Patiently waiting for Truth

As Jesus himself said ( English Standard Version )“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword." TTH I presume you are in contact with JTR so that you are able to know why he does what he does. Do you presume that JTR was not speaking from his heart ? Do you think he said things to 'make friends' ? I don't believed JTR was swayed by anyone. i think he said what he wanted to say because he had those feelings in him at the time. I hope he is well and happy.

Um, yes well. Thank you @JW Insider 8 translations per page................ Maybe i could manage one with the 4 translations per page. but my concentration would only be for around an hour on that. As for most of my bibles they have lots of notes everywhere. BUT, i was always told not to take such a Bible on the ministry because it look disrespectful. I disagree with that viewpoint, I think it looks used and referenced. In my opinion the actual paper copy Bible is a tool to be used and if writing notes in it helps then go for it. You wouldn't buy a spade and not dig with it, just to keep it looking new and shiny. Thank you for your help on this. I know much can be done online but I like sitting in my rocking chair occasionally and just relaxing and reading.

I love to put 'votes' on all individual comments because to me it shows impartiality. My vote is for or against each comment, not it's writer. @JW Insider Quote ' Responding to the Australia trek...' But all things are possible with God. Imagine if he had been the one that mentioned the Red Sea opening up, before it actually happened. Would you have laughed at it ? I think Arauna thought it through in a human way, but if God actually wanted it to happen then it would happen. (No i don't believe will, but in theory it could have) --------------- @Anna replied 'I guess the answer depends on what you interpret as damage. It's complicated because not everyone gets damaged by the same thing. It also depends on our ability to forgive.' Child Sexual Abuse damages more than just the victims. So does the Shunning procedure. Even the Blood issues. It brings as back to Collateral Damage, which Americans are all to familiar with.

@JW Insider There are things in the NWT that I'm not too keen on, but detail would only cause controversy. And ye olde King James is a bit past it's best. A Hebrew to English translation would be helpful to me I think. And possibly a different Greek to English also. I have the Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures. I actually find some 'differences' in this to the NWT. Yes, I will have to do some research, but I was asking for advice as to which might be the most helpful to me. When you say you like the 'original' NWT, how far back are you going ? What colour is it ? I use the grey 2013 at the moment but I also have a black one that says 'Revised 1971 C. E. New Edition of 1981' (?) . Was there a green one much earlier ?

hours ago, 4Jah2me said: I meant it exactly in the ways that the Bible uses the word "episkopos" which literally means overseer. It can be used of elders who oversee a congregation. Perhaps the needs of all the congregations in Achaia or Galatia, for example, would have needed an overseer of several congregations, much like a "circuit overseer." Titus, for example, had to qualify as an overseer of elders and overseers in city after city: A Circuit Overseer and / or Elder does oversee, but under the rules of the GB. I think you were referring to the GB themselves, hence I asked for your further explanation of the word Overseer regarding the GB.. The CO and Elders do not make the rules, whereas the GB do. The CO and Elders do not govern, whereas the GB do. Who do you think appoints the members of the GB to their positions ?

I am wondering if anyone would have a suggestion of a good / different Bible translation please ? I use the New World Translation and also the old King James in paper format and I'm wondering if there is any other that is straight forward and reasonable in it's correctness. I don't like reading the Bible online although it is convenient. It just doesn't feel right to me. I do think it is good to compare translations though. Any thoughts ?

Billy the Kid. CC. Quote "Once again, show me where Jesus obligated the apostles to receive higher education to gain spiritual knowledge?" Totally different situation in 1st century. And Jesus supplied much for the Apostles. When people advise against higher education it kind of reminds me of the scripture about saying 'keep warm and be well fed' but doing nothing to help in that respect. Here in England most industry has gone. Most jobs are either retail or office. Then there are the high tech jobs. For many jobs qualifications are needed. The responsibility of the family head is to supply not only spiritual food but physical food. We know the 'bits of paper' are quite useless but many employers require them or you won't even get an interview. By the way the Apostle Paul was basically saying there is a time for using education and a time for just being spiritual. As for your idea of disloyalty to God. You seem to be getting your GB mixed up with the real GOD.

Do you think there will be a big influx of people ? I can't remember properly but i thought there was supposed to be a big influx before Armageddon . I hope that all of you in America are safe from this disruption and safe from the Covid-19.

Quote TTH. He is the worst enemy of blacks because they will take the hit for his misdeeds It doesn't seem to be about black people, it seems to be about all working class / lower class Americans. Have you taken sides with the Police on this issue then ? 'We are no part of the world' remember. Jesus wasn't interested in politics or protests of His time. We all know that only God through Christ will remove this 'world' and solve the Earth's problems. However it is a shame that so many people Earthwide are suffering in so many ways.

And how am I both hateful and stupid My Harley ? Is it because I find you very funny. Is it because i do not take your comments seriously ? I wouldn't have thought it would bother you in the slightest.

Mr Harley seems to be saying that the GB hide the CSA accusations so as not to tarnish the reputation of the CCJW. Some of us have been saying that for years now. Has Mr Harley finally woken up ? The point being Mr Harley that the GB and it's Lawyers are still hiding that 23 year Database of CSA accusations, and therefore those paedophiles are still lose in the communities. As a side note I still cannot understand how Australia Bethel had CSA reports going back 50 years, but America Bethel only has then going back 23 years. But hey it wasn't me that started mentioning CSA this time, Tom.

@JW Insider Quote. I can't see why anyone would complain that a group of elders could be seen to be qualified for such a position of overseeing multiple congregations in the same way that some committees of elders qualify for a position to oversee a single congregation. Please explain or enlarge upon your use of the word 'overseeing' here. Quote, " The ones who excel at teaching, and speaking, and decision-making will naturally take the lead for such a useful position. " No mention of excelling in spirituality then ? You talk as if it's running a worldly business. Quote, " And you are right, that taking the lead in spearheading a more efficient world-wide preaching, teaching, and disciple-making work can make use of skills that only a few would qualify for." Only a few Americans it seems.. It also seems that other Anointed from around the Earth may not be given the chance. Since the rest of the Anointed are seen as less important now. Quote " So, the idea that a committee of elders can qualify for such work as the GB have taken on, shows that they are desirous of a fine work " Or that they want the power over others and the human glory for themselves. Television stars as they are now. Quote " Hebrews 13:7) 7 Remember those who are taking the lead among you, who have spoken the word of God to you, and as you contemplate how their conduct turns out, imitate their faith. " Any religion that uses the bible could quote this scripture. It is only of good use if used to mean God's true servants. In the 1st century Christian congregations, before apostates spoilt true worship, that scripture had real meaning. And then you finish up with " we find that we should be able, as you said, to identify WHO really is a faithful person taking the lead " But can we ? We know who is taking the lead, but you said 'who really is a faithful person, taking the lead'..... I find it kind of funny, just my British sense of humour, that you JWI, sometimes write as a true thoughtful person, but other times write as a JW.

@Arauna Firstly. Quote :- So the man who says the GB are dictators now wishes to interpret this word as a single person Are you getting @Srecko Sostar mixed up with me ? (note this is a question) It's me that calls the GB dictators. Do they not dictate to the congregants ? Make rules and give orders. Secondly. Quote:- now wishes to interpret this word as a single person who will be giving all his fellow slaves food at proper time. Srecko asked it as a question, not a statement. So the idea of 'now wishes to interpret' is false. Please do not become like Mr Harley, who twists things to his own advantage. Thirdly. :- Since many of our teachings have changed...... why hang onto the past? 'By their works you will know them'. Works, references. Do you trust people that you do not know and that you know nothing about ? Surely if a family was thinking about joining the CCJW it would be wise for them to do some research into the background of this religion. Therefore the past would be relevant. Fourthly. Quote :- We have enough detractors or hate-OCDs to keep referring to our past.... I notice that you cannot keep away from those three letters. Fifth. Quote :- For this one needs a central dispensary which is efficient and quick! The last information I had was that the magazines are printed in Germany. (If my info is correct) So not exactly central to where the information comes from. Sixth. Quote :- Jehovah used a nation in time of Israel. He used congregations under direction of apostles and elders in time of the first spread of christianity and now has a world-wide nation kept together by the same teachings. Please note that the Apostle Paul was NOT one of those in Jerusalem, not one of the 12. BUT God used PAUL to write the letters to the congregations. Jesus guided Paul directly, not through any organisation. And, I'm not saying that an organisation is wrong, but it has to be run properly. Have a good day. Sorry this is so long.

A quote from C. C. / Billy the Kid. " Funny, Harper Collins published the Satanic bible, while Zondervan published gay sex. When has the Watchtower published something like that. " Um, maybe when they did Pillowgate, and two men masterbating sitting opposite each other, not being porneia

@Arauna I know nothing about the pyramids but :- One doesn't need to go back 150 years to find fault in the CCJW teachings. In the 1960's / 70's they were teaching the 6 x 7000 year creative days, and the end of 6000 years of God's rest day. Now they admit to not knowing how long a Creative day was. And @JW Insider you bring up the same old same old :- Is there a a religion that teaches straightforward doctrines that set us apart from the world in general? And sets us apart as dedicated to God? Read above, there is one proof that the CCJW does not teach straight forward doctrines. The doctrines keep changing. (1975, blood issue, Superior authorities, to name but a few) Does it focus on high moral standards so that I can generally expect the persons I associate with to have the same moral outlook as I do? This one goes without saying. Why even pretend that the morality of the CCJW is any better than the rest of the world ? (The excuse on this forum is that CSA happens everywhere, so then what makes the CCJW moral standards any higher ? I've also been hearing about more divorces in the CCJW here in UK. ) This why I laugh at comments on here. So much pretence.

@TrueTomHarley quote :- "The fat lady may not be singing just yet, but she is seriously clearing her throat. We can’t wait too much longer for the ‘true anointed’ to manifest itself out of nowhere." https://jwsurvey.org/mobile/cedars-blog/governing-body-says-we-are-the-faithful-and-discreet-slave/comment-page-9 Reports are emerging of an announcement at the 128th Annual Meeting of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania that the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses now considers itself to be the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class of Matthew 24:45 in its entirety. Previously it was understood that the Governing Body were merely humble “representatives” of the “Slave Class”, which comprised the 12,000 or more anointed remnant of Christians with a heavenly calling still on earth. Despite claiming to be “representatives” of this group of people, suspicions were raised in the minds of many thinking Witnesses after reading articles such as the Questions From Readers of the August 15th 2011 Watchtower, where it was admitted that the Governing Body has no actual communication with memorial partakers (the “anointed”) and even feels that some of these ones may be mentally imbalanced. (see w11 8/15 p. 22) Just to show people that the GB made themselves the F&DS in 2012 /2013 So it is possible that the present GB could be removed, and a new 'body of servants' replace them. Armageddon is not coming tomorrow. Any sensible thinking person will know that. @Arauna has made suggestions as to worldly actions by governments, but this will take time. Plus, I honestly think that there will be a massive ingathering before Armageddon. God does not wish for any to die, but for all to gain 'life'. My Harley loves words because he is a writer of books. Hence he makes comments to mislead people. Take this as example :- " We can’t wait too much longer for the ‘true anointed’ to manifest itself out of nowhere." Now compare this as I've quoted from above :- Previously it was understood that the Governing Body were merely humble “representatives” of the “Slave Class”, which comprised the 12,000 or more anointed remnant of Christians with a heavenly calling still on earth. That was written in 2012. But there are probably still a large number of Anointed here on earth. So, they would not have to 'manifest themselves out of nowhere', because they are already here. Some of those may not even be JWs.

@John Houston Quote 'Those 8 men lead, guide us on a path none here could, nor anyone one else could,...' Do you think you have proof of this ? And quote " the merchandise has not been damaged beyond repair." Some of it has actually. Many have been stumbled, some have committed suicide, many have turned away from God because of mistreated by the CCJW. Do you believe that collateral damage is ok then ? Do you just think in numbers, not people ?

@Srecko Sostar Yes it all becomes blurred. Recommendations, Rules, Guidance, Doctrines. It does not eave much room for a Christian conscience. And then the GB or others at the'top' change the 'rules', guidance, doctrines. The beard thing is one. The Blood issue is another. There is a rule ( here in UK ) that a brother cannot go on the platform without wearing a shirt and neck tie and a jacket. One elder I would see on the platform had a big electric fan working all the time he was on the platform. But, when he was on the door to door ministry he would wear an open neck shirt and no jacket. It seems he has since been moved to a different congregation. I personally do not like to see people being 'Westernised' but in most countries now the brothers wear shirts and ties. In my opinion it makes the CCJW look like an 'American religion', whereas it is supposed to be God's 'earthly' organisation ruled over by Christ. My opinion about 'doctrine' is that it should be the 'spiritual things'. Truth taught from God's written word. Therefore things believed and lived by. Rules are more a basic requirement and scripture should not be used. For instance, if the Org say that brothers have to wear a suit and tie to meetings, that is a rule. It has no scriptural backing. Scripture should not be used as an excuse to enforce man made rules. But i think there should be a rule book available for a Bible Study person to read before baptism. Congregants actually know very little about the rules of the CCJW, and the baptism is 'into' the Organisation, like signing a contract. Srecko I agree with what you say about doctrine in JW org. It has been brought down to a low level and as you say, it is changed when they feel like changing it.

https://www.rym.org/bible-studies_1/posts/bible-101-learning-loving-living-gods-word Have a nice day.

Tom you must be very sad to be so bitter and sarcastic.

That, among other things, make me believe how organization is not precondition for following Jesus. I don't see problem with "organization/organizing" as way for accomplish some task. @Srecko Sostar In my opinion, The Organisation of CCJW is not a precondition for serving God through Jesus. But as you say organisation is good for accomplishing tasks. So there has to be a balance. Do we really need to believe and accept how earthly organization is really only and best what God have, to be able to gather people who will follow Jesus? As you mentioned, the Nation of Israel was the first way that God organised humans. But I think it's purpose was to bring Jesus to 'earth' through that line (King David). The 1st century Christians were organised by Jesus. Sent out in two's etc and the forming of congregations. But God / Jesus used the Apostle Paul to write the letters to those congregations, not the 12 Apostles. So in my opinion there was NO 1st century GB. However it would make sense to have some form of organised Organisation to preach the 'Good News' earthwide. As you said, to accomplish some task. But it needs to be organised into sections / departments. Spiritual things need to be separate from material things. And the spiritual things must have the inspiration of God's Holy Spirit, otherwise we end up with the situation we have with the GB, false prophecy. Hence i believe there will be a true Anointed group of people earthwide to lead God's people. I don't think they need to be all gathered in one building or in one country. We have this wonderful internet system we are using, and the Anointed could use it to communicate this way around the Earth. Each of the Anointed would understand situations in their own country. So it might be possible for each Anointed to apply different 'rules or restrictions' relating to their own country. (The men having a beard thing, might be a silly example, but in some countries it might have been offensive, in other countries it was no problem, so each Anointed in their own country would have known if it was a serious problem or not). Some things do not affect one's service to God through Christ, they are a matter of conscience. Those things should be left to conscience and no rules made. The preaching work could be organised by the Anointed in their own country. I don't think they need so much literature / books as they print. Surely a good Christian should only need the Bible. ( The Apostles only had the Hebrew writings ). I think it could all be so much simpler. Meetings could be purely to give praise to God, not to study the ideas of men through a magazine. I also think that a true organisation would be more loving and show mercy, not only to it's members, but also to those in need local to them. Although Jesus had two main purposes to fulfil, to teach the Jews and try to bring them back to God, and, to give his life on behalf of others, He also spent a while being kind and helpful to others. So an organisation yes, but one run totally different to the way the CCJW is run now.... .

Mr Harley you are a joke. You are a writer of course, so you love having a wild imagination. And you also love being heard, even when you have nothing worthwhile to contribute. So be it, if it makes you happy, but it also makes you look so immature. Now concerning @Arauna I am not a fan of her OCD comments that is true. But, when she (or anyone) writes something sensible then it will get the thumbs up from me. As for me, I am not wanting Arauna's 'direction', I simply ask her a question so that she could enlarge on what she had already written. This seems to have cause Mr Harley a problem, Perhaps he wants attention from someone. @TrueTomHarley I am not interested whether you understand me or not. In fact I don't expect you to understand me, as I think spiritual thoughts not worldly ones. Whereas you are only here for material for your books it seems. The storm that is coming will affect all those living in those days, but not yet, Tom not yet. 9 years.

Revelation 13 v 16 through 18 It puts under compulsion all people—the small and the great, the rich and the poor, the free and the slaves—that these should be marked on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 and that nobody can buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name. 18 This is where it calls for wisdom: Let the one who has insight calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is a man’s number, and its number is 666. @Arauna I think what you have written is very sensible and plausible. How long do you think it would take for all this to happen ? I was taught that Babylon the Great, the 'world empire of false religion' has to be destroyed before Armageddon. And I would presume that conditions the whole Earth over would need to be bad. However the scriptures talk about it being 'just as in the days of Noah', eating and drinking etc..... Something which i mentioned to my wife, and that someone else later mentioned to me, is that, here in the UK at least, there is talk about getting rid of 'real money', just using electronic transfer. This idea makes me feel uneasy as it gives 'them' more control. A government could just freeze a persons bank accounts and basically remove all identity of a person's existence. But my question to you Aurana is how long do you think this will all take ? Because God's servants need to increase in their faith and strength, and 'God's organisation' would need to be more united.

Matthew 19 v 26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

When the true Anointed appear then yes. Either God through Christ will clean out the CCJW, or God through Christ will form a new 'religion'. I hate the word religion, but it's what people use. But the true Inspired Anointed must appear first. In my opinion God cannot use the CCJW as it is. The Child Sexual Abuse problem is still not properly sorted out. The Shunning policy is totally wrong. This threat of being in the 'Final part of the Final days' is horrible and suggests that Christ is delaying his arrival.. The lie that one has to be a baptised JW to be 'saved' at Armageddon is wrong. The GB setting themselves up as the F&DS and saying that all the other Anointed are NOT, is just those 8 men exalting themselves. Luke 14 v 11. So if God and/or Christ is wanting to use the CCJW, the Org will need a good clean out first. For my part I do hope that the CCJW is cleaned out and turned to pure worship. But the GB would have to be replaced to do that. They could maybe step down and repent, I don't know.. That is between them and God or Christ..