Patiently waiting for Truth

@JW Insider I knew I should try to keep religion completely out of this It is impossible to 'keep religion out of this'. You are talking about worldly events / happenings which are controlled by the Devil. Unless you think otherwise. And those people you mentioned from Bible times, they were inspired of God's Holy Spirit. Are you ?

@Space Merchant It's kind of simple really. If you believe that the CCJW / JW Org have got it all right and true, you would be one of them. If you believe that you have to be a JW to survive Armageddon (as they believe and teach) you would be one of them. But you obviously believe that the type of Unitarianism you are part of is true and right. Therefore you seem to be saying that the JWs have not got it all right. Or do you want one foot in each camp ? What i call sitting on the fence.

The 'teaching' in the JW religion (1960's & 70's) used to be that the Elders would be Princes here on the Earth in the 'new 'world'. So they taught that the 144,000 would be up in heaven and the Elders would be in charge here on Earth. It seemed not to be mentioned from then onward but I think the Elders do 'fancy themselves' as princes though. I am not going to get into debate with SM about Strong's etc. My point was the CCJW / JW Org / Watchtower, printed quite plainly in their Interlinear Translation that it says 'on the earth', but then they print in the NWT 'over the earth' So they have written both themselves. Only one can be right. If the true translation from the GREEK is 'on the earth' then that is what is should be in the NWT. The question is, Is anyone actually being guided by God's Holy Spirit to write TRUTH ? Is Strong's guided by Holy Spirit ?

I have asked him before and not got a direct answer.

Quote @TrueTomHarley When push comes to shove, all is a manifestation of the whole world lying in the power of the you-know-who. Something we can all agree on Tom.

Quote @TrueTomHarley That’s how I feel about 4Jah, who posts one of my favorite groups of all time. I love The Who. But if he posts it, you just know that he will screw it up. That is simply because, though pretending that you are a 'true' Christian, you have developed a deep dislike for me almost to the point of hatred. How many times should one forgive ? But I'm not a brother JW so I presume you think it is ok to feel this way against me.

@TrueTomHarley Good olde Tom. A little perspective then. We have an infestation of rats in both our front garden and rear garden. We are having great fun in 'culling' them. So removing rats is an important issue to me in a practical way, Obama isn't an important issue to me . Also, debating scripture and meanings of same are important to me in a spiritual way, Obama isn't important to me. And BLM protests are not important to me as I know it's all part of the Devil's system, not God's. Not long ago it was Extinction Rebellion protests.

Wow, um, no part of the world. I would think it's all driven by the Devil and the demons and best left alone. We, that is people with knowledge of God and His written word, and wisdom from above, know only too well that man's inhumanity to man will continue up until Armageddon. The only one question I've been asking (as a person with no political knowledge) is, How did Obama make it up to President ? If racism is that strong then how did he climb the long ladder of 'success' ? The answer is not important to me, but just curious. You will know that the protests have caused havoc here in England too. And will it contribute to the larger spread of Covid-19 ?

My Generation.

I'm glad 1914 and the generation do not really matter, because this is becoming a farce.

Billy the Kid = CC goes on and on like a parrot saying the same things over and over, trying to convince himself that he is right. And he drags it back a hundred years into the Bible Student era, which @Arauna is opposed to. But then @Arauna drags it back even further to the Sanhedrin.......... To prove what ? With all your burblings and pretence of a governing body in the first century, the truth is that it was the Apostle Paul that took the 'word' to the nations, AND it was the Apostle Paul that wrote the Letters to the Congregations. And he didn't go up to Jerusalem for the first THREE years of his ministry. So he was not influenced by any human 'governing body' at all. Paul received his direction directly from the resurrected Jesus Christ. True servants of God do not want independence from God, they want to serve God through Christ. So this stupid idea of 'you have to be a JW to serve God' is hogwash at the moment. Maybe in the future when that organisation is cleaned out then God through Christ may use it, but not right now. Maybe the GB are being examined by Christ, as Christ has the authority to judge them. Maybe Christ will replace the GB and clean the org' to make it clean and usable. Arauna and others seems to think that the CCJW / GB / Watchtower 'created' the core scriptures and beliefs. Please don't be so puffed up, those scriptures were written long before the Org ever existed AND others believed those scriptures before. And even now others outside of the CCJW believe such things. I think @Space Merchant is proof of this point. So please don't pretend that only JWs have these beliefs.

CCJW. Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the GREEK Scriptures. Revelation 5 v 10. From the Greek it reads ..... and they are reigning upon the earth. But in the NWT it reads ........ and they are to rule as kings over the earth. In most translations I have looked at it reads as : 'on the earth'. Why do the GB / Writing Dept translate it as Over the earth ?

I am already no part of the present CCJW. I am hoping that the present GB will be removed or will stand down. I also believe that a True Anointed will be put in place, either in the CCJW or to start up a new organisation. I believe that I will be dead before Armageddon arrives. I think it will be at least another 9 years before the final Judgement.. If cancer doesn't take me then I think some other ailment / heart attack will . I have no fear of death because I have the hope of the resurrection. Conditions in the 'world' are getting worse, but they have been for a long long time. (1967 Watchtower) I think million of people will survive the next 9 years, so I think there will be 'enough' people for Christ and the angels to judge. I also think there are many scriptures to be fulfilled before Judgement Day. My feeling is that Jesus Christ died to stay loyal / faithful to God, and for His Bride, the Anointed. I believe that Christ's ransom sacrifice doesn't yet cover the Earthly Class, but will only do so after the final testing at the end of the 1,000 years reign of Christ. If Armageddon came tomorrow I believe that the Judgement would be for each of us as individuals. It matters not if we are JWs or not. God and Christ know more about us than we know about ourselves. Therefore our judgement of ourselves is of little use. As for the GB, I would hope that Christ would make it clear to honest hearted people that the GB are not the ones to be served. I hope that each person would have a close enough relationship with God through Christ to be able to be alone as a human but guided and comforted by holy spirit when it matters.

Quote @JW Insider " I have a feeling, of course, that you are waiting to pounce on something I said or perhaps mis-worded above. " No I'm not wanting to pounce and thank you it was good information. I only mentioned you in relation to that 1967 Watchtower magazine about the 'Last day of the last days, in fact the last part of that last day'... ( my post 7 hours ago ) And I related it to keeping the congregants busy, as the time was, so say. very urgent..... I wish every comment had a number so that i could refer to comment number ..... And i wish I could 'jump to' the comment I'm looking for

Can I show you a misquote by TOM HARLEY about me. Such sly tactics. I would ask all JWs this. Is there a written list of CCJW core teachings, because it seems a phrase that is being 'banded about' here ? ....Such as : No beards. Must wear a tie and jacket. Whereas I actually wrote (but JWI will probably remove this because he has the power to do so ) I would ask all JWs this. Is there a written list of CCJW core teachings, because it seems a phrase that is being 'banded about' here ? (Note the end of paragraph here ) (And different subject below) And I would love to see a written list of rules past and present too. Such as : No beards. Must wear a tie and jacket. A brother and a sister should not spend time together when no one else is present. A brother and a sister are not allowed to stay the night in the same house. (but probably two brothers can or two sisters, because the GB don't want to think in that direction. Tom is implying that I don't know doctrines from rules. It shows the JW training you have Tom. Very sad.

There is no spiritual paradise because the food is partially false. The congregations are dangerous places due to Child Sexual Abuse and other problems. There is actually disunity inside of congregations but the Elders try to keep it hidden. I do know that some JWs even take other JWs to 'worldly' courts here in England, one dispute ongoing now is over the ownership of a house that was inherited. And i also know of many cases of adultery and divorce. Woe to any man that enters a KH if he has a good looking wife. ( I am given information that of course i should not have ) Remember Jesus accused the Pharisees of washing the outside of the bowl or dish, to make it appear clean. That is what JWs do with the congregations. They tell the people to dress up smart and have clean cars, they keep the KHs looking tidy with neat gardens. An outward appearance of being respectable and 'clean'. But not so spiritually.

@Arauna I don't think I go back as far as Russell etc, but i do go back the 1960's. That is because it was when I was being taught the 'truth' by JW's. However the 'truth' that I was being taught turned out to be false. So I can base my findings on Facts because I know the situation. And that magazine from 1967 shows how false it was back then. 'The last day of the last days, in fact the last part of the last day' (Not an exact quote but near enough to make the point) I do remember @JW Insider saying something like (and I know I will be told he didn't) 'The GB or leaders need to keep saying things to keep the congregants on their toes and keep them busy' (Not a direct quote but the idea is close enough) I would ask all JWs this. Is there a written list of CCJW core teachings, because it seems a phrase that is being 'banded about' here ? And I would love to see a written list of rules past and present too. Such as : No beards. Must wear a tie and jacket. A brother and a sister should not spend time together when no one else is present. A brother and a sister are not allowed to stay the night in the same house. (but probably two brothers can or two sisters, because the GB don't want to think in that direction). As for the world wide preaching work. How many so called Christian religions are Earth wide ? Lots of them. How many of them produce their own Bible ? Quite a few of them. Back in the early 1960's there were Christian Union people that would do 'ministry work' around the streets here in England. What the CCJW do is not new. The Mormons were / are doing it too. IF the CCJW message in false then they are no better than the others. There is a scripture 2 Peter 3 v 4 :- Berean Study Bible“Where is the promise of His coming?” they will ask. “Ever since our fathers fell asleep, everything continues as it has from the beginning of creation.” BUT the JW Organisation made this promise in 1967 as I've written above. So that makes the Org guilty of stumbling people...... Have an honest think about it.

Yes @Arauna I can agree with you up to a point about not going that far back but the God's Kingdom Rules book didn't help did it ? (I'm looking at my copy now) Printed in 2014, that's not that long ago is it ? The very first double inner pages. Quote :- "Picture yourself as a member of the Brooklyn Bethel family on Friday morning of October 2, 1914".......... And it continues to go on about C. T. Russel. And a big picture of same.... A lot of that book was about the history of the Organisation that far back. So it seems it was important to the GB to 'talk about it'. Hence others talk about it too. Your last paragraph is a minefield if you don't mind me saying so. It's like having a really beautiful car that looks lovely and is so comfortable, but the engine is faulty and unreliable. The CCJW has lots of very good points, but it's 'engine' is faulty and unreliable. And I was saying that long before that man and his book were being mentioned on here.

It is very important to know the history (including any false claims and false prophecies made) of the CCJW as @Srecko Sostar shows. Quote "Also, think, it is important to know the history of the organization to which someone belongs as an active member, as a person who dedicates his life to the goals of that same organization." One big reason is this :- The second question for Baptism ; Do you understand that your baptism indentifies you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with Jehovah's organisation ? So what intelligent person would hand themselves over to an Organisation that they knew nothing about ? It is easy to be deceived because the 'boots on the ground' JWs seem so pleasant. And the so called Bible Studies, are not such, but they are a book study with some reference to scripture.

@JW Insider said " Why do we think it is important to keep repeating this? Especially if it is a falsehood? What does this particular falsehood do for us now? Was this falsehood an honest mistake? Was it an unverified repetition of something someone else said? " Is this therefore the Traditions of Men ? Being taught in your 'truth' ful organisation.

@Space Merchant Yes, me being white and living here in England I have no real idea of how people of other colours feel or how they are treated in other countries. I do see some horrendous things on news articles but I never know what is true or what has been set up. I dislike protests of any sort for any reason. I think they are very negative. I suppose too many people act on their emotions and do not put thought into their actions. As for BLM, I can believe what you say. They probably started off with good intentions but have gone astray. But like most people, they put their trust in humans not in God. I do wish that God's name would soon be sanctified and that HIS will would soon take place here on Earth as it is in heaven.

Quote @Arauna They never followed jehovah from free will in the first place. Following God through Christ is very different to following the CCJW through the GB and Elders. But you will never see this, hence i say you are blind because you will not even consider it as possible.

That depends if you believe the virus is real or not.

@Arauna " Since we are Bible students and have a PERSONAL relationship with Jehovah and keep improving our BIBLE knowledge, " Yes and we can do this without being a JW. You said it is a personal relationship, and it is not an 'organisational' one. Quote Arauna. "I look at the bible and see some kind of central body in the first century. " Whereas I look at the Bible and see that Jesus personally guided the Apostle Paul to write the letters to the Congregations. Paul didn't even bother to visit the 'central body' for the first three years of his ministry. Paul definitely had a very personal relationship with God through Christ. It did not involve going through anyone else. Quote Arauna "I do not need any person to tell me" Ah but you do have people telling you. You have your GB through the Writing Dept, and through your Elders. They tell you what they want you to believe. Quote Arauna "I actually feel sorry for the professor Feruli- to have served jehovah so long and faithfully and now in old age succumb to the plague of mankind.... I actually feel sorry for anyone that cannot see the faults in the GB and the CCJW. It's not about deliberately looking for faults, but it is about knowing what you are part of, and then using your Christian conscience to guide you as to whether it is right to remain part of it.

Jesus himself said he did not speak from his own initiative, but only what the Father had taught him, or told him to say. The GB must speak from their own initiative as they are not guided by God's holy Spirit. The things Jesus taught came true or are still coming true. The things that the leaders of CCJW have taught over the many years have not come true and have proved to be false.