Patiently waiting for Truth

It's quite simple, Elders are known to break the Org rules when it suits them, and it is accepted. Whereas I didn't break that rule. You said "Of course it has happened, and still does— " You admitted to doing it yourself. So you must ask yourself if it is a rule in your area, and do the Elders in your congregation break the rules of the Organisation ? If so, and if then CSA happens, who is to blame ? The Elders who break the rules are to blame it would seem. But the Elders get protected by the Org. It's a vicious cycle, but always the victims that suffer. The Elders have obeyed the GB by hiding CSA in congregations and by hiding paedophiles in the congregations too. By not telling the whole congregation who the paedophile is, it endangers all congregants children. But, the Elders do those things by following instructions from their hierarchy. The thing is Tom, what I'm saying has been proven many times in courts of law. Even though the courts of the 'world' are not the best places, when a paedophile has confessed to police or in court then truth has been proven, and things that I've mentioned have therefore been proven to be true. A quote from your earlier comment " Bob Cook, wrote: “The most upsetting thing about many child-protection rules is they assume any adult is capable of doing something bad. " Of course any adult is capable of doing something bad. Bad in different ways maybe, but anyone alive is capable of doing bad things. It seems that most paedophiles are known to their victims. And in the JW congregations people 'know' each other closely, (they think they know each other, that is). And that has been proven so many times. That is why parents allow other adults to take their children off, but the Elders allow it to happen in the Kingdom halls and on the ministry.

@TrueTomHarley Thank you for a good laugh Tom. I've said it before, that you are a writer with a very BIG imagination. You have made up so much it is funny. Now another Quote with another semi-accusation :- "That point notwithstanding, why in the world would you not agree to this?—unless there is some twisted background that you are not conveying. " Do you see that accusation Tom ? Now the reason I did not agree to take the child with me on the ministry is quite simple. I was obeying the Organisations procedure. It's called being humble. In the congregations I have been in, the rules have been that at meetings children must sit with their parents, and on the ministry children must be with a parent. If this is UK rules I don't know but that's how it was. However, other people did not obey those rules, but that was their choice. Then you ramble on, two paragraphs, about Boy Scouts, Joe Pa Days and Catholics. Why ? It has nothing to do with the CCJW or Watchtower Soc'. The whole point that i was making is this. And you have helped my prove my point. Quote :- "The Jehovah's Witnesses have not sponsored any programs or activities that separate children from their parents at any time," it said in a statement to AAP. You have helped me by admitting that as a JW, you spent time alone with a child that wasn't yours. Thank you Tom. You said "Of course it has happened, and still does— " Once again proving my point. As for your silly idea of me pretending to be righteous, I've said I doubt if I will be counted worthy of the 'New world'. So I think that disproves your accusation on that one. Just as a note. Here in England the congregations i have been in tell Brothers and Sisters that are not married to each other, not to travel in a car together, and not to enter a house together. It's all about being seen to be innocent, or not leaving room for accusation. Now, use that same idea with adults spending time alone with someone else's child. As for court cases and verdicts, JW Lawyers tell so many lies that they could 'get away with murder' in court rooms. A verdict in either direction does not proof truth or justice. So following court cases seems a lost cause. However I do honestly believe that God though Jesus Christ, through Holy Spirit, will sort the CCJW out and make it safe and clean for honest hearted ones to be able to serve God properly. But i cannot be part of the Org now as it is so unclean. A person does not have to be 'righteous' to see it. Even if not all of the accusations Earthwide are true, say only half of them are true, it is still too much, and also many other problems regarding misuse of scripture and mistreatment of the Anointed. It all has to be sorted long before Armageddon.

People so love to misquote me. It does make me laugh This is an example. " you thinking mankind can clear out sins as if they had power equal to that of the Most High is quite absurd, .." Whereas i actually said this :- And I believe that Jesus Christ will have that database used in American courts, as part of the cleaning of the CCJW. Christ will use the Superior Authorities of the 'world' to clean out the things of the 'world' from the CCJW. So hopefully people can see the difference. I have faith in God through Christ, not faith in men.

@TrueTomHarley You don't want to believe the things I say because they upset your little 'dream world' of your 'wonderful organisation'. Elders take young children, that are not their own children, on the ministry. Older brothers ans sisters do likewise. Brothers or sisters take children, that are not their own, to meetings in their cars. Elders, older brothers and older sisters do home Bible studies for children that are not their own. Some parents cannot give their own children a bible study because the children will not behave well enough for their parents but will behave 'better' for an older adult. I quote you here to show how perverted you are Tom, "I take from this that you were not stalking the child." it's a sort of semi-accusation i know. It is a thing that JWs do well. It's sly and it's meant to bring shame on the person accused. Not long ago, and for no reason it seems, you mentioned masterbation in one of your comments. Prior to that you have mentioned 'Getting all wet' over something. Now you mention stalking a child. You seem to have a serious problem and I'm trying hard not to accuse you of anything. But the topic of CSA does seem to upset you. And you doubt I was a JW for 50 years. OK, if that fits your agenda. I'm not single minded and in the last couple of months I've put up 6 topics on this forum not related to CSA. Another quote :- " On other issues, you seem so unaware of how JWs think that I’ve even questioned whether you ever were one. " Just another accusation from you Tom. Please give me examples of this if you can. But bare in mind that American JWs may think differently to English JWs. Different cultures, especially South of England. We are so cold hearted and rather blunt with people, it seems. I may have mentioned previously that when I started studying the teaching was of the 7,000 year Creative Days and then the 6,000 years of human existence, then the 1,000 year reign of Christ. It all seemed so simple and 'true' back then in the 1960's. No Governing Body back then. NO F&DS mentioned as far as I can remember. But serious restrictions on teenagers. No parties or gatherings at all. No modern music or modern dancing. No modern 60's clothing. Very restrictive here in Southern England in the 1960's and 70's. The good thing was that Italian mohair suits and slim knitted ties were a Mod thing and were just about allowed though frowned upon by many. . Oh yes Tom I remember it well. But of course you don't believe me. Have a good day. I continue to forgive you as Jesus said we should forgive one another. Just one last note and another quote of you, "and yet you still think it doubtful you will make it into the new world." Your GB and it's ORG say that a person HAS TO BE A JW TO SURVIVE ARMAGEDDON. So according to your GB and it's Org, I won't be in the New world.

@Equivocation Firstly you seem to assume that i was disfellowshipped. You are WRONG. I quote you "Well disfellowshipment does cut congregation ties, " BUT because the GB are so wicked they do not allow the Elders to say that a person has LEFT THE ORGANISATION. Therefore everyone presumes a person was disfellowshipped, and because of that no one will talk to that person. However I do have contacts still in the Org that know the truth and will still talk to me by telephone or email. Quote "Errr.. What do you mean going out into the world? " I don't go out to mix with people. i don't go looking for 'friends' in the world. I don't drink alcohol so don't go to pubs / drinking houses. I don't go to festivals or night clubs. I live in a small town and don't go into the city very often. I live a simple but still interesting life. I'm quite happy walking in the local woodlands or on the beach if it's empty. But England is having a lot of trouble right now, so i tend to stay home most days. I'm 70 and retired, but still lively and keep busy. Even at home i can find lots to do. When the virus is gone, if ever, then i will go out more, but I still won't go looking to meet people. Maybe you cannot understand that some people are quite happy to be alone or just with the ones they love. Even if I get into the 'New World' (very doubtful) I would still prefer peace and quiet and being alone. And here in England the CCJW / JW Org teach the congregations not to have any friends outside of the Organisation. I think it is done to keep people in the Org. Some people want to leave but are frightened to leave because they know they will lose everyone. Their whole world of contacts will be gone if they leave. That is a threat that the GB make and it has no scriptural backing. Those that want to leave are PIMO Physically in, Mentally out. They just use the Org as a social club. My conscience wouldn't let me do that. I had reason to leave so i left.

@Equivocation You are over generalising. I didn't say SM had no idea about child abuse, i said he has no idea about how it has been dealt with in the CCJW. I also said that he would actually have to be a JW to know how things are handled in the Org. I was a JW for 50 years so I do have a bit of knowledge about the Org. Plus I have some knowledge that I should not have, from people that should not tell me. As for Elders, they do as they are told from men higher up in the Org. Now as for SM going out into the 'world' and helping children, that is his choice. When i was a JW I was taught to be 'no part of the world' and not to mix with 'worldly' people... Hence I never had any 'worldly' friends, so never knew personally any 'worldly' situations. You have to know people well to be able to talk to them deeply about such personal things. SM is not a JW so his life is different. He seems to share his time between spiritual and physical things. JWs in England spend their time on spiritual matters and occasionally helping brothers and sisters, but not much of helping anyone outside the Org. As I am no longer a JW I have lost all those people that i had contact with. I won't call them friends as they obviously weren't, because they would not have shunned me if they were friends. So, due to this Covid-19 I stay home. I am lucky to have a lovely wife and a good son so I'm not alone. But as for going out into the world, no thank you.

Quote @Space Merchant As for the database, we do not know, some are saying they have one, some are saying they do not, others have said they have destroyed it. We should not be playing multiple choice with something serious If the American CCJW Bethel has destroyed the CSA / Paedophile 20 year Database it would prove they are not serving Almighty God. It would prove that they are deliberately hiding Paedophiles in the CCJW / Watchtower Soc'. It would prove they have things to hide and that they should not be trusted at all. However, i do not believe they have destroyed it. And I believe that Jesus Christ will have that database used in American courts, as part of the cleaning of the CCJW. Christ will use the Superior Authorities of the 'world' to clean out the things of the 'world' from the CCJW. Almighty God used armies of this 'world' to punish the Israelites. And did He use or just allow the Romans to destroy Jerusalem ? Either way it got the job done. Do you think God and Christ have stopped working toward humans ? Ye people of little faith.

The report also said this. which is of course a direct lie. "The Jehovah's Witnesses have not sponsored any programs or activities that separate children from their parents at any time," it said in a statement to AAP. Well in fact JWs do separate children from their parents in field service. Elders have been known to take other people's children on field service and in fact this has been proven in some court cases. Just an Elder or an older brother or sister with a child, and no 2 witnesses. I've been on the ministry in the past and a child has actually asked to be with me on the doors. I've declined as I think children should be with their parents. Also Elders do private Bible study or 'shepherding calls' with children, without parents being in the room. A Bible study can last an hour, just that Elder and child in the room, no 2 witnesses. Please remember I was a JW for 50 years. I do know what I'm talking about. Now a bit of balance :- the report says this, but "This will result in survivors receiving nothing," Knowmore principal lawyer Anna Swain told AAP. I don't think this is true either. It just means that each survivor will have to take the CCJW or the individual Elder / brother / sister to court individually. It will mean lots of separate court cases but that will cost lots of money of course.

Well that comment deserves a laughing face. Nice to see some humour Tom.

'Untrue Tom Harley' just repeats himself time and time again. He must be trying so hard to convince himself of the things he repeats. Yes I read through all his rubbish time and time again just to see if there is any sign of life in it. But no it's as dead as ever. I've noticed he's stopped advertising his books. The Writing dept' and the GB. The blind leading the blind, whichever one is in the lead. Quote TTH " I could be wrong, but I bet the GB has learned to be very leery of such phrases and terms as “mouthpiece” and “inspired” and “spirit-directed” " But they still call themselves ' the faithful and discreet slave '. Which is even worse as the title was never theirs to use. Wicked slave that they can be seen to be, beating up their fellow slaves. Quote "“At Bethel, the Governing Body study their Bibles. An idea will occur to one of them. They will discuss it among themselves and when they all come to agreement, it will appear in print.” THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT. Those 8 men decide what appears in print BUT they are not guided by Holy Spirit. It is just the ideas of 8 men and maybe some of the Writing Dept. And there is one more thing which hasn't been mentioned about those 8 men. @JW Insider and others find it ok to mention GB members or 'Board' members from past times, but no one tells us who is 'in charge' right now. It seems that in the past there was always a 'ring leader' or a 'boss' but no one says that about the GB now. The point being that if there is a bully or one that is determined to get his way, then his ideas will make it to the printing press. So just the ideas and traditions of men. @Anna seems to have noticed it and I think JTR Jr noticed it too.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mexico-earthquake-death-toll-rises/ Inside a Mexico City military barracks converted to COVID-19 hospital, medical staff suited in protective equipment tried to calm anxious patients. Unable to evacuate isolation areas, patients huddled under a large beam in the women's ward while a nurse tried to calm one having a panic attack. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/mexican-officials-raise-oaxaca-earthquake-death-toll-to-six/2020/06/24/53f63b60-b61d-11ea-a510-55bf26485c93_story.html Mexico is combating one of the world’s most severe coronavirus outbreaks, and emergency management officials had expressed concern about what it would mean to respond to a large earthquake in the middle of a pandemic. Civil protection coordinator David Leon said that more than 20 hospitals were damaged in the country, Deutsche Presse reported. Mexican newspaper El Universal reported that in some cases, patients had to be temporarily evacuated.

Sounds like it could be pretty in sunrise and sunsets. Maybe good for photographers, hopefully some great photos. But not so good for people suffering with poor lungs. Don't know if it is exciting or worrying.

I think it affected hospitals where they had Covid-19 patients too. One serious problem on top of another. Yes, only God's 'new world' will sort out every problem on this Earth. It's a pity that so many (maybe including me) will have to die, but each one of us will be judged fairly and then in that 'new world' no one will suffer as they do now.

And one other thing that puzzles me is, in the ARC investigation the Australian Bethel seemed to have reports of CSA going back 50 years, but in America, where the religion started, they only have reports / database going back to 1997. So i wonder what they did with all previous reports ? Did they destroy them ? There could have been information previously about men that have 'high positions' in the Org now.

Quote @Anna Going back to the fear of apostates, it makes me wonder why they (the GB) are so afraid, to the point of putting the fear of God in you if you so much as glance at something apostate related. That has always bothered me a bit. Are they afraid that their influence be undermined? That people will lose trust in them? If that is so, where then does the trust in Jehovah figure? Are we not supposed to trust Jehovah more than any man? It is nice to see Anna ask these questions. It shows she has balance. But :- Firstly we have to ask. Who is it that decides who is Apostate ? And then what exactly are they supposed to be Apostate to ? Some on here now use the word Opposers. But the question still remains, Who are these ones Opposing ? This is where the GB's fear starts. Note Anna's words above. Also note the last sentance. The GB are frightened that congregants will become Apostates of the GB. Now, to pretend that they have more information and to pretend they are guided by God the GB do this :- Once again I quote Anna. However, those who follow the developments in the world and read the guidelines as proposed by human agencies (as you mentioned) will know this pandemic is by no means over, and may last a very long time. We don't need the GB telling us what we already know. However, we do appreciate their reminders and concern. But to cloak this in a way that insinuates they have more knowledge, when all they do is follow the same developments that are accessible for anyone else to read and study, is....well, funny @JW Insider Tries his best to justify it all. But it can be clearly seen that the GB are using the Covid-19 situation to try to show themselves as above others and as having 'special' information. Is Anna the only JW on here that notices these things OR is she the only one acting honestly in this case ?

@Equivocation Please do not fall into the same trap as Space Merchant. He seems to think that because the JW Org / GB write 'pretty' words about hating child abuse, that the GB and others are innocent. I notice SM compares Australia to the UK, but doesn't mention America. I think that the GB and their Lawyers are still withholding the 20 year database of American Child Sexual Abuse victims within the JW Org.. That database must contain the names of hundreds of paedophiles in American congregations, many of them being Elders and MS and probably some men that are now higher up in the organisation. It will probably contain the names of some women too as not all paedophiles are men. No matter what magazines are printed congregants will still not believe that there are paedophiles in their congregations. Congregants will still trust all the Elders and MS, and Circuit Overseers etc.. And Elders do not tell the whole congregation even if there is a known paedophile in the congregation. Space Merchant has mentioned that some times parents abuse their own children. This is true and it has been proven in courts. But in the CCJW / JW org if a child has reported this to the Elders, the Elders do not believe the child or tells the child not to tell anyone else. It is the secrecy in the JW org that has made it possible for so many paedophiles to abuse so many children.

I agree that it is Yahweh, not Jehovah.

@Space Merchant Yes I have basic knowledge of the grooming gangs here in the UK, and I am aware that the governments /politicians are just as bad in some ways. Even some UK police officers have been involved. I don't dig deep into this type of thing as IMO it is all 'part of the world'. I have no intention of getting involved in investigating those things. Every day there are wicked deeds taking place here in the UK and many times light prison sentences are given. Then there is uproar from some members of the public. People screaming all over Facebook and else where. I don't get involved. I 'live in a very small world'. My wife, my son, (who is twenty five years old), and myself. One household. And with present circumstances that is all I need. So I have no direct contact with anyone else. But the whole point of this forum is Jehovah's Witnesses, and the whole point of this topic is an investigation into that organisation. And that is why I'm a member of this forum, to talk about Jehovah's Witnesses and it's GB and the Watchtower. If i wanted to talk about Catholics I'm sure i could find a forum about them. and if i wanted to talk just about 'world condition' or just 'child abuse', then I'm sure i could find forums to use. BUT I'm here to talk about the JWs, the CCJW, the GB and the Watchtower, that's all.

Wow and yes i stuck with it all, reading every word that y'all had written . @JW Insider seems to have a split personality on this topic. He deliberately kicks the man down, then he says he agrees with a lot of the things he wrote. @TrueTomHarley is just Tom. He just loves to try to wind people up. Tom I forgive you your slander against me, which you seemed to enjoy as you wrote a complete paragraph about it. @Anna You seemed to go off topic, but then don't we all. In all, I've noticed that you are not really interested in the BOOK, but are more interested in 'analysing' the writer. I feel it is because the Book troubles you all. The reason being as JWI has hinted at, that Furuli speaks truthfully about the GB and about problems in the CCJW. Anna did bring up the point that the GB are NOT like Moses or Jesus. Please keep in mind that your GB has said they are NOT INSPIRED. And Anna (I think) mentioned that the Writing Department do the writing anyway, and they too are NOT inspired. IMO none of them are even 'spirit led or guided'. And Anna rightly said that Tom could write the Watchtower mags. JWI seemed to think that I had 'gone off to some other Christian org', but I have not. All of you seem to think that 'God belongs to the CCJW' because you make mention of when a person leaves the CCJW they are leaving God. This is untrue but you will not be convinced. The rest of it just seemed to be the three of you patting each other on the back, which is fine. Dinner time, be back later, 4Jah2me

Three of you in panic. Looking for ways to put the man down. So funny @TrueTomHarley @Anna @JW Insider Are you getting worried about your dear old GB ? Or are you getting worried about the complete CCJW / W/t ? You all know that the CCJW is in a mess. (Australia and IICSA UK for a start, possibly loss of charitable status in both countries). Hence i think you are panicking. But you also clearly show how you are brainwashed by the GB's mentality. You just cannot accept that this man did something ON HIS OWN. You have to link him with others. TTH is probably unhappy that this man's book will actually get some attention whereas Tom's might not. And no i haven't read it yet. But do I need to as its already been dissected on here ? And yes Tom he probably would have had my support on some things. Anna trying to make the man look small by suggesting he had a 'tantrum'. JWI talks about a 'subtext' in order to put this man down. If you three are an example of what the CCJW is now, then I'm glad I'm not part of it. The Org needs cleaning out and new Anointed Servants need putting in place by Jesus Christ using Holy Spirit, but you lot have lost your faith and no longer believe in God's active force. Seems the best you can do is criticise a man that tried to help the Org move forward.

@Space Merchant What is more funny is the fact you upvoted my comment on June 16. And an important word in @Witness 's top heading comment is 'allegedly' allegedly pushed cash offshore. As for teaching children anything, my wife and I have put ourselves on 'lockdown' so no visitors and no visiting others. Being an 'old man' I don't go out much anyway so the only 'preaching' i do is online through Facebook pages, and it is surprising the good response I get. In my June 16 comment i did mention that I cannot hear what is said on videos, it is all a muffled noise. So i don't watch videos but I do try to read all written articles linked. However i will say again, people on this forum lack true faith. If God and Christ want a clean organisation they will HAVE a clean organisation. It has nothing to do with humans being imperfect. It has nothing to do with CSA being 'all over the world'. It is up to God through Christ to do the cleansing. Of course they will 'use' humans, but those humans will be guided by holy spirit. Remember the words of Jesus (something like) 'If you have faith the size of a mustard grain and you say to this mountain fall into the sea, it will happen'. Well Jesus will use the true Anointed and there will be a true faith.

And your point? I merely stated that we can do much more to help the children out there when we apply better solutions, as even prompted by those who fight child abuse the correct way. No SM, what you said was :- For someone who is this keen on mentioning CSA time and time again, Hence my comment about my last SIX topics. Don't sidetrack on what you've actually accused me of. I mention CSA when there is a need to mention it. I think Space Merchant and others are in for a big shock within the next twelve months. I think things would have progressed quicker but the virus I presume has quietened things down in the USA proceedings against the GB and CCJW, or is it just that i have missed something ? The IICSA are still working on the investigation here in the UK. If charitable status is taken away from the CCJW in Australia and the UK they will find life a bit difficult, and if they are asked to open up all of their accounts for inspection by the Authorities then i think many more questions would be asked. As for SM, he seems to think that the hundreds of CCJW CSA victims are telling lies or just making up stories. The GB and their 'soldiers/police force' have done a good job of hiding paedophiles in the CCJW and a good job of convincing many people that it does not exist. Of course the Devil does a similar job of convincing people that he does not exist too.

I wonder if he was honest when he was younger.

Norwegian newspaper confirms Furuli disfellowshipped Furuli has been disfellowshipped from Jehovah's Witnesses I can confirm that I am now excluded, says Rolf Furuli, who for nearly 60 years has been a key figure in Jehovah's Witnesses nationally and internationally. Furuli says he takes the exclusion with great calm. Usually, such an exclusion will be terribly heavy. Your entire network is broken and friends will no longer talk to you. But for me it is not so. I have a network all over the world of scientists and elders who see the problems in the organization. These I want to keep in touch with, says Furuli. Vårt Land has been in contact with Jehovah"s witnesses spokesperson in Scandinavia, Dag Erik Kristoffersen. He says he has no information about a possible exclusion of Furuli, and that he is therefore unable to comment on the case at this time. But Cato Pretorius of the Torstrand congregation in Larvik, Furuli's local congregation, confirms the exclusion. Since this is publicly known, we can confirm that he is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses, he writes in an SMS to Vårt Land.