Patiently waiting for Truth

@Arauna JW's don't use Yahweh's name either. Remember it is YHWH. Do you really think that God used the name Jehovah for himself ? Even the organisation that you follow say that 'it is probably Yahweh'.

I don't see much love for those that JWs consider their 'enemies' on here

One other thing i find funny is when people on here try hard to relate the GB to Bible characters. The Bible characters were inspired by God's Holy Spirit. the GB are neither inspired or guided by God's Holy Spirit. Yes the GB 'know the scriptures' but so does the Pope and many other people. List of Christian theologians 21st century[edit] William J. Abraham (born 1947) Marilyn McCord Adams (1943–2017) James Alison (born 1959) Marcella Althaus-Reid (1952–2009) Thomas J. J. Altizer (1927–2018) Rubem Alves (1933–2014) Yves-Marie Adeline (born 1960) John Ankerberg (born 1945) Robert Arp (born 1970) Tina Beattie (born 1955) Joel R. Beeke (born 1952) Alistair Begg (born 1952) Thomas Berry (1914–2009) Craig Blomberg (born 1955) Marie-Émile Boismard (1916–2004) Joseph A. Bracken (born 1930) Leonardo Boff (born 1938) Marcus Borg (1942–2015) Gregory Boyd (born 1957) David Brown (born 1948) Michael L. Brown (born 1955) Walter Brueggemann (born 1933) Don Carson (born 1946) Edmund Clowney (1917–2005) David J. A. Clines (born 1938) John B. Cobb (born 1925) Gareth Lee Cockerill (born 1944) James Hal Cone (1938–2018) Paul Copan (born 1962) Jack Cottrell (born 1938) William Lane Craig (born 1949) Charles E. Curran (born 1934) Gavin D'Costa (born 1958) Mary Daly (1928–2010) Marva Dawn (born 1948) Mark Dever (born 1960) Kwesi Dickson (1929–2005) Keith Drury (born 1945) James Dunn (born 1939) Avery Dulles (1918–2008) Peter Enns (born 1961) Ronald M. Enroth (born 1938) Millard Erickson (born 1932) Gordon Fee (born 1934) Sinclair Ferguson (born 1948) Roger T Forster (born 1933) John Frame (born 1939) Robert A. J. Gagnon (born 1958) James Leo Garrett Jr. (born 1925) Norman Geisler (1932–2019) Chris Glaser (born 1950) Justo Gonzalez (born 1937) Bob Goss (born 1948) Joel B. Green (born 1956) Stanley Grenz (1950–2005) Douglas Groothuis (born 1957) Wayne Grudem (born 1948) Gustavo Gutiérrez (born 1928) Fritz Guy (born 1930) Gary Habermas (born 1950) Scott Hahn (born 1957) Catharina Halkes (1920–2011) David Bentley Hart (born 1965) Stanley Hauerwas (born 1940) Carl F. H. Henry (1913–2003) Michael Horton (born 1964) Kent Hovind (born 1953) Robert Jenson (1930–2017) Elizabeth Johnson (born 1941) Scott J. Jones (born 1954) Musimbi Kanyoro (born 1953) Catherine Keller (born 1953) Timothy J. Keller (born 1950) Craig S. Keener (born 1960) Hans Küng (born 1928) Ulrich L. Lehner (born 1976) John Lennox (born 1943) Erwin Lutzer (born 1941) John F. MacArthur (born 1939) Marcel V. Măcelaru (born 1970) Randy L. Maddox (born 1953) I. Howard Marshall (1934–2015) John S Mbiti (1931–2019) Alister McGrath (born 1953) Scotty McLennan (born 1948) J.P. Moreland (born 1948) R. Albert Mohler Jr. (born 1959) Jesse Mugambi (born 1947) Daniela Müller (born 1957) George Newlands (born 1941) Michael Novak (1933-2017) Thomas C. Oden (1931–2016) Mercy Oduyoye (born 1934) Roger E. Olson (born 1952) Thomas Jay Oord (born 1965) Eugene Peterson (1932–2018) Clark Pinnock (1937–2010) John Piper (born 1946) Alvin Plantinga (born 1932) Michael Plekon (born 1948) John Polkinghorne (born 1930) Vern Poythress (born 1946) Andrew Purves Robert L. Reymond (1932–2013) Adrian Rogers (1931–2005) Charles Ryrie (1925–2016) Lamin Sanneh (1942–2019) Ken Schenck (born 1966) Edward Schillebeeckx (1914–2009) John Shelby Spong (born 1931) R. C. Sproul (1939–2017) R.C. Sproul, Jr. (born 1965) Charles Stanley (born 1932) Douglas Stuart (born 1943) Elizabeth Stuart (born 1963) Timothy Tennent (born 1959) Carsten Peter Thiede (1952–2004) Anthony Thiselton (born 1937) Stephen Tong (born 1940) Seung-Moo Ha (born 1964) Kevin J. Vanhoozer (born 1957) Miroslav Volf (born 1956) Daniel B. Wallace (born 1952) John Walvoord (1910–2002) Graham Ward (born 1955) Keith Ward (born 1938) Paul Washer (born 1961) Dallas Willard (1935–2013) J. Rodman Williams (1918–2008) Rowan Williams (born 1950) William Willimon (born 1946) Nancy Wilson (born 1950) Ben Witherington (born 1951) Karol Wojtyła (Pope John Paul II) (1920–2005) N. T. Wright (born 1948) Ravi Zacharias (1946–2020) John Zizioulas (born 1931) You see, quite a lot of people know the Bible / Scriptures. TTH says " They (the GB) want to do the biblically supported role of herding sheep. They don’t want to be overbearing, but at the same time they don’t want to be so loose and vague that they find themselves herding cats. Tom, many of us know what the GB are herding, and it isn't nice.

I want to relate something here which my wife and I found interesting. I have just been sat at our kitchen table with my wife and our son. My son went out yesterday and met up with a friend and they were talking about families and household situations. Who is speaking to whom and who isn't etc. My son happened to mention that I am an ex JW and therefore many people will not talk to me. He didn't mention anything else. His friend then mentioned this BOOK and mentioned the ARC and CSA. His friend knew all the abreviations and what they meant. Now I found that interesting because my son is not really interested in it, only in as much as it involves our close family. But his friend watches videos and reads news articles all about the situation and knew a lot about it. His friend is not a JW and not an ex JW, he just has an interest in things going on in the world. Now Arauna does this as do many JWs. They keep on the watch. And this young man seems to be doing likewise. BUT, if a JW should knock at his door, i do wonder what his reaction will be. It brought out to me, that people 'in the world' are aware of the 'problems' in the CCJW, and those 'problems' will of course cause a stumbling block to many. Yes JWs may go from door to door preaching, but do those same JWs realise how much information the public already has. A, it will cause people not to listen to the 'message' and B, it could cause abuse towards the JWs knocking on doors.

It will be continually repeated again and again, until God works through Christ and the True Anointed to cleanse the CCJW. And until the GB are replaced by those True Anointed to serve God properly. All this will take place through God's Holy Spirit, NOT through ordinary men. Do you people think that God stopped performing miracles forever ? Do you think Christ will not battle with the devil and demons that are at work in the CCJW. The other option is for a new way of serving God to appear by Holy Spirit. As @Witness has said time and time again, the Temple is the living stones, the true Anointed, the Body of Christ. So how can the GB working through the Elders, tread them down as they do ?

@César Chávez Billy the Kid and whatever other titles you use. Quote "Learn to separate your arguments between church and state. I believe your age demands it." My reply is quite simple to you.... Learn to separate God from the CCJW. Because right now God and Christ are not working through the CCJW / Watchtower, that has been proven. God and Christ do not tell lies or cause suffering. The CCJW do both. I quote you "Young Timothy said it best, reprove those that oppose them" I believe the words were PAUL'S written to TIMOTHY. And i believe spiritual matters are of far greater importance than physical ones. You, and others, seem to think otherwise. @Arauna your accusations do not hurt. I expect accusations from 'opposers of the truth'. The truth hurts as you say. I just called you and Tom out for what you both are. Followers of the GB and the Org that are blind to truth. I quote you "I already carry a label: an obedient Jehovah's Witness." Whereas I would sooner be obedient to God through Christ. Quote " I only started calling out your -hate-OCD after seeing your repetitive behavior here on the forum as constant, " Please remember that Jesus had repetitive behavior of 'calling out' the Pharisees.

Is one group of sufferers more important than another group of sufferers, if the suffering of innocent people is cause by injustice ?

@JW Insider Sorry i totally disagree with your viewpoint. Quote : Some were probably cases of incest, and crimes of opportunity, where the children are no longer in danger after they leave the household. (And this is another reason why the WTS would want to protect the privacy of such a database.) The Earthwide Organisation isn't very consistent then is it ? Australia handed over the 50 years worth of information, it seems. The UK, after a court case I believe, handed over the information. BUT HQ America, the GB and their Lawyers, refuse to hand over the Database. They also refuse to apologise to those victims in Australia and to join the redress scheme. And I repeat that if Australia had 50 years of info', then America must also have 50 years of info'. Not just a pretend 20 year database. And if the info goes back that far (50 years) then GB members and Writing Department members could be on it. And maybe that is the reason the GB / Lawyers are hiding it all. And do you really think Almighty God gives Holy Spirit to those 8 men that are so mean and selfish. Hiding all that perverted information about thousands of paedophiles. And once again the physical man has to insult me. Quote "You moron, ................ What a hateful loon!" Mr Harley is obviously deeply hurt, and i forgive him his insults to me. Quote JWI "Even back in the early 1990's a brother in Writing who had worked in the Service Department for several years estimated (to me) that every congregation of 100 people has had at least one. (That's also 1%.)" A brother of that standing would not make a wild guess off the top of his head. He would have some knowledge to base it on. I would call that inside information. And TTH's idea that just because other religions, clubs etc, have a greater number of paedophiles, it is all ok for the CCJW to have thousands. What i cannot understand though is, if as TTH says, no one else kept any records, then how does anyone know exactly how many paedophiles / victims those other organisations had. How to you compare JW records with no records at all ?

@JW Insider Wow, 1 in 100. so that database that the GB / Lawyers are withholding is going to be massive. no wonder they are keeping it secret. Is there any update on this yet ? Fast Facts—United States of America https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/worldwide/US/ 1,237,054—Ministers who teach the Bible 12,594—Congregations 1 to 273—Ratio of Jehovah’s Witnesses to population My estimate Roughly 100 per congregation because some won't actually be preaching / reporting. So that brother in 'Writing / Service Department' had inside information. and he said EVERY congregation of 100 people has had at least one paedophile. So that gives us 12,594 Paedophiles in USA alone. And each paedophile abuses more than on child usually. Um, have the GB destroyed that Database ? And if Australia had records going back 50 years then USA would also have records going back 50 years. And Arauna wonders why people are concerned. And TTH just keeps cracking silly jokes and being sarcastic. Because to them it is just Collateral Damage.

@Arauna says "Less than .0001 percent of JWs are pedophiles and in most of these cases the victims did not have enough proof in front of elders... because it is a hidden crime. BUT, the organisation insisted on TWO WITNESSES. for what Arauna states is a HIDDEN CRIME Thank you Arauna. You admit it is a HIDDEN CRIME and it has been proven by child psychologists that children did not have enough knowledge of the subject to make those things up. BUT still the Org demanded TWO WITNESSES. The reason you think the % is so low is that most were never confirmed as paedophiles due to Elders not believing the child victims, or because the paedophile was an Elder being protected by other Elders. You seem very worried about money but it is merely a material possession. Jesus and His closest followers had no money, nor even a place to lay their heads. And Jesus told the 'rich man' to get rid of all his possessions to follow Christ. I am willing to walk away from everything that i own, to walk away in just the clothes I am wearing, to follow Christ, to serve God. I have that faith. That is why I am looking for truth. The CCJW cannot move forward as it is. It has to be cleansed of all it's immorality. Don't you understand, it has to STAND OUT as being the ONLY PURE WORSHIP....... At the moment it is just one more immoral religion no different to all the rest. How will people know if it is 'serving God properly', as it so unclean ? How will people see the difference ? Is there supposed to be a great influx of people before Armageddon ? Does Jesus, as the Good Shepherd, want to save those lost sheep ? Those that have been stumbled by the unjust deeds of the Organisation. I care not if you call me OCD. Why indeed should I care ? I wonder if the Pharisees would have called Jesus such ? I know in my heart that I'm seeking truth, and if the CCJW gains God's approval through Christ, then I will rejoin it, if that is God's will.

Quote @Arauna And how will you know it is not an imposter anointed group trying to take over in the congregation...… ever thought of that???? I take you a bet you have not thought of this because practical matters are not your forte.. Ye of little faith. I have said many times. " but the GB will be removed by God through Christ, or they will stand down when God's time is right for it to happen.." Arauna, you may be practical, but i would rather be spiritual. By their works you will know them. We've seen the works of the 'all American' GB. (7 out of 8). And all white GB (7 out of 8). Whereas the Organisation is Earth wide, of all nations and tribes. Imagine the Israelites saying to Moses 'What a dumbo leading us to the Red Sea, we got no chance of survival now'. FAITH in Almighty God through Jesus Christ. And it will come to pass. The GB will be removed and replaced. But @Witness says it much better than I can.

I wish more people would speak out against the GB, but the GB will be removed by God through Christ, or they will stand down when God's time is right for it to happen.. Egotism : The GB calling themselves the Faithful and Discreet Slave. The GB saying that only they, those 8 men, are that Slave, and that the other Anointed should not meet together for bible study etc, when those 8 men meet together all the time. The GB saying that 'God and Christ trusts them' and that therefore 'all JWs should trust them'. THAT is Egotism.

Quote @Arauna : Judgment mmmm…..going to deep as you cannot read hearts. @Arauna I'm only giving back on what I receive from Tom and for you. Tow writes : I wonder if the yo-yo has taken to plastering a ‘Question Authority’ bumper sticker on his Yugo. Probably not, because there is only one authority that he cares about—unless he has modified it to: “Question GB Authority.” This will cause all his neighbors to think he is nuts, but perhaps they already think it. You write : Some people do not even cooperate with others because they feel it encroaches on their autonomy...… those usually have a problem with all types of authority. Hmmmm. So, I see those comments as not being at all spiritual. And I repeat that i have never seen a spiritual comment from Tom. But no real harm done and no bad feelings felt for either of you. And yes my dislike is for the GB and for things i see as not being honest or not showing mercy or justice within the CCJW organisation. Jesus said we should love our enemies, but that is easier said than practiced.

For you Billy the Kid, there is no excuse.

Tom, that green soft top is much better than the thing i drive daily. I don't have a rag top right now, but if I sell the scooter I might well buy a Suzuki Vitara, 4x4, rag top. Great for using as photographers car when the weather is nice, and great for going out in the snow in winter.

The DS is a nice vehicle. They look lovely. You should have kept it....... I have 3 cars, 1 van, 1 motor scooter. I dare not show people the one i mainly drive, which is a 1961 car. My van is small and scruffy, like me . My wife has a 1970 Morris Minor, which lives in the car port and hardly ever sees daylight. She has a small blue car, a modern thing, which is her daily transport. The Motor Scooter is an LML, like a Vespa, but it is automatic. Hopefully it will be sold soon as I do not like it and do not use it.... Two of the cars are very cheap to run as they are MOT exempt (don't need to be examined for road safety) and are tax exempt (don't have to pay to use them on the roads). So it only cost money for insurance and fuel.... The thing with vehicles is this. If you treat a vehicle well and look after it, it will work well and not cause you any trouble. BUT, no matter how nicely you treat people you cannot be sure they will not cause you trouble. I much prefer vehicles ....

@TrueTomHarley thanks for another laugh. Life can be too serious but I always find you funny enough to laugh at. Even your 'serious' comments are funny. And the fact that Arauna creeps after you is also funny . Your sarcasm shows your insecurity of course, so is forgivable. As for my vehicles, we have five at the moment. All road legal and up and running. As a non alcohol drinker, non druggy, non smoker, and getting good pension, well the money has to go somewhere. The house is full of 'bygone and collectable' items, we are, yes, crazy folks. As for questioning authority, um, I think it is @Arauna and others that dig deep into different 'authorities' and governments around the globe. I just try to live quietly as 'no part of the world' and don't interfere with people around me. Not involved in voting, not involved in protests, not involved in conspiracy theories. Quote TTH : because there is only one authority that he cares about True, there is only one authority i care about. That is Almighty God's authority through Jesus Christ. One more funny thing Tom. That is, that you love to quote from 'men' but not from God's word. Like I've mentioned before, you are a physical man not a spiritual man. You have shown this in the way you have followed Arauna in this stupid authority quest you both seem to have. Aruana mentioned it for no apparent reason, then you follow on with it, once again for no apparent reason, unless you just want to keep Arauna happy .. How sweet

As far as using social media concerning CSA, i have warned many people about contact with Jehovah's Witnesses. I even have a FB page dedicated to such. I upload many articles straight from source. Of course i do not know the honesty or dishonesty of the articles, but I leave it up to the people that read them to make up their own mind. So I'm not exactly a bystander when it comes to warning others about the CCJW. But outside of that i see everything else as 'the world', and none of us can solve the 'world's' problems. Space Merchant sees things totally differently. That is his choice. His life and his situation is probably totally different to mine. Arauna has admitted to obeying the GB, so that is her choice. Whether she obeys blindly and does everything according to 'the book' is also her choice. Mr Harley is just a comedian and a writer looking for input for his next book, so cannot be taken seriously. I have yet to read a spiritual comment from him. Srecko seems to have a similar viewpoint to me, or in fact me to him. He asks intelligent question and gives good quotes, but he gets discredited for it all. JWI seems to be the most balanced, and he gives very good and strong answers. We must all remember that we are all different and i will quote the singer Seal :- Different kinds of people, with different kinds of lives, Walking toward the future, with different size strides.

Sarcasm does not hide FACTS. Not even a good try Tom.

Quote Arauna I obey the GB because I have chosen to do so.. Well it's nice of you to admit that you OBEY the GB. I'd rather obey God through Christ myself, and the Bible gives us all enough information to do so. . Quote @Arauna People just love to make rules about everything.. .it gives them a measure of control in their own lives and sometimes in other's lives. That's funny. Um, JWs cannot have beards. JWs have to wear a shirt and tie, and a jacket on the platform. Sisters are not allowed to wear trousers even if they are designed as ladies trousers. And many more rules. So i wonder who likes to make rules ? Oh yes the Leaders of the CCJW.

I do feel pity for @Arauna as she is so blinded by her love of the GB and the Org. Quote Arauna, " All aspects of this subject has been covered before in many pages and still you guys keep opening it up again and again (OCD-like) as if this is all you think about." BUT Arauna, that is what this topic is about, and it is about new information concerning the victims of CSA. Yes it is an ongoing situation whether in Australia, UK, America or elsewhere. It will continue to be an ongoing topic. It is not OCD as you pretend, but new information being added and then discussed and related to old information. Then every JW should have been allowed to tell the Police and Superior Authorities from the very beginning. There should not have been any secrecy, and JWs should never have been told to leave it with the Elders. JWs should have had the FREEDOM to chose who they told without the fear of being disfelowshipped. To change the rules now is shutting the stable door after the horse has gone missing. To little toooo late. Quote Arauna, "Yes, there are a lot of flaws.. but then..... so did Israel have flaws back in their day - and Jehovah still used them for his purpose." You have a love to misuse examples. The Israelites were born into that nation. They did not chose to be Israelites. JWs CHOSE to be JWs. Therefor their heart condition should be toward doing GOOD in order to serve GOD properly. The situation EARTHWIDE with Child Sexual Abuse in the CCJW proves that many JWs deliberately turn their back on God. Hundreds of Elders would have had first hand information regarding CSA, and they kept it hidden. Some of those Elders would have been and possibly still are Paedophiles. And you think God will use them ? @Space Merchant goes on about helping to save children from child sexual abuse. The JW organisation should announce to a congregation when there is a Paedophile in that congregation. The Elders should say the name of the paedophile so that everyone knows it. The paedophile should be reported to the Police or Superior Authorities, not kept hidden in the congregation. THAT would help keep children safe. The silly idea that Elders will know when a person is repentant is stupid. And some Elders are even given their position in the congregation back. And as I'm shunned by every JW in my area, how am I supposed to tell them what i know ? I have spoken to those that contact me by phone or email, but they do not believe me, and they should not be contacting me (according to man made rules) so they will not pass on the information I give them. These ones are not local but very doubtful they will use the info' i give them. SM calls me a bystander, Quite funny as that is a JW expression. Any JW that does not go out preaching is called a JW Bystander here in England. And it seems that SM expects me to go out and talk to complete strangers, even children, about CSA and Paedophiles. Um, i think I would get arrested or at least accused of something nasty. This is England and people are more unsociable or reserved, so you do not just go up and speak to young children that do not know you.

Repetitio est mater studiorum :))) 'repetition is the mother of studying'.

If the Elders don't shoot you for one thing, they will hang you for something else. Once they don't like a person then they mark them. Then it's only a matter of time before d/fed.

.@César Chávez Billy the Kid you talk so much rubbish. Quote :- That leads to an understanding. When did you decide Elders are lawyers, caretakers of peoples free will. When did the Watchtower decide, they are responsible for an individuals personal life. Spiritual life, YES!, But personal life, never! That "responsibility" belongs with each individual The GB of JW Org / CCJW decided they were in control of congregants lives when they made the rules of hiding paedophiles in the congregations, by telling the congregants NOT TO report CSA to the police or to the authorities. And the Elders decided to control people's personal lives by carrying out those orders. Hence some congregants were disfellowshipped for complaining about CSA, and some were disfellowshipped for going to the police. Of course the age old excuse used was that a person was 'causing a division in the congregation'.