'it's not wise to reveal everything' And @Anna I will agree with @Witness that the scriptures you partially quoted are for the Anointed, not for the Earthly ones. In fact, as I've said before, I believe the Greek scriptures are for the True Anointed only, although we 'earthlings' can of course understand some scripture and it helps with our daily lives and conduct. As for @Thinking, well they come across as saying ' I don't want to be reading this, but i am reading this, but it shouldn't be written here'. Sorry Thinking, I find you quite funny. Are you trying to justify the fact that you are here and reading it all, just like the rest of us. ? We are all sinners. We all have good and bad thoughts. Most likely we all do good and bad things. 'Let him who is still standing beware he does not fall' I would kindly suggest that JWs stop thinking that they are 'better people' than non-JWs. From Tom. Proverbs 11:13: “a slanderer goes about revealing confidential talk,But the trustworthy person keeps a confidence,” Is this what the GB use as an excuse for hiding paedophiles in the CCJW ? So was the Apostle a slanderer ? 1 Corrinthians 5 v 1 & 2 Actually sexual immorality is reported among you, and such immorality as is not even found among the nations—of a man living with his father’s wife. 2 And are you proud of it? Should you not rather mourn, so that the man who committed this deed should be taken away from your midst? The Apostle Paul revealed the truth of the situation, just as we all should.

Once again C. C. you make no sense. You are like TTH, you both talk in riddles. If you have an outright accusation to make and if you can back it up with proof then lets see it. As for anyone threatening the GB, well you could accuse God or Christ of doing so. The GB have been and still are a stumbling block for many people. So this scripture applies to them. Luke 17 v 1 &2 Then he said to his disciples: “It is unavoidable that causes for stumbling should come. Nevertheless, woe to the one through whom they come! 2 It would be more advantageous for him if a millstone were hung from his neck and he were thrown into the sea than for him to stumble one of these little ones.

C.C. you make no sense at all. JWs don't 'go to Almighty God through Jesus Christ'. JWs go through the CCJW organisation. JWs follow their GB by obeying instruction from those men.

The Police have wasted no time in contacting me. The IICSA must have contacted the Police immediately and the Police emailed me today, and i have just replied to them. The Police wanted all the same information and more besides. I actually found it quite easy to deal in facts, and not get emotional about knowing the people involved. What I did find a bit difficult is when they asked questions which i didn't have true answers to, because i didn't want to 'guess' the answers. I made sure to state that certain things were only 'my own opinion'. It would be nice to hear a result but i doubt i will.

I never known a JW to be so political and anti one country as @Arauna is. It certainly is not being neutral. Oh dear.

Quote C. C. " The only confusion I see comes from those that can't separate themselves by combining church and state. A worldly view to be sure. " That's so funny. The confusion I can see is in the GB / CCJW / JWs that cannot separate God and Christ from the CCJW / Watchtower. Confused JWs think that their GB is the gateway to God. Whereas Jesus said "No one comes to the Father except through me". Confused JWs have replaced Jesus with the GB.

@Anna Sorry but i have to pick you up on this point > Quote "It must be stressed though that NOW it is clearly in writing that sins are handled by the congregation,..." Nothing is handled by the Congregation. It is all handled by the Elders and Circuit Overseers etc. The congregation are told nothing. Unlike in scripture when it says 'take it to the congregation.

Is it a fault on your own computer ? I wouldn't think you would lose it intentionally. If anyone was to lose it I would think it would be me. Hope it returns for you soon. I think this is a new page setup as of today. @Arauna Your last comment is very political and not neutral at all I don't think that is just 'Keeping on the watch'.

C.C. You can either use God's written word, or you can use the Watchtower, but you cannot use both as they contradict one another. Unless, as it seems, you like to be confused.

Thinking seems not to be thinking. And if they are sooooo very upset and disgusted then why are they even commenting or reading it ? None of us have judged James and I don't think any of us will. But in some ways things have been put into perspective here. ...................... @Anna I think the ARC case you quoted must be where I got that information from, Thank you. However he did say, at first, that he would not report murder. " THE CHAIR: Q. If a different crime, to take the most extreme, murder. If you were told that a member of the congregation had killed someone else, would you report that to the police? A. We would encourage the person to do that. Q. Would you do it yourself? A. No. I would try very hard not to - not that I would try very hard not to, but I would encourage the person continually to do that. That's a decision they need to make. " ------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is my opinion that when a person is put on the spot like that, then what they first say is the truth from their standpoint. In my opinion, he meant, he would not report it. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@TrueTomHarley The problem of the 20 + year database in America that the GB or their Lawyers are keeping hidden still exists. Unless I am behind the time and the GB have already handed it over to the Superior Authorities. Quote "No offense, but isn’t this a first for you?" I don't know if i have judged individuals of the CCJW of any sexual offence. I have judged the GB as a 'body' and i have uploaded info' from news articles. I have also said that ALL paedophiles are 'sex beasts', because of the damage they do emotionally to children and maybe physically too. As for JTR, it seems he is charged with pornography. As I've no idea exactly what was involved and it is none of my business, then I do not judge him personally. Now the viewing of such pornography does not harm the child, but how was the pornography constructed. It could be that 'innocent' photographs were used and photoshopped to pretend that sexual abuse was taking place. Or it could be that sexual abuse was actually taking place. If a person was to be paying / buying such images or film, then it would be encouraging perverts to continue making such images or film. In my opinion therefore if a person buys pornography it is promoting pornography being made. But if the pornography is freely available online, although still not good, it is not being directly promoted. Quote "I think Anna raises a good point—if it is someone you know, and thus can see as more than one-dimensional " I answered Anna on this by tagging her in a different topic, as It seemed to be totally off topic from here. Unfortunately I don't know how to link topics or comments. My answer to Anna was that I have been in contact with the IICSA, here in UK, about a situation concerning people I do 'know', and they are passing the information over to the Police. In truth do we actually 'know' anyone ? We think we know people. Quote "This is a ridiculous statement. All it means is that there is sometimes not enough evidence upon which to take action. Why don’t you suspend evidence altogether? If anyone is accused of anything, off to jail they go." Tom, you have linked two things here. You have linked the Elders decisions, with the Police / Courts decisions. It seems that secular authorities can work from different 'evidence' than the Elders work on. If you link this with what else @Anna was saying about "Sometimes it must be so difficult to comprehend the whole situation, especially if we know the person well and he is a "really nice guy". Now if the Elders have to judge a child's words against a 'fellow Elder', when they think the 'fellow Elder' is a 'really nice guy', then the Two Witness Rule could well have been used as an excuse to disbelieve the child. But the Police and the Courts are not emotionally involved like the Elders are. So the Police and Courts can take a neutral perspective. Quote: The problem of a “culture of insularity” has been solved. insularity ignorance of or lack of interest in cultures, ideas, or peoples outside one's own experience. Totally different topic.

@Srecko Sostar Is it my imagination or is there evidence that one Elder said that he would not go to the authorities even if a brother confessed to murder. I find it funny that @Anna says " A sin can be forgiven by the congregation, " because the congregation are not given an option. The GB / organisation / Elders make the decisions and the congregation is told what to do. Even though the scripture tell us at Matthew 18 v 17 “Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go and reveal his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. 17 If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector. But the CCJW do not follow scripture. Everything is kept hidden from the congregation. So how can Anna say that " A sin can be forgiven by the congregation, " when the congregation have no information.

@Outta Here Wow, some of those books brought back some memories. The 'Impossible for God to lie ' book, from the 60's, and the 'Lamp' book. It's kinda funny but also kinda sad to see them for sale like that. I kept lots of mine for many years and they moved with me from one place to another. I had two big boxes full of study books and magazines. I may still have them somewhere buried in one of my sheds. I have got some very large vintage Bibles from the 1700's which i will be selling soon. I was going to use them for cross referencing but they are too big and too fragile. I bought them from an auction as I don't like to see old Bibles thrown away, but they are not practical for me to use. As for 'freeloading', I think most people back in the 60's and 70's were very generous with their donations to the organisation. I have no proof of that but it's just a feeling i have.

As I'm in UK some things will not open. This is one of the things that will not open and i could not copy. I took photo of it Is this a common thing now, selling JW info ?

@TrueTomHarley Why do you talk in riddles ?

NWT 3 Continue putting up with one another and forgiving one another freely even if anyone has a cause for complaint against another. Just as Jehovah freely forgave you, you must also do the same. International Standard VersionBe tolerant of one another and forgive each other if anyone has a complaint against another. Just as the Lord has forgiven you, you also should forgive. New King James Versionbearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do. Aramaic Bible in Plain EnglishAnd be forbearing one to another and forgiving one another. But if anyone has an outrage against his neighbor, forgive just as The Messiah has forgiven you, Webster's Bible TranslationForbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man hath a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. Young's Literal Translationforbearing one another, and forgiving each other, if any one with any one may have a quarrel, as also the Christ did forgive you -- so also ye; I thought this was an interesting point Κύριος translates to Lord. But it seems only the CCJW / Watchtower translate that to Jehovah. So, should that scripture be Christ or Almighty God ?

@Anna I think enough facts have been proven Earthwide against the GB and the CCJW / Watchtower. The Two Witness Rule was used as an excuse not to believe Children when they reported CSA to parents and / or Elders. I haven't judged JTR and I won't, but everyone has to keep an open mind about everyone else. There are no 'really nice guys or gals'. We are all sinners. Hence I trust no one. The scripture is "Continue putting up with one another.. " but it doesn't say trust. Quote Anna (regarding the Two Witness Rule ) "Not just CSA, but any accusation, to do with anything." As I understand it, Brothers and Sisters that have spent the night in the same building together have been accused of sexual misconduct BUT without any witnesses.. I'm sure there was a topic on that. All off topic and i hope JTR gets judged fairly and honestly.

@derek1956 But you just blindly serve your GB through the CCJW organisation. The so called 'truth' in the Org' changes every year. Some 'truth' is no longer 'truth' and then they say they have 'new light' with 'new truth'. That is not progression. It is not building upon a foundation. God and Christ DO NOT LIE. So why does you Org; teach lies. You need to remember that I've known the JW organisation since the 1960's and I've seen the lies and false teachings written and them removed later. Books written and used as study books, then those books suddenly removed because of the false teachings. Stumbling blocks for many.... Your Governing Body are not inspired by God's Holy Spirit. They have only recently admitted that. But they still insist that they are the Faithful and Discreet Slave. As for your thoughtless comment. We do have it in writing from Almighty God. We have the Holy Scriptures.