Patiently waiting for Truth

@Arauna Oh dear, you still get Almighty God and the Org mixed up don't you ? Almighty God can be loved and served without the one loving being a JW. And you use the word hate too freely IMO. I have no hate for anyone but i do have deep dislike for anyone deliberately misleading people.

@Arauna You are so funny. Your Organisation teaches people about your Organisation. It teaches that people can only be 'saved' through your Organisation. It teaches that the Leaders, the GB, are special, that they are the Faithful and discreet Slave. It teaches that the rest of the Anointed are not important and should not gather together. It teaches that 'we are in the final part of the final day' when in fact, NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR. It disfellowships and shuns anyone that disagrees with the GB's teachings. It pretends to give Bible studies, but in truth it gives BOOK studies. And those books are written by the GB and their helpers. Then next year they scrap the book and teach something different, because they do not have truth. The true way to serve God is through Christ, not through your GB.

@Arauna The GB know that they are deliberately doing wrong yet continue to do it. How can that be serving God properly ? The GB call themselves the Faithful and Discreet slave, but they are neither faithful or discreet. The GB through the Watchtower magazine, hype up the 'final part of the final day' just to try to frighten people inside and outside of the Org, and to try to bring money in through donations. The GB make it so obvious they are drunk with their power over people. Islam is earth wide. The Catholic church is earth wide. Being earth wide proves nothing. And you seem to be the one obsessed with OCD. it seem to be the only excuse you have to criticise people. As for Bible characters, they were inspired of God's Holy Spirit to do good works. You GB is NOT inspired, nor even guided by God's Holy Spirit. By their works you will know them. Your GB are the one's that are opposing God, not me. I left the CCJW because it is full of immorality. Your GB still hide paedophiles in the American part of the Org. Withholding that 20 + year database is in opposition to God, because it keeps the CCJW unclean. If you cannot see that it is because you are part of it. Your GB and their helpers have stumbled people in the past and continue to do so. If you think 'the end' is sooooo near then you would want the CCJW made clean and you would want the true Anointed to stand in their proper place and the Org to be run properly, and real Truth taught. BUT your main problem. like most JWs, is that you cannot understand that God is not your GB, and your GB are not God. They are two very separate 'beings'. Disliking your GB does not put me in opposition to God and Christ. And my reasons for disliking your GB are in line with God and Christ and the Bible.

http://jwdivorces.bravehost.com/racism2.html It took only until his second issue of ZION'S WATCH TOWER, August 1879, before editor Charles Taze Russell permitted a racist witticism: "The practice of many in teaching is no more consistent than was that of the old Negro who made Paul vindicate him in theft: 'Let him that stole, steal.' The words 'no more', did not suit his purpose." ******************* "... no doubt, many of the negroes once slaves in the United States were happier and better provided for in slavery, than now that they are their own masters." -- ZION'S WATCH TOWER, June 1888. "The negro race is supposed to be descended from Ham, whose special degradation is mentioned in Gen. 9:22,25." -- ZION'S WATCH TOWER, August 1, 1898

To all concerned, I didn't start this as a topic. I presume Admin ??? started it using my name, which to me is slightly unfair (and that is putting it politely). The comment is mine THE TOPIC HEADING ISN'T MINE My comment was in relation to a topic concerning A CAVE IN A REMOTE PART OF MEXICO WAS VISITED BY HUMANS 30,000 YEARS AGO ............ It seems that that topic is about evolution and that someone was suggesting that white people were superior to dark skinned people. Hence my comment above as a Question : Wasn't Russell racist ? But if it pleases Admin ??? to make it into a topic, then so be it. So as it has now become a topic :-

The Watchtower is definitely run by Men, and certainly NOT guided by God's Holy Spirit. And the GB seem to be spending their time selling 'real estate' and hiding the money off shore. The GB are different to me in as much as the GB are deliberately misguiding millions of people within the Org and some outside the org too. Plus the GB and their lawyers are happily hiding Paedophiles in the American part of the CCJW. So yes the people you worship, your GB, are very different to me. I have no interest in protecting Paedophiles and i am interested in protecting children and also interested in the Victims of CSA getting compensation, which your GB are deliberately trying to avoid. You may be 'interested' in serving God, but if you remain in the CCJW then you cannot serve God properly.

But it allows people like you to keep changing their names so I suppose you enjoy it

It seems that everyone has agendas. They start off with the answer and then build a puzzle to fit their answer. Wasn't Russell racist ?

There seems to be some slight information to make it clear that it is not only JWs being persecuted. So the idea that all other 'religions' are part of the world and therefore not effected, is proven wrong. As for leaders of one country telling leaders of another country, how to run their country, we know that America does that all the time. That is why it is such a shame that the rulers of the CCJW are American. Americans have such a domineering attitude and always want to be in charge. Quote @Arauna If anyone had doubts that we are living in the time of the end …… they must re-examine the scripturas and look at what is really going on in the world. Yes but we have been living in the time of the end for a very long time, and it could still be years away. Remember it was due in the 70's according to the JW leaders back then. (1967 Watchtower saying last part of last day)

And you @Arauna sound very bitter and judgemental

I think this Forum and others are used by GB helpers as a measuring stick, to find out people's attitudes towards the GB and it's teachings. I think it is used in 'research' to see how much the GB think they can get away with and how obvious their wrong teachings are. Any sensible business looks for feedback good or bad. And the CCJW is just another business at the moment. They make money from 'real estate' and push that money offshore to hide it. They can research forums and find out how much people 'of the world' know about their wrongdoings. Simples.

I'll repeat what i wrote earlier for the sake of @Arauna It is so obvious to me that a person cannot be a JW and have a good active Bible trained conscience. The two completely contradict one another. And who will dare answer my questions about, Does God read hearts of everyone or just JWs ? Will God condemn everyone that is not a JW at Armageddon ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote @Arauna while the condition of the heart is important - this is the criteria: New American Standard Bible"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' In this case many JWs will be 'departing' probably including the GB of the CCJW and many 'helpers'. But I have said many times that I know I will not live through Armageddon so I'm not one of the 'self righteous that Arauna is so OCD about. But I will die in the knowledge that i have warned others of the wickedness of the GB and in the CCJW.

BUT THE GB STILL DON'T WANT TO PAY COMPENSATION TO VICTIMS OF CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE AND THE GB STILL HIDE THE AMERICAN PAEDOPHILES IN THEIR CCJW ORG. IT'S ABOUT TIME THE FBI WENT IN AND GOT THE DATABASE. THE GB AND THEIR LAWYERS ARE DISGUSTING IN WORD AND DEED. ALMIGHTY GOD WILL SOON SORT THEM ALL OUT.

@Srecko Sostart is unfortunate that, we humans, have lost our inner feelings for right and wrong, and that/how belonging to something (religion, politics, philosophy, etc.) becomes a method by which certain good values are achieved or which lead to the opposite side, to the side of evil. That is why I left the JW organisation, because I DO know right from wrong. JWs hide in their Org and just see ex JWs and victims of CSA as collateral damage. JWs become more like machines, having no real feelings, just obeying the GB through the Elders. They give up their consciences to be accepted in the 'club'. They stop looking for truth because they don't want to find it. They are happy in their 'social club' of 'friends' all serving their GB. It is more likely the EX-JWs, that left of their own choice, that will have inner feelings for right and wrong because they joined the JW org for the right reasons, then they also left the JW Org for the right reasons too. It is so obvious to me that a person cannot be a JW and have a good active Bible trained conscience. The two completely contradict one another.

I haven't yet read all comments, having been away for two days, but there does seem to be a contradiction from people like CC and others that say "God can read hearts " BUT also say "One has to be a Baptised JW to be 'saved' ". So which is it ? Are some folks suggesting that God, through Christ, will only look at hearts of JWs? And that anyone else will be condemned just for not being a JW ? Anna makes sense here : Personally, I think Jehovah will judge their hearts without them ever having to be exposed to the Truth. Just like he will judge the hearts of those elsewhere who have not heard or had a chance to respond to the good news.

Very deep thinking @Srecko Sostar . It raises the question, Can spirit persons be killed ? Will the Devil and his Demons be killed or just restricted permanently ? Revelation 20 v 14 says New International VersionThen death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. New Living TranslationThen death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. Now this is all symbolic of course. Death and the Grave cannot literally be thrown into the Lake of Fire, as the lake of fire isn't a real lake, and Death isn't an object which could be thrown. So, do we actually know if spirit persons can literally be killed ? English Standard Versionand the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Berean Study BibleAnd the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Now why would Revelation say that they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. ??? The Bible tells us that 'The dead are conscious of nothing at all'. But that is human dead it is referring to. I suppose one point about 'death in heaven' is that the Devil and his Demons have been cast down to the Earth. So they can no longer enter heaven. Now, do we know if ALL the Angels have been tested ? Another point is Do we know exactly when ALL the Angels were tested ? The CCJW presume it was 1914. Perhaps there are things which are none of our business. Perhaps we will never know the answers as those situations are between Almighty God / Christ and those Angels. Srecko, on your point of death never existing. I would think from the creation of animal life, that death existed. Animals dying naturally or being killed by other animals. Otherwise the earth would have become overpopulated with animals. And i think later Adam and Eve would have seen animal death so as to know what death was.

I'll repeat. TTH never has anything spiritual to say and very rarely anything sensible either. But it's good to know he is still alive and well. And it's nice to know the two of them have story telling in common, but hey, that's what JWs do isn't it, just make up stories.

Matthew 18:15-17 15"If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. Do you mean this one ? Well this scripture proves that your GB disobeys scripture. Because your GB or previous leaders have imposed such secrecy into the procedure of disciplining. The 'church' or congregation do not have any facts or details but are still expected to shun people, just on the say so of Elders / CO's decisions. NOW imagine if every Paedophile accusation had been told to the church, to the congregation as a whole. Then no one could have been accused of hiding Paedophiles in the congregations, AND no Paedophile would have had the opportunity to prey on more than one victim. So remember those words at Matthew 18 v 17 TELL IT TO THE CHURCH. Even though your GB decided to change that scripture to this :- 17 If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector Whereas all the others say this :- New International VersionIf they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. English Standard VersionIf he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Berean Study BibleIf he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, regard him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. Berean Literal BibleAnd if he fails to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he fails to listen to even to the church, let him be to you as the pagan and the tax collector. New American Standard Bible"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. New King James VersionAnd if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. King James BibleAnd if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Do you understand now ?

I've asked to see these Scriptures quoted on here. All those supposedly direct scriptures about Shunning. So come on lets see them. Show me a scripture which refers to a person of good Bible trained conscience leaving an immoral organisation and why that person should be shunned, when it is not that person that has committed sin but the Leaders of that organisation and people in that organisation that has committed the sins........... I think @Witness said , it is us that should be shunning the CCJW and it's GB. But no, the GB make rules so that we cannot show proof to JWs exactly how perverted the CCJW really is. But my conscience is clear in that I make it known the best ways i can, to try to help people stay safe from Paedophiles and from the lies taught in the CCJW.

Quote @Arauna " Seen enough of your warped accusations and logic. As I said before - you feed off your hate somehow...which is not based on justice. It is based on raw emotion of hate for everything to do with JWs, GB. " I am sorry that you are so unwell and not able to understand English, and that you love making accusations against me, but that you hate that i make accusations against the GB or the CCJW. I have said many times that the CCJW does have some basic truthful foundations. However those truthful foundations were established many years ago and are only in agreement with what the Bible teaches. So the CCJW has not actually done anything marvelous in agreeing with God's written word. By reading what you say about me, I imagine you would have said similar to Jesus about how he spoke to the Pharisees. I only mention faults where faults exist, just as Jesus did. As for 'groundhog day', the phrase means nothing to me, I'm not American so don't care to know what it is supposed to mean. If you have something to tell me please use English phrases as examples not American ones. And yes I do have dislike for Americanism, their idea that collateral damage is a good excuse for people's suffering does not sit well with me.

Thank you @Srecko Sostar I hadn't seen this information anywhere before, but I'm sure God and Christ are watching the GB and it's Org closely, and hopefully justice will be done soon.

@Arauna Um wow, you seem to think you know my inner thoughts now. You know what I'm interested in and what I'm not do you ? Once proven the Paedophiles in the CCJW should have been exposed immediately and disfellowshipped immediately. The whole congregation should have been told the names and so should people outside the congregations. But no, they were kept hidden in the congregations. It's not my fault that you GB and Elders wanted to hide those Paedophiles inside the CCJW. And that the GB and their Lawyers are still hiding Paedophiles in the American part of the CCJW by not handing over that 20+ year Database containing ALL the names and details of the American Paedophiles in your Org. I would not like to be your friend either as you seem to like the Paedophiles being in the CCJW more than you love God. And the hypocrites are you and the CCJW members that stand up for the GB in it's disgusting acts. And the point being proven on this topic is that the GB Lawyer deliberately PRETENDED / LIED that SHUNNNING was not practised within the CCJW. Another point is that if a person leaves the CCJW your GB and Elders are frightened to tell the congregation that fact. They deliberately hide the FACT that MANY JWs are chosing to LEAVE the CCJW of their own choice, and they are leaving because of faults in the Org , not because they have faults in themselves. Your Organisation is corrupt, your GB are corrupt, your service to God is invalid. It is just a habit that you all continue to do because you do not know right from wrong.

Quote CC Matthew 18:15-17 15"If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. But the CCJW don't follow this procedure. They do it all in secret. So no one in the congregation knows truth from lies. And when someone leaves of their own choice, the GB and Elders are too frightened to tell the congregation that someone actually chose to leave. Funnily enough Jesus chose Matthew and he was a Tax Collector.

What rubbish you people talk @JW Insider @TrueTomHarley @Arauna Especially Tom as he can only make, what he thinks are jokes. His mind doesn't seem capable of sensible thinking. Poor man. As for JWI, making very weak excuses for the GB and their Lawyers. It just doesn't cut it. No one with any sense will believe you. And i note you are using the WTS, not the CCJW. However the Leaders are in control of both, but pretended they are not connected to either, in court if I remember correctly. The Leaders of the CCJW / JW organisation made the rules that Child Sexual Abuse was to be dealt with internally and that outside authorities and the Police were not to be notified. They also made the rules that Paedophiles were to kept hidden in the congregations. No announcement was to be made to the congregation and no name was to be given out. They also made the rule of using the Two Witness rule against victims. They also made the rule that Victims had to face the Paedophile that they were accusing. They also made the rule that the victim could not have a person to support them in the room whilst they were being questioned or when they had to face the Paedophile. A child had to be 'alone' without support, in a room with the Paedophile that had assaulted them, and also being questioned by three men. NOW YOU TELL ME THAT THEY ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE. What rubbish you talk. Remember that the money was there in the Org when these things were taking place. That money was probably invested and grew much profit. It's not all new money. So those that were victims of CSA deserve an apology and a payout. BUT no, the GB think it is their money. And you JWI said "In most cases they are just using the law to protect the financial interests of the client." YES JWI, you have it in one. BUT they are misusing the law by directly telling LIES. And the GB / Lawyers have no interest in honesty, love, mercy or justice. It is all just Collateral Damage, so as to keep the money pot full in the CCJW. Mr Rook knew that too. What hypocrites you people really are. To pretend to people that the CCJW is such a safe place and so loving, when you know it's so untrue. Never mind, Almighty God will sort the GB out and form a true religion with the True Anointed.

Um, even Jehovah didn't get a capital letter. And how to you think I am 'being exposed' ? You are such a strange lady.